[dark_g]

(05-10-2016 12:29 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

Not a baseball fan, but I happened past a TV yesterday showing the Yankees game.

Both teams were wearing bubble-gum pink uniforms.

I don't know what the players thought about it, but it looked pretty emasculating to me. Is this pinkwashing crap normal now in baseball as well as football?

Pink is the color for breast cancer awareness.

[Alsos]

(05-10-2016 06:51 PM)dark_g Wrote:  

(05-10-2016 12:29 AM)Alsos Wrote:  

Not a baseball fan, but I happened past a TV yesterday showing the Yankees game.

Both teams were wearing bubble-gum pink uniforms.

I don't know what the players thought about it, but it looked pretty emasculating to me. Is this pinkwashing crap normal now in baseball as well as football?

Pink is the color for breast cancer awareness.

Yes, of course. But it struck me as particularly emasculating in this instance.

[texas]

Fuck yeah Odor!! Finally some good news for Venezuela. And he gets him with the glove after for good measure. Roosh, your doppleganger just got it. This is what Trump vs. Hillary is gonna look like next year.

[Chunnel]

(05-15-2016 09:13 PM)texas Wrote:  

Fuck yeah Odor!! Finally some good news for Venezuela. And he gets him with the glove after for good measure. Roosh, your doppleganger just got it. This is what Trump vs. Hillary is gonna look like next year.

This may beat the Ryan Ventura headlock classic. Solid contact!

[texas]

Yeah I thought that too at first. I was at the Ryan-Ventura haymaker that day and it was bonkers. Today must have had a similar feel. Watch the slow-mo when his helmet and glasses go both ways...haha. Odor is the gift that keeps on giving.

[Chunnel]

Prospect update.

Julio Urias is getting the nod for the Dodgers tomorrow night at Citi Field against the Mets. He's a consensus top 5 prospect, NOT even 20 years old, and he's got a big 'ol orbital mass over his left eye... (although he's had cosmetic surgery recently)



This kid looks like the real deal. Easy velocity, good secondary stuff, and a delivery that doesn't scream "gets killed by righties." He'll become the youngest player in the Majors by 2 years, Nomar Mazara (2nd youngest just turned 21), whereas Urias won't even turn 20 till August!

7:00 ET tomorrow if you wanna tune in.

[texas]

Just reminiscing...Nolan Ryan was 46 and Robin Ventura was 26. Study Nolan's confidence and body language as Ventura charges and Ryan doesn't stay put but walks towards him, non-verbally saying "come and take it."

[Chunnel]

People often say you shouldn't look at the standings until Memorial Day. Well its after Memorial Day, so some observations.

The Cubs are really good. They won't keep this pace up, as Zobrist, Fowler, Lackey, and Hammel have all been playing way beyond levels they ever had, especially at their ages (except Fowler). I can see them winning 102 games.

Mets, Nationals, Giants, and Pirates seem to be Tier 2 of the National League. All 4 teams pitch well Mets > Nats > Giants > Pirates rotation wise. Injuries will be key to see who can finish second in the league. Kang coming back for Pittsburgh has been big, while Polanco is starting to fill out and become an absolute stud.

Its crazy hearing more about the Mets this year than the Yankees. Whodve ever though Los Yanquis would ever play second fiddle in the Big Apple?? Their staff though! If Harvey's start yesterday is a sign of things to come, look out.

Biggest surprise: Dodgers. They're elite when Kershaw pitches, below average when he doesn't. They really need Kazmir to step up, and one of McCarthy or Ryu once off the DL. They'll probably also be the first team to be active on the trade market for another arm. Oakland looks destined to be a seller, so either Sonny Gray or Rich Hill to Chavez Ravine??

American League really seems to be a crapshoot. Seattle and Boston look good. I hate saying this but as an Oriole fan, they'll continue to fall. Running out Mike Wright, Tyler Wilson, and Ubaldo Jimenez for 60% of your starts is not a good way to beat the odds.

Cleveland and Texas are real interesting to me. If Corrasco comes back healthy and in good form, Cleveland should be the favorite for the Central. Plus I'm not afraid to say it, Francisco Lindor IS BETTER than Carlos Corrasco.
No one seems to talk about Texas, but they seem to have figured it out. Mazara has been huge (could regress), but Desmond slotting in center and playing well has been an awesome 1 year investment for them. Darvish looked good in his first start back from Tommy John, so he and Hamels could be the best 1-2 punch in the AL behind Cleveland's trio.

Some other random observations. Just when everyone is ready to give the league over to young studs, we all fall back to earth and remember that they are indeed still rookies. With the recent ascensions of Trout, Harper, Machado, Correa, Lindor, and Bryant, we've got comfortable assuming top prospects will come up and fit right into lineups.

However this year has proved otherwise. Besides, Seager and Mazara; rookies Byron Buxton, Jose Berrios, Sean Manaea, and Julio Urias (all top 50 prospects) have shown they need more seasoning at AAA. Jon Gray is a tweener. Great peripherals, but the results on the field aren't really there. His ERA is nearly 6.00. (I'm sure Colorado would love him to start all his games on the road).

I'm convinced that going forward relief pitchers will have to have 2 plus pitches going forward. Maybe its selection bias, but it seems that I've seen a lot more blown games late now. If its true, I would attribute it to batters finally catching up to the 97+ every reliever can throw now. Even 4 years ago, it was a rare treat to watch a relief pitcher light up the radar gun at 99MPH. Now each team has at least two guys that can hit 97 consistently. So as batters get used to this extra velocity, their timing gets better, and they square up more heaters as the comfort level increases.

Currently, league ERA is 4.04 last year it was 3.95; even as teams being to lean more heavily on their bullpens. Therefore relievers must find different ways to get hitters out who are sitting dead red on 97 MPH cheese. The elite relievers like Wade Davis, Andrew Miller, Dellin Betances, Will Harris, Darren O'Day all have two pitches with which they can get a strikeout. Only few relievers have such a nasty pitch pitch (Zach Britton sinker, Kenley Jansen cutter) that they can keep going back to it (however, only because it has ridiculous movement). Hell, even Aroldis Chapman who sits 100 MPH with his fastball (wow!) even throws a slider 14% of the time to keep hitters honest.

The days of Kimbrel throwing gas by every hitter are gone.

The dog days of summer should be fun this year. Besides the Cubs, there are no other teams that have shown indications of running away with a division, so there should be good action up and through September. Baseball is a war not a battle, unless you're the Braves!

[dark_g]

Nice write up Chun.

Buxton is due back up tonight. He was tearing it up in AAA. Let's hope 3rd time is a charm.

[Chunnel]

(05-31-2016 05:19 PM)dark_g Wrote:  

Nice write up Chun.

Buxton is due back up tonight. He was tearing it up in AAA. Let's hope 3rd time is a charm.

Didn't know he was coming back, I'll have to tune in. I don't know why (I have no rooting interest in the Twins) but, I really want him to succeed.

On another note, watching Pittsburgh vs. Miami now. Fantastic pitching match up Cole vs. Fernandez, and Marlins Park is EMPTY. Such a pathetic fan base. The face of your franchise, one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball, and you still don't come out to support your team?!? They can't use the old stadium excuse now, even though Marlin's Park looks like a shit-hole (haven't been personally to confirm my inkling).

[Chunnel]

Part rant/part analysis.

I've been getting royally screwed in my baseball capping recently. I've gone 1-10 the past few days, and have been trying to assuage my shattered confidence with some analysis to back up some trends I have noticed recently. As I mentioned in a previous post, bullpen numbers seem to have been up this year. I thought it could have been selectivity bias, cause every time I turn around, it seems a bullpen is blowing a lead. Just tonight, San Francisco, Cleveland, and Houston all blew leads (although the ladder two still won in extras.) Anaheim blew a 7 run lead yesterday, and fucking Boston blew 2 unique leads on Saturday, one even being a 4 run advantage in the 8th inning.

So to see if my inkling about struggling bullpens is true I ran some numbers. I compared 2015 bullpen results to current 2016 bullpen results.

Important numbers:
Earned run average ERA
2015: 3.71
2016: 3.86 ----- that's a significant jump, so it is true that bullpens are giving up more runs than last year... Now its time to figure out why

Innings Pitched per game
2015: 3.20
2016: 3.20 ----- identical, so we can rule out overuse as a reason

Walks/9 innings
2015: 3.29
2016: 3.42 ----- an increase, but not enough to make a statistical difference. On Base Percentage (OBP) Against only increased to .316 from .315

Strikeouts/9 innings
2015: 8.43
2016: 8.67 ----- again an increase, if anything this should argue that bullpens are becoming more effective but that is not the case

Batting Average against
2015: .245
2016: .243 ----- a stat (albeit not that useful) that bullpens should be experiencing more success!

So what is going on? Everything so far has indicated that bullpens are performing equal or perhaps even a bit better than last year. Than I found the answer

Slugging percentage against
2015: .386
2016: .397 ---- an 11 point increase in slugging percentage which included an increase of 8% in home runs given up per game(22% increase in the National League) is the culprit. The feast or famine approach that has caused the uptick in strikeouts has also caused a more significant uptick in slugging which results from more homeruns, and yields a higher bullpen ERA.

Some fortunately for my sanity I wasn't just blowing steam out of my ass.
This all goes back to my feeling that relievers going forward will need to have 2 plus pitches that can induce strikeouts. As these numbers prove, relievers can't get by with 98MPH gas like they had been able to in the past few years. Hitters have adjusted, and are producing results. Now it is the pitcher's chance to make their next move in this never ending game of chess between batters and pitchers.

So what does this all mean? Watch out for teams with elite bullpens and a manager that knows how to use them. Buck Showalter (Orioles) and Ned Yost (Royals) have figured this out. Scott Servais (Mariners) seems to have it down as well. John Gibbons (Toronto) doesn't seem to have a clue, nor does Terry Collins (Mets) at times. Also loaded pens like the Yankees, and Nationals with a neutral manager will not fuck up leads late either. Watch, in 3 years radar gun velocity in the triple digits will lose its sex appeal, and managers will grovel over the guys that can paint the corners and spin a wicked slider. Darren O'Day and Will Harris are already two of the most successful relievers in the MLB and neither can hit 93 MPH on the gun.

All this can be attributed to the wonderful chess match that baseball is, trying to figure out the next inefficiency in the game, and how to exploit it for as long as possible before the rest of the league catches up. The subtleties like this, and the plethora of others are why it is in my opinion the greatest American sport, perhaps best sport period?? (Yes I went there!)

[Chunnel]

Another solid bench clearing tonight. Ventura throwing at Machado earlier in the game. Machado admired a flyball that got held up by the wind. Jawing ensued, then this.

Nowhere near Odor vs. Bautista level, but Machado got a good right straight in. Ventura would've fallen if Machado didn't hold him up, then proceeded to be taken down.

I give it a 7/10 bench clearing.

[RoastBeefCurtains4Me]

(05-31-2016 09:31 AM)texas Wrote:  

Just reminiscing...Nolan Ryan was 46 and Robin Ventura was 26. Study Nolan's confidence and body language as Ventura charges and Ryan doesn't stay put but walks towards him, non-verbally saying "come and take it."

I always thought it was stupid how Ventura tucks his shoulder and looks like he's diving into Nolan's headlock on purpose. What kind of attack is that? He doesn't through a punch, and it doesn't look like an attempt to tackle Nolan and take him to the ground. It looks like he's purposely taking the position for Nolan to start punching him in the head.

[Chunnel]

The MLB draft is this Thursday. It is a very different beast from the more familiar NFL and NBA drafts, in which front offices must pull out their best economical game theory to get the players they want for the prices they want.

Differences between the MLB draft and the NBA/NFL drafts.

-Teams cannot trade draft picks. The only picks that can be traded are competitive balance picks. Teams earn a competitive balance pick by either:
1. Failing to sign their 1st, 2nd, or 3rd draft pick from the previous year. (additional picks for the following year are attached to the end of the round in which the team failed to sign said player)
2. Losing a player to free agency that had a qualifying offer attached to him. The player who signed the free agent loses their first round pick, and it is given to the team that lost said player. For example: Yovani Gallardo was signed by Baltimore in the off season, so the Texas Rangers gets an additional pick at the end of the first round. Baltimore lost its first round pick, although since it lost Wei-Yin Chen to the same qualifying offer clause, they picked up a draft slot at the end of the first round.

-Teams have a finite sum of money they are allowed to use in the draft. This is a competitive balance issue, so teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can't throw $4 and $5 million dollar signing bonuses at high school players on the fence between turning pro or going to college. This year the Cincinnati Reds have the highest pool of money at $13.9 million, whereas the Cubs only have $2.2 million to spend. Teams can pick up additional slot money by trading for the competitive balance picks mentioned above.

For example, a couple weeks ago the Braves traded for the Oriole's Brian Matusz and their 3rd round competitive balance pick. The Orioles did it as a $3.5 mil salary dump, and the Braves basically picked up the $3.5 mil for the extra slot money to overpay for a player in the 1st or 2nd round they may not have had the funds to sign before.

Generally the top pick in the draft signs for between $6 and $8 million, and depending on how a team wants to use its draft picks, it may underpay for a player not touted as highly as the place he was picked in order to save money for a pick later. Ex. 2012 the Astros picked Carlos Correa first and signed him for $4.8 million. The money saved was enough to sign Lance McCullers with the 41st pick. Both are now key pieces on the Major League squad. The #2 pick in 2012, Byron Buxton, signed for $6 million, making it evident that Carlos Correa was definitely an underslot draft signing to save money for later. The Braves may try the same thing this year with the 3rd pick.

-High school players are eligible for the draft. There's extreme risk in High School players, but unbelievable upside if you hit the jackpot. Bryce Harper, Mike Trout, Clayton Kershaw, Manny Machado, Noah Syndergaard, Carlos Correa, and Anthony Rizzo (plus countless others) were all drafted out of high school. Therefore a special high-school player can give back unbelievable value (especially with how much teams place a premium on youth. (Also players from Puerto Rico are draft eligible: Carlos Correa, Francisco Lindor, and Jose Berrios are some of the premium names that have come out of the PR in the last 4 years.)


Top talents in this draft:

There is not a bonafide #1 this year ala Bryce Harper or Stephen Strasburg. 5 names have been thrown around to go #1, and the Phillies seem to be learning towards Mickey Moniak, a high school bat right now.

Top 5 guys on talent (no particular order)

Mickey Moniak- High School outfielder from California. Great contact, good defense, and instincts. People think as his body matures he will develop more power. MLB Comparison: Christian Yelich

Riley Pint- High School flamethrower from Kansas. Overwhelms with heat, hits 100+ frequently, and has a good curveball. Extremely wild from the video I've seen. However coaches can work wonders with kids and control once moving away from inept high school and American Legion coaches. Comp: I see a lot of Kevin Gausman (without the good change up)

Jason Groome- High School lefty from New Jersey. Was previously the consensus #1, but character issues and makeup have come up recently, making some teams weary. Easy delivery with mid 90s heat, and good curve ball. Signability is becoming an issue (he's committed to Vanderbilt), so a team may have to wow him to sign him. Comp: Cole Hamels

Kyle Lewis- College outfielder from Mercer. Legit power and contact bat that destroyed college competition. Some scouts are concerned about his competition at Mercer, but he hit in the Cape Cod League (which included the country's best college players), and showed extreme patience this year being leaps and bounds better than every one else on his team. Good speed and defense, although most think he will eventually shift to right field, as he is equipped with the arm to make him a plus outfielder in right. Comp: Justin Upton w/ a better arm

AJ Puk- College lefty from Florida. Many saw him as the safest #1, as he was the best starter from one of the best college teams, competing in the best conference in the country (SEC). However some make-up issues have arisen, and scouts are concerned about his bad body (my all-time favorite scouting term). Definitely the highest floor lowest ceiling of the top 5 guys here. Comp: Carlos Rodon


Also important to note: Top 10 talent from PR Delvin Perez has just failed a drug test. Whether its performing enhancing or recreational is unknown. He is still draft eligible, its just a matter of how far he falls. A team could steal him in the 20s if they believe the makeup is legit, and the failed drug test is just a blip on the radar.

For me, as a huge fan of prospects, the MLB draft is awesome. Figuring out which direction teams try to take their drafts, how they use their money, and play off other teams is a fantastic lesson in economics, game theory, and psychology. Baseball America has the best draft coverage around. Even though they have a paywall for some of their content, there is still good stuff available for free.

[Sean]

There is rarely a player of the ilk of Harper or Strasburg variety. We got spoiled of four years of Correa, Cole, Harper and Strasburg. You have to go back to Price and then to Mauer to see transcendent talent available and certain #1s. Of course, some of that was because of the signability issues. That's how you get Hochevar and Bullington and Matt Bush #1.

As far as this year, after reading/listening to "The Arm" by Jeff Passan, give me Riley Pint this year. Guy who didn't bend his routines to Perfect Game, plays other sports, seems to have his head screwed on properly.

[Chunnel]

Indy baseball has hopped on board to our ever increasing world of delusion. Sonoma Stompers have signed 2 women, not as a publicity stunt for gate receipts, but as fulltime players.

Link

I've got nothing really to add, except trying to mask the pure publicity of the stunt, by claiming the women will get consistent playing time, is laughable. Wouldn't expect anything less than from the franchise that championed the first openly gay player in Indy ball, breaking backs to give him a gay pride day at the stadium.

There's a book about how writers Sam Miller and Ben Lindbergh (Effectively Wild Podcast) come in and field the Stompers off sabermetric principles. i've got the book on my kindle, but have not read it yet. I may not even do that now with all the SJW chest bumping associated around this piddling franchise in California wine country. They do a good podcast, becuase they keep politics and socials views out of it, but this book may just be one giant head shaking fest for all I know.

Any way, good luck to the Stompers purposely playing with a handicap on the field and in the club house in the name of Social Justice and Political Correctness.

quick add: Just found the perfect game scouting profile for the 17 year old Kelsie Whitmore. 5'6" 145 pounds (smaller than every player in the bigs, except Jose Altuve, haha). Fastball clocked at 71 MPH. Fuck, I threw that hard when I was 14 goddamnit. What a fucking farce.

Perfect Game profile

[Chunnel]

ESPN is coming out with a bunch of top baseball all-time lists by position, and a top 100 overall. Without a doubt in true ESPN fashion, their lists suck: they are inconsistent in their methodology, very quick to judge against baseball pre-1940, and are horrifically subjective. (They have Bryce Harper ranked as the 85th greatest player of all time!! wtf)

In the spirit of good discussion, and more reasoned lists than ESPN can come out with, let's do our own top 10 greatest players of all time. I'm going to break mine down by pitchers and batters.

My Top 10 batters of All Time:
10. Mickey Mantle (.298, 536 HR, 1509 RBI, 172 OPS+)
9. Hank Aaron (.305, 755, 2297, 155)
8. Stan Musial (.331, 475, 1951, 159)
7. Honus Wagner (.328, 101, 1732, 151)
6. Ty Cobb (.366, 117, 1933, 168)

5. Alex Rodriguez (.295, 696, 2084, 141)
4. Ted Williams (.344, 521, 1839, 190)
3. Willie Mays (.302, 660, 1903, 156)
2. Barry Bonds (.298, 762, 1996, 182)
1. Babe Ruth (.342, 714, 2213, 206)

Eddie Collins just missed my list. (In my opinion, he is the most underrated player of all-time.)

My Top 10 pitchers of All Time:
10. Rube Waddell (193-143, 135 ERA+, 2316 SO, 2.88 SO/W)
9. Tom Seaver (311-205, 127, 3640, 2.62)
8. Greg Maddux (355-227, 132, 3371, 3.37)
7. CY Young (511-316, 138, 2803, 2.30)
6. Pedro Martinez (219-100, 154, 3154, 4.15)

5. Pete Alexander (373-208, 135, 2198, 2.31)
4. Christy Mathewson (373-188, 135, 2507, 2.96)
3. Randy Johnson (303-166, 135, 4875, 3.26)
2. Rogers Clemens (354-184, 143, 4672, 2.96)
1. Walter Johnson (417-279, 147, 3509, 2.57)

I can be swayed by good arguments. But I will fight to the death on my top 3 batters of all time.

What do you guys all got?

[dark_g]

I love your number 2 hitting pick, however I do think Nolan Ryan should be on your top 10 pitcher's list.

[Chunnel]

Probably the most bizarre story I've ever run across.

Link

I was at US Cellular Saturday, excited to see Sale battle the big bats of Detroit. But then they removed his name from the starting lineup on the scoreboard, and all the rumors started. People started swirling around trade rumors, illnesses, etc. Then during the first rain delay, I checked on my phone, and saw it was a non-physical altercation with the Front Office.

Then my dad heard around the 6th inning (from the hot dog guy nonetheless) that he went around slashing the throwback jerseys like Edward Scissorhands. Everyone around us started howling when it was discovered why he wasn't pitching. In retrospect, being able to say I was at the Chris Sale gone postal game is much better than actually seeing him pitch live.

[Chunnel]

(07-21-2016 04:27 PM)dark_g Wrote:  

I love your number 2 hitting pick, however I do think Nolan Ryan should be on your top 10 pitcher's list.

For me, Ryan's wildness holds him back from the Top 10. Put up a career 4.7 BB/9 rate, and a 1.24 WHIP. The WHIP is good, but not elite, and I don't think the strikeouts he garnered make up enough to hoist him into the top 10.

However, his durability in the modern era is unreal, plus the Ks and the fear he put into opponents. Its tough to fault him for a lack of postseason pedigree, when the teams he played on generally sucked. Personally, I have no problem putting him top 15, but I don't think I could put him over Lefty Grove, Bob Gibson, and the others in the top 10.

Although I would put prime Nolan Ryan in my top 5 I want on my side in a bar fight.

[TravelerKai]

(07-24-2016 10:22 PM)Chunnel Wrote:  

Probably the most bizarre story I've ever run across.

Link

I was at US Cellular Saturday, excited to see Sale battle the big bats of Detroit. But then they removed his name from the starting lineup on the scoreboard, and all the rumors started. People started swirling around trade rumors, illnesses, etc. Then during the first rain delay, I checked on my phone, and saw it was a non-physical altercation with the Front Office.

Then my dad heard around the 6th inning (from the hot dog guy nonetheless) that he went around slashing the throwback jerseys like Edward Scissorhands. Everyone around us started howling when it was discovered why he wasn't pitching. In retrospect, being able to say I was at the Chris Sale gone postal game is much better than actually seeing him pitch live.

Where do you think Sale would go next? I was looking at bleacher report and they seem to think teams like Boston, Houston, Dodgers, Padres, or the Rangers could get him in a trade.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26539...ster-trade

I disagree with the Houston one they have. We wouldn't give up Lance McCullers for Sale. We need more good pitchers, not swap out a good one for another good one. As much as I would love to have Sale, I think that is too much to give up. Considering his temper and competitive drive, they should entertain a cash trade to somewhere he would actually want to play.

[Mentavious]

(07-21-2016 01:14 PM)Chunnel Wrote:  

ESPN is coming out with a bunch of top baseball all-time lists by position, and a top 100 overall. Without a doubt in true ESPN fashion, their lists suck: they are inconsistent in their methodology, very quick to judge against baseball pre-1940, and are horrifically subjective. (They have Bryce Harper ranked as the 85th greatest player of all time!! wtf)

In the spirit of good discussion, and more reasoned lists than ESPN can come out with, let's do our own top 10 greatest players of all time. I'm going to break mine down by pitchers and batters.

My Top 10 batters of All Time:
10. Mickey Mantle (.298, 536 HR, 1509 RBI, 172 OPS+)
9. Hank Aaron (.305, 755, 2297, 155)
8. Stan Musial (.331, 475, 1951, 159)
7. Honus Wagner (.328, 101, 1732, 151)
6. Ty Cobb (.366, 117, 1933, 168)

5. Alex Rodriguez (.295, 696, 2084, 141)
4. Ted Williams (.344, 521, 1839, 190)
3. Willie Mays (.302, 660, 1903, 156)
2. Barry Bonds (.298, 762, 1996, 182)
1. Babe Ruth (.342, 714, 2213, 206)

Eddie Collins just missed my list. (In my opinion, he is the most underrated player of all-time.)

My Top 10 pitchers of All Time:
10. Rube Waddell (193-143, 135 ERA+, 2316 SO, 2.88 SO/W)
9. Tom Seaver (311-205, 127, 3640, 2.62)
8. Greg Maddux (355-227, 132, 3371, 3.37)
7. CY Young (511-316, 138, 2803, 2.30)
6. Pedro Martinez (219-100, 154, 3154, 4.15)

5. Pete Alexander (373-208, 135, 2198, 2.31)
4. Christy Mathewson (373-188, 135, 2507, 2.96)
3. Randy Johnson (303-166, 135, 4875, 3.26)
2. Rogers Clemens (354-184, 143, 4672, 2.96)
1. Walter Johnson (417-279, 147, 3509, 2.57)

I can be swayed by good arguments. But I will fight to the death on my top 3 batters of all time.

What do you guys all got?

Top 10 baseball players of all-time?

[Dantes]

(07-21-2016 01:14 PM)Chunnel Wrote:  

ESPN is coming out with a bunch of top baseball all-time lists by position, and a top 100 overall. Without a doubt in true ESPN fashion, their lists suck: they are inconsistent in their methodology, very quick to judge against baseball pre-1940, and are horrifically subjective. (They have Bryce Harper ranked as the 85th greatest player of all time!! wtf)

In the spirit of good discussion, and more reasoned lists than ESPN can come out with, let's do our own top 10 greatest players of all time. I'm going to break mine down by pitchers and batters.

My Top 10 batters of All Time:
10. Mickey Mantle (.298, 536 HR, 1509 RBI, 172 OPS+)
9. Hank Aaron (.305, 755, 2297, 155)
8. Stan Musial (.331, 475, 1951, 159)
7. Honus Wagner (.328, 101, 1732, 151)
6. Ty Cobb (.366, 117, 1933, 168)

5. Alex Rodriguez (.295, 696, 2084, 141)
4. Ted Williams (.344, 521, 1839, 190)
3. Willie Mays (.302, 660, 1903, 156)
2. Barry Bonds (.298, 762, 1996, 182)
1. Babe Ruth (.342, 714, 2213, 206)

Eddie Collins just missed my list. (In my opinion, he is the most underrated player of all-time.)

My Top 10 pitchers of All Time:
10. Rube Waddell (193-143, 135 ERA+, 2316 SO, 2.88 SO/W)
9. Tom Seaver (311-205, 127, 3640, 2.62)
8. Greg Maddux (355-227, 132, 3371, 3.37)
7. CY Young (511-316, 138, 2803, 2.30)
6. Pedro Martinez (219-100, 154, 3154, 4.15)

5. Pete Alexander (373-208, 135, 2198, 2.31)
4. Christy Mathewson (373-188, 135, 2507, 2.96)
3. Randy Johnson (303-166, 135, 4875, 3.26)
2. Rogers Clemens (354-184, 143, 4672, 2.96)
1. Walter Johnson (417-279, 147, 3509, 2.57)

I can be swayed by good arguments. But I will fight to the death on my top 3 batters of all time.

What do you guys all got?

Good list

Pitchers: Tough to leave Koufax and Gibson off the list.

Hitters: I would have Gehrig over Wagner

[Chunnel]

(07-26-2016 10:02 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  

(07-24-2016 10:22 PM)Chunnel Wrote:  

Probably the most bizarre story I've ever run across.

Link

I was at US Cellular Saturday, excited to see Sale battle the big bats of Detroit. But then they removed his name from the starting lineup on the scoreboard, and all the rumors started. People started swirling around trade rumors, illnesses, etc. Then during the first rain delay, I checked on my phone, and saw it was a non-physical altercation with the Front Office.

Then my dad heard around the 6th inning (from the hot dog guy nonetheless) that he went around slashing the throwback jerseys like Edward Scissorhands. Everyone around us started howling when it was discovered why he wasn't pitching. In retrospect, being able to say I was at the Chris Sale gone postal game is much better than actually seeing him pitch live.

Where do you think Sale would go next? I was looking at bleacher report and they seem to think teams like Boston, Houston, Dodgers, Padres, or the Rangers could get him in a trade.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26539...ster-trade

I disagree with the Houston one they have. We wouldn't give up Lance McCullers for Sale. We need more good pitchers, not swap out a good one for another good one. As much as I would love to have Sale, I think that is too much to give up. Considering his temper and competitive drive, they should entertain a cash trade to somewhere he would actually want to play.

If there's one team that has the prospects for Sale, it is indeed Houston, and they showed this offseason the prospect haul they're willing to give up for an impact reliever (Ken Giles), let alone a CY caliber ace with 3 years of cheap control.

Sans McCullers, all talks would have to start with Bregman, and one of A.J. Reed or Francis Martes. Then a mid tier #7-15 prospect, and one or two extreme upside guys that the White Sox have a fancy for, and maybe a throw-in like Fiers or Feldman to give Chi some major league rotation depth.

That's a lot for any team to give up. I think chances are low that any team will come up with a package that would both wow the Sox and not deplete the farm system for the team receiving Sale.

If it happens, I put my money on the Dodgers. They've got... the prospects, deep pockets, a perpetual pipeline into Latin America, a huge monkey on their back to perform in the postseason.

Proposed LA Dodgers package:
1. Julio Urias
2. Joc Pederson
3. Austin Barnes
4. Yadier Alvarez
5. High ceiling guy in Low A

Proposed Chicago White Sox package:
1. Chris Sale
2. Mid Tier prospect like Courtney Hawkins

In this (highly-hypothetical scenario) Dodgers get an ace, and the best 1.2 punch in baseball once Kershaw is back and healthy. Without Pederson in CF, Thompson takes his place (not ideal but there is not much difference between Pederson and Thompson).

1. Utley, 2B
2. Seager, SS
3. Turner, 3B
4. Gonzalez, 1B
5. Puig, RF
6. Kendrick, LF
7. Thompson, CF
8. Grandal/Ellis, C

Not a worldbeater of an offense, but a solid reliable one that has both pop and some on base skill.

Rotation:
1. Kershaw (once back)
2. Sale
3. Maeda
4. Kazmir
5. McCarthy

Even in the worst case scenario, in which Kershaw is out for the rest of the year. Sale assumes the role as ace, and you just have to roll the dice every fifth day with Bud Norris taking the last rotation spot (which is irrelevant once the playoffs come around).

Like I said, I doubt this will happen, but it is a scenario I think makes a lot of sense and fit the needs of both teams fairly well.

[Chunnel]

(07-26-2016 12:30 PM)Mentavious Wrote:  

(07-21-2016 01:14 PM)Chunnel Wrote:  

Top 10 baseball players of all-time?

Indeed, though I broke mine up by positions players and pitchers.

(07-26-2016 12:47 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

Good list

Pitchers: Tough to leave Koufax and Gibson off the list.

Hitters: I would have Gehrig over Wagner

Who would you remove to put in Koufax/Gibson?

I like Gibson and would put him near the top of the just missed. For me Koufax just didn't play long enough. His peak was the stuff of legends, but it was just that, a peak. If he played past 30 without his arm falling off, he could have been the best of all time.

The more I think about it I need to remove either Waddell or Seaver to put in Lefty Grove. I think the folklore surrounding Waddell got the best of me, whereas with Seaver I wanted to put a more contemporary guy on the list.

But Grove's numbers are undeniable. Playing in an offensive heavy era, he consistently sported ERAs less than 3.00 and led the league in strikeouts 7 times. Plus he didn't start his major league career till he was 25 (due to BS contract disputes with his minor league club).

When you think about the late 20s and early 30s of baseball (essentially anything post deadball era) you only remember the great hitters: Ruth, Gehrig, Hornsby, Foxx, Greenberg, Sisler, etc. And the pitchers, extremely hard to come up with icons (Grove, Hubbell, and Dizzy Dean are the one I can come up with in 30 quick seconds), because pitching took a backseat to an onslaught of homers and .400 hitters. Then to think that Grove was still able to win 300 games, toss 35 career shutouts, and silence big bats in a high-run scoring environment is quite the achievement.