[IntrovertSuccess]

Yeah paleo is non negotiable, it's changed my life for the better.

I ok with eating white potatoes or rice in case that makes a difference.

[Ace]

eat more paleo foods then. it is not a complex problem

[reaper23]

(05-09-2013 02:10 PM)IntrovertSuccess Wrote:  

Yeah paleo is non negotiable, it's changed my life for the better.

I ok with eating white potatoes or rice in case that makes a difference.

brown rice and sweet potato

[TheRookie]

(05-09-2013 03:27 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(05-09-2013 02:10 PM)IntrovertSuccess Wrote:  

Yeah paleo is non negotiable, it's changed my life for the better.

I ok with eating white potatoes or rice in case that makes a difference.

brown rice and sweet potato

Was under the impression brown rice is pretty nasty. I eat white rice:

Quote:

Brown Rice

It’s the “healthier” choice because it still has the bran, with all its nutrients. In a 100g dose, raw brown rice contains:

77 g carb
3.5 g fiber
3 g fat
8 g protein
0.4 mg thiamin (Vitamin B1)
5 mg niacin
1.5 mg iron
143 mg magnesium
223 mg potassium
I mean, even the most ardent zero-carber would have to admit that brown rice sports an impressive nutrient profile (to clarify, that’s 100g raw; 100g cooked is far less impressive). But most of it is bound up with phytic acid and mostly useless to humans. Rats and other rodents produce phytase, which breaks down phytic acid and releases the bound minerals, but until we engineer rat-human hybrids, we’re not enjoying the full potential of brown rice. Another option is to soak and ferment brown rice, as Stephan details here. To me, though, this just sounds like a ton of work, and I worry that the newly unbound minerals will just leech into the soaking/fermenting liquid along with the phytate and the other antinutrients. If you toss the liquid, won’t you be tossing the nutrients, too? Hopefully Stephan can chime in with some clarification.



Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-u...z2Sq7tVUjj

[reaper23]

(05-09-2013 06:07 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

(05-09-2013 03:27 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(05-09-2013 02:10 PM)IntrovertSuccess Wrote:  

Yeah paleo is non negotiable, it's changed my life for the better.

I ok with eating white potatoes or rice in case that makes a difference.

brown rice and sweet potato

Was under the impression brown rice is pretty nasty. I eat white rice:

Quote:

Brown Rice

It’s the “healthier” choice because it still has the bran, with all its nutrients. In a 100g dose, raw brown rice contains:

77 g carb
3.5 g fiber
3 g fat
8 g protein
0.4 mg thiamin (Vitamin B1)
5 mg niacin
1.5 mg iron
143 mg magnesium
223 mg potassium
I mean, even the most ardent zero-carber would have to admit that brown rice sports an impressive nutrient profile (to clarify, that’s 100g raw; 100g cooked is far less impressive). But most of it is bound up with phytic acid and mostly useless to humans. Rats and other rodents produce phytase, which breaks down phytic acid and releases the bound minerals, but until we engineer rat-human hybrids, we’re not enjoying the full potential of brown rice. Another option is to soak and ferment brown rice, as Stephan details here. To me, though, this just sounds like a ton of work, and I worry that the newly unbound minerals will just leech into the soaking/fermenting liquid along with the phytate and the other antinutrients. If you toss the liquid, won’t you be tossing the nutrients, too? Hopefully Stephan can chime in with some clarification.



Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-u...z2Sq7tVUjj

try it. i like it much much better

[IntrovertSuccess]

(05-09-2013 02:34 PM)Ace Wrote:  

eat more paleo foods then. it is not a complex problem

Ok, just thought I was doing something wrong since I'm getting stronger.

[IntrovertSuccess]

I saw the post on ReturnOfKings. The guy who wrote it was mistaken. I'm not doing HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) but HIT (High Intensity Training) like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVhhbC51_3k

I'm not an expert on this stuff, so I have no idea if the ecto - meso - endomorph classifications are scientific or not. All I can say is that people are often surprised by the amount that I eat.

Anyway, I'll start tracking what I eat, possibly add in more paleo-carbs.

Anyone else have any experiences with High Intensity Training?

[Ziltoid]

(05-06-2013 10:17 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

TLDR: there is no bulking foods. You just eat more calories per day. Its hard to tell you how many calories you should eat because its based on your activity level. If you are conscious about how much you are eating just add an extra 500 calorie meal per day.

While I sort of agree with this in theory, it's important to note that there is a huge practical difference between trying to eat 4000 calories a day in tuna and brown rice vs. 4000 calories a day in calorie dense fast food... If you're a person who has trouble gaining weight (ectomorph, tall...), it would be prudent to go for foods that offer a lot of caloric bang for your buck.

[Jaylow]

(05-11-2013 03:05 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

While I sort of agree with this in theory, it's important to note that there is a huge practical difference between trying to eat 4000 calories a day in tuna and brown rice vs. 4000 calories a day in calorie dense fast food... If you're a person who has trouble gaining weight (ectomorph, tall...), it would be prudent to go for foods that offer a lot of caloric bang for your buck.

Me and Giovanni have already debated at length about this. First of all, canned tuna is bad for you because it contains mercury so your arguement is silly off the get go. I bulk and cut eating lots of fast food, it makes zero difference. Being an ectomorph has zero factor on the weight you gain. Go over your daily calorie break even point and you gain weight, go under and you lose weight. This is the only factor.

I can agree with you that fast food has horrible bang for your buck since you could make the burger or sub yourself for 1/3 the cost but it is a huge myth that fast food is "bad/unhealthy".

[Ziltoid]

(05-11-2013 03:13 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

Me and Giovanni have already debated at length about this. First of all, canned tuna is bad for you because it contains mercury so your arguement is silly off the get go. I bulk and cut eating lots of fast food, it makes zero difference. Being an ectomorph has zero factor on the weight you gain. Go over your daily calorie break even point and you gain weight, go under and you lose weight. This is the only factor.

Where your "break even point" (RMR + calories expended through activity) lies is an inexact science that is influenced by situational and genetic factors both known and unknown, as is your ability to gain and lose weight. Even with an optimal diet calories in does not equal calories out, and generally but not always, skinny people will have a harder time gaining weight.
To state that everyone on Earth will gain weight in a uniform and linear manner in response to eating X amount of excess calories makes me question your knowledge of nutrition and human physiology.

And height, by the way, actually is a factor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris-Benedict_equation

(05-11-2013 03:13 PM)Jaylow Wrote:  

I can agree with you that fast food has horrible bang for your buck since you could make the burger or sub yourself for 1/3 the cost but it is a huge myth that fast food is "bad/unhealthy".

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying... So called "healthy" clean calories like lean meats and whole grains/greens are very filling and satiating while simultaneously not offering a very high caloric payload. For those who have difficulty gaining weight, this is a problem. I was actually advocating fast food, in a way, because it makes it considerably easier to consume excess calories. But, as you said, it's expensive.

[Jaylow]

Someone that has been skinny their entire life will have a hard time gaining weight the exact same way that someone who has been obese their entire lives will have a hard time losing weight. It has nothing to do with calories, it has to do with the way they conditioned their eating habits over time.

For simplicity reasons lets say skinny dudes calorie break even point every day was 1800 calories. Lets say his work and hobbies on average burn 500 calories a day. His calorie breakeven point is now 2300. If he goes under 2300 a day he will lose weight, if he goes over 2300 calories he gains weight. This is an exact science and has nothing to do with being an ectomorph or eating tuna and rice vs mcdonalds.

[Ziltoid]

And if every human being on the planet had the exact same metabolism, you'd be correct.

[sixsix]

(05-09-2013 10:43 AM)IntrovertSuccess Wrote:  

I'm between 28 - 32, classic skinny ectomorph, 1.8m tall. Did various kinds of sports in the past but could never stick to weight training cause the routines the gym trainers gave me lasted too long and bored me (1 hour+).

But now I've been working a HIT programme for about 2 months with a trainer on a special HIT workout machine. I train twice a week since I seem to be recovering well in between training sessions. Although I don't know exactly how much I've been pulling / pushing / lifting according to my trainer I've been improving consistently. (I don't want to know the numbers as I'd rather focus on doing my best and pushing until failure.)

Everything seems to be going great except I'm not gaining weight at all. I literally weigh the same as I did before I started but I'm a lot stronger. My thighs and arms feel a little bigger but the scales say I'm the same.

My trainer says that there's going to be a limit to how I'm going to look because of my body type. While I don't have delusions of being a body-builder I was hoping I could at least get to some kind of bruce-lee, surfer body type I think it's been described as lean fit.

I must be eating enough other wise I wouldn't be getting stronger all the time, right? (I eat Paleo style btw?)

Or is it just too soon to worry about that? We've just started splitting the routines into a whole body and lower workout and in a couple of weeks we'll expand to 3 different workouts, whole body, upper and lower.

Is my dream of becoming lean / fit on HIT + Paleo unrealistic as an ectomorph or is it too soon to be worrying about it?

Don't mistake my harshness for meanness, because this response is to help you.

1. You don't want to train for more than an hour per session.
2. You train twice per week.

So at the very most you're investing 1.19% of your time into lifting weights.

3. You are eating paleo and this is non negotiable.

Healthy diet, I believe, but for cutting weight, being ripped and definitely not for becoming bigger.

4. You are working out on a fucking machine.

How paleo is that? I'll tell you: it is not. Lifting free weights is cavemen.

5. You believe you're an ectomorph, though you admit not knowing about its scientific validity.

6. You want to get bigger, and say you're not getting bigger. Then, when someone says you're not reaching your goals in this manner, you reply: "In what sense?"

7. When you train, you train in such a way (HIT) one would suspect you're trying to remain small. Quick, much reps.

Your personal trainer is a retard if he thinks that's an anabolic (muscle-inducing) work out.

8. You don't even know how much weight you lift... One a fucking machine.

My take on your situation:

You're a skinny adult male and will remain skinny if you continue like this. If you wanna get bigger, you should eat more (still possible on paleo diet) and train four times a week. Drop this personal trainer and get one that can teach you some weightlifting/powerlifting. 30-45 minutes sessions with the bar and dumbbells. Much weight and a few sets of 5-8 reps. Read books and blogs on this subject matter: you're an introvert, right? Don't be dependent on people that don't know anything.

And by the way, this forum has many guys that are big and know a thing or two and you manage to ask the d*mbest guy for advice.

Train (example):

Monday and Thursday
Back Squat: 5 sets of 5 reps
Bench press: 5 sets of 5 reps
Deadlift: 3 sets of 5 reps

Tuesday and Friday
Back Squat: 5 sets of 5 reps
Military press: 5 sets of 5 reps
Deadlift: 3 sets of 5 reps

Don't forget to do warm up sets, naturally.

Food (example):
Paleo as fuck.

Two protein shakes (2 x 50 g): 350 kcal (90 g of protein)
Whole Grilled: 1200 kcal (162 g of protein and 53 g of delicious fat)
10 hard boiled eggs: 780 kcal (19 g of protein and 53 g of fat)
50 g of bacon: 270 kcal (63 g of protein and 21 g of fat)
100 g of almonds: 575 kcal (21 g of protein and 49 g of fat)
50 g of peanuts: 300 kcal (13 g of protein and 25 g of fat)
50 g of walnuts: 333 kcal (8 g of protein and 33 g of fat)

Total: 3800 kcal, 376 grams of protein and 234 grams of fat.

Add a load of veggies, berries and what not.
Add some sweet patotoes and whatever.
Butter.

BAM! You're big.

[reaper23]

This guy (among many others):



says:

[sixsix]

(05-11-2013 05:57 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

This guy (among many others):



says:

Yeah, he says you should eat 6 foods. The rest is unnecessary.

Egg Whites
Oatmeal
Tuna
Bananas
Chicken Breast
Brown Rice

But that's bullshit.

It works for him, because he takes exogenous steroid hormones.

If you don't wanna juice, you should eat (animal) fats.
Why? Because cholesterol is the precursor of all steroid hormones, including testosterone.
You need fat in your diet to function normally, and especially to get big.

[IntrovertSuccess]

(05-11-2013 05:45 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

Don't mistake my harshness for meanness, because this response is to help you.

BAM! You're big.

Hey thanks for this detailed response. I'll certainly take this into consideration. One thing that can be said of me is that once I find something that works I stick to it. I'm still in the phase of finding what works for me (previous effort were hampered by my non-paleo 'healthy diet').

One thing I need to correct you about. HIT is not high reps. I believe the max time actually doing a particular exercise is 1.5 - 2 minutes (hard to gauge because I'm so concentrated on the effort. I think I'm doing 5 - 10 reps before failure.

The reason I don't know what I'm lifting is because I want to focus on giving maximum effort in the moment rather than fixating on numbers. I leave that for the trainer to worry about.

Anyway, I'm not attached to this training method, just something that grabbed my interest and thought it would be a good way to get started.

[reaper23]

(05-11-2013 06:30 PM)sixsix Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 05:57 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

This guy (among many others):



says:

Yeah, he says you should eat 6 foods. The rest is unnecessary.

Egg Whites
Oatmeal
Tuna
Bananas
Chicken Breast
Brown Rice

But that's bullshit.

It works for him, because he takes exogenous steroid hormones.

If you don't wanna juice, you should eat (animal) fats.
Why? Because cholesterol is the precursor of all steroid hormones, including testosterone.
You need fat in your diet to function normally, and especially to get big.

yes, to be fair, his question was in the context of being lean, not bulking up, which i know is the topic of this discussion. the 6 foods that work thing is funny though and they really do work. its basically all I eat right now minus the tuna (salmon instead) and i'm cutting fat like crazy.


here is my basic diet for cutting and then i'll show you what to do for a lean bulk


oats/whey/banana
brown rice / chicken
brown rice / cod
brown rice / salmon
sweet potato / chicken

right? easy.

oats/whey/banana/peanut butter
brown rice / chicken / avocado
brown rice / cod / olive oil
brown rice / salmon / grass-fed butter
sweet potato / grass fed beef / grass-fed butter
+a couple of handfuls of almonds/cashews throughout the day
maybe a glass of grass-fed milk also

that'll do it.

there is no need to go all crazy with eating 6000 calories unless you want to get fat too

[WanderingSoul]

This thread is a great example of why you should get your workout/nutrition advice from a different forum.

[Alpha Mind]

(05-06-2013 09:56 PM)TheBlackNarwhal Wrote:  

I've been working out and training for a solid year, although it's been mixed with weight training and conditioning for wrestling. I'm 6'3, 175lbs average and 9-10% body fat. Now, If I was in the 5"10-5"11 range I'd look bulky as shit, but since I'm not I tend to look skinnier to some people.

Any workouts that would efficiently add mass on my long frame, and any foods that put on good weight fast?

I'm 6'4, used to weight 185. Now hanging out around 195-200, depending on the day.

I struggled with adding and maintaining muscle for quite some time.

The single best solution was buying a crockpot and making a bunch of food for the week.

Also, toy with making mashed sweet potatoes. Chop up a bunch of walnuts, toss them in with some cinnamon, and a tad of (real) maple syrup or molasses to taste. Easy, cheap, and is an awesome post-lift meal.

I also found that eating a lot of water-rich vegetables improved recovery time and also increases your water intake. Sliced cucumbers w/hummus is an easy one. Still eat 2 cucumbers per day like that.

Eat clean and lift consistently. It'll happen if you keep it up.