[tomtud]

(04-23-2013 12:45 AM)cycliss Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 12:29 AM)megatron Wrote:  

We have to get out our military out of the middle east (and every country for that matter). This will never happen, but it would eliminate Muslim hatred and terrorist attacks on us.

Nonetheless, Islam is not a religion of peace. What other religion boasts a prophet who killed thousands of people? Not Judaism or Christianity. Jesus was a pacifist and forgiver. Muhummad was a warlord.

Read some Old Testament. And the history of the Crusades... Christianity isn't any better.

The history of the caliphate is just as barbaric. Today, the threat is not from Christianity. Politics aside, foreign policies etc. Islam just doesn't gel well with secular beliefs.

[WestIndianArchie]

I've never understood this boards hatred of Islam.
Most of the political BS y'all spit can be found in the Middle East.

What religion and culture
- keeps their women covered up and chaste, with the penalty of death
- rewards beta behavior by only allowing marriage when a man can afford a bride
- doesn't let women drive or vote
- allows a man up to 4 wives
- punishes criminals with an eye for an eye
- punishes adultery in men with a fine, and for women with death

You can run down the grievances that folks have with Western Women and Western Society and find that Islam pretty much solves most if not all of those problems.

Would you rather look for a woman who can be found drinking and carousing, and full of western feminist ideology, ready to divorce you at the drop of a hat cause her emotional needs aren't being met

or would you prefer a woman who knows her place is in the home and with children, whose society and culture FORCE her to submit to a man, lest she find herself out in the streets destitute and poor?

You just want to dominate a woman in bed, but no other place?
You'd prefer blonde blowjobs for 30 minutes that come with 23 and half hours of subjugation, and running from countries so that you are not under a stiletto heel?

And it's not like your hatred of Islam is directly correlated to your embrace of Christianity (lol)

You prefer the material opulence and life of convenience of the West, to simple, masculine, and austere life of Muslims of the Mid East. You'd prefer to life bars of steel instead of put up posts to build a house?

Your schizophrenia is baffling.

WIA

[Teedub]

^ There's a medium somewhere between the two I guess. I certainly wouldn't want to live in Saudi. As an atheist I wouldn't be 'tolerated' over there, and I wouldn't want to live under a theocracy that recognizes the validity of dark age bullshit like witchcraft. I want to live in a secular country, and truth be told, it does seem to be Islam and Islam alone that is so hostile to this. Whether this comes from the unchangeable aspect of the Quran I don't know, but I suspect it is.

I don't care if women drive, or vote (although I do understand the negatives it has brought) etc. I'd rather an educated, productive female voted than some fucking idiot bloke, who just votes who his mates told him to vote for etc.

I just wish women didn't have free reign to get so fucking fat. That is pretty much my only huge gripe. Kuwait is Muslim, and they've got the worst obesity rates in the world, so it isn't helping solve that problem. I always find that quite funny, how deep south America is the most religious, and the fattest, but isn't one of the ten commandments against greed/gluttony?

Edit - Deadly sins, and it was for both greed AND gluttony.

[MikeCF]

(04-23-2013 12:49 AM)j r Wrote:  

Come on. You sound like a cartoon character.

Tenderman is a FoxNews caricature.

Except he really exists.

Foreign policy is a complicated subject. He can distill it into a few sound bites, though, which is all neocons and other right wing nutjobs can do.

By the way, what does he and other Israel apologists think of the U.S.S. Liberty incident?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

That might be a silly question, since I used the word think.

We're being bombed by our Israeli allies and bombed by Muslim terrorists.

In my view we should let them kill each other off.

[tomtud]

(04-23-2013 11:39 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

I've never understood this boards hatred of Islam. ---- it's not hatred, it's just criticism. Islam claims to be the final religion and that it claims its book to be the word of God. You don't need anything else. Well, for something making such extravagant claims, criticism, suspicion and open dialogue should be encouraged and not taken as negativity. If it is true then, criticism should not offend because after all it's the truth. Too bad for you if you don't believe mentality should reign. But it doesn't.
Most of the political BS y'all spit can be found in the Middle East. --- I live in the Middle East , politics is a big mess here too.

What religion and culture
- keeps their women covered up and chaste, with the penalty of death---- chaste,,,,I beg to differ. You want to smell my fingers? Covered is more linked to jealousy and property.
- rewards beta behavior by only allowing marriage when a man can afford a bride-- villagers yes,,,,but in cities no.
- doesn't let women drive or vote--- Saudi Arabia, but law is changing.
- allows a man up to 4 wives---- very rare. Allowed Mohammed as many as he wanted. Similar to the Utah cults where the leaders ex. Jessops etc, can have many wives while others not the same.
- punishes criminals with an eye for an eye---- not 100% true. In Saudi Arabia you can offer blood money. Pay the victims family money and be set free.
- punishes adultery in men with a fine, and for women with death---- no comment.

You can run down the grievances that folks have with Western Women and Western Society and find that Islam pretty much solves most if not all of those problems. ----- no it doesn't. There are good and bad points to both societies.

Would you rather look for a woman who can be found drinking and carousing, and full of western feminist ideology, ready to divorce you at the drop of a hat cause her emotional needs aren't being met. ---- who cares about her emotionl needs. That is her problem. If she doesn't orgasm I don't care. As long as I get off, I am good. She should worry about me, not the other way.

or would you prefer a woman who knows her place is in the home and with children, whose society and culture FORCE her to submit to a man, lest she find herself out in the streets destitute and poor? ---- same can be said of Europe 30 years ago. However, being of one faith does not make you a good wife or a good mother. There are good women of all faiths. However, middle eastern culture compared to western culture is more family based. But it is changing.

You just want to dominate a woman in bed, but no other place? ---- competition?????
You'd prefer blonde blowjobs for 30 minutes that come with 23 and half hours of subjugation, and running from countries so that you are not under a stiletto heel?

And it's not like your hatred of Islam is directly correlated to your embrace of Christianity (lol) ---- criticism of religions. Start a thread about Christianity nd I will post a criticsm or two about it, Muslims have a hard time taking criticsm about their faith because they are taught to not question it. Hatred is a strong word. Personally, I don't hate it if you were to ask. It's not for me. Nor is religion in general.

You prefer the material opulence and life of convenience of the West, to simple, masculine, and austere life of Muslims of the Mid East. You'd prefer to life bars of steel instead of put up posts to build a house?----- you can have a simple life anywhere in the world.

Your schizophrenia is baffling. ---- insulting comment. Not sure if directed at me, but again, you are bringing another topic Christianity into a thread talking about Islam. Start a thread about Christianity if you want. I want to close with this,,,,there are religious zealots and fundamentalists from all faiths. TODAY our concern is Islam. Years ago Christianity could be grouped here as well. But today, pertaining to western issues, Islam is a concern. Not from others embracing it,,but from those embracing the notion to kill, terrorize others who don't share their same views.

WIA

[Barada22]

The Middle East has been at war forever (as has most of the world, but that area more so). No one is responsible for it except the people there. They can claim to hate whatever country for whatever reason but the fact remains that they will hate someone no matter what. The who does not matter. Being involved in that area of the world is a death sentence for anyone who has gotten involved there. I say let them all fight to the death and see who comes out alive.

[kerouac]

Europe has also been at war "forever." The only reason Europe and North America have calmed down is because of the understanding of economic interdependence and trade.

If the middle east were still The Ottoman Empire, Persia, and the other macro states, do you think you would be hearing about the Israeli Arab crisis?

The British went to the Middle East and split apart these countries for their own benefit, and now you have these countries that didn't exist split between ethnic lines fighting each other because families want to claim their booty.

The "Middle East" is a problem created by the West, and all the West has to say about it is "Let them bomb each other." It's bullshit.

[MikeinMKE]

(04-23-2013 10:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 09:20 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I'm sorry you and your family had to live through the thread of IRA terrorists, but honestly... those acts of terror were basically a small moment in time/history. More of an aberration than a major terrorist movement. To compare that movement to today's militant Islam is apples to oranges (to put it mildly). I mean, there were a swath of fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics in the 80's and early 90's, but I doubt that abortion doctors/nurses drive to work in fear these days - not even 20 years removed from the bulk of the attacks. That shit passed (relatively) quickly. Sure there might be an isolated incident once every 10 years, but by and large there is no organized movement.

Must rank highly on RVF's most idiotic posts. 3600 people dying in 30 continuous years of terrorist attacks may seem an aberration to you, but that's the though process of idiots, especially your last line, which ironically corresponds to the islamic attacks on american soil. From 1993 to 2001 to 2013..

Sorry, but 30 years is nothing in the grand scheme of history. To compare Irish Catholics in a 30 year span to militant Islamists is pretty short-sighted. I think you're putting too much weight in the Irish/British tensions seeing as you grew up in that world (either that, or you're displaying political correctness to a fault). It's a blip on the radar of mankind. Militant Islam is a far greater danger - perhaps the defining danger of the 21st century thus far.

[Teedub]

I just watched the clip of Bill Maher. There is zero doubt he won that 'debate'. He just challenged the orthodoxy and the other guy (and most of the audience) didn't really know what to say as they knew he was right. He didn't say anything bad, or anything out of the ordinary (in people's minds - thought crime remember), Islam IS the only religion in the modern day that will kill you for 'offending' it.

Funny really, and this applies to all religious people who get offended on behalf of Gods, Prophets etc... Surely if they're so supernaturally powerful they'd be more than able to defend themselves, and retaliate. How? By blowing up innocent runners in Boston according to everyone's favorite Christian church, the 'Westboro Baptist Church'.... Religion is nuts and Dawkins is right, people who blindly believe that shit are suffering a mental delusion.

[Barada22]

The ethnic fighting was already happening, whether or not there were country lines drawn has no effect. And the economic freedom is an exact result of the people, no one has forced these people to hate each other, they just inherently do. Blowing people up does not create freedom, violence begets violence. The Middle East is lucky that all western countries are too pussified to just blow them off the map. And yes, the western response is to just let them fight it out because that is what should have been done in the first place.

And even if I accept the premise that it is the west's fault, so what? If any country invades another one or one people attack another someone will win while another loses. The problem is that the western governments are too stupid to leave the countries in a way that is sustainable. It's just a vicious cycle that will never end in that region of the world.

[renotime]

(04-23-2013 03:08 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

You guys blaming the US for muslim acts of terror are real cute with your reasons. But it doesn't account for the historical evidence of muslims trying to take over the world. Look at just the last 10 years of every major conflict around the world and you will see that in most of these conflicts MUSLIMS are behind it.

When did Muslims try to take over the world? I don't think any Muslim nation has come close to taking over the world. Maybe and empire here or there.

Cyrus the Great, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and Hitler weren't Muslims.

And Great Britain has colonized more than any nation on this earth. And when that goes down heavy violence has ensued with countries that aren't even muslim. Go figure.

[AFspecOps]

I read this quote just today:

Islam is a political religion; the idea of a separation of Mosque and State is unheard of in the Muslim world. Islam has a doctrine of warfare, Jihad, which is fought in order to establish Islamic Law, which is, by nature, totalitarian. Sharia Law calls for, among other things: the dehumanization of women; the flogging/stoning/killing of adulterers; and the killing of homosexuals, apostates and critics of Islam. All of this is part of orthodox Islam, not some “extremist” form of it. If jihadists were actually “perverting a great religion,” Muslims would have been able to discredit them on Islamic grounds and they would have done so by now. The reason they can’t is because jihadists are acting according to the words of Allah.

[GameTheory]

(04-23-2013 12:49 AM)j r Wrote:  

[...]

You do know the history of the Middle East right? The western powers have been meddling in the region since the days of the Ottoman empire. Does that mean that everything is America's fault? No. There are plenty of problems that these countries could be addressing and aren't. That being said, the United States has overthrown democratically elected governments that we just didn't like. The Unites States has supported dictators like Saddam Hussein and Mubarak. The United States is killing civillians in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Yemen with drones. These are just facts.

the West has been "liberating" the Middle East for centuries...

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...le1988.htm

[bojangles]

(04-23-2013 01:27 PM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 10:02 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(04-23-2013 09:20 AM)MikeinMKE Wrote:  

I'm sorry you and your family had to live through the thread of IRA terrorists, but honestly... those acts of terror were basically a small moment in time/history. More of an aberration than a major terrorist movement. To compare that movement to today's militant Islam is apples to oranges (to put it mildly). I mean, there were a swath of fundamentalist Christians bombing abortion clinics in the 80's and early 90's, but I doubt that abortion doctors/nurses drive to work in fear these days - not even 20 years removed from the bulk of the attacks. That shit passed (relatively) quickly. Sure there might be an isolated incident once every 10 years, but by and large there is no organized movement.

Must rank highly on RVF's most idiotic posts. 3600 people dying in 30 continuous years of terrorist attacks may seem an aberration to you, but that's the though process of idiots, especially your last line, which ironically corresponds to the islamic attacks on american soil. From 1993 to 2001 to 2013..

Sorry, but 30 years is nothing in the grand scheme of history. To compare Irish Catholics in a 30 year span to militant Islamists is pretty short-sighted. I think you're putting too much weight in the Irish/British tensions seeing as you grew up in that world (either that, or you're displaying political correctness to a fault). It's a blip on the radar of mankind. Militant Islam is a far greater danger - perhaps the defining danger of the 21st century thus far.

well it's much more than 20 years, which has how long islamists have been causing you problems. So I have no idea what the fuck your point is.
Before the first WTC bombing, you guys were supporting these cunts, you guys gave them the funding and weapons to turn on your ass.

[Teedub]

I think the debate is whether something within Islam is itself responsible for the acts some of it's followers do. I think there is and the quote above is very apt.

"Islam is a political religion; the idea of a separation of Mosque and State is unheard of in the Muslim world. Islam has a doctrine of warfare, Jihad, which is fought in order to establish Islamic Law, which is, by nature, totalitarian. Sharia Law calls for, among other things: the dehumanization of women; the flogging/stoning/killing of adulterers; and the killing of homosexuals, apostates and critics of Islam. All of this is part of orthodox Islam, not some “extremist” form of it. If jihadists were actually “perverting a great religion,” Muslims would have been able to discredit them on Islamic grounds and they would have done so by now. The reason they can’t is because jihadists are acting according to the words of Allah."