[2Wycked]

Fatso is a Norwegian movie, released in 2008, about a fat, ugly man who cannot get laid. I will use the movie and its plot and characters to analyze the narcissism of the beta male – as typified by the main character, Rino, in the movie. I will also draw on Dr. Robert Glover’s book “No More Mister Nice Guy,” as through which a lens to understand why these sorts of males exist.



The movie opens with Rino in a grocery store. Already, we can tell he is fat, unattractive and tremendously awkward – especially with women. He clearly has a crush on the cute blond at the checkout line – but has negative game and even trips when leaving the store. Immediately, we are hit with a cartoon spiff. Rino makes and draws a series of cartoons in which his alter-ego – Captain Cock – either does things he won’t do in real life or is a scapegoat for the guilt Rino feels about his sexual feelings and desires. In the initial cartoon, a bunch of cops show up and arrest him for having a hard-on. They interrogate him for watching tons of porn and visiting sex-chat sites. In a bit of foreshadowing, the cops solve his “problem” of having sexual impulses by castrating him.

Zooming back to real life, we see Rino illustrating the exact cartoon sketch he just laid out. A ring at the door and we see him hurrying through his house – porn on the computer screen, his living room littered with Coke bottles, beer cans and a pizza box. Then, in comes Rino’s clearly narcissistic best friend – skinny, ugly and looking like he stumbled out of bad 1970’s porno. He comes in and immediately begins riffing about his tight game and banging asthmatic chicks. They go out the bar and he brags about banging a 53 year-old woman.

Another important take-away from the movie is still in the first ten minutes. Rino’s dad comes in – with a kid- and is seemingly gay. Regardless, he has the air of a man who can’t understand why Rino is the way he is. He has the usual parental exhortations – why can’t you get a girlfriend? Why aren’t you ambitious? Rino’s horrible insecurities most assuredly were partially gifted by this man. In any event, the main point of the movie is how Rino will get along with a Swedish roommate – a young attractive blond named Marlin. A match made in hell.



She moves in and immediately I got the impression of a breezy, superficial party girl. She is bubbly and bright towards Rino, which catches him completely off guard because no woman has ever treated him as such. Early on, there are some funny and sad scenes, when one of Marlin’s friends catches Rino trying on some of Marlin’s clothes. They are very amused, as they can tell this man has no experience with women.

It continues in this vein, as Rino interacts with Marlin and her friends – many funny scenes come about through this. However, two strands of the movie appear. One, is Marlin’s increasing reliance on Rino emotionally. Rino trys to the play simp “pity me game,” which gets her to hug him, gets her to confess feelings about stuff to her and gets her to cuddle with him and all that. For the moment, the male hamster is satisfied. The second, is his relationship with his best friend. His best friend is a rank narcissist. He uses Rino as little more than some pathetic guy he can boast to about banging old women, hookers and selling dope to kids. His relationship with Rino hits a climax at a house party Marlin throws, which is a mini-climax.

In the lead-up to this party, Rino tries working out. However, one more of his cartoons pops up as he falsely thinks everybody is judging him at the gym, so he runs away, never to come back. He changes his look, wearing a suit coat to the party along with styling his hair. He still looks a little shabby, but much better than before. Marlin says he looks cute and he stares into the mirror after that compliment - a little too long. Regardless, Rino at least makes some fumbling gestures at women and they are not turned-on, but neither actively dissing him.

Once again, he flees to the balcony, where Marlin consoles him telling him drunkenly to not be depressed. Rino’s friend comes in, blazing mad Rino is throwing a party with cute girls and demands to be allowed to cook a few pounds of bacon on his stove. Rino’s friend remarks to him, “Is bacon too primitive for you now?” I laughed hard at that one.

However, this symbolizes what Rino is to the people in his life. To his dad, a failure and does nothing to understand Rino. To Marlin, an emotional tampon. To his best friend, a simp he can feel superior to. However, this blows up as expected.

Later on she is crying at the park and he inquires as to why. Long story short, the alpha male she was getting fucked by broke up with her. They take on one of the most beta pacts ever – she steps into celibacy, while he steps out. She decides to set him up with a date.

This delusional beta walks into the restaurant and immediately approaches an attractive blond at the bar with no fear. It shows much fear can impede a man, as the female wasn't swooning but was at least entertaining his advances. It isn’t his date, however, as a chubby blond calls him over.

Rino loses it. He calls her a disgusting lard ass and pours his beer in sheer beta defiance over his head. She grabs his hand in an act of empathy, but he jerks away and leaves. He flees home and begins to draw one of cartoons in which Captain Cock takes control of his sexuality and fucks hot chicks.

He meets up with his best friend and decides to go to a strip club. Rino gets turned on and decides to go with his best friend to a brothel to finally get laid. When he goes into the dirty brothel, there are several fairly good-looking women there. He has serious jitters and the matron gives a strong drink to help him relax. He chugs it and gets more nervous, so nervous he runs all the way home in the pouring rain. He finds Marlin, crying because her alpha came by, fucked her and then told her it was over again.



He carries his fair maiden the bedroom, where they sleep and cuddle together, her pressing her almost naked body against his. In his sleep, he dreams of fucking her, but habits are habits and he begins stroking in his sleep. She wakes up and recoils in horror and calls him a disgusting pervert. Bad choice of words on her part because that triggers his deepest fear and he runs to the bathroom, grabs a blade and threatens to cut his dick off. She eggs him on at first, telling him he won’t do it because he is too big of pussy. Well, he does it. We are presented with another cartoon montage where he gives up his cock and balls, much to cheering of a crowd. He gets to a hospital and is fixed up.

He comes home and Marlin is waiting for him. She comments on how sorry she is for egging him on and tells him she found his drawings and he is really good at drawing. She gives him a final exhortation – possibly the best advice he got the entire movie – and to leave the apartment. He is too trapped in his own mind there. At the end, he goes back to the market with the original girl. He buys some paints and asks her on a date – very badly. She politely declines and leaves; all the while pretending – in his mind- he has changed significantly.

Whew, what to make of this? Rino may appear to be a narcissist and he does have narcissistic qualities, as he is preoccupied with his false view of himself and ignores his true SMV. He displays nothing more than superficial changes in his life – his workout routine lasted all of one day. He changes his wardrobe, but that is the definition of superficiality. What he really displays is sometimes called “inverted narcissism” or, codependency.

Codependency is a common psychological issue that one develops as a child, with either a narcissistic parent or a drug-addicted parent. They are characterized as having a deep ability to understand other’s emotions, but only as so far as it relates to the given codependent’s ability to perform a particular role in a narcissist’s life. In Fatso, Rino plays the regular simp who is psychologically used by those around him, but insofar that it allows him to act out certain roles. With his best friend, he gets to act out his failed relationship with his father, as he gets to the play the fascinated, idolizing inferior. With Malin, he plays the emotional tampon, the guy who gives her the emotional support she craves from the alpha male. With Malin, he gets to live his fantasy of “Captain Cock” who not only saves women from the clutches of uncaring assholes, but who also gets his sexuality approved of. I noted only once did he actually fantasize about having sex; it was all about the ability to get sex in theory. That sounds like narcissism.



Understand that deep down; Rino doesn’t want his sexual desires approved of. Codependents have a superficial desire for approval, as that is what they got from their self-absorbed parents. Any real displays of approval are almost always rejected, sometimes very strongly. This is reflected in Rino’s inability to come to grips with his sexuality. He craves superficial acceptance – for example, when he asks that women out at the end, she says she is engaged and “might” take go on a date with him with she was single. It was worded so that it was a very light rejection, but still could be taken as an acceptance. That is exactly what he wants – superficial approval from women so he can live out his fantasies in his head, while simultaneously avoiding any real, substantive contact with women. The closest he got to ever touching a female was after a serious psychological shock at the brothel, having run home half-drunk and presented with a great white-knighting situation. The best he coughs up is jacking off and then trying to slice off his dick.



This is where the book “No More Mister Nice Guy” comes in. Written by Robert Glover, it is a handbook for the beginning of changing a “nice guy” or beta male. Dr. Glover does lay some serious tips to salvage the inner game of a man – and I think he specifically targeted the codependent. Understand, the narcissist is protected by narcissistic armor – their defenses to reject criticism. Telling a narcissist in therapy, you have value, you are worthy of love – they will laugh at you. Of course they believe that, the narcissistic armor ensures that at a superficial. In my opinion, the most insecure people are narcissists. They hide behind serious defense mechanisms that make you think they are strong. They aren’t. However, this one of the benefits of being a codependent comes in. Codependents already blame themselves – their self-hatred is just below the surface – that is why narcissists target them so shamelessly. They know they can get them to act out the roles they need them to.

This is why codependents are receptive to therapy – accepting blame for their actions is their nature. They don’t have the serious deflection armor narcissists have. While their self-blame is shamelessly self-centered, it is the first step of solving any problem – admitting a problem. Codependents are acutely aware of their deficiencies – look at Rino. He knew was fat, ugly and sexually repulsive. His cartoons he drew reflected that realization. Marlin, at the end, remarks that has a level of self-awareness. She recognized and empathized with the fact Rino knew on some level he was sexually worthless to most women. Unlike his best friend, who would never had every created any cartoon like that – his cartoon would have been a “Captain Cock” that always was right, always on the winning side and always pulling down hot chicks.

Back to the book, Glover lays out nice guys. He characterizes them as guys, who think if they get everything “right,” that love, lust and all that jazz would flood into their lives. He positively cites Lasch’s “Culture of Narcissism” book near the beginning, signaling he notices that many men are suffering from narcissistic parents. However, his expose of the typical nice guy could literally be channeled through Rino.

In Glover’s words, nice guys operate on two axis’: the “I’m so bad” and “I’m so nice” nice guy. The “I’m so bad” nice guy is really a guy, who has been convinced of his inferiority by a parent, that he abuses alcohol, drugs and others in an attempt to prove his lack of worth . In other words, he attempts to paper his own perceived worthlessness by pretending to be bad. He really isn’t anti-social, he just acts anti-social as way of getting attention. The “I’m so nice” guy is a person who believes that they really are the nicest person around. They paper over anger, fear and sexuality by pretending it doesn’t exist. After all, they are the paradigm of the goodness. Do know, that any nice guy can vacillate between either polar opposite given the right circumstances. Rino displays the "I'm so nice" guy outwardly. When confronted with this sexual desires, porn use, etc. he flips to the other end of the spectrum - "I'm so bad," I'm sick, depraved and a loser. When confronted with his desire for Malin by Malin, he runs off in a tantrum to deny himself his very manhood. A playing up of the "I'm so bad," while emphasizing "I'm so good" I will rid the world of my depraved sexuality.

Let’s go deeper into Rino, otherwise known as the stereotypical nice guy. What causes these feelings of worthlessness? Two concepts: abandonment and shame. Abandonment is fairly straight-forward for me. If you are raised by a narcissist, that person only cares about themselves. A baby would quickly realize that their needs and desires aren’t relevant. They would begin to act out in ways that would allow to them to function with the paradigm of that relationship. Since narcissists need to feel superior, babies and children would most likely play the inferior to get attention. Second, is shame.

Shame is a complicated subject that I won’t go into detail into this already lengthy writeup. However, Roberts provides a great breakdown of shame. Shame-based people are people who believe that is inherently dangerous to be who they are. It is a dichotomy that breaks down – “There must be something wrong with me because [fill in the blank],” and “I am lovable when [fill in the blank].” Analyzing Rino through this lenses, it becomes clear he was lovable as a child when he took care of female emotional needs, he was in the wrong when he asserted himself. He was lovable when listened and praised a male superior, he was in the wrong when expressed himself in a way that a female found inappropriate.

This is where Robert’s analysis of the social forces that lead the internalized shame of the nice guy comes in. Roberts takes the gloves off and comes down on a few forces: lack of fathers, a feminized education and feminism in general. He recognizes the lack of quality fathers impairs a male’s ability to grow into a confident man. Second, he comes out and says the early years of education isn’t about education but learning how to please the female superior (!). Third, is feminism; Roberts says that sayings like “All men are pigs” or “All men are rapists” do nothing but hurt vulnerable men; further, even sayings like “A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle” hurts men who were already conditioned in this female-centric to look for a woman’s approval first. Plus, is feminists' inability to handle real and honest male sexuality. Ask Rino about that?

My review of the book ends there, but, take a note, if you are struggling with inner game or psychological issues, please do read it. It could help you. If it doesn’t, then do seek out professional help. If somebody shames you for that, fuck them. If your problems are that deep you may need professional help.



In the end, let me finish with a lament. While the post most assuredly breezed over serious issues like the culture of narcissism, I will submit a lament for the beta male. In many ways, they have no chance. Subjected to system whereby they have to seek female approval from a tender age, in many ways, it becomes almost impossible to get them to change. They are born and raised in a world that will never have their needs and wants considered important. Women will ruthlessly oppress them in order to ensure they have a class of males to use emotionally and maybe settle down with later on in life. Their own mothers, sisters and teachers combine to form a system that will never develops positive self-confidence for the average male.

Rino's father was a part of the problem and even reinforces' Rinos bare utility to women. He exhorts him to gets gainfully employed - reinforcing he is a provider male, not a person who will be independently attractive to women. He never sits Rino down to talk about Rino. He brings a child to Rino's apartment and his inability to chose between who to deal with when the child runs off underpins his father's view of Rino as a child. This man never goes man to man with Rino in the movie - I strongly believe he never did or will. He just assumes Rino with get it together at some point, with no reference to Rino in real life.

Which is the saddest part of this analysis. Despite how pathetic he is, despite his inability to change and his fear of his sexuality, there is clear reflection of the modern Western male in him. A chubby guy who loves beer, porn and nerdy stuff. A guy who loves women who are beyond his SMV. Most importantly, a guy completely uncomfortable with his sexuality. A man completely un-moored from what being a man really is.

In the end, it is the twilight of men. Men so completely divorced from masculinity that they don't become soft men, but caricatures of themselves. Men who spend their time looking at porn, playing video games and watching sports. Men whom their parents encourage to be more ambitious - but for what cause? There is no cause but themselves - which would be narcissism. Yet, why should they invest outside themselves? All they ever got in return was narcissism...a system that reinforces itself.

Enjoy the decline!

[JimNortonFan]

Your posts get better and better!

ROK worthy.

[Teedub]

I wish I could give you more than 1 rep point.

[eradicator]

The only way "Fatso" would have ended well would have been if Rino read a book Bang Norway and goes on to actually improve himself and then finally after becoming a better person, he learns game instead of just making some superficial changes.

[eradicator]

(05-12-2013 04:13 AM)Teedub Wrote:  

I wish I could give you more than 1 rep point.

I just gave him one as well, thanks for reminding me.

[Hades]

People talk on about narcissists all the time but it's great to see somebody mentioning the inverted narcissist - the codependent. For every socially savvy narcissist you have a codependent narcissistic supply, feeding them.

It would also be good to note that an inverted narcissist can quickly turn into a compensatory narcissist.

[w00t]

Yes Robert Glovers book is very good!
I would also highly recommend "The Manipulated Man" from Esther Vilar. She goes into detail how woman actively manipulate boys from a very young age to get addicted to female approval, so they can later on exploit ressources from them. Its mind-blowing and Glover doesnt really get into that aspect too much. Thats why the counter-balance of a strong father figure is so important for young boys, so he can counteract the manipulations of the mother and the countless females in kindergarten, school and so on. Those two books really compliment each other and can change your life! Absolutely recommended reading material for every man in my humble opinion.

[Valentine]

Brilliantly written. It is fascinating how codependents and narcissists are inextricably linked, both being massively represented in the Game community also.

Reading http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-1/ made me see my own journey as codependent beta, being raised to see value in others (good thing) but never in myself. It then perfectly described my journey into a narcissistic PUA, and now finally to a more balanced person.

Highly recommend everyone read the above link, it is a riveting read and helps you to see dysfunctional patterns of behaviour not only in your own lives, but of the majority of families in this world also.

[Timoteo]

Hmmm...you just made me want to see this movie.

[2Wycked]

Thanks for the positive feedback ya'll. Sorry about the typos - some were pretty glaring.

Anyway, I surprised I forget to mention this post by TLP:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/02/m..._away.html

While Rino does need therapy - on some level he just *has* to change. While you would think pussy would be enough, what guys like this need first before getting in the game is shoring up their insecurities. Aka inner game..

[kbell]

@ 2wycked- I tried reading no more Mr Nice guy before. It got me more depressed than usual and was a bit too close to home. I will have to reread it again since perhaps it covers how to break the trend. I was 1/2 way through the book.

@valetine- This is somewhat similar to how I was raised valentine. Although my parents are still together. Did Rawness ever write part 3 and 4? I couldn't find them.

[Hannibal]

(05-12-2013 04:53 PM)2Wycked Wrote:  

Thanks for the positive feedback ya'll. Sorry about the typos - some were pretty glaring.

Anyway, I surprised I forget to mention this post by TLP:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/02/m..._away.html

While Rino does need therapy - on some level he just *has* to change. While you would think pussy would be enough, what guys like this need first before getting in the game is shoring up their insecurities. Aka inner game..

Did pussy fix Mystery's problems? Hell no.

Actual change requires serious hard work. It's also hard to figure out where to start, especially if you were raised in a toxic environment.

Once you're old enough to be "on your own", it becomes very hard (and expensive) to get any kind of support to fix the problems associated with codependent narcissism. Then most of your progress towards fixing your own problems unravels every time you go home for the holidays, or, god forbid, you have to move back home because of money problems. The first experience you have visiting another friend's house is a mindfuck because it's when you realize that your friend's parents actually give a fuck about their kids.

edit: According to Alone (the last psychiatrist), one of the best things you can do is to pick up something that will help deal with your lack of an identity. Make sure it has short and long term goals along with measurable indicators of progress. If that sounds like weight training or picking up chicks to you, it sure did to me.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I've read the first two paragraphs of your post, thought it sounded interesting and watched it. Now I've read the rest and think that your analysis is spot-on. More comments later, gotta go to work now. Thanks for helping me discover this fascinating story.

[thebassist]

Awesome stuff dude, really enjoyed the read.

If you're gonna be doing any more film or literary analysis I'd be really interested to see what your take is on the Underground Man in Dostoevsky's 'Notes from the Underground.' I thought it was a fascinating read, and I would recommend it to everyone with some patience for reading and interest in psychological analysis.

Keep up the great posts!

[2Wycked]

kbell: http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-3/
http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-4-1/
http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-part-5/
http://therawness.com/reader-letters-1-epilogue/

Frankly, I bumped this because I am reviewing this article RoK. Do note this comment has taken over one day to make just because this laptop eats every comment I make. I had over 2000 word comment eaten. I made sure to regularly copy my next one this morning – when it got eaten again I found that the copy didn’t exist. The copy board had been purged of everything copy I had made this week. Fuck.

Let’s step through why I am having trouble – every post I make I see new connections – to old posts and ones that need to be penned. I don’t have the time to do the necessary research – I need to vastly increase my knowledge base. Plus, I just started talking to a new woman – I resent pussy sometimes.

Let me set out this fucking theory for the third time. We live in a narcissistic society that is female-dominated – by heterosexual females. You see this in feminist circle with the bitter fights over beauty standards, careers and relationships between men and women. Dyke feminists could care less about hetero women getting their dick – they just don’t want to be judged for being ugly and unfeminine. They may try to pretend they care about “female oppression” of beauty standards, but they really just want to change them for their gay benefit. Women’s beauty standards are not just driven by male sexuality, but competition for alphas. Somewhere in the past, some women shaved their armpits, men found it attractive and other women had to start to compensate for the changes in the SMP.

Let’s lay it out – alphas>women>betas>omegas.

Alphas don’t have to be narcissists, but they do have some of those qualities because of being so privileged by female sexual adoration. Betas are thirsty, but let’s set those dudes aside for a minute as with omegas.

What women think they want is equality with alphas. They want to have their money get dicks hard, they want their snark and independence to make alphas salivate to for them. They want to work beside them in high status professions – think Boston Legal and Grey’s Anatomy. They want crowds of fans rocking out to their live music. They want adoring alphas wearing their sports jerseys and come to their games and cheer when hit the trey. The issue here is twofold.

First is the approval they get is beta/omega male and female approval. Women appreciate female approval on a superficial level, but they know it is often fake and is so ubiquitous that is boring and expected. As for betas, let’s set them aside as they are settling material. Omegas are repulsive not just sexually but are a reflection of dark days for the hamster. Every modern female has thrown herself at some retreating alphas, offering up her body as a salve to failing relationships. They will do anything sexually and will often spend way too much time on him or cough up great amounts of money for him. I knew a woman that wanted to save this dude and spent all her saving on rehab. He came back clean for about two months but then went back to drinking and beating her.

This applicable to omegas because the rank desperation reminds them how unattainable alphas often are for them – omegas sometimes a reflection of a woman’s position visa vie alphas. Further, they remind of the lengths they would go for alpha approval.

The other problem is the fact that alphas and men are not sexually turned on my provisioning ability, confidence or social status generally. To me, a good-looking woman who is intellectually interesting is a plus for me. That Sasha Alexander chick from Rizzoli & Isles is hotter than hell to me. Looks have to come first, intelligence after. Going forward, women are often bitter and disappointed because alphas don’t care about their gains.

However, women haven’t become alphas, they became the betas they settle for. Back on track, the other issue is that if women get what they claim and get this approval from alphas, they often lose attraction to the alpha. Imagine some alpha husband wearing WNBA player’s jersey on the regular – where to you think the arc of that relationship is headed? Sure it is possible he has just that much hand, but it isn’t probable.

Let’s talk about SMV as it relates age and weight. The pool of alphas is fairly steady. The marriageable ones the ones that will marry will dwindle quickly. Women at 35 are likely to find a 50 year old divorced alpha with no desire to father more children. Which brings in age. Women are often forced to consider beta males as mates as they age – nothing new here. Same thing with weight gain – it alters the landscape of men who will fuck them and wife them.

Which the narcissistic exposure here. When confronted with the reality that have the mentality of a beta male or omega coupled with their increasing inability even to bed lesser alphas, the hamster spins out of control. You get later in life lesbians, single mothers, women flying to Haiti to bed young black dick. Think Stella Got Her Groove back situation. Unable to come to grips with reality, the hamster runs away.

If it does not, it needs serious attention to make a beta male attractive. Facebook helps as she can claim her dude is different and is a real man because he cuddles with her and confesses his deepest fears to the hamster. What he doesn’t know is he is setting up a codependent/compensatory narcissist relationship with the woman.

The woman will sleep with the beta, romance him and make him feel loved. She acting out the beginning of relationships with alphas before they bounce. The engagement is a huge candy bar for the hamster to gnaw on while the hamster’s blood is starting to boil. It starts to come out as a Bridezilla situation, with beta comforting her and reassuring her that he loves her. She fucking knows that that’s why she is marrying you – she can control you knowing you need her more than she needs you. The wedding will be a calm before the hamster storm that is coming once the honeymoon ends. The will think the wedding stress was the cause of the problems.

The marriage will go downhill quickly. Sex will dry up and she will increasingly critical. She will demand declarations of love and eternal bondage (worship). She will begin to only treat him well in public and being to treat him like dirt in private. She will often use sex as a weapon and physically slap him. Unable to comprehend the problem is his lack of alphatude, he will blame himself, beating himself for not being supportive enough, not listening to her.

Look at that the shit website Askmen.com It is one massive beta indoctrination program. Women need to know men are reading that, in the vain hope alphas will become more beta and betas stay beta so they have a dude to settle with.

Let’s wrap this up. The utilitarian approach women take to men have biological roots, but understand it is blown up by poor American psychology. Alphas have serious privilege and women resent it. The sexual revolution for them has been a large negative. Huge plus in college and right after, but women quickly realize it is bad that society doesn’t force alphas and greater betas into marriage. Notice the constant preening rhetoric of how important the gains are for women. Yay careers! Yay not having to get married! Ha – that is little more than the hamster grooming itself in order to convince themselves that this whole scheme has been a net positive for them. It hasn’t and, as usual, alphas benefit.

[2Wycked]

One of the more fascinating adventures a person can have by themselves is seeing how they viewed the world in a different time. Reviewing fiction provides a great avenue for this as you can pen your take on a particular work and revisit it years later to see what jumped out at you or what attracted your interest.

Recently, I have been dipping in and out of the litany of threads I cobbled together in the spring and summer of 2013. Missing words and questionable grammar aside, it is a great pleasure to see my assumptions, thought patterns and perception of the world as seen through my reviews of movies and TV shows.

As far as Fatso is concerned, I still don't know what exactly animates the spirit of the nice guy. I wholly reject any biological explanation for the phenomena. These soft men are most assuredly products of their historical time. I think this is a good -- but flawed and needlessly wordy -- attempt at trying to split the issue apart. Manosphere mind-rot and pseudo-psychical jargon aside, this was a solid effort.

BTW -- that Robert Glover book is much better at explaining the relationship between modern men and societal phenomena than it is at helping them overcoming the effects of said phenomena.

[K Galt]

I still don't know what exactly animates the spirit of the nice guy.

Fear. Fear of rejection. Fear of failure. Fear of himself and his own masculine desires.

Nice guys "know" that "all men are pigs," but somehow, they are different. See, we want to fuck her like an animal, but we're different from all the other jerks and assholes, as we can keep those desires under control so as to not offend her. All the nice things we do gain her expressed approval, so the nice guy thinks he's on the right track to getting laid.

In other words, a deep desire for female approval stirred in with a nice dose of cognitive dissonance courtesy of the maddonna/whore complex.

The nice guy doesn't want to be that jerk asshole the chicks he desires are always complaining about, but he sure wants to fuck the chicks like those jerk assholes just the same.

Nice guys are like deluded feminists who know they don't have the natural good looks to compete with other hotter chicks, so they embrace uglification (tatoos, crazy haircuts, piercings and fat acceptance) and call it "empowerment" and "individuality." Nice guys are pussies, no they currently can't compete with the more masculine men his desired females are fucking, so he convinces himself that rather than hitting the gym or the dojo and getting stronger and tougher, he'll differentiate himself by being "nice."

Nice guys are guilty of believing women for what they say they want, rather than watching how they act.

But most of all, nice guys are thirsty. Thirsty for simply being in the proximity of a decently attractive female. Thirsty for even just a hug or a stolen glimpse of her lady parts. Thirsty for just being in close proximity to her for any length of time. Thirsty for her confidence and approval for anything (laughing at his jokes, thanking him for doing something for her, etc.)

Every single interaction with her is better than the nothing of female approval or even basic interactions he has been denied from attractive women since he hit puberty. Befriending her is the closest he ever got to the pussy, so even if he's not getting laid for being her emotional tampon, he'll settle for just getting as close to her as possible without actually risking rejection of a direct attempt at hitting on her.

Nice guys want to be more than friends, but they will convince themselves that being her "friend" is better than nothing. They fear direct action, and possible rejection. So he tells himself "I value our friendship too much to risk making a direct pass at her....but if I keep being her great friend, eventually she'll realize what a catch I am and she'll make the first move!"

How do I know all this?

I was this "nice guy" from when I was 13 until I was about 15, when I got my first girlfriend. Being "nice" made that relationship last all of 3 weeks. But it did help me get over the thirst, and I also intuitively figured out being "one of the girls" was not the path to romantic success.

I think for a lot of young boys in the shark tank of public schooling, the nice guy phase is normal - as freshman, you note how all your female classmates are usually dating the juniors and seniors and got no time for you (hypergamy!).

I just think our present era is far more feminized then back when I was in high school in the 80's. It's far easier for a nice guy to get complacent and comfortable with all the digital media distractions and entertainments to keep him pacified and unmotivated during his teen years to get up and improve...so we get far more nice guys who never grow out of it and reach their early 20's with a thirst that has been unquenched and raging for years.