[renotime]

(04-22-2013 01:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:45 PM)Fitzgerald Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:31 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 11:34 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Citizen Kane was alright. The Big Lebowski was a let down, the dude is a cool character and there are some funny scenes but the majority of the movie is just straight boring. Same with Deliverance, but deliverance was at least controversial given its release date.

The Big Lebowski and the Coen Brothers are awesome. You're one of the first people I've ever heard say that the Big Lebowski was a let down.

I laugh all the way through Lebowski, even the first time I saw it. Haven't seen all the Coen flicks, but O Brother is awesome as well.

You should check out Fargo if you haven't already. Very different than The Big Lebowski. It's pretty dark, but there are so many cleaver elements to that film. It's probably my favorite of their movies. Raising Arizona was also great. I like just about everything they make, though I had a hard time getting through "A Serious Man" and "Barton Fink" was pretty out there but still pretty good. I still haven't seen Intolerable Cruelty. It looked like it may be a little chick flicky to me.

Another great movie by the Coens is Miller's Crossing. Great gangster flick that not many people have seen.

[Blaster]

Citizen Kane is a masterpiece of cinematic storytelling. "Greatest Movie Ever" is silly. There are 85 films to have won the "Best Picture" Oscar alone. But it's still a masterpiece.

The dialog is excellent and the acting is top-notch, but what sets the movie apart is that nearly every shot dense with relevant content. Every second matters and no part of the screen is wasted.

Do an image search for "shot composition in citizen kane" and you'll see dozens of compelling, artistic images.

[Katatonic]

The most impressive thing about Citizen Kane was that Welles was only 25 when he made it. I was never a big fan of the movie, but I can definitely respect his accomplishment. Film, like most things in life is completely subjective.

I believe "Dead Man", "Touchez Pas Au Grisbi", "The Wages of Fear", "There Will Be Blood", anything by Jean-Pierre Melville, and many others are way better than "Citizen Kane". A lot of "experts" though, would say I'm full of shit.

Edit: "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" also blows it out of the water IMO,

[Blaster]

   

Everything in this shot is relevant: the expressions of the father, the mother, and the banker. Kane playing in the background. The papers on the desk sealing his fate.


   

In this one, Kane has whispered the word "Rosebud" and dropped this snowglobe to the ground, where it breaks. The scene is shot through the perspective of the broken globe as you see the nurse enter. The cabin and snow is a reference to his childhood playing in the snow, as in the picture above. The shot's angle and distortion helps provide a detached, out-of-body perspective, since Kane has just died; in addition to being unique and interesting all by itself.

These are just two famous examples, the reason why this movie is held in such high regard by film students is that you can go through the entire movie doing analysis like this.

[InternationPlayboy]

(04-22-2013 02:30 PM)renotime Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:52 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:45 PM)Fitzgerald Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:31 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 11:34 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Citizen Kane was alright. The Big Lebowski was a let down, the dude is a cool character and there are some funny scenes but the majority of the movie is just straight boring. Same with Deliverance, but deliverance was at least controversial given its release date.

The Big Lebowski and the Coen Brothers are awesome. You're one of the first people I've ever heard say that the Big Lebowski was a let down.

I laugh all the way through Lebowski, even the first time I saw it. Haven't seen all the Coen flicks, but O Brother is awesome as well.

You should check out Fargo if you haven't already. Very different than The Big Lebowski. It's pretty dark, but there are so many cleaver elements to that film. It's probably my favorite of their movies. Raising Arizona was also great. I like just about everything they make, though I had a hard time getting through "A Serious Man" and "Barton Fink" was pretty out there but still pretty good. I still haven't seen Intolerable Cruelty. It looked like it may be a little chick flicky to me.

Another great movie by the Coens is Miller's Crossing. Great gangster flick that not many people have seen.

Yep, great flick as well. I wouldn't put it at casino or scarf ace gangster flick, but still definitely a good movie.

[that guy]

This is just sad. Part of what makes it a great film is the time it was made. Are you aware of any of them innovations or new techniques the film introduced? How do you define artistic? When a person trips on over a chair I laugh and am entertained, does that mean its artistic? Some of these negative comments are just so base and lacking of any thought or depth. There are some very intelligent members on this board but after reading some of these comments from particular members it would be nice if there was a ignore feature or some kind of marker I could place on these individual users so that I would never accidentally take advice from these people in the future.

[HotLava]

You need to consider Citizen Kane in the context of the time that it was released. If you watch other movies of the era, such as Casablanca, it becomes apparent that the film is a work of technical genius. The deep focus photography has been mentioned in the thread before. Another innovation was a method to pull the camera through physical objects (as in the El Rancho scene with Susan Alexander). Many of the large sets, such as the campaign speech are illusions. I think Orson Welles was completely new to film and basically made up some of these techniques. Listen to Roger Eberts commentary for an analysis of some of these techniques.

I think most people would agree that the film is amazing in a technical sense for it's time. Then again, so was Metropolis. I agree that the story is good, but hardly gripping or among the best.

Overall, I have to agree that it's not "the best movie of all time." However, it should be appreciated as a great work of art.

[Blaster]

Quote:

You need to consider Citizen Kane in the context of the time that it was released.

When you do, it's not hard to make a case that the film was extraordinary. But I would argue that it still stands up remarkably well even without reference to its era. Because let's be honest, the vast majority of movie viewers really do not care about the technical details of the special effects. Indeed the whole point of special effects is to trick you into not noticing they are there, lest the 4th wall be broken.

Whether one finds the story interesting is partly a matter of taste. It's primarily a character study, which by definition means the plot takes a back seat to characterization. The plot framework is oriented around revealing interesting details about the subject. Often, whether any one person enjoys the story depends on how interesting they find the character chosen, regardless of how artistic the movie might be. Citizen Kane vs Scarface vs Amadeus vs Forrest Gump vs The Big Lebowski-- you can't sketch them all in the same movie and obviously different people will be drawn to different characters.

And of course, some movies are less purely character studies than others. The Big Lebowski is also a farce and Scarface is also a crime drama. Gump and Kane are pretty much just biopics/character pieces.

[OGNorCal707]

I thought Citizen Cane was boring as hell, and I'm unashamed to say I didn't like it. I consider myself a "movie nerd", but I think it's trendy for people to act like Citizen Cane is the "greatest movie ever", when in reality I think most people would agree that there are dozens of better films. I can see how maybe it was great for it's time, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to watch it again today.

[Teedub]

(04-22-2013 12:56 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Yeah - Terminator 2 is better than Citizen Kane. As is the first Terminator. Didn't mention that one though because I wanted to point out some movies from the past 20 or so years.

Terminator 2 is a masterful piece of cinema. Technically, it still holds up now, it was years and years beyond anything else from that time. Yeah it has it's cheesy bits, as do all Cameron's films. As his writing isn't as good as his directing and he has a penchant for 'corn', but not in the Michael Bay sense. However as a standalone film, or taken as a double with the original, it is almost a perfect movie, or two almost perfect movies.

(04-22-2013 01:24 PM)cardguy Wrote:  

Film critics are dumb. Alot of the best movies got average reviews when they first came out. Casino, The Big Lebowski, The Man Who Wasn't There, Fight Club and The Matrix all come to mind.

Taxi Driver got negative reviews, I think Raging Bull did too. Yet those same critics put them on 'Film of the decade' lists when they realized just how out of whack they were with the audience consensus. Not that that is always a good thing, as then dumb stuff like Bad Boys 2 would be getting Oscars but you know what I mean.

[renotime]

Fight Club and The Matrix got great reviews.

[bojangles]

Who said it was the best movie ever?

[MHaes]

Why?

Shot composition and compilling, mattes, miniature models, etc.

[Lazarus]

(04-22-2013 01:31 PM)InternationPlayboy Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 11:34 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

Citizen Kane was alright. The Big Lebowski was a let down, the dude is a cool character and there are some funny scenes but the majority of the movie is just straight boring. Same with Deliverance, but deliverance was at least controversial given its release date.

The Big Lebowski and the Coen Brothers are awesome. You're one of the first people I've ever heard say that the Big Lebowski was a let down.

Consider me one of the second. I found The Big Lebowski boring.

(04-22-2013 03:13 PM)Katatonic Wrote:  

The most impressive thing about Citizen Kane was that Welles was only 25 when he made it. I was never a big fan of the movie, but I can definitely respect his accomplishment. Film, like most things in life is completely subjective.

I believe "Dead Man", "Touchez Pas Au Grisbi", "The Wages of Fear", "There Will Be Blood", anything by Jean-Pierre Melville, and many others are way better than "Citizen Kane". A lot of "experts" though, would say I'm full of shit.

Edit: "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" also blows it out of the water IMO,

(04-22-2013 09:35 PM)HotLava Wrote:  

You need to consider Citizen Kane in the context of the time that it was released. If you watch other movies of the era, such as Casablanca, it becomes apparent that the film is a work of technical genius. The deep focus photography has been mentioned in the thread before. Another innovation was a method to pull the camera through physical objects (as in the El Rancho scene with Susan Alexander). Many of the large sets, such as the campaign speech are illusions. I think Orson Welles was completely new to film and basically made up some of these techniques. Listen to Roger Eberts commentary for an analysis of some of these techniques.

I think most people would agree that the film is amazing in a technical sense for it's time. Then again, so was Metropolis. I agree that the story is good, but hardly gripping or among the best.

Overall, I have to agree that it's not "the best movie of all time." However, it should be appreciated as a great work of art.

I believe Casablanca stands the test if time better than Citizen Kane.

[liberman]

(04-23-2013 01:34 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I thought Citizen Cane was boring as hell, and I'm unashamed to say I didn't like it. I consider myself a "movie nerd", but I think it's trendy for people to act like Citizen Cane is the "greatest movie ever", when in reality I think most people would agree that there are dozens of better films. I can see how maybe it was great for it's time, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to watch it again today.

Some people can really love a movie whilst others shrugged it off or downright hated it. Sometimes the reason for a person hating a movie is obvious (Rose O’Donnell Fight Club)
One of my friends loves "The Godfather” but I personally found it too long and boring. Likewise when I showed him my favorite movie “Dr Strangelove” he thought it was just average.

[Vitriol]

(04-22-2013 01:22 PM)Fitzgerald Wrote:  

Citizen Kane is the best movie ever because a bunch of old fogeys said it was.

Same reason why Bob Dylan is the greatest musician of all time.

[Chunnel]

(04-23-2013 07:04 AM)Vitriol Wrote:  

(04-22-2013 01:22 PM)Fitzgerald Wrote:  

Citizen Kane is the best movie ever because a bunch of old fogeys said it was.

Same reason why Bob Dylan is the greatest musician of all time.

obviously for a different thread but no one was more instrumental or influential at combining lyricism and musical production than Dylan.

The Beatles were still covering and writing fluff songs till they took a puff out of Dylan's peace pipe; then out comes Rubber Soul, Revolver, and Sgt. Pepper's.


And for the topic, Citizen Kane deserves its place in the upper echelons of film masterpieces, but to think that it sits at the top after 70+ years is foolish. Its almost a slap in the face to those directors influenced by Welle's who took his ideas; then tweaked, modernized, and possibly perfected them.

[ColSpanker]

Two words:
Big Screen.
See it on a big screen (35mm print goddammit!) and you will understand the power this movie holds. I didn't have much of an opinion of it until I had the opportunity to watch it at an arthouse cinema in 1977.
At which point it blew me out of my seat.
Seriously, some movies have to be seen in their original context.
Even a 55 inch Sony TV doesn't match it.

[cardguy]

This is really cool. It is David Copperfield adapting an unusual magic trick that Orson Welles filmed for his friends when he was in his thirties. It is brilliantly done...

[Roadrunner]

Citizen Kane is not the best movie ever and I haven't heard of anyone claiming it to be. The title of the Greatest movie ever, on the other hand, is something that Citizen Kane can conceivably lay it's hands on and that is what it is acclaimed to be. What does the Greatest mean? It means the most influential. All movies after Kane have been distinctly different from the movies before Kane and that is what it means to be Great.

[eradicator]

(04-23-2013 03:53 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

Who said it was the best movie ever?

The American Film Institute.

http://www.afi.com/100Years/movies10.aspx

(04-22-2013 12:38 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

What were the technical innovations used in Citizen Kane?

Most of it was already mentioned, welles did some interesting things with camera angles like digging a hole and having the cameraman in the hole.


As for It's a wonderful life, I just found the ending to be completely unrealistic- people liked the jimmy stewart character so they all give him money? wtf I don't really have a problem with an angel saving him.

It's still a movie you can watch and feel good afterwards from watching it.

[Teutatis]

Citizen Kane was fucking great, I actually think it's one of the best movies ever made.

[Gmac]

Avatar shouldn't be on a list of "best" anything. Trash. People will label anything these days...

[Brodiaga]

To me, the best movie is the motherfucking Last Tango in Paris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Tango_in_Paris

I watched it when i was too young to get a hard on and appreciate the motherfucka. I remember Marlon Brando take a piece of butter, stick it up the chick's ass and then stick his dick up there. Priceless! I haven't watched the move since, it's too fucking sexual. I think i'll watch it next time when I become and old fuck and my dick stops working.

[BortimusPrime]

The true best movie ever was the Tom Green movie "Freddy got Fingered". It tells the eternal story of a man finally learning to rebel against his father by wielding an elephant's penis like a fire hose and spraying him with semen. By far a much more high-minded and intellectual allegory than any of this silly Rosebud tripe.