[Mercutio]

So correct me if I am wrong (and that's what I'm hoping that you'll do), but isn't remote sales the 'perfect' solution for our biggest issue... location indepedence?

For example:
-We are pickup artists... I'm pretty sharp at game, so I should be suited to learning sales and being good at it.
-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world
-Pays good and pays in dollars
-Can set up a future amount of passive income based on your account base
-Is something that 95% of the world is scared shit-less of (but that's the same as approaching a girl)
-Once you are decent, only have to work 25-35 hours a week.
-There is always jobs for it
-If you do 100% commission, which pays the best, you are basically your own boss and can decide how much to keep working or not.
-Living in a cheap country gives you a huge cushion in terms of monthly fluctuations, and in lower the 'minimum' that you have to work.


Really tossing this out there to see if I can get some criticisms on this model, likely pain points, or reasons that this is completely feasible. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts!!

Thanks again!

[thegmanifesto]

(03-31-2013 07:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world

What phone solution do you use (or do you plan to use) to call America from other countries?

[Mercutio]

(03-31-2013 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world

What phone solution do you use (or do you plan to use) to call America from other countries?

I was thinking having a Skype-In number? You can purchase local numbers anywhere in the world. In the states, non-local calls are only 2cents a minute on skype. As long as the internet connection is good.

[thegmanifesto]

(03-31-2013 07:59 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world

What phone solution do you use (or do you plan to use) to call America from other countries?

I was thinking having a Skype-In number? You can purchase local numbers anywhere in the world. In the states, non-local calls are only 2cents a minute on skype. As long as the internet connection is good.

Yeah, but Skype can be real spotty when calling sometimes, especially if you don't have a strong connection or strong wifi.

When you are closing big deals, the last thing you want is a weesh connection or dropped calls.

[Suits]

(03-31-2013 08:08 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:59 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 07:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world

What phone solution do you use (or do you plan to use) to call America from other countries?

I was thinking having a Skype-In number? You can purchase local numbers anywhere in the world. In the states, non-local calls are only 2cents a minute on skype. As long as the internet connection is good.

Yeah, but Skype can be real spotty when calling sometimes, especially if you don't have a strong connection or strong wifi.

When you are closing big deals, the last thing you want is a weesh connection or dropped calls.

Agreed, you gotta have a good Internet connection and even that doesn't guarantee anything. I've lived overseas a bunch and I hate calling people back in Canada when I do, because the call quality tends to make the process frustrating.

I've tried several different methods, with varying, but inconsistent results.

[kenny_powers]

Sales IS communication. If you insist on cutting corners find another area in your life to do it. For business you should invest in the best phone, email, internet services you can get.

Skype for $.02 a minute? Who cares. You may as well get a carrier pigeon or use smoke signals.

Too many people on this board spend too much time being cheap trying to save money instead of making MORE money.

[Mercutio]

Ok, excellent feedback on the communications side, thanks everyone!

ASSUMING the phone portion is taken care of with 100% fidelity, I'm curious to hear what people think about the rest of the plan?

[kenny_powers]

(03-31-2013 08:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

Ok, excellent feedback on the communications side, thanks everyone!

ASSUMING the phone portion is taken care of with 100% fidelity, I'm curious to hear what people think about the rest of the plan?

I like sales. Do it. Right now this is more of an idea than a plan.

What are you going to sell?
To who?
Are you going to be an employee? A broker? A wholesaler?
Are you living in one country and doing business in another?
What are the regulations?
How will you collect money?
How will you get paid?

[Mercutio]

(03-31-2013 09:00 PM)kenny_powers Wrote:  

(03-31-2013 08:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

Ok, excellent feedback on the communications side, thanks everyone!

ASSUMING the phone portion is taken care of with 100% fidelity, I'm curious to hear what people think about the rest of the plan?

I like sales. Do it. Right now this is more of an idea than a plan.

What are you going to sell?
To who?
Are you going to be an employee? A broker? A wholesaler?
Are you living in one country and doing business in another?
What are the regulations?
How will you collect money?
How will you get paid?

You are 100% right, I am definitely still in the 'idea' phase... and that's exactly why I wanted to flush the idea out with this awesome and knowledgeable forum, to get the initial landscape around it.

What you just wrote is extremely valuable, a lot of that I had no idea were even issues (ex. broker, wholesaler, etc...) until you wrote that, so that really helps.

Kenny - do you have any recommendations of resources for me to get immersed in the sales landscape quickly? Any other advice would be massively valuable.

I'm also a bit caught in a weird bind because I have an mba from a very good university, and if I went into sales right now to gain training, I would be taking a major salary cut. So I'm not sure if I can just work like normal and then move into sales, using my savings as a cushion for my learning curve, or if I will really benefit from real on-the-job training. Can't tell if it is something that is either you got the talent or not, or if you need to learn. I've been told all my life I'd make a great salesman, and I've definitely proved it thus far in life.

[thegmanifesto]

On the job training is the only way.

[Hooligan Harry]

(03-31-2013 07:49 PM)Mercutio Wrote:  

-We are pickup artists... I'm pretty sharp at game, so I should be suited to learning sales and being good at it.
-Can be done via phone from anywhere in the world
-Pays good and pays in dollars
-Can set up a future amount of passive income based on your account base
-Is something that 95% of the world is scared shit-less of (but that's the same as approaching a girl)
-Once you are decent, only have to work 25-35 hours a week.
-There is always jobs for it
-If you do 100% commission, which pays the best, you are basically your own boss and can decide how much to keep working or not.
-Living in a cheap country gives you a huge cushion in terms of monthly fluctuations, and in lower the 'minimum' that you have to work.


Really tossing this out there to see if I can get some criticisms on this model, likely pain points, or reasons that this is completely feasible. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts!!

Thanks again!

1) A crucial part in selling anything is being able to meet with clients face to face. The day of the telephone based salesmen is over. People have been getting smashed on the phone for so long they no longer pay attention to telesales people. Other than cold calls, you wont be closing much business over the phone which means you are required in country. Also, unless you are meeting with clients regularly, there is no way to actually manage their sales cycle.

2) Few companies are going to give you a continuous cut of their billing. Your commission will be once off. There are some industries, like insurance and finance, where you earn for the length of the contract. Again though, you would need to be in country for this sort of thing because it requires a lot of consultation and face to face time. For the vast majority of sales people, there is no passive income to be had. You need to constantly be selling.

3) No good salesman I know works less than 60 hours a week. I know plenty who work 35 hours a week and are constantly struggling though. The belief that sales people have a lot of free time is a myth and its perpetuated by people who typically only view the profession from the outside. Seriously, I have breakfast, lunch of dinner with clients not because I want to entertain them, but because I am so busy that I would not eat otherwise. While everyone else is sleeping on the plane or chilling in the back of the taxi, Im working.

4) No company is going to employ remote sales people who are not in the territory they are selling into. You are expected to be available and also meeting with clients and customers directly.

Now, suggestions for a more realistic approach

1) Learn a foreign language or look for companies that would be prepared to relocate you. No one trades like westerners do, which means that large multinationals or companies that target them tend to require sales people on the ground in the regions they are targeting. Companies with head offices in places like Singapore or Hong Kong for example would kill to have western sales people in their offices. If you are bilingual, then there are tons of options.

2) Look for companies that expect travel. They then put you on a plane, give you an expense account and send you on your way. You are gone for months at a time and you often have no choice in where you are being sent. These are tough to come by, but you would be looking for companies that target developing economies or large multinationals who operate in developing countries.

3) Become an agent for a product or company you understand well and look to sell it yourself in whatever region you have decided to live in.

4) Become an exporter to the country you used to live in. I know a ton of guys who export everything from machine parts to offering recruitment services using cheap asian labor into developed countries under contract. One guy I know moved to China, where he builds and exports small generators and power products to Southern Africa. He is one of plenty that I know who has done this sort of thing.

Selling is a profession. Thinking that your ability to spit game is going to translate into your ability to sell is like someone who can debate saying they would be good at law. It really does not work that way. You need to either treat it like a profession or look to other options.

Honestly, if its location independence you want, you best bet is a business of some sort, not a remote job. If you want a remote job that allows you to travel, you are better off getting a job on a rig or a FIFO type job in resources/mining. The only realistic option is a small business that generates some good cashflow if thats not for you.

[Mercutio]

Epic, Epic, Epic post Houligan!!! I am literally about to board a plane to leave France so I can't respond right now too much, but you just dumped so much good information that I wish I could shake your hand. When I touch down, I can write a longer reply.

[Artfull Dodger]

Wow Hooligan really broke it down. I've been in sales for three years now and he's completely spot on, if you want to create location independent cash flow a career in sales may not be the best fit for you.

The whole selling process is 90% face to face ground/legwork: from prospecting to converting leads into client' to managing the after-sales care ;and ensuring continuous billing and up-selling clients into higher service tiers or additional features. You need to be physically present in your territory and work your ass off in order to meet your quotas and exceed them.

That said, specialized sales is the only non-STEM profession I know that is both recession and out-sourcing "proof", where high performers are always in demand and have greater leeway in setting their own salary/commission. As you rightly pointed out, sales is something that 95% of the population doesn't want to do and is scared of -which means that any man wanting to succeed in today's business world should really acquire this skill set. A lot of the myths about sales kinda remind me of the whole red-pill/blue-pill disconnect most people have with the information and skills exposed and taught by the manosphere.

Hooligans post has provided some amazing guidelines in regards to how you may want to approach getting into this profession if you are interested, to which I would just add some resources on how to acquire the actual sales skills and strategies that you would need to be competitive in this market.

I've found the following resources helpful when it came to building my own salesmanship:

-The Sales Bible by Jeffrey Gitomer: awesome and easy to read primer that takes you through the mindset and systematic approach of successful salesmen. The book touches on everything from cold calling to networking with decision makers. A no BS, high integrity approach to sales.

-SPIN Selling by Neil Rackham: another great book based on selling with integrity through building trusted relationships with prospects and clients, definitely recommended to anybody practicing or interested in getting into sales and complements Jeffrey Gitomers work nicely.

-Ilovemarketing(dot com): From what you have written it looks like you are interested in being an entrepreneur, this site will help you leverage your newly found sales skills by using education based marketing (EBM). To me the whole EBM approach is really the next step in high integrity/relationship building sales just like the Red Pill/Lifestyle game approach is the evolution of the original PUA idea. If your are developing an entire territory by yourself, especially for complex goods and services, direct personal selling will only get you so far, why not create a system that educates the market (creates attraction); sets you up as an expert (creates values, comfort and rapport) and leverages "hot" leads for you to escalate into a sale (notch). Go through the (free) podcasts and the report and see if it makes sense to you.

I know this post is getting super long but before I wrap up, look at getting into technical sales. This board always gives great advise to its members on learning and cultivating hard technical skill (e.g. plumbing or coding) to earn more money and secure your career, why not combine this with sales?

If you have a STEM qualification or are looking at getting one and are looking at practicing sales in a relevant market (Technology or Industry) why not combine them to get a leg up on the competition?

As a sales professional you need to know your product inside out and must be able to advise prospects/clients on how it fits into their organization and saves or makes them more money. I've seen so many newbies burn themselves out of sales and run away in frustration because they did not understand the benefits and limitations of the technical goods or services they were selling.

There are many opportunities for people who can have a no BS conversation with Engineers and Technicians about their product and service offering without having to hide behind the marketing literature and can turn around to explain to the Financial people why they will save money by buying from them.

Most hardcore technical people can't sell or interact with non-techies in a commercial situation at all and most sales people have no clue what it is they are actually selling and how it delivers value to the customer -combine both and the world is yours for the taking

Hope that helps...