[iknowexactly]

I read Trayvon had to climb over a fence to get into the gated community, if so it indicates he was aware he was trespassing, and ballistics claims Trayvon was shot from below. I think it means he was trespassing and was on top of the guy when they guy shot him.

Although I don't think someone should get shot for trespassing, If I was on the jury I would not convict the guy.

If someone catches you trespassing and confronts you, you don't get in his face, you say "Sorry, leaving now." unless you really want trouble.

Zimmerman should have listened to the cops when they said leave Trayvon alone, but unless the orders of the operator are legally binding he didn't commit a crime by continuing to follow him.

[Tex Pro]

(07-09-2013 04:31 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:

Hey, Mech, are you prepared in case shit gets real?

Lets say he gets off and there's some riots. Who is going to be targeted?

WTF is Zimmerman? Jew-rican? Where do you go with that? You can't really take it out on the whites in Sanford they're just a bunch of dumb rednecks.

I don't know. Everyone keeps calling Zimmerman "white." So, I suspect that if there are riots, then whites will be targeted.

That is why I said you should stock up on shotgun shells just in case you need to defend yourself.

[Katatonic]

(07-09-2013 04:31 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Quote:

Hey, Mech, are you prepared in case shit gets real?

Lets say he gets off and there's some riots. Who is going to be targeted?

WTF is Zimmerman? Jew-rican? Where do you go with that? You can't really take it out on the whites in Sanford they're just a bunch of dumb rednecks.

Rodney King got his ass beat by LAPD officers who were acquitted, and the Korean store owners took the brunt of the riots. I don't think they care what color their potential victims will be.

[Icepasian]

A) This case has absolutely nothing to do with race and only race-baiters(Al Sharpton comes to mind) and SWPLs bring it up.
B) Under Florida's law code, Zimmerman should go free although in my personal opinion, he should be charged with manslaughter and given a few years just so that this doesn't become a precedent for getting away with murder.

Just my two cents.

[Easy E]

This case seems like a pretty cut-and-dry case of self defense. I think a lot of people who hear about this case don't realize that you can easily get a concealed carry permit in Florida and that the self defense statues in Florida are pretty lenient.

[Gmac]

Don't care.

[Sherman]

I wonder how this is going to affect security of middle class housing in urban areas of America.

Zimm was a volunteer looking out for his community because there had been previous break ins in the neighborhood. Think of what the options are if you live in one of these communities. (1) Form a watch group and report suspicious people to the police. Result - the police get tired and stop responding. (2) Secure your doors with reinforced iron doors and put bars on the windows. Problem - it's unlikely the home owner's association would ever allow this. (3) Have a gun in your home. Problem - this is the worst solution. You never want to get to this point. It's unlikely you will have time to get your gun if you are surprised by your flimsy door being kicked in. Most people aren't physically or psychologically capable to respond in time. Once you are faced with a do or die fight situation, your chances of getting injured go up astronomically. Again, you don't want it to get this far.

Zimm was actually executing the best strategy - the only effective defense is a good offense - be visible in the community and make yourself known to intruders. But now, thanks to the liberal, leftist media, this can be the most costly option. Liberals don't like a man who stands straight and doesn't cower and hand over all his money. The criminal can now freely case any neighborhood eating skiddles to pass the time. The police don't have the resources to respond and at some point somebody won't be looking and then you take the opportunity. Zero cost for the criminal with huge potential rewards. If you are the criminal - you win.

It is clear now after seeing the detailed and overwhelming evidence of the trial, that Zimmerman is the victim of a political trial. It's also apparent that the original investigators and prosecutors were competent and made the right decision. The only reason he was tried was for political reasons - Al Sharpton - a well known liar in previous situations whipped up a mob and a libertard media made up a fictitious narrative about a rogue wannabe cop. All false.

I actually think Mexico is safer than America. Here, you can protect yourself with reinforced iron doors, bars on windows, barbed wire, gates, viscous dogs, and anything else you can think of.

Furthermore, the policia stop and search anyone they want and they pick up Trayvon thug types and throw them in the back of the pickup truck. Handcuffs aren't necessary - anyone who jumps out of the truck is shot.

The liberals who control the media love thugs and hate normal honest men. Women are sensitive to the direction the winds are blowing and know who the winners are. If you are a normal man in America - act submissive or go to jail. The liberals hate you and they have the power. In America, the thugs win. Maybe that's why you are here. Think about it.

[Dusty]

Obama Admin has been working behind the scenes fanning the flames of racial strife surrounding the Zimmerman case:

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/07/10/new...-protests/

[sucio44]

Trayvon thug types??? If he was considered a thug then I'm Darth Vader.

[speakeasy]

(07-09-2013 09:02 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

This case seems like a pretty cut-and-dry case of self defense. I think a lot of people who hear about this case don't realize that you can easily get a concealed carry permit in Florida and that the self defense statues in Florida are pretty lenient.

Well if you ever get into a fair one on one fist fight and your opponent upon losing the fight pulls out a gun and kills you, you might feel differently.

[Easy E]

(07-10-2013 04:55 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-09-2013 09:02 PM)Easy E Wrote:  

This case seems like a pretty cut-and-dry case of self defense. I think a lot of people who hear about this case don't realize that you can easily get a concealed carry permit in Florida and that the self defense statues in Florida are pretty lenient.

Well if you ever get into a fair one on one fist fight and your opponent upon losing the fight pulls out a gun and kills you, you might feel differently.

LOL! Fair one-on-one fight??? What kool-aid have you been drinking???

Trayvon attacked Zimmerman for asking him what he was doing in the neighborhood. If you go around attacking people, then don't expect good things to happen. Period. Plus, you can get a legal carry permit in FL as long as you are not a felon, so it is not like you have to be unarmed.

[Avarence]

Tons of reasonable doubt here.

[pozdnyshev]

(07-10-2013 02:03 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  

Trayvon thug types??? If he was considered a thug then I'm Darth Vader.

Trayvon was the self-styled "NO LIMITS NIGGA". Also see http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/23/justice/fl...an-defense

[Derpface200]

(07-10-2013 06:30 PM)pozdnyshev Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 02:03 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  

Trayvon thug types??? If he was considered a thug then I'm Darth Vader.

Trayvon was the self-styled "NO LIMITS NIGGA".

That's pretty weak yo. I had a more hardcore nickname for myself when I was a kid. nut maybe that's because I was into death metal.

Also, if Travyon Martin was really a no limits nigga, why doesn't he have a criminal record? Kids these days are all bark and no bite.

The real no limit nigga here is Zimmerman, apparently he beat the shit out of an cop in 2005 or something. Fuck da police?

[PhilE]

Did Zimmerman chase him after Trayvon ran (flight), once Zimmerman accosted him (unjustly) did Trayvon have Reasonable Suspicion to suspect this person is a harm to him to question him and not be an official law enforcement officer, so with reasonable suspicion of harm Trayvon does his other option (fight) in self defense claims here in Philly they go by the fight or flight rule and if there is any thread of ability to take flight (without a reasonable suspicion to expect harm from flight) and you don't take flight you're getting charged point blank period. So if you have to fight and expect that it could be fatal you have the right to preserve your life with excessive force.

Did you notice this was all from Trayvon perspective because self defense does not account for YOU chasing someone down, it does not account for YOU accosting someone.

You can NOT chase someone down in THE DARK, accost them and think they don't have a right to think of you as a threat, and if you happen to be getting your ass kicked as a result of this you cannot kill this person!

Self defense is not because you get a broken nose, it's not even if your head is getting bumped (not slammed evidence suggests that being slammed would of been much more SEVERE gashes that would of needed stitches maybe even staples not the cut that Zimmerman had)

Point being you CAN shoot someone because you was scared, you CAN shoot someone out of anger of loosing, and you CAN shoot someone because they LOOK suspicious. But in each of those instances you WILL go to jail

[pozdnyshev]

(07-10-2013 06:36 PM)Derpface200 Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 06:30 PM)pozdnyshev Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 02:03 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  

Trayvon thug types??? If he was considered a thug then I'm Darth Vader.

Trayvon was the self-styled "NO LIMITS NIGGA".

That's pretty weak yo. I had a more hardcore nickname for myself when I was a kid. nut maybe that's because I was into death metal.

Also, if Travyon Martin was really a no limits nigga, why doesn't he have a criminal record? Kids these days are all bark and no bite.

The real no limit nigga here is Zimmerman, apparently he beat the shit out of an cop in 2005 or something. Fuck da police?

If you'd bothered to follow the link I posted to CNN, Treyvon was apparently more than just "all bark". For example, there's this video of him refereeing a street fight.

Of course, we're not on the jury and I'm sure we're not getting all the info, and I'm certainly not here to defend Zimmerman. However, to say that calling Trevyon a thug is ridiculous is itself ridiculous.

[Tex Pro]

(07-10-2013 06:44 PM)PhilE Wrote:  

Did Zimmerman chase him after Trayvon ran (flight), once Zimmerman accosted him (unjustly) did Trayvon have Reasonable Suspicion to suspect this person is a harm to him to question him and not be an official law enforcement officer, so with reasonable suspicion of harm Trayvon does his other option (fight) in self defense claims here in Philly they go by the fight or flight rule and if there is any thread of ability to take flight (without a reasonable suspicion to expect harm from flight) and you don't take flight you're getting charged point blank period. So if you have to fight and expect that it could be fatal you have the right to preserve your life with excessive force.

Did you notice this was all from Trayvon perspective because self defense does not account for YOU chasing someone down, it does not account for YOU accosting someone.

You can NOT chase someone down in THE DARK, accost them and think they don't have a right to think of you as a threat, and if you happen to be getting your ass kicked as a result of this you cannot kill this person!

Self defense is not because you get a broken nose, it's not even if your head is getting bumped (not slammed evidence suggests that being slammed would of been much more SEVERE gashes that would of needed stitches maybe even staples not the cut that Zimmerman had)

Point being you CAN shoot someone because you was scared, you CAN shoot someone out of anger of loosing, and you CAN shoot someone because they LOOK suspicious. But in each of those instances you WILL go to jail

This is bs. He didn't run after Trayvon. Zimmerman merely went up to ask him what he was up to. That is not illegal.

Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman, and once on the ground he saw Zimmerman's gun, and Zimmerman had to shoot him or risk getting his gun taken away.

Pretty damn clear case of self-defense.

[speakeasy]

(07-10-2013 07:07 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 06:44 PM)PhilE Wrote:  

Did Zimmerman chase him after Trayvon ran (flight), once Zimmerman accosted him (unjustly) did Trayvon have Reasonable Suspicion to suspect this person is a harm to him to question him and not be an official law enforcement officer, so with reasonable suspicion of harm Trayvon does his other option (fight) in self defense claims here in Philly they go by the fight or flight rule and if there is any thread of ability to take flight (without a reasonable suspicion to expect harm from flight) and you don't take flight you're getting charged point blank period. So if you have to fight and expect that it could be fatal you have the right to preserve your life with excessive force.

Did you notice this was all from Trayvon perspective because self defense does not account for YOU chasing someone down, it does not account for YOU accosting someone.

You can NOT chase someone down in THE DARK, accost them and think they don't have a right to think of you as a threat, and if you happen to be getting your ass kicked as a result of this you cannot kill this person!

Self defense is not because you get a broken nose, it's not even if your head is getting bumped (not slammed evidence suggests that being slammed would of been much more SEVERE gashes that would of needed stitches maybe even staples not the cut that Zimmerman had)

Point being you CAN shoot someone because you was scared, you CAN shoot someone out of anger of loosing, and you CAN shoot someone because they LOOK suspicious. But in each of those instances you WILL go to jail

This is bs. He didn't run after Trayvon. Zimmerman merely went up to ask him what he was up to. That is not illegal.

Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman, and once on the ground he saw Zimmerman's gun, and Zimmerman had to shoot him or risk getting his gun taken away.

Pretty damn clear case of self-defense.

The testimony of the conversation with Trayvon's girlfriend shows that he was telling her that he was being followed by someone he was trying to evade. Trayvon clearly thought he was under threat. Keep in mind, this is Zimmerman the night of the incident, shaved head, goatee and normal clothes(notice his injuries don't look particularly severe, to say to least).



If he was coming up to me at night on the street aggressively questioning me without me having the slightest idea who he is, I might have assumed he was hostile as well.

Unfortunately we'll never know exactly what went down between the time the call with his girlfriend ended and the shooting since Zimmerman is the only surviving witness.

Zimmerman was told by the dispatchers to NOT confront him. The cops were already on their way. If he had just done that, nothing would've happened. But he had to go and play vigilante. If you also read the transcript, between Zimmerman and the dispatcher, Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole" that looks like he's "up to no good" and "on drugs". So that shows his aggressive intend right there. He'd already decided the kid was an asshole for the mere crime of walking down the street with a bag of skittles. After following him in the car which Trayvon notices, he then gets out of the car and starts following. How the hell do you think this all looks from Trayvon's perspective?

I highly doubt Zimmerman was getting his ass whooped bad enough to justify pumping a bullet into his chest. That's what this case comes down to. For that to be justified, it would have to be a life and death situation. Zimmerman probably just got caught up in the heat of the moment and did something stupid. While this is definitely not a 25-life scenario, he deserves some time for this.

[thegmanifesto]

Do you guys think he gained weight to make him seem less threatening in court?

[Tex Pro]

(07-10-2013 07:21 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 07:07 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 06:44 PM)PhilE Wrote:  

Did Zimmerman chase him after Trayvon ran (flight), once Zimmerman accosted him (unjustly) did Trayvon have Reasonable Suspicion to suspect this person is a harm to him to question him and not be an official law enforcement officer, so with reasonable suspicion of harm Trayvon does his other option (fight) in self defense claims here in Philly they go by the fight or flight rule and if there is any thread of ability to take flight (without a reasonable suspicion to expect harm from flight) and you don't take flight you're getting charged point blank period. So if you have to fight and expect that it could be fatal you have the right to preserve your life with excessive force.

Did you notice this was all from Trayvon perspective because self defense does not account for YOU chasing someone down, it does not account for YOU accosting someone.

You can NOT chase someone down in THE DARK, accost them and think they don't have a right to think of you as a threat, and if you happen to be getting your ass kicked as a result of this you cannot kill this person!

Self defense is not because you get a broken nose, it's not even if your head is getting bumped (not slammed evidence suggests that being slammed would of been much more SEVERE gashes that would of needed stitches maybe even staples not the cut that Zimmerman had)

Point being you CAN shoot someone because you was scared, you CAN shoot someone out of anger of loosing, and you CAN shoot someone because they LOOK suspicious. But in each of those instances you WILL go to jail

This is bs. He didn't run after Trayvon. Zimmerman merely went up to ask him what he was up to. That is not illegal.

Trayvon decided to attack Zimmerman, and once on the ground he saw Zimmerman's gun, and Zimmerman had to shoot him or risk getting his gun taken away.

Pretty damn clear case of self-defense.

The testimony of the conversation with Trayvon's girlfriend shows that he was telling her that he was being followed by someone he was trying to evade. Trayvon clearly thought he was under threat. Keep in mind, this is Zimmerman the night of the incident, shaved head, goatee and normal clothes(notice his injuries don't look particularly severe, to say to least).



If he was coming up to me at night on the street aggressively questioning me without me having the slightest idea who he is, I might have assumed he was hostile as well.

Unfortunately we'll never know exactly what went down between the time the call with his girlfriend ended and the shooting since Zimmerman is the only surviving witness.

Zimmerman was told by the dispatchers to NOT confront him. The cops were already on their way. If he had just done that, nothing would've happened. But he had to go and play vigilante. If you also read the transcript, between Zimmerman and the dispatcher, Zimmerman called Trayvon an "asshole" that looks like he's "up to no good" and "on drugs". So that shows his aggressive intend right there. He'd already decided the kid was an asshole for the mere crime of walking down the street with a bag of skittles. After following him in the car which Trayvon notices, he then gets out of the car and starts following. How the hell do you think this all looks from Trayvon's perspective?

I highly doubt Zimmerman was getting his ass whooped bad enough to justify pumping a bullet into his chest. That's what this case comes down to. For that to be justified, it would have to be a life and death situation. Zimmerman probably just got caught up in the heat of the moment and did something stupid. While this is definitely not a 25-life scenario, he deserves some time for this.

Again, nothing illegal with going up to somebody and asking them a question. Also, that photo is after he was cleaned up. Look at a photo before all the blood was cleaned up.

Also, on this back, Zimmerman's gun would have been visible since his shirt came up.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. In that case, he had to shoot Trayvon. Justifiable homicide.

So, it looks like a case of self-defense and Zimmerman doesn't deserve to serve any time.

[speakeasy]

(07-10-2013 07:27 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Again, nothing illegal with going up to somebody and asking them a question.

I never said it was illegal to ask a question. You are also presenting a very sanitized version of what happened. If a gang member was following you in the car at night, and then got out the car and started approaching you on foot and then said, "where you from?" In L.A. anyway, that means you are probably about to either get your ass beat or get shot. It's not "just a question", context is everything.

Quote:

Also, that photo is after he was cleaned up. Look at a photo before all the blood was cleaned up.

I'm not seeing any gashes that would indicate a life-threatening ass -whooping.

Quote:

Also, on this back, Zimmerman's gun would have been visible since his shirt came up.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. In that case, he had to shoot Trayvon. Justifiable homicide.

...so he says. Unfortunately he killed the only other witness to the incident. Forensic analysis shows no evidence that Martin touched his gun: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19...97356.html

[Tex Pro]

(07-10-2013 07:34 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 07:27 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Again, nothing illegal with going up to somebody and asking them a question.

I never said it was illegal to ask a question. You are also presenting a very sanitized version of what happened. If a gang member was following you in the car at night, and then got out the car and started approaching you on foot and then said, "where you from?" In L.A. anyway, that means you are probably about to either get your ass beat or get shot. It's not "just a question", context is everything.

Quote:

Also, that photo is after he was cleaned up. Look at a photo before all the blood was cleaned up.

I'm not seeing any gashes that would indicate a life-threatening ass -whooping.

Quote:

Also, on this back, Zimmerman's gun would have been visible since his shirt came up.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. In that case, he had to shoot Trayvon. Justifiable homicide.

...so he says. Unfortunately he killed the only other witness to the incident. Forensic analysis shows no evidence that Martin touched his gun: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19...97356.html

If Trayvon would have gotten a hold of the gun, Zimmerman would be the one dead. Zimmerman says Trayvon went for the gun, so he pulled it out of the holster and fired.

Again, pretty clear case of self-defense.

In fact, the cops that showed up at the scene agreed that it was self-defense and it was only due to the political outrage that there is even a trial.

[Timoteo]

Well...Zimmerman didn't have the right to stop Martin and ask him anything. He isn't a peace officer, and was instructed by law enforcement to leave him alone. Martin didn't have to submit to being detained and questioned by someone that isn't a cop. I don't understand how it's so out of the realm of imagination that Martin himself felt threatened, and seeing the gun (on a guy that isn't a cop) made him all the more fearful for his life. Maybe he felt like he had to go for the gun before Zimmerman did. If you're saying that Zimmerman did nothing wrong, and basically had the right to stop anyone he wanted, then you are saying that it's cool for any black male to be confronted by anyone in anyplace other than his own neighborhood, and that it's justifiable to kill him if he objects.

[Tex Pro]

(07-10-2013 07:38 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

Well...Zimmerman didn't have the right to stop Martin and ask him anything. He isn't a peace officer, and was instructed by law enforcement to leave him alone. Martin didn't have to submit to being detained and questioned by someone that isn't a cop. I don't understand how it's so out of the realm of imagination that Martin himself felt threatened, and seeing the gun (on a guy that isn't a cop) made him all the more fearful for his life. Maybe he felt like he had to go for the gun before Zimmerman did. If you're saying that Zimmerman did nothing wrong, and basically had the right to stop anyone he wanted, then you are saying that it's cool for any black male to be confronted by anyone in anyplace other than his own neighborhood, and that it's justifiable to kill him if he objects.

BS.

He walked up to Trayvon and it was Trayvon that decided to escalate the situation. Trayvon didn't have to pop off on him. Trayvon escalated the events of that night. Nothing Zimmerman did was illegal.

[speakeasy]

(07-10-2013 07:37 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 07:34 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-10-2013 07:27 PM)The Texas Prophet Wrote:  

Again, nothing illegal with going up to somebody and asking them a question.

I never said it was illegal to ask a question. You are also presenting a very sanitized version of what happened. If a gang member was following you in the car at night, and then got out the car and started approaching you on foot and then said, "where you from?" In L.A. anyway, that means you are probably about to either get your ass beat or get shot. It's not "just a question", context is everything.

Quote:

Also, that photo is after he was cleaned up. Look at a photo before all the blood was cleaned up.

I'm not seeing any gashes that would indicate a life-threatening ass -whooping.

Quote:

Also, on this back, Zimmerman's gun would have been visible since his shirt came up.

Zimmerman claims that Trayvon saw the gun and went for it. In that case, he had to shoot Trayvon. Justifiable homicide.

...so he says. Unfortunately he killed the only other witness to the incident. Forensic analysis shows no evidence that Martin touched his gun: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19...97356.html

If Trayvon would have gotten a hold of the gun, Zimmerman would be the one dead. Zimmerman says Trayvon went for the gun, so he pulled it out of the holster and fired.

Again, pretty clear case of self-defense.

Zimmerman's team has presented no evidence of this. Given that they were grappling, if Martin saw the gun and went for it, it's very likely that he would've been at least a fingerprint.

Quote:

In fact, the cops that showed up at the scene agreed that it was self-defense and it was only the political outrage that there is even a trial.

How could cops that just showed up come to such a conclusion? Did they review all the transcripts and witness testimony? Did they conduct forensic tests on the spot and draw that conclusion? No. And it wasn't their job to jump to hasty conclusions. But cops aren't known to be the smartest people in law enforcement. The smart ones become investigators.