[Teddykgb]

I have had the same situation the last 3 girls I have hung out with.

We go on a date and they park at my building. We then walk to the place we are going. Only 1 of the 3 girls got drunk during the date.
All 3 I was able to bring back to my place and get them on my bed. I made out with all three and felt up all three and even got a handjob from one but I absolutely am having zero success with sex on the first date.

I haven't been around enough to know if this is correct or not. I feel like I am doing everything right. They are on my fucking bed but they always put up so much resistance that if I pushed any harder I would feel like I was going too far.

Am I just going to have to suck it up and go on 2 or 3 dates with a girl before sex? I swear they have a fucking rule in there head that tells them "I wont have sex on the first date"

Usually I get frustrated right before the leave and I know i'm not getting any and I just break it off because i'm irritated. Luckily i'm not droppping much money on these girls.

I'm also doing this on the down low so I dont really have that many oppurtunitys to set up POF dates. Maybe 1 day a week where I know i'm safe.

[Stiletto]

The fact that you get frustated when you don't get sex means you're probably not having sex enough, hence you get too eager once they are inside you apartment. Girls smell you eagerness and leave...

Remember that in general a woman wants to have sex with if she comes to your apartment. So it means you fucked it up!

Next time when they arrive at your apartment, even if you've already spent 2 drinks at a bar with her, go both sit in your sofa, take your time, drink something at ease, escalate with kissing but always pull back first. Make her want to have sex with you more than the other way around. Then go in for the kill.

[Teddykgb]

(05-27-2013 08:44 PM)Stiletto Wrote:  

The fact that you get frustated when you don't get sex means you're probably not having sex enough, hence you get too eager once they are inside you apartment. Girls smell you eagerness and leave...

Remember that in general a woman wants to have sex with if she comes to your apartment. So it means you fucked it up!

Next time when they arrive at your apartment, even if you've already spent 2 drinks at a bar with her, go both sit in your sofa, take your time, drink something at ease, escalate with kissing but always pull back first. Make her want to have sex with you more than the other way around. Then go in for the kill.

Its not that i'm not getting enough sex because I am with another girl but I just want the randomness back. I only have a small windown of about 1 or maybe 2 days a week to get this done so I feel like I cant fuck around with too much small talk.

I think you might be on to it. I usually give about 15 minutes of small talk yada yada and then I start pushing hard. I am ashamed of myself. On this last girl I just threw out a last ditch effort and literally started begging her saying please! She text me after she left but she is probably about a 6. I was hoping if I went on a date with a girl that was lower on the number scale than me that I could get the snl!

[MrXY]

First date sex is the exception not the rule. If you got the last three girls onto your bed on the first date your game is very good.

Most girls will not have sex on the first date very often. Usually you will get it on the second or third date if the first date went well.

The only suggestions I have are to make sure you are doing enough venue changes (3-4), try to get them to drink more (try a shot or two) and to use freezeouts to overcome LMR if you aren't already.

But I wouldn't sweat it- you have to put in some work to get to poosy paradise most times. Often a girl who put up a lot of LMR on the first date will cave right in or even jump on you on the second or third because she feels that she's done her job and proved to you she's not a slut

[Teddykgb]

I just feel like I read about so many guys on here getting the SNL all the time so I was just starting to wonder what i'm doing wrong.

[WestIndianArchie]

How's your freeze out game?
Did you give them any affection prior to getting them to the sex locale? (i.e. did you kiss them at the bar defusing some of the surprise..)

The current RVF formula (as I understand it)
- date @ drinking location (set sexual frame early on, kino but not no kissing)
- venue change (more kino but still no kissing)
- sex location - prepped and ready for action, set the mood, ramp up, pull back, ramp up, pull back - then go for the full close

If that fails, then you're supposed to freeze out.
If the freeze out attempts fail, there's a theorhetical question that you've horn dogged your way out of any future fucks, or she will be ready next time.

WIA

[Teddykgb]

(05-27-2013 09:09 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

How's your freeze out game?
Did you give them any affection prior to getting them to the sex locale? (i.e. did you kiss them at the bar defusing some of the surprise..)

The current RVF formula (as I understand it)
- date @ drinking location (set sexual frame early on, kino but not no kissing)
- venue change (more kino but still no kissing)
- sex location - prepped and ready for action, set the mood, ramp up, pull back, ramp up, pull back - then go for the full close

If that fails, then you're supposed to freeze out.
If the freeze out attempts fail, there's a theorhetical question that you've horn dogged your way out of any future fucks, or she will be ready next time.

WIA

I see what i'm doing wrong. I totally skip the whole ramp up pull back method. I never had heard about it until now.

All three girls I made sure to have physical contact with earlier in the evening like pretending to push them in a fountain and I hold my arms around them so they dont fall in etc.

Freeze out = ignore them?

[ryanf]

Are you bouncing them to different venues? This helps TREMENDOUSLY.

[Teddykgb]

(05-27-2013 09:17 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

Are you bouncing them to different venues? This helps TREMENDOUSLY.

One girl I did the other two we didn't really drink much since it was a work night.

Why is bouncing venues multiple times good?

[ryanf]

(05-27-2013 09:26 PM)murrb Wrote:  

(05-27-2013 09:17 PM)ryanf Wrote:  

Are you bouncing them to different venues? This helps TREMENDOUSLY.

One girl I did the other two we didn't really drink much since it was a work night.

Why is bouncing venues multiple times good?

It does something to their brain. Something about switching venues and moving around helps them bond to you, and they feel like you have spent more time together than you actually have. It's a great technique.

[WestIndianArchie]

Lots of work to be done here.

1. Read Bang (game in plain english)
2. Read the mystery method (game in internet jargon, but super specific)
- venue change aka bouncing - the more places that she sees you in, that you are together in - the more she thinks that the 2 of you are a pair. And usually when you bounce, you're the person that she knows at the new venue. (it's also key to never ever go to her home bar/club. too much distraction if your game is weak. If your game is strong, you have to blow her shit up in her own spot and run it. You have to turn into a social monster, impress everyone, in particular the chicks, bro up the dudes - even the haters - that's advanced level game)

3. Read Tuth's post on the 1st night bang recipe. (updated versions of 1 and 2)
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-8681.html

You can bring a chick back to your spot and one part of her wants to re-enact that Farrah Abraham tape, the other part of her is wondering how many likes she got for her latest Instagram pic.

Per Mystery Method
- a chick doesn't want to feel like a slut
- if she gets too hot and bothered too fast and realizes it, she's gonna go into lock down mode - cause she doesn't want to take yet another strange dick. Contrary to popular belief, even within the game community, bitches love sex, they love lots of sex, they'd fuck the entire nation if they could get away with it and not lose face.

Per WIA
- if you go out with a chick, or bring a chick back, SEX IS ON THE TABLE
- even if she consciously and verbally says that sex is not on the table, part of her knows that it's a possibility. Doesn't matter if she's wearing her granny panties, didn't shave her cunt or legs, or is on her period. If she's out with you, and back at your spot, she knows that she can take some dick.

This applies to conservative muslims in Saudi Arabia to raging lesbians in SF - they all want dick. Even if objectively this is not the case, as a player, you must believe this. You are an apostle and you're delivering the Gospel of Sex to these leg locked heathens. Remember, Jah, Allah, Buddah, Yahweh and the Atheists want you to fuck her. It's your highest calling.

So what you should do next time
- go through a "sex ritual" - Tuth has it in his post, but google "overcoming last minute resistance" and you'll get Google's Cache of the Mystery Method.

Incense? Candles? Pantera or Cannibal Corpse playing quietly in the background...

- when you're starting to mug down, you are the first to pull away.
"we shouldn't be doing this"
"you're very bad"
^this is some straight hamster shit, but basically her beauty is overpowering her and you've got to maintain some self control

This is how you prevent LMR. You withdraw the sexual feelings and the intimate feelings before she over heats and gets scared.

And then you re-engage. You might do this a few times before she's the one unzipping your pants.

I used to unsnap a chicks bra while we frenched through her shirt. Mark of a pro, but I had a few chicks recognize that the girls were free and it freaked them the fuck out. And not on some haha, I see you've done this before, but on some...oh no, i'm being seduced, just like all the other bitches, i'm not special, this whole thing isn't special, fuck you dude.

A lot of game is state control. Restraining yourself when you should be going ahead, and going ahead when all you want to do is hold the wall. You should be bold in the approach, and controlled during the close.

The old wive's tale is that a chick wants to fuck the 15 minutes AFTER you do.

So that's why you play this little game.

Young players get a bitch through the door, throw em up against the wall like you see in the movies, and then proceed to take off shirts, and bend her over the corner of your Ikea Ektorp Sofa and precede to go all Nacho Vidal.

^that's the 2nd date.

The first date is attempt to overload her "logical" brain with her emotional brain.

Even if you do this consistently, you're still going to run into a chick who's apprehensive.

In some cases, she wants you, but she's scared.
In the worst case scenario, she doesn't want you anymore. Something you did snapped her out of lovey dovey mood.

In either case, you just won't know.

So the FREEZE OUT

As Mystery explains tight game up until this point implies
- you're doing kino
- you're doing compliance tests

So when her clam clams up, he advises (and this is what i've done in the past)
- get up
- blow out the candles/incense
- check your email
- go make a sandwich
- challenge her to game of checkers (not candy crush - no smart phones, nothing to remind her of what time it is)

This freeze = the withdrawal of both the sexual and intimate good feelings that she was getting.

The mistake most guys make, and believe me, i've made them...had this chick from Monterrey in my bed, I know she wanted dick, but it was too quick for her to be back at my place...

Most guys will stay cuddled up on the couch, cooing, seemingly a little negative because of his hard dick and her unwillingness to relieve his biological need. Blueballs will make you mad as fuck.

Well she's getting what she wants, intimacy with a good dude.
But if she senses that intimacy is not really reciprocated and this was an elaborate ruse to get her ass up and biting a pillow - the connection decays.

So you freeze her out. You keep the communication lines open and smooth, but you withdraw the warmth (along with your hard dick).

And you have to do all of this with efficiency and sincerity. If you come off mad or sad, you "lose value".

But now you're training her. If she wants those good intimate/relationship type vibes, she has to put out. You don't dole your emotions out to mere friends, you're not a cuddle buddy. Of course all of this is non-verbal, and done through actions and body language.

All of this assumes that the chick you're dealing with is one that still has the capacity for this sort of sex.

You might get a super-jaded bitch back to your spot that has been fucked 6 ways to Sunday and your actions, your ritual, is not doing anything for her brain chemistry.

if that happens, open up the forum!

WIA

[RCron]

(05-27-2013 08:49 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

First date sex is the exception not the rule. If you got the last three girls onto your bed on the first date your game is very good.

Most girls will not have sex on the first date very often. Usually you will get it on the second or third date if the first date went well.

The only suggestions I have are to make sure you are doing enough venue changes (3-4), try to get them to drink more (try a shot or two) and to use freezeouts to overcome LMR if you aren't already.

But I wouldn't sweat it- you have to put in some work to get to poosy paradise most times. Often a girl who put up a lot of LMR on the first date will cave right in or even jump on you on the second or third because she feels that she's done her job and proved to you she's not a slut

Based on a lot of other anecdotal stories and evidence on this forum it seems as though sex on a first date is a foregone conclusion and anything to the contrary is simply due to bad game and general fuckups on our part. MrXY you're one of the senior members that I respect the most on here so I have to say it's a big relief to hear this from you. I've had similar problems with first date LMR and would beat myself up over it time and again. Of course, there's always room for improvement but I definitely feel more confident in the state of my game.

[soup]

(05-27-2013 08:30 PM)murrb Wrote:  

I have had the same situation the last 3 girls I have hung out with.

We go on a date and they park at my building. We then walk to the place we are going. Only 1 of the 3 girls got drunk during the date.
All 3 I was able to bring back to my place and get them on my bed. I made out with all three and felt up all three and even got a handjob from one but I absolutely am having zero success with sex on the first date.

I haven't been around enough to know if this is correct or not. I feel like I am doing everything right. They are on my fucking bed but they always put up so much resistance that if I pushed any harder I would feel like I was going too far.

Am I just going to have to suck it up and go on 2 or 3 dates with a girl before sex? I swear they have a fucking rule in there head that tells them "I wont have sex on the first date"

Usually I get frustrated right before the leave and I know i'm not getting any and I just break it off because i'm irritated. Luckily i'm not droppping much money on these girls.

I'm also doing this on the down low so I dont really have that many oppurtunitys to set up POF dates. Maybe 1 day a week where I know i'm safe.

Go read about my last bang on the I Just Had Sex thread. The one about the Indian girl.

I detail how I passed through steep LMR.

Whatever happens, don't get into a logical discussion with her.

Say stuff like, "you're right, we shouldn't do this " and then do the real talk with your kisses and hands.

[XXL]

- i can sense that you rush things too much
girls are like cars, you have to turn them on first to go for a ride. next time try to switch from driving really fast on 2nd gear with high revs to slow steady ride on 5th gear with slow revs.

- pay attention to her
her reactions to your game tell you everything. if you try to take her hand and lead her around physically and she declines she doesn't trust you. now you know. etc. that's why try to....

- let her experience you a lot
ie: switch places, change topics, interact with other people in front of her, challenge her, appreciate her, qualify her, do some roleplays [you're my bitchy ex wife for the next 10 minutes, start!], build tension by pauses and deep eye contact, mess something up and let her see how you recover, etc. that's how you build massive comfort. it's not fact based like where you from/what you do etc. it's behavior based. she will trust if she sees a lot from you in different scenarios. it's like.. she's seen enough from you > therefore she knows what to expect from you > therefore she feels comfortable being with you > therefore she trusts you > therefore she wants you.

- pull to your place at the end when she's ready
that's the way i do it. i just think.. ok i can't sleep with her in public and disrespecting time factor will backfire. cool, let's waste time creatively [like in detention in school] and have some epic fun time together and let it unfold.

[rivelino]

great thread so far. excellent advice by all, especially on the bouncing, on the push pulling sexually, and on the freeze out.

however, only XXL's reply talks about something that is HUGE for girls: comfort. trust. an emotional connection.

in a very real sense, LMR is a girl in a struggle with herself. part of her is horny and wanting your dick, but the other part is concerned, not only about the social implications of fucking a new man, but also about the emotional and even physical concerns about fucking a new man. the more of an emotional connection you can create with a girl, the more you will be able to make her feel like you are someone she *should* be sexually intimate with.

i really liked XXL's post which he called "My Fastest Road To Intimacy", and which i called in my own head "be the crocodile". an excerpt:

Quote:

THE DEEP SHIT..anything that conveys comfort, trust, security, vulnerability and emotional connection. what i do is i open myself up to her. i share stories from my life (bad and good).. how my broken home childhood affected me.. how hard it is to me to trust people.. how i can't find myself.. how i feel introverted and extroverted back and forth which makes me crazy.. how my grandpa was my best friend who understood me..

dude, after reading that, *i* feel closer to XXL, i feel like he is someone i want to help, someone i want to share things with, etc etc. no homo but see how it works? sharing, being vulnerable, being open, being raw and naked -- that is the kind of emotional chick crack girls absolutely love.

of course, you can never lose your alpha frame. you can never whine, or complain, or talk about problems that you have not overcome, or things that make you look weak in the present. that's why talking about your childhood is so money, because children are weak by nature, and we've all been there.

i mean, this line is so good "my grandpa was my best friend who understood me", jesus, now **this** is the kind of stuff that melts girls hearts. combined, of course, with strong alpha eye contact, strong alpha posture and body language, a great outfit, great haircut, smooth styling, confidence, etc etc etc.

a girl is looking for a strong man with a kind heart -- a kind heart, for *her* and for his family and loved ones. not a bleeding heart loser who has a heart that is *too* kind and who thus is a pushover to anybody. mystery talked a lot about being the "protector of loved ones", and he's right. that kind of thing melts girls hearts.

so anyway, point of all this, great advice all around, just don't forget about the emotional connection. it's crucial.

that reminds me, badger has a great post about emotional connections, and questions to ask to get there:
http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2012/03/2...onnection/

and finally, this isn't anything new. it's all in the mystery method. the M3 model has three phases:

1. attraction
2. comfort
3. seduction

i actually would relabel it:

1. attraction
2. emotional connection
3. seduction

comfort to me sounds too much like "comfortable", as in making sure she is comfortable, relaxed, not scared, having a good time.

no.

when mystery says comfort, he really means "a deep emotional connection", also called snowflaking, like the two of you are really connecting in this deep, emotional, almost spiritual way, almost like destiny, like you were bound to meet, like she is the *real special* girl that you have been looking for, and you are the *real special* man that she has been looking for.

of course, that's a tricky path, because most newbies to game are recovering betas with oneitis and pedestalization issues -- i STILL have tons of pedestalization issues -- so it is slightly dangerous to go for too much of a real emotional connection with her, because watch out, you don't want to pedestalize her for real! -- so yeah, it's tricky, but that doesn't mean you should work at developing this "emotional muscle" and this system of enchanting a girl and making her fall for you.

good luck man. you are doing great. having one girl and getting pussy on the side, hell yeah!

[Parlay44]

Do I really need to say it?

[bojangles]

pre-empt the LMR, make the girl assume you are the one who is having the LMR then she will try to push you through it and at the same time think wow he's having the same thoughts as me and that is part of the comfort the 2 posts above talk about

example:
make out - woah this is going too fast, maybe we should slow down, continue make out

[Teddykgb]

I love you guys

[rivelino]

(05-28-2013 06:05 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Do I really need to say it?

actually, i think this is bad advice.

trying to overcome LMR by attempting to go down on her is subservient and low value.

in fact, the opposite is much more likely to work. whip out your cock and tell her to suck it, or even jerk off in front of her. that is much more alpha. it is dominant and confident and SELFISH. girls love selfish men.

read d&p's advice:
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/03/02/the-...ut-method/
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/02/27/when...o-a-close/

[Teddykgb]

(05-28-2013 07:17 PM)rivelino Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 06:05 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Do I really need to say it?

actually, i think this is bad advice.

trying to overcome LMR by attempting to go down on her is subservient and low value.

in fact, the opposite is much more likely to work. whip out your cock and tell her to suck it, or even jerk off in front of her. that is much more alpha. it is dominant and confident and SELFISH. girls love selfish men.

read d&p's advice:
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/03/02/the-...ut-method/
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/02/27/when...o-a-close/

The last girl I did pull out my dick and made her touch it with her hand. We were both laying on my bed watching tv and I unzipped my pants and she kept saying "nope not going to happen" then I grabbed her hand. I expected her to pull away but she just let it be limp so I could move it and I put it on my dick and started rubbing it back and forth. She wouldn't grip it or anything and she just kept saying "nope not going to happen" haha

She text me later "you are pushy!"

[Gmac]

You're making everything overly complicated Riv (as usual).

Guys, take it from the Gmac... if you're getting LMR in bed the girl needs a few things:

A) Alcohol

B) More alcohol

C) Even more alcohol

D) Her hand placed on your dick (alternative: dick in a box)

E) All of the Above (correct answer)

Or if you want to skip all that silly "foreplay" and you have Gmac-level swag, just use the bathroom line to get into her place and come out naked. Time tested and approved.

Please post your future attempts/successes here.

[Parlay44]

(05-28-2013 07:17 PM)rivelino Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 06:05 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Do I really need to say it?

actually, i think this is bad advice.

trying to overcome LMR by attempting to go down on her is subservient and low value.

in fact, the opposite is much more likely to work. whip out your cock and tell her to suck it, or even jerk off in front of her. that is much more alpha. it is dominant and confident and SELFISH. girls love selfish men.

read d&p's advice:
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/03/02/the-...ut-method/
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/02/27/when...o-a-close/

Call it what you want. It works.

I think some of you guys are trolling in this thread. Have you ever actually made love to a woman or do you just go
straight up jackhammer style and pump and dump them?

[Teddykgb]

(05-29-2013 06:27 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 07:17 PM)rivelino Wrote:  

(05-28-2013 06:05 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

Do I really need to say it?

actually, i think this is bad advice.

trying to overcome LMR by attempting to go down on her is subservient and low value.

in fact, the opposite is much more likely to work. whip out your cock and tell her to suck it, or even jerk off in front of her. that is much more alpha. it is dominant and confident and SELFISH. girls love selfish men.

read d&p's advice:
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/03/02/the-...ut-method/
http://dangerandplay.com/2012/02/27/when...o-a-close/

Call it what you want. It works.

I think some of you guys are trolling in this thread. Have you ever actually made love to a woman or do you just go
straight up jackhammer style and pump and dump them?

Straight up jackhammer pump and dump. Maybe one day I will grow up and try to learn how to make love but until then pump and dump works best because they aren't as inclined to want to come back and lets be honest because i'm lazy and selfish.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(05-28-2013 07:28 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

You're making everything overly complicated Riv (as usual).

Guys, take it from the Gmac... if you're getting LMR in bed the girl needs a few things:

A) Alcohol

B) More alcohol

C) Even more alcohol

D) Her hand placed on your dick (alternative: dick in a box)

E) All of the Above (correct answer)

Or if you want to skip all that silly "foreplay" and you have Gmac-level swag, just use the bathroom line to get into her place and come out naked. Time tested and approved.

Please post your future attempts/successes here.

1) I agree with the alcohol suggestion. It speeds up the seduction process. Meetup for drinks late, though allow enough time for you to execute 2-4 venue changes if needed. She may be ready as soon as the first venue, but if not, don't hesitate to change venues. If she's going the distance with the drinking then you're in great shape. If she's no longer drinking, go straight to number 2.

I engage in kino if not the makeout at the first venue. In the event of the venue change I'll stop on the way to go for the makeout. That's just my style but everyone is different.

2) Be cool and take it back to your place or hers. Whatever you do, don't try to convey any neediness or outcome dependency. If she wants to go home, head there and use the bathroom line if she doesn't invite you in. Once inside, have her situate you with a drink and sit next to her. Escalate.

[Gmac]

Same as HC for me. There is a general order of things, and it all depends on how quickly you are able to move to that next level of interaction. Finding the right time to kiss a girl can be tough, but getting her to make out with you in a crowded bar can be really challenging with certain girls because they are insecure and can't stop thinking what "everyone else" is thinking about them (when in reality no one gives a flying fuck). This is why you change to a more secluded venue before bouncing to your place. Forget what "Mystery Method" says about feeling more comfortable being more places with you, that's bullshit. It's all about her mood and how good you are both vibing.

Fast forward to your place (or hers)...

If you haven't been making out and (literally) feeling each other up in one way or another at that point in the night, it's generally way too early to pull the dick move. Having performed this technique successfully too many times to count, it's important to not let things wind down too much with anxiety, the passing of time, or distractions (roommates, phone calls/texts, etc.) because A) she will start sobering up or B) she will lose all the butterflies for you she's been experiencing.

Knowing when to unsuspectingly give her the D is an art that takes a series of embarrassing failures to master.