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The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic
#1

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

This is an essay I thought I would try out here first and if it receives general approval, I may submit it to Roosh for publication in Return of Kings.
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This essay is a somewhat common theme in the manosphere, that the "sexual revolution" has led to increased obesity in the United States and Europe. But I wish to sort expand on it and support it with some data. You have to kind of dig in the research on obesity to come up with this claim.

Keep in mind that researchers in universities, especially medical researchers, are very sensitive to reactions to claims they make from those in the academic community and public. They are often publicly funded and being the messenger of "bad news" to the vested social interests can have dire consequences. So they have to hint at some findings and not be too direct about conclusions that go against maybe what the current consensus may be.

Research into the heredity of obesity focuses on genotypes and phenotypes. A genotype is exactly what the parts say, the genes. The phenotype is more, the genes, the behavior, and the environment, to put it very succinctly.

For political correctness, and as something that could actually be affected, acted upon, in a population, then most research delves into the environment and most of the obesity research community tends to focus on it, diet, exercise, pollutants, society, culture.

So a researcher can't just come out and say things directly. But I am not no fucking university researcher. I am Mark Minter of the Manosphere.

No researcher dares come out and say you are fat fuck because you are a fat fuck, your momma was a fat fuck, your daddy might have been a fat fuck. And you always are gonna be a fat fuck and any offspring you have are gonna be fat fucks also.

Because fat fucks are very very sensitive and scream bloody murder when somebody actually points it out that they crush mother fucking chairs and were born to crush fucking chairs. They scream when you point out that they were born to eat a "seafood diet" meaning that when they "see food" and they fucking want to eat it, all of it, mountains of it, and what they do to eat is going to turn straight into what is called "adiposity" , nice little scientific PCterm unto itself. You can't say that when they enter the All You Can Eat Chinese Buffer, Mamasahn says "Oh Fuck. There goes this month's profits." or she barks out with that mamasahn accent "You pay double now".

And researches also worry that this news would create a certain "fatalism" and "acceptance" among obese persons that there is little they can do,. And some researchers even say "Fuck it. It's too late.". The health hazards of even being classified as "overweight" compared to "thin" are almost as bad as being "obese".

So like the comedian says, What do say to some woman that weighs 450 pounds and they drop like 150 pounds?" "Gosh you're so thin." even they are still a fat fuck at 300 pounds. So even the woman that drops down from a BMI of 42 to 32, they still weigh 200 pounds even after the supreme sacrifice of dropping 80-90 pounds. This person could still die from vascular stress, still be subject to diabetes, still subject to much of the same societal and economic discrimination.

So researchers have "noted" that even with the same environment (and all that entails) some people remain thin and are resistant to weight gain. Duh? So these researchers tend to politely lean towards genetics as a key component in the rise of obesity. The big question is that "is it merely obesity genes?" or "is their some pollutant, some factor in the food, the nature of the food, the high caloric, high fat nature, that is responding to some "prehistoric" need to store fat, first, before anything else as a "historical" response to a natural reality of "famine"?". Did something cause the "high adiposity allele in the genes to click on?"

And I say no. It was always on. At least for these people. Yes, there has been a constant drift upwards in weight. And yes, now that people that might have marginally "thin" before are now overweight, and people that were "overweight" before are now borderline "obese". But my conclusion is that those that are genotypically obese with high tendencies to "adiposity" have become the prevalent genotype of western societies, statistically out numbering genotypically thin, and even genotypically "big".

So my opinion is that the Sexual Revolution has lead to an increase in obesity. And I have this opinion merely because I want to have it. One could say my reasoning is entirely circumstantial, something like "I flush the toilet a 5am and then the sun comes up later because I flushed the toilet." But so fucking what? I'm going with it.

The sexual revolution, more or less in "these" United States, started really sometime around 1972. There were pockets, LA, San Fran, NY, were it sort started sooner, but for the rank and file, 90% of the country it started later.

I was in the 8th grade in 1969 and had a girl friend that I was trying to push into giving up even 2nd and 3rd base, even to let me touch a titty. I mean, in 1969, when you were boy, you would consider it a good fucking month if you got to touch a titty. You would note it: "Dear Diary, Today, August 15, 1969, I touched a titty."

So she would read to me, over the phone, that big old heavy Bell System receiver with great sound, that you could beat someone to death with, some letter printed in the newspaper to Ann Landers, the "advice" columnist so popular at that time. So the letter would read:

"Dear Ann,
My boyfriend and I have been together for 8 months. And he is pressuring me to "go all the way" (yeah, the term at the time). He tells me if I loved him I would show him.

Ann, I love him so and I don't want to lose him. So what should I do?"

And Ann responded with the fucking words that were a bane and curse to horny boomer boys:

"Don't let a moment of pleasure lead to a lifetime of regret."

Fuck. I still hate those fucking words. Every time I would hear them I would roll my eyes before the first 4 words got out the girl's mouth. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Shut the fuck up!!

So by 1971, 1972 those walls started getting broken down IF you were a couple that was a "socially accepted": couple to the point that if you were alone, without the other one, all the other kids would ask immediately "Where's so-and-so?". So then those girls in those "socially accepted" couples started to give it up. Usually she had a "promise ring" which was like a "pre-engagement" ring that was a little less non-binding but was sufficient of a symbol to give the girl some social "wiggle room". But you pretty much had to be in that category. But it was "so sweet, they were in love".

And then in 1973, the dam just burst. Girls would give it up. Nothing to it anymore. And as boomer girls became 18, they went out and got birth control pills without the need of parental consent. Planned parenthood opened shop and it was then an "anonymous" thing and not something that you had to go to the same OB doctor that your mom used also, and admit you were, now, a fucking slut that fucked around. Nope, you could go to planned parenthood over by the University, where the receptionist was also a girl who fucked around and the doctor was a Feminist.

It became common to see the that "wheel" dispenser of a months pills in a girls purse. I mean, they could have left them home in the bathroom, but they would carry them around in their purses. When they would pull shit out of their purse from top to bottom to find something, it was wallet, make up pouch, pills. It was almost like the whole pill deal was packaged in a way to make a statement. Ok fine, you gotta take a pill every day. But they came in these little wheels with all 28 pills fanned out around the wheel with numbers by them so I guess women could look and remember that they took it. And the wheel thing looked like a makeup compact, not a sheet with 4 rows of 7 for a 28 day cycle like maybe cold pills, but this fucking pink wheel thing that was quite recognizable as birth control pills. I was like advertisement that basically said "I put out".

And from 1973 on until the AIDS scare in the mid 80s, it was then fuck city. BC pills and antibiotics along with social attitudes of the day just ripped down the walls that women had hidden behind. No more excuses any more baby, give it up.

Then in 1974 abortion came into public availability. It came on so fast. Like one year, it was sin, a heinous crime. My sister was 17 in 1971 and she had to go to New Mexico on a plane. And it was very hush hush secret. She told me. And my dad knew. He paid for it. And it put a giant rift between them for like ever.

Many years later, he was kinda drunk and confessed to me his anger at being put in the situation, that he was forced to cooperate with his daughter in the murder of his grand child. There was a big line in the sand between my generation and his. Theoretically, my mom never knew.

But this was all so modern and almost exciting to me. I went to the airport to get her with my dad. And she came off the plane drunk and acting kind of happy. I think she confessed to a woman sitting next to her, and the lady gave her couple of drinks and they interacted with the pain medication she was given. They didn't really give a shit on planes back then. And it pissed my father off over how happy she seemed. And me, I was thinking "So this means I get to get more pussy and nobody gets pregnant, right? And if somebody gets pregnant then I don't have to feel bad if they abort it, right? I mean this is OK with girls now, right? They are fucking happy when they get them, right?"

And add to this, a unique situation in America that was a function of the Baby Boom, quickly, as fast as they could be built, low cost apartments began to spring up all over the country, particularly in the Sun Belt. And this often was the impetus of migration from the north to Sun Belt. These were "new" style apartments built of wood and sheetrock, two or three stories high, all with a central pool. The pool was a very new thing. They were the centerpieces of the apartment complexes. And these pools were the scenes of incredible raucous behavior and big fun. We moved right out of our parents houses and into the apartments without any more parental supervision. Everyone did it. My first apartment was $250 a month. I had 3 room mates. It cost me maybe $80 a month. So one day, I'm living at home sleeping in a fucking twin bed and I have to be in by midnight and the next day I'm living in an apartment and fucking Dianne Woodmancy until dawn.

Add, to all of this, the drinking age in almost every state dropped to 18. One month after my 18th birthday, Texas made it legal, and the law had been passed months before, and from the time I was 17 on, there was little control over buying alcohol. The most effort required was waiting outside a store and asking some young guy to get it for you. At most, they might want one of the beers for doing it. But mostly, clerks never asked for ID. And I made a fake ID when I was 17, that was so good, a cop checked it and handed it back to me and then walked away and came back and said "Let me see that again." He put a flashlight underneath it and could see what I did. And he just said "You need to leave." And he took the ID. That was it. Today someone would go to jail. A few years later, one of my classmates from school was going the academy to be in the highway patrol. They had class on fake IDs and passed around some excellent specimens and my ID was among those he looked at. But by 1973, the doors blew wide open. Only 16 year olds needed fake IDs.

I lived places where on Saturday morning, I would wake the fuck up, pull on a swimsuit, and go straight to the pool, with a cooler crammed with whatever my thing to drink was at the time. There would be 100 people at the pool. And there were babes, at least babes to me at the time, thin babes, lots, all in bikinis, and we would spend the day at the pool, then all head out at night. I have lived in cities where there were traffic jams at 2 in the morning when the clubs closed. On the freeways!! One night stands or first night fucks became most common and I never went 3 dates before, as they said, I was "Grazin in the goodies".

The key Feminist demands of the day didn't seem so Feminist, they merely seemed to be the result of social development and technological advance. They wanted birth control, abortion, access to employment. Education had been, even for my mother, mostly open to women. My mother went to college and it was more a result of the improved status of her parents and an obvious benefit to having a degree than it had been to my grandmother. My mother entered college in 1941, before the start of WWII in September. There was no "well, all the men are at war, so let in the women so we have students." No she applied, was accepted because she was salutatorian in her high school class. It was entirely on merit and quite normal. And now with "reproductive rights" (it wasn't called that back then. It wasn't assumed to be a "right". It was more of a choice.) then women could "plan" and with that, they were not only accepted, but encouraged to work. And the men of the day were quite open to idea. Actually we fucking demanded it. Bitch needed to go get some money. I wouldn't have considered any woman that didn't want to work after college. To any feminist idea like birth control, abortion, access to employment, the key questions of the men of the day were:

"And I'm gonna get some pussy out of all this? And I don't have to marry nobody to get it? OK Fine. Works for me. Tell motherfucking Ann Landers to suck a fat one."

Now let's go back to the pool. Pools in the 70s and early 80s were fucking heaven. There were 150 million people in the US at the start of the Baby Boom. Half what there is today. There were 75,000,000 million kids born from 1948 to 1962 and most of those were bunched up around 1953-1958. So in 1973 over 1 in 3 people, really more like 40%, adding in all that had been born from 1962 to in 1973, were under 25. Everywhere you went it was kids, kids, kids.

Today, parents have to drive their kids all over town to find another kid to play with them. I went outside. All the kids were "outside" and were always tons of them. I would be heading towards the door and my mom would ask "Where you going?" and my answer was "outside". And she would say "Don't you leave the street", meaning our block. And I would say "Fine" and it was fine because Nancy Harlan and Debbie Fernandez lived next door to me, Dolores Coe lived next door to her. the Picard twins, Kathy and Karla lived next door to Dolores, and across the street lived the trifecta of three houses with Debbie Elder, Suzy Moran, Kathy, Debbie, and Karen Ashbee, any one could have been all stars today, and Kathy Ashbee and Suzy Moran could have made a photo shoot for any men's magazine of the day. One of the girls in my high school, one that I "played with" in the eighth grade actually was a Playmate of the Month. And she wasn't the most popular in my school. She got better later. But even then, there were better looking girls, right across the street from me.

And everyone of these girls had a BMI of 22. I swear to this day, if someone asked me "What's the right weight for a girl that is 5'7" I would say 110 pounds. Because that was the norm in 1973. A BMI of 25 is 144 pounds. Fuck, to me, that was fucking fat in 1973, at least "Healthy" (chunky). 125 meant she had big tits.

And my school wasn't anything special. I lived in a town right outside of the Austin city limits. There a creek in my backyard that was the boundary. When we would go to the bigger high schools in Austin for games, I was blown away. When I first went to the University of Texas at 18 years old, I was fucking overwhelmed. My classes seemed to be full of supermodels to me then. I dropped out and went in the Marines and came back 4 years later, and I was far better able to deal with what was there because I was older. They didn't seem quite to be supermodels, but they blew away anything I see today. Of course I'm older now. But I see pictures of that student body today and compare it to 40 years ago and there is no comparison. It was easier to get in there 40 years ago. Today you have to have 1300 SAT and 4.0 in high school. Back then a 1000 and high B got you in. So the students were more representative of the general population at the time. Today they are more "bookish".

And the reason you know about Austin, the reason the place is famous, is more to do what happened "back then" then what is going on today. Barton Springs was a natural pool fed by spring water and sits in a gorgeous setting, Hippie Hollow was on Lake Travis and was "clothing optional". And people would come here to visit and go to those places and be fucking blown away by the girls and they were everywhere. One of favorite memories in my life was being at Hippie Hollow with Tammy Gilbert in 1982. She had DDs and she took that top off and I was naked and we were out in the water on a big truck inner tube and I can close my eyes and see her still with those giant titties laying on that inner tube.

And Barton Springs had this thing, this ethic. We bought these French Air Mattress, silver bottom, clear top, and got in that pool on the mattresses and just floated. Maybe 300 people. There was a slight current, very slow and it pulled all the mattresses together towards the end of the pool and the surface space of the pool in that area was at least 80% covered by mattresses. And current would slowly rotate and change that mattress "log jam" and you would have an ever changing vista of girls floating near you, bumping into your mattress, coming into close proximity, all thin, all pretty, all in skimpy bikinis. And every one, all the boys, all the girls were attractive. Of course there was some limiting factors to it. Fat fucks probably stayed away because the scene would have been very uncomfortable for them. But it wasn't that different than what I saw, day to day, in the grocery store, in malls. Those girls at Bartons were better looking but not dramatically.

This was 1983 for me. I had gone in the Marines, gotten out, and took a deliciously slow path through college I was into my 5th year. I finished in December. If I had money I would have done two more years and been like a character from Animal House. Get this, my fees for a semester, with football tickets were $250. In the spring they were $225. At the best state university in Texas. Nationally ranked. Every major Fortune 500 company came to recruit. Everyone got jobs straight out of school. You graduated, took a month off, then showed up at some Big 8 accounting firm or big oil company in your new spiffy suit. Interviews would ask me "So you were in school for 5 and 1/2 years? Why so long?" and I would say "Uh, it was Austin."

And in two years, it would start to change. These were the last girls that were born right at or before the availability of the birth control pill in the United States, and the birth rate started to plummet on the slope that it is today, from tons of kids to practically no kids. And 10 years later, what the birth control bill didn't stop, abortion backed up with a "final solution". By 1985, it was common to know women that had 3 or 4 abortions already. Most girls had at least 1. Some were worried that the scarring from the procedure from the number that they had undergone would keep them from conceiving when they "finally" wanted a baby.

By 1987, the night life had changed dramatically. The drinking age got raised back to 21 and the girls in the clubs were so much harder edged than what had been common in the 70s with 18 year old girls out at night. And the ratio changed from walls of girls to 2 to 1 guys to girls. Often 3 to 1. At first, it didn't fuck with me. I thought "Fuck it, I'm better looking than 90% of these guys. So it's their fucking problem." I still did well. I was 32 in full SMV, 6'3", blonde, blue eyed. But by 1991 and I crossed 36, that shit started to bite. And I didn't have molecule of game and went entirely on looks. In 1992, I cashed in my chips, and married.

And the women were fatter, already. I was living Houston at the time. And I just though it was a Houston thing, Bayou Trash and all that. It went from like no one was fat to maybe 25% being fat. And they were usually from the lower classed neighborhoods, people with lower income, less education.

In 1973, in that list of girls, not only on my block, but in the whole neighborhood, there was only 1 fat girl, fat like today fat. And her mother had died two years before and everyone thought "It was her diet, her father didn't know how to raise a daughter. She misses her mother. Her dad gives her too much money and she eats too much pizza, too much junk food because of her grief over her mother". One. One fat girl. One real fattie.

So given the mobility of society in those days, I lost contact with most of those girls. But I was still sort of around until at least 1985. That would have made all of them at around 30 years of age. And the one thing I didn't hear was "She got married and had a baby." Some did marry. But almost all postponed, by any means necessary, having a child. At least until late 20s, early 30s. Some were married 10 years before having children. I waited 7 years even after marrying very late. I was the oldest man in my Lamaze classes. I was living in Boulder at the time.

We didn't finish the classes. The first class talked about "What to expect when you're expecting" with all these Boulder people, all these beta husbands, and all these happy happy "birth mothers", all those couples being all happy happy happy together, all of us all laying on pillows and mats on the ground, with that ugly 30 something feminist wife leaning into her ugly beta husband or him rubbing that fat fucking stomach of hers.

After going through the whole pregnancy deal, its phases, what happens when, they asked "Any questions?" and I asked "How bad will the vagina get stretched out and is there anything that make that shit get any tighter after my big headed baby goes ripping through there? And if you don't breast feed will the titties still be stretched out and fucked up?"

The whole class looked at me like "I can't believe you asked that, you insensitive fuck?" My wife was not surprised but pretty fucking pissed that I asked that question. So we didn't go back. I would have to say it was one of stupidest things I have ever done being in that class. It was disgusting. My wife didn't mention the class the next week and I fucking didn't ask. It was fucking stupid and that room was full of some of the ugliest and fattest women I have ever seen, all made uglier and fatter with pregnancy. Trust me, a room fulll of ugly, fat, pregnant feminists is no pretty sight.

And yeah I was old for a "young father with young children". When I would go pick my boy up at the Montessori Pre-School, this one kid poked at my son by saying "How nice, your grandfather came to pick you up." My kid said "Shut the fuck up." He was about 4 at the time. I was in my late 40s. My wife was 40.

And that was the way it was. Any women that were attractive waited until that last bus to babyville and the only women that had children before 28 were ugly, fat women. You can cite exceptions, but my observations are the rule. And there was this massive "rash" of teenage pregnancies during the 90s like it was social evil of the decade. And trust me, that teenage skinny bitch was not having that baby. She was over to planned parenthood finding some "solution". The girl that had that baby was a fat bitch.

Fat bitch understood, even if only subconsciously, that her "fecundity" was quite passing and really only a function of youth. I read a saying somewhere in the manoshphere that said "An attractive 35 year old is less desirable than an ugly 19 year old."

And subconsciously, she knew that even her miniscule SMV was only a function of being under 18 and subject to the scarcity model imposed on boys due to their own temporarily low SMV. So that hindbrain said she better get gettin' while the gettin' was possible. And the sacrifice of social stigmatism was nothing to her compared to social bump she got from being a mother. And it might not just be the last bus but only bus for her.

So who gets pregnant very young, before 25, before 23, Morissa, a fat 18 year old Mexican girl, that "coincidentally" "accidentally" got pregnant when the baby daddy figured out that his SMV had grown after turning 18, even as low as it was, to something that didn't need any longer to be with a fat little Mexican girl just to be getting a Whif of Jif. And he was gonna dump her ass. And surprise, "I accidentally got pregnant".

Morissa looks, basically today, after having a baby and passing 21, like Humpty Dumpty, sort a big fucking egg with some legs and arms sticking out of it. And the kid, even as an infant, especially as a toddler, it was obvious she is going to grow up and be a fucking fattie. And my sister's friend Jeanine, who also looks like Humpty Dumpty, who has 4 fat little kids all ranging in age from 20 to 2. She is about like 38 years old. So the first little fattie popped out at 18. And then every few years when she found some sucker, pop, out came numbers 2,3, and 4, all fatties-in-training.

So comparing from 1973 on, to before 1973 when the ethic was "If you want it, then you gotta put ring on it." Then no man was gonna put a ring on a fat bitch. Yes, there were fat bitches and yes, some of them did have children out of wedlock, but they were rare, and it was rare. But the fact you had to buy the whole cow in order to get milk, meant that men were more discriminating about even entering into relationships because even if they did not marry it and even got to fuck it, there was still some serious investment of time in order to get sex. And even two or weeks was too much to invest in a fat bitch when the world was full of skinny bitches.

And no man wanted to be seen with a fat bitch, not me, not in front of my friends, no fucking way. And in 1970, if I touched a fat bitch, that fat bitch would have been on the school intercom broadcasting the fact. And I would have never lived it down. Not even by saying, "Well, the bitch fucked me". They all would been saying "So fucking what. She's still a fat bitch." Maybe Shorty Jones might have chimed in with "The worst piece of ass you'll ever get is still good." And that would sparked debate. And I would have had to shoot that bitch to have gotten rid of her.

And all the other women would have said "Well, he just got what he wanted and then dumped her" and I would have paid a social price for that. It would have made it so much more difficult for me to say "No, baby I love you forever. Just give it to me." They would have replied "Well what about the fat bitch. You dumped her." And no girl would have wanted to let a guy that touched a fat bitch touch her. What did that say about her? That fat bitch fuckers, guys that were only interest in getting a nut, were guys that were in her league?

But then after 1973, when there was easier, less socially ostracized access to sex, then fucking a fat bitch had less social cost. So since some men, not me, but some men, could fuck a fat bitch and pay no "costs" and society had changed to create far more anonymity for all and less accountability socially for actions, then more fat bitches got fucked than in any other time in human history. It would be quite warranted for future historians to look back at the era from 1980-2010 and call it the "Liberation of the Fat Bitches" era.

Fuck "Free Willy". It would have not surprised me to be at Sea World and see a Fat Bitch jump out the stands, out jump Shamu, and snatch that fish away from him. It was "Free Fat Bitch". (Sorry, that has nothing to do with this essay. I just like the image of a fat bitch outjumping Shamu to get that fish)

So then attractive woman were waiting to have children and the fat bitches were "out jumping Shamu" and getting "fishes", recognizing the limits to their "fecundity", and having children early and as often as they could find a stupid fucker to fuck them. Often they were those women that had multiple children, because the benefits of having them, outweighed the physical or social costs of having them? So what was gonna happen to a fat bitch if she got pregnant? She'd get fat? Fuck, she already was fat? Genotypically fat, "fat to the bone" (Think of George Thoroughgood singing "Fuh fuh fuh fuh fayat, She's fat to the bone"). No, she would get the social acceptance and benefits that society confers to mothers. She would rise up in the Feminine Matrix from "Fat bitch" to "mother".

And so just like in the movie "Idiocracy", if smart people wait and have few or no kids, then if stupid people "breed" early and often, then the stupid people will be more genetically "successful" and in the end will control a society by sheer numbers. And so the same thing had occurred with "fat bitches" and their fat little offspring.

Assume four different genotype/phenotype combinations.

1) Inherently and environmentally thin. They are born to be thin and despite the environment, they are thin.

2) Naturally thinner but it takes awareness, work, and discipline to remain thin.

3) Borderline slightly genotypically fat, and the environment pushes them over the edge. They can range from "overweight" at greater than BMI of 25 and just over the 30 BMI.

4) Genotypically/ Phenotypically Fat

Now look at BMI breakdown. It's close enough for men and women to generalize about both sexes. With a slight twist about those in between category 2 and 3 above.

One third of the population fits in Category 1 and 2. More women than men in the 2 category. Probably equal in the 1 category. That says that about 20% are naturally lean or athletic in build.

One third fits in between category 2 and 3. More women than men are closer to 2 and more men are right close to 3 or at 3. My opinion is that SMV for women derives exactly from appearance and fecundity. So if they are close to it, then they work to get the power derived from it because it is a far tangible and real power for women than it is for men. So an "overweight man" say some guy about 5"10 that maybe weighs 200, he accepts it. A diet and the gym could push him down to 190, 185, but it isn't that pressing to him.

The statistcs basically say this: 33% of women have BMI less than 25%, 30% of men. 20% have a BMI of less than 20. A 5"6" girl at 120 is 20.

More men then women are classified as "overweight" BMI of 25-30. 30% men, 26% women.

And the statistics say that in both sexes, 36% obese, BMI of 30-40.

And 8% of women and 4% of men are "extremely obese" BMI 40+.

So, 44% of women are obese or extremely obese, 40% of men. So what that now means is a larger group than any other group is gentypically obese and is the prevalent group in America.. Far more than the genotypically thin people that predeominated only 40 years ago in America.

I used a BMI calulator and for a 5'6" woman, (and the average woman is 5'4"), the 25 BMI is 148 pounds, 30 at 188 pounds, 40 at 250.

Let's put this in perspective. You are a man and your perception of weight is different. Stack up 250 pounds of hamburger 5'6" inches and see wide that stack is.

Or go into the store and start shoving 1 lb packs of hamburger in your clothes. Hamburger has a 37% body fat ratio. Say if you weigh 180, what the fuck are you gonna look like after you have shoved 70 packs of hamburger in your clothes? And 8% of women are fatter even than that. And 1 pound of fat is bigger than 1 pound of hamburger.

So then remember back when I said the ideal weight for 5'7", as I perceive it given the weight of women when I was young, was 110. So then add those 70 pounds to even reach the threshold of a BMI of 30 at 188. Or 140 lbs for a BMI of 40. What does that woman look like?

Walmart sells a 5 pound tube of hamburger, it is 3 inches in diameter and about a foot long. It has circumference of over 19 inches. Four of them are the size of my thigh. I am 6'3" and weigh 200 pounds. One of them is pretty close to your calf, maybe your upper arm, bigger than your forearm. And the difference in weight between my ideal 110 pound woman and 188 pounds for the 30 BMI threshhold, that over 44% of women today exceed, is at least 16 of those tubes of hamburger.

More than the size of both of your calves, thighs, and arms, both upper and lower, basically your arms and legs. And 8% of women are 28 tubes of that hamburger bigger, basically you + plus that 110 girl, maybe little less.

Lets talk sizes. Anything you think is attractive that is less than say 5'8" is gonna wear probably a size 6. A size 8 is starting to be a big girl but pretty ideal for 5'8", a little less ideal at 5'6", a little big at 5'4". A size 10 skirt is way bigger than my ass and I weigh 200 pounds.. A woman that wears a size 10 is not getting my size 34 pants over her thighs. And that is a big girl at size 10.

Guess what size a girl with a 25 BMI wears? 12. I searched on google. I searched the size for 5'6" and 148 pounds. And it came back as a 12. My favorite Craigslist type ad was "Wedding Dress size 20 never worn". I can fucking see why. Now if put in what size for 5'6" and a BMI of 40, it comes back with "4 man tent".

In the 70s there was a popular chain of stores called "5-7-9 stores" which basically the junior sizes, smaller waist, compared to adult sizes 4,6,8,10. And they were popular because that was the normal sizes for girls back then, size 5-7-9 comprised about 60 or 70% of all girls back then with some that were too small for those sizes. My longtime college girlfriend was 100 pounds when I met her and never got over 105 in fours years. She actually had to shop in the girls department and in adult sizes she wore a fucking 0 (zero). Today girls blow past 100 pounds when they are 12. And she never dieted a lick. And today, 5-7-9 stores would fucking go broke. Actually they did go broke sometime in the 90s. And that was when the "Obesity Epidemic started" rising from less than 10% obese to what it is today with 40% obese, 70 % overweight or obese.

So like daddy always said "You ain't gonna turn no mule into a thoroughbred". Ain't no pill,. no diet, no magic stairmaster, no Joe Weider weight set, that is going to change these people into anything resembling a thin, "normally" sized person. I quoted "normally" because the reality is after 40 years of "selective breeding" or rather, quite "unselective breeding", they are now the new "normal".

They are gentypically and phenotypically "adipose". And they now constitute 40% of men and 44% of women. And that is today. Wait until the older, leaner generations die off. No, they are not all lean now and some are quite overweight from years and years of sedentary lifestyle with a high caloric diet. But they started lean. And when they die off, and we are left with what exists today, I am sure those people with high "adiposity" will push the 50% mark.

And the 90s, when the obesity numbers started cliimbing, were when those those kids born after the birth control bill started dropping the birth rate, and began to skew the numbers for adult obesity. The category overweight BMI 25-30 has had constantt 30% number forever, even now. The growth has come in the obese categories. It has grown from around 10% in 1975, which was the normal rate for years, to 20% in 1985, to 25% in 1995, to 33% in 2005, to the 42% it is today, And its not because 7-11 sells Big Gulps. It is because thin women stopped having children and fat women had them. It is a waste of money to research whether or not Coca-Cola turns on the alleles in childhood that lead to adult obesity. They are fat because their grandma was slightly fad and hat a fat daughter who fucked a fat man and they both produced some fattie kids, often mulitples. And thin women were saying, "I'm not done with the carousel yet". And some stayed on it too long. So just think over my life time. Fat bitch had two fat daughters in 1975, who had therr own two fatter kids in 1995, for total for 4 fatties, who will be pushing 20 in two years, and are 18 right now. Each about to pop out two or more fatties each for total of 8 fatties. I had two kids, one of them is now 19, the other 15, and neither of them, both attractive will even be thinking about having a kid for a least 10 more years. So the count, Fatties 8, Mark 2. And ten years down the line, the count could be, Fatties 16, Mark 2.

One observation I could make about my neighborhood in the early 70s. It was all teenagers and no younger parents with really young children. All of our parents were early 40s in age, some up to late 40s. But there was only 1 house in the neighborood with parents in their late 20s with kids that were younger then 8. The birth rate of white middle class women had dropped by then.

It didn't shut off like the press says it did. But it did drop, from 25 per 1000 in 1955 to 19 per 1000 in 1965 to 15 in 1975. That is 40% drop in birth rate in 20 years. A drop by 1/3 between 1965 and 1975. And who were that 40% that weren't having kids. The thin attractive women. And who were those women that were having kids?

Look around you the next time you're in a grocery store.

------------

So let me know if you think I should submit this to Return of Kings.
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#2

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

As I understand it, you're saying fat people, and people prone to getting fat in our current environment, had more kids, and led to a rise in obesity.

To be honest, I'm a little skeptical that there's a big enough difference in fertility between skinny people and fat people to explain the quick rise in obesity. There is a difference though ( found this http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/05/fat_people_have.html ).

Check out the difference in obesity between 1986 and 2010. (You can see the map change annually here - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html )
[Image: attachment.jpg10798]   

I think the rate of increase in obesity is just way too fast to blame changes in gene frequencies, i.e. fat people having more babies. Women are cooking many fewer meals at home, and we eat more sugar nowadays. The balance of foods and portion sizes we eat now are very different from what we ate in the 1960's. One thing you didn't mention, but may be even more explanatory of the rise in obesity, is women leaving the home to work, and/or cooking less for their children, and not setting an example for their daughter to cook for *their* future children. There was a study recently finding that women nowadays spend much less time on domestic duties, including cooking. And, like you said, a lot of the fat people you see now would not be fat in the environment of the 1950's.

Some personal perspective: I come from a thin family - I have many siblings, and they are all thin. My father was thin through his youth, but was a little chubby until recently. Most of my relatives are thin. I look like someone who is congenitally skinny, at least I did before I started lifting. Yet I'm sure that I'd get chubby over time if I ate like most people do. I have a big appetite, and if I eat shitty foods like sweets and wheat (and probably vegetable oils), I will get fat despite my genetic propensity otherwise. If I eat a healthy diet without those foods, especially one that is high in fat and moderate in carbohydrates, I hardly have to worry about the quantity of food I'm eating.

(I'm not a mod or anything for RoK, just a contributor.)
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#3

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Excellent read. Thanks for posting. I visited some family recently in Tulsa, OK. I used to visit there as a kid quite frequently. That was in the 1980's and by today's standards it would be considered super thin back then. It was just normal. I live in Colorado and we are the most thin state in the Union in 2013, but comparatively we would have been the fattest state in the Union in the early 1990's. So living in the most thin state today you don't really understand how bad things have gotten. Before that I lived in Los Angeles, CA for a while which I don't recall being fat 8 years ago - at least on the west side. All I could think when I visited Tulsa was WTF happened? It was unreal - and this wasn't in a poor part of town, but one of the nicest. It was like an atomic bomb of obesity went off. I would walk through a nice grocery store and think that I saw the fattest person, only to hit the next aisle and see a 400 pounder - maybe more. I'd say 40-50% of the population was either extremely obese or morbidly obese. It truly was unreal - nothing like I remembered it.

It took traveling to a dark red state on this map to actually put in context what I have been reading about the obesity epidemic.

[Image: bYIS3bf.png]

Edit: Just to put what I wrote in context, 39% of the state of Oklahoma has either pre-diabetes or diabetes. Think about that.
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#4

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 01:45 PM)Emmanuel Goldstein Wrote:  

As I understand it, you're saying fat people, and people prone to getting fat in our current environment, had more kids, and led to a rise in obesity.

To be honest, I'm a little skeptical that there's a big enough difference in fertility between skinny people and fat people to explain the quick rise in obesity. There is a difference though ( found this http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/05/fat_people_have.html ).

Check out the difference in obesity between 1986 and 2010. (You can see the map change annually here - http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html )


I think the rate of increase in obesity is just way too fast to blame changes in gene frequencies, i.e. fat people having more babies. Women are cooking many fewer meals at home, and we eat more sugar nowadays. The balance of foods and portion sizes we eat now are very different from what we ate in the 1960's.

Some personal perspective: I come from a thin family - I have many siblings, and they are all thin. My father was thin through his youth, but was a little chubby until recently. Most of my relatives are thin. I look like someone who is congenitally skinny, at least I did before I started lifting. Yet I'm sure that I'd get chubby over time if I ate like most people do. I have a big appetite, and if I eat shitty foods like sweets and wheat (and probably vegetable oils), I will get fat despite my genetic propensity otherwise.

(I'm not a mod or anything for RoK, just a contributor.)

That's point. It's not so much that fat people were having fat kids, but skinny people stopped having. Kids.

Listen to think some 11 year old that weighs 180 pounds because his momma doesn't cook at home, is naive. Her actions may contribute, but there are plenty of other kids whose momma doesn't cook either or eat the same things that do not get to 180.

Cows get to be big because they are cows. It is more of a genotypical reality than the farm they live on.

Look at that example about my life 16 fatties to 2 mark kids.

The gene pool can and has turned over that quickly. 40 years allows 3 generations. 50 million probably mostly thin children have been aborted.
That certainly can explain a genotypic increase from 10% to 40%.

If abortion or the pill had never been invented, the population of the United States could well be over 400 million right now, maybe 450, If boomer women had continued to have children as the rates their mothers have them, if would have quite possible.

And those lost births, were the attractive and the thin, because that attractive and thin mother stood to loose so much more by the pregnancy.
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#5

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:00 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

Before that I lived in Los Angeles, CA for a while which I don't recall being fat 8 years ago - at least on the west side. All I could think when I visited Tulsa was WTF happened? It was unreal - and this wasn't in a poor part of town, but one of the nicest. It was like an atomic bomb of obesity went off.

Obesity is more common among the poor and non-Asian minority groups. California is still one of the thinner states, when only looking at its whites: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/compareb...6&show=135 . Also, all else equal, I'm betting single people are thinner.

Quote:Quote:

Listen to think some 11 year old that weighs 180 pounds because his momma doesn't cook at home, is naive. Her actions may contribute, but there are plenty of other kids whose momma doesn't cook either or eat the same things that do not get to 180.

Obesity is very common among Native Americans, while depictions of their ancestors showed them to be very lean...
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#6

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

actual gif I found

[Image: logo_mintermania_minter.jpg]

Check out my occasionally updated travel thread - The Wroclaw Gambit II: Dzięki Bogu - as I prepare to emigrate to Poland.
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#7

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Bitches be like "Who are you?" and i'm like "I am Mark Minter of the Manosphere" bitch.

"I have refused to wear a condom all of my life, for a simple reason – if I’m going to masturbate into a balloon why would I need a woman?"
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#8

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Thanks for this, Mark. It's great to read your observations over time regarding this phenomenon. It seems a bit long for RoK. Would you ever consider starting your own blog?

This obesity problem makes me think of Jonathan Swift/Harry Harrison solution.
"Soylent green is fatties!...Mmm, it's so well-marbled."

Or maybe even John Scalzi:
Fat Fuck's War where they lipo out the fat and use it for rocket fuel.

"The whole point of being alpha, is doing what the fuck you want.
That's why you see real life alphas without chicks. He's doing him.

Real alphas don't tend to have game. They don't tend to care about the emotional lives of the people around them."

-WIA
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#9

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Hey great piece, the scenes describing life in the 70s were captivating.

If you take an otherwise healthy cow that eats grass all the time and start feeding it a mixture of corn/soy as is done in industrial feedlot operations the cow will rapidly gain fat and its healthy will deteriorate. The trick is to slaughter and butcher the cow before the diet kills it. Humans respond in exactly the same way. The obesity rate was constant from 1960-1980 at which point a carbohydrate and polyunsaturated fat heavy diet took the place of the more traditional diet which emphasized eggs, butter and other healthy sources of fat.

[Image: prevalence-of-obesity.gif?_cfgetx=img.rx...mg.ry:400;]

[Image: carb-chart.jpg?_cfgetx=img.rx:400;img.ry:250;]

[Image: disease-butter.gif?_cfgetx=img.rx:500;img.ry:400;]

[Image: us-dietary-fat.gif?_cfgetx=img.rx:500;img.ry:400;]

Source: http://lewrockwell.com/miller/miller38.1.html

In most of the population this creates this runaway weight gain effect. The good news is that if you revert to a high fat, low processed food, high vegetable diet you can lose the additional 30+ lbs in a matter of months.

The genome of the entire population has not changed in the 1-2 generations that have been born since the 70s. What has changed is the environment(particularly food). Your genome has many genes present in it, only a fraction of which are active at one particular time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

I don't disagree that the factors you discussed have had a dysgenic effect, however the situation is a little more complicated. Plenty of people have switched diets and changed their body composition in a matter of months as well as cure or reduced chronic health issues.

See: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/category/...z2P9DUtSpf
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#10

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:16 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

actual gif I found

In a way, that is most unsettling. I don't do this to be known. Sometimes I wonder how Roosh deals with his particular breed of fame. Negative comments still affect me. And anytime I see my name, it can be a little uncomfortable. I write some fairly radical shit. It is one thing to be known and read among the "family", but surely it will piss people off outside of it. I like being read, but ...
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#11

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Well, that guy in the MarksDailyApple was moderately overweight, really only flabby.

I would agree with you but more to the reverse. Instead of environmental conditions predominate yet the genotype of has contributed to the situation, I continue to say that genes predominate and the environmental situation contributes to the situation.

I eat that diet you refer to. Once I had a ridiculously high carb diet coupled with a time that I was drinking coffees a day, large Vente type Starbucks coffees. And I would put 12 packs of sugar in each one. Or if there was dispenser I would hold up and count 1,2,3 until 15.

And I got all the way up to 205. My favorite weight is like 185. I probablyweigh 190. I hardly excercise. I eat a southern diet. Today I'm cooking meat loaf, mashed potatoes w butter, milk, and a creole sauce from tomatoes, that will probably be my vegetable for today. Yesterday I ate 2 chiliburgers and two chili dogs.

Now if one of these people with the genotype to which I refer would gain 5 pounds a week eating my diet. I gain nothing.

I found research that says some phenotypes are prone to convert the vast majority of what they eat into fat.

And some aren't.

And my thesis is that those that aren't prone have withdrawn, delayed, deferred, avoided having children and those that are not prone have not. And actually have been able to reproduce in levels they would not have been able under a more "selective" atmosphere on the part of men.

Yes, I agree that some intervention can reduce weight. That people can begin to undertake dramatic actions to reduce the level of obesity. But the minute they revert to anything resembling a "normal" diet consisting of food that is served in restaurants, they will bloat back up.

And really the time before the 70s, was not known for the health of its diet. I found an old Betty Crocker cook book from the 50s and the you almost laugh at the recipes, what ingredients are called for.

Yes, I admit you can look in the shopping basket of obese people in the market and the stuff they buy is highly contributory the weight they carry.

But I think both, that they want to eat that food, and the fact they convert it to fat as they do are genetic characteristics of the person. And are almost a fatalistic surrender that they are what they are and whatever they do they will be as they are.
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#12

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:33 PM)SpiderKing Wrote:  

Thanks for this, Mark. It's great to read your observations over time regarding this phenomenon. It seems a bit long for RoK. Would you ever consider starting your own blog?

God no. Everyone in the manosphere knows about Mark Minter as that great commenter who routinely drops tremendous wisdom. Give him a personal blog, and he is just another wannabe writer who has been hurt by women and whatnot.

And believe me, I say this out of respect for Mark and his very insightful article. I found it maybe a bit too personal, like a memoir (it also contributed to length), but the idea is novel and very interesting, and probably should be statistically explored further.

"Imagine" by HCE | Hitler reacts to Battle of Montreal | An alternative use for squid that has never crossed your mind before
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#13

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:16 PM)aphelion Wrote:  

actual gif I found

Actually I feel better. This is for a Jeff Minter, a programmer of Commodore video games. It has nothing to do with me. Jeez I was a little worried for a minute.
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#14

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 03:13 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

[quote='SpiderKing' pid='407423' dateline='1364758426']

God no. Everyone in the manosphere knows about Mark Minter as that great commenter who routinely drops tremendous wisdom. Give him a personal blog, and he is just another wannabe writer who has been hurt by women and whatnot.

I tend to agree. On one hand its kind of chicken shit piggy backing on others blogs and popularity. But on the other hand, it where the manosphere is. The only thing I could say about my own blog is that wouldn't hijack the thread of the blogger. But I think I kind of do better feeding off of the topics.

And one thing I have learned is that it is a lot easier to comment than to have the discipline to write properly constructed essays. So hats off to the great bloggers.
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#15

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:00 PM)Mark Minter Wrote:  

The gene pool can and has turned over that quickly. 40 years allows 3 generations. 50 million probably mostly thin children have been aborted.
That certainly can explain a genotypic increase from 10% to 40%.

If abortion or the pill had never been invented, the population of the United States could well be over 400 million right now, maybe 450, If boomer women had continued to have children as the rates their mothers have them, if would have quite possible.

And those lost births, were the attractive and the thin, because that attractive and thin mother stood to loose so much more by the pregnancy.

Where do you get this idea that aborted babies would have been thin. There is no evidence for that at all.
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#16

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Hey Mark,

Huge fan of your work!

Anyway - for those that liked Mark's article. You will find some other interesting points that he made in an earlier version. I set up a thread to discuss it awhile ago. For those worrying about fatty dysgenics - it is worth checking out:

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-20498-...69007.html
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#17

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Where do you get this idea that aborted babies would have been thin. There is no evidence for that at all.
[/quote]

I would say that would practically impossible to prove.

The statement is merely based on the anecdotal evidence of who was having the abortions. If thin attractive women were having sex with thin attractive men, then probably the baby would have been thin and attractive as an adult. And as we know thing attractive women generally can have sex with whoever they damn well please and they generally choice attractive men. And I use thin meaning "not fat".

And as I said in the article, it was quite common among the girls, my sisters, their friends, all of the girls I met in 5 years of college, That they all seemed to have had 1 or more abortions. Three was not rare. I think my ex-wife had 4. Maybe 5. One will married to me after the birth of the first child.

So I admit I am extrapolating out my experience with the woman I knew and I personally don't find it to be so different from probably what other men aged 45-55 experienced.


Here let me make this other analogy I made in a previous comment.

The rule of exponentiation says the rate of a thing will double in X periods is you divide the the rate of change in 70. You can also say the same thing in inverse. A thing will have if you divide the rate of change into 70.

Assume given the statistic I saw from 1970.

10% were obese and 30% were overweight leaving 60% as "thin".

The statistics also said that that 30% overweight remained as a constant and other data I saw bore that out. Especially for men.

So then lets assume that birth rates are decreasing at 5% for thin people due to the pill and abortion. Then lets assume a 5% rate of growth for the Obese group.

So 70/5% per year is 14 years until a double or a half.

So then that 60 is 30 in 14 years and that `10 is 20 in 14 years and 30 is still 30.

So while it doesn't add to 100, it becomes the new smaller population of
30+30+20. So now 20/80=25% and 30/80 now is a larger percent then 30 and is 37.5%.

So look how that small change can have a great effect on the overall percentage exponentially over time. What was the majority genotype now no longer is. And that small growth in an absolute minority has a greater effect in smaller total.

The birth rate has shrank from 4.25 in 1995 to 1.1 in 2011. So even holding obese genotypes constant over a 40 year period in the face of dramatically shrinking birthrate and noted lack of children among the more attractive, better educated, higher income women, will make the effect of the constant or slightly growing group to be larger in the total population.
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#18

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Here are some more charts you guys might find interesting.

[Image: Average-Daily-Calories-Consumed.png]

[Image: sugars-a.jpg]

In my experience it is impossible to overeat if you eat foods with fat and protein such as chicken thighs, steak, eggs, salads with olive oil based salad dressing you prepare yourself and nuts. As soon as you switch a person over to eating lots of high quality fats they lose weight until they become very slender while at the same time being satiated most of the time. Notice that sharp rise in the graph of calories consumed around 1980, the exact time when people starting eating more grains/carbs! Less quality fat = less satiation = more overeating and weight gain. Butter, steak, eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, chicken thighs, liver and heart are all heath foods that will keep you skinny effortlessly instead of being horrible for you as they have been castigated for over the past several decades.
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#19

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

There is no evidence at all for your thin theory. All the data goes counter to it. For one, older women have more abortions than younger women. Minorities are disproportionately having more abortions than white girls so more than likely those minorities are less thin. 69% of abortion patients are economically disadvantaged. I'm pretty sure you know that there is a clear correlation between poverty and obesity. All the data clearly points to the opposite of your conclusion. Abortion probably saved us from a lot of obese and ugly people
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#20

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:14 PM)Emmanuel Goldstein Wrote:  

Obesity is very common among Native Americans, while depictions of their ancestors showed them to be very lean...

That's true but those depictions were of indigenous people still living traditional lifestyles.

There's research indicating that Native Americans have a genetic propensity to obesity. Although there's plenty of controversy over the matter, the "thrifty gene hypothesis" first postulated by James Neel back in the 60's has not really been disproven. He observed that Native Americans had very high rates of diabetes, and wanted to understand why this trait might have been selected for. His theory was that indigenous peoples developed genes to promote the rapid accumulation of fat because their societies were subject to cycles of feast and famine.

It seems that Native Americans may be prone to obesity because of genes like the protein-binding gene A2BP1 impacting the efficiency of the body in turning food intake into adipose tissue as well as genes like HCRTR2 that regulate food receptors in the brain and hence control appetite.

The same genetic equipment that would have helped primitive hunter gatherers and horticulturalists to survive harsh winters or bad hunting seasons may now make their fast food eating descendants obese.
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#21

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 04:36 PM)n0000 Wrote:  

In my experience it is impossible to overeat if you eat foods with fat and protein such as chicken thighs, steak, eggs, salads with olive oil based salad dressing you prepare yourself and nuts. As soon as you switch a person over to eating lots of high quality fats they lose weight until they become very slender while at the same time being satiated most of the time. Notice that sharp rise in the graph of calories consumed around 1980, the exact time when people starting eating more grains/carbs! Less quality fat = less satiation = more overeating and weight gain. Butter, steak, eggs, coconut oil, olive oil, chicken thighs, liver and heart are all heath foods that will keep you skinny effortlessly instead of being horrible for you as they have been castigated for over the past several decades.

I was going to say exactly that, when I saw the graph above this text. You can consume several hundred calories' worth of sugary foods like cookies and soda, and even white breads, and not feel any more full.

By the way, where are you getting your charts from? I wanted to find the obesity rate over time one, but didn't find it in my brief search.

Quote:Quote:

That's true but those depictions were of indigenous people still living traditional lifestyles.

There's research indicating that Native Americans have a genetic propensity to obesity. Although there's plenty of controversy over the matter, the "thrifty gene hypothesis" first postulated by James Neel back in the 60's has not really been disproven. He observed that Native Americans had very high rates of diabetes, and wanted to understand why this trait might have been selected for. His theory was that indigenous peoples developed genes to promote the rapid accumulation of fat because their societies were subject to cycles of feast and famine.

Did they actually get fat in times of feast or famine? I haven't seen that research, but the most likely possibility is simply that their bodies are not adapted to the diets introduced by Westerners - nor are Westerners themselves, for the most part.
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#22

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 05:01 PM)jammer Wrote:  

There is no evidence at all for your thin theory. All the data goes counter to it. For one, older women have more abortions than younger women. Minorities are disproportionately having more abortions than white girls so more than likely those minorities are less thin. 69% of abortion patients are economically disadvantaged. I'm pretty sure you know that there is a clear correlation between poverty and obesity. All the data clearly points to the opposite of your conclusion. Abortion probably saved us from a lot of obese and ugly people

First I would doubt that abortions are unique to economically disadvantaged, because my experience was well-to-do women quite frequently had abortions and in the 70s and 80s it was most common among college bound, college, and college educated women.

And any reduction on the prevalent group at period A will be greater manifested at period B than a equivalent reduction in a smaller group.

But second, abortion is only one factor in the issue. Birth Control is far more of factor. Data has shown white educated women delaying children until well into their 30s.

Second, it is no secret that these women are sexually active, almost to the point that the partner count of a typical attractive, middle or upper middle class woman often dwarfs that of equivalent men in her age group.

And even though maybe in earlier decades, the partner count might have lower, the frequency of sex was probably constant. Never in my life have I ever seen even average girls, much less 6s and above remain single unless there was a willful desire to do so. So most were like my ex-wife and other women I knew. They went from longer monogamous relationships maybe 2 or 3 that were 3 months in length to one that might last 2,3,4 years even with cohabitation that did not turn into marriage.

So they were still having regular sex, several times a week, often more. And yet the statistics show a declining birth rate from 1965 on to the point that in 1985 it was 60% of what it had been 20 years before.

So to me, birth control was far more responsible than abortions and possibly abortions may be of a higher incidence among lower income women exactly because until Obamacare, pills might not have covered under any insurance and birth control, doctors visits, and the cost of birth control was entirely a function disposable income. But that those that mean that when that 3% of birth control pill users got pregnant that they didn't get abortions.

What data has shown is that over the past 40 years, the number of children born to minorities, blacks and hispanics has increased as a total number of children born and the number of children born to whites has reduced the share of whites as a total percentage of babies born and overall within the population. In California alone, whites are in the minority.

That is an irrefutable statistic. Ask the fucking Republicans about it. Their electoral base is shrinking from declining birth rates as much as from any great ideological shift among its prior base of voters. Remember that great Fox rant on the night the elections about "Real Americans voted for Romney". Yes, a greater percentage of women voted for Obama vs Romney than for Kerry vs George Bush in 2004, But it was a constant value from the 2000 election. And in fact it grew due the changing demographics of the voters.

I admit that a lot of this is the eyeball test factor for me. And it is a theory that I have gone looking for proof as opposed to a straight conclusion that resulted from straight up data.

There was several studies that I found yesterday. This one is key. It is from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/275.full.pdf.

There was a seminal study from 20 years ago that greatly attributed obesity to Genetics and a follow up study to the findings from the first study still remain valid, these are studies based on twins, fraternal and identical, some separated at birth, others separated a some point in time.

And the general conclusion was that while environment plays an important part, the key was, and is genetics.

And this study even mention that reluctance of even researchers to attribute obesity to factors other than environment. And I can see that in reluctance of people to refuse to accept that anything other than behavior is responsible for obesity. Even in this thread.

It is like they want some damning evidence that fatties can do better, that it was that bag of chitos and not any genotypical tendency to possibly crave food more than you or me, to the point of pain, or that the tendency of their body to convert food that I could eat and not gain an ounce directly in adipose fatty tissue that sits right below the skin.

Now, no one can not admit the population has gotten immensely fatter in the past 10-15 years.

No one.

I have literally counted fatties in my grocery stores, and actually now started to count skinnies because the fatties are so prevalent vis a vis the skinnies.

These people do not pass my eye tests of people that are "overweight" that arrived at their condition merely by overeating. As the study I cited mentioned, waist circumference as a key tell in the difference between genetically obese and the environmentally obese.

And more Priingles just doesn't explain the sheer explosion that has occurred particularly among those under 25.

So yes, I admit that I started with a conclusion and am working my way back, and no matter how many data charts you throw at me about calories consumed or black women's rate of abortion, I am not backing off on the undeniable premises.

White attractive women are having less children. That is statistical fact.

Women are waiting until later to have children if they do have children.

The number of Never Marrieds has increased phenomenally in the past 20 years.

Overall birth rate is dropping but it has dropped faster and sooner among white women.

The number of women having second children is dropping.

Obesity among children is rising in spite of education and awareness programs that have flooded this country for 15 years.

Ten years ago, mention of interdiction, even report card grade of children's wieght, exercise programs, school lunch diet changes. And yet it continues to rise.

And these trends are not something that happened overnight. They started 40 years ago as I detailed in my essay. And now they have reached critical mass to where they are in your face. Now they might be so in your face if a population that grow from 150 million to 225 million in 14 years grew exponential by the change rate of change in 28 years. You would surely be looking at huger population today. It grew by 50% in 14 years, It would have doubled in 20 to 300 million in 1970. We have 313 million today. There would easy be 500 million people today.

Now add 287 million people walking around and if my theory holds true, and that same ratio of 60% thin, 30% overweight and 10% obese as existed in 1960 and 1970, then 300 million of that 500 would be thin. And the obese would have more intermingled with the others.

Now that a lot of missing faces, thin attractive missing faces.

So if think its merely Pringles, well good for you. I don't.
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#23

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote:Quote:

They scream when you point out that they were born to eat a "seafood diet" meaning that when they "see food" and they fucking want to eat it, all of it, mountains of it

[Image: laughing-jamaican-o.gif]

Game/red pill article links

"Chicks dig power, men dig beauty, eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap, men are expendable, women are perishable." - Heartiste
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#24

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 06:10 PM)Mark Minter Wrote:  

Quote: (03-31-2013 05:01 PM)jammer Wrote:  

There is no evidence at all for your thin theory. All the data goes counter to it. For one, older women have more abortions than younger women. Minorities are disproportionately having more abortions than white girls so more than likely those minorities are less thin. 69% of abortion patients are economically disadvantaged. I'm pretty sure you know that there is a clear correlation between poverty and obesity. All the data clearly points to the opposite of your conclusion. Abortion probably saved us from a lot of obese and ugly people

First I would doubt that abortions are unique to economically disadvantaged, because my experience was well-to-do women quite frequently had abortions and in the 70s and 80s it was most common among college bound, college, and college educated women.

And any reduction on the prevalent group at period A will be greater manifested at period B than a equivalent reduction in a smaller group.

But second, abortion is only one factor in the issue. Birth Control is far more of factor. Data has shown white educated women delaying children until well into their 30s.

Second, it is no secret that these women are sexually active, almost to the point that the partner count of a typical attractive, middle or upper middle class woman often dwarfs that of equivalent men in her age group.

And even though maybe in earlier decades, the partner count might have lower, the frequency of sex was probably constant. Never in my life have I ever seen even average girls, much less 6s and above remain single unless there was a willful desire to do so. So most were like my ex-wife and other women I knew. They went from longer monogamous relationships maybe 2 or 3 that were 3 months in length to one that might last 2,3,4 years even with cohabitation that did not turn into marriage.

So they were still having regular sex, several times a week, often more. And yet the statistics show a declining birth rate from 1965 on to the point that in 1985 it was 60% of what it had been 20 years before.

So to me, birth control was far more responsible than abortions and possibly abortions may be of a higher incidence among lower income women exactly because until Obamacare, pills might not have covered under any insurance and birth control, doctors visits, and the cost of birth control was entirely a function disposable income. But that those that mean that when that 3% of birth control pill users got pregnant that they didn't get abortions.

What data has shown is that over the past 40 years, the number of children born to minorities, blacks and hispanics has increased as a total number of children born and the number of children born to whites has reduced the share of whites as a total percentage of babies born and overall within the population. In California alone, whites are in the minority.

That is an irrefutable statistic. Ask the fucking Republicans about it. Their electoral base is shrinking from declining birth rates as much as from any great ideological shift among its prior base of voters. Remember that great Fox rant on the night the elections about "Real Americans voted for Romney". Yes, a greater percentage of women voted for Obama vs Romney than for Kerry vs George Bush in 2004, But it was a constant value from the 2000 election. And in fact it grew due the changing demographics of the voters.

I admit that a lot of this is the eyeball test factor for me. And it is a theory that I have gone looking for proof as opposed to a straight conclusion that resulted from straight up data.

There was several studies that I found yesterday. This one is key. It is from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/2/275.full.pdf.

There was a seminal study from 20 years ago that greatly attributed obesity to Genetics and a follow up study to the findings from the first study still remain valid, these are studies based on twins, fraternal and identical, some separated at birth, others separated a some point in time.

And the general conclusion was that while environment plays an important part, the key was, and is genetics.

And this study even mention that reluctance of even researchers to attribute obesity to factors other than environment. And I can see that in reluctance of people to refuse to accept that anything other than behavior is responsible for obesity. Even in this thread.

It is like they want some damning evidence that fatties can do better, that it was that bag of chitos and not any genotypical tendency to possibly crave food more than you or me, to the point of pain, or that the tendency of their body to convert food that I could eat and not gain an ounce directly in adipose fatty tissue that sits right below the skin.

Now, no one can not admit the population has gotten immensely fatter in the past 10-15 years.

No one.

I have literally counted fatties in my grocery stores, and actually now started to count skinnies because the fatties are so prevalent vis a vis the skinnies.

These people do not pass my eye tests of people that are "overweight" that arrived at their condition merely by overeating. As the study I cited mentioned, waist circumference as a key tell in the difference between genetically obese and the environmentally obese.

And more Priingles just doesn't explain the sheer explosion that has occurred particularly among those under 25.

So yes, I admit that I started with a conclusion and am working my way back, and no matter how many data charts you throw at me about calories consumed or black women's rate of abortion, I am not backing off on the undeniable premises.

White attractive women are having less children. That is statistical fact.

Women are waiting until later to have children if they do have children.

The number of Never Marrieds has increased phenomenally in the past 20 years.

Overall birth rate is dropping but it has dropped faster and sooner among white women.

The number of women having second children is dropping.

Obesity among children is rising in spite of education and awareness programs that have flooded this country for 15 years.

Ten years ago, mention of interdiction, even report card grade of children's wieght, exercise programs, school lunch diet changes. And yet it continues to rise.

And these trends are not something that happened overnight. They started 40 years ago as I detailed in my essay. And now they have reached critical mass to where they are in your face. Now they might be so in your face if a population that grow from 150 million to 225 million in 14 years grew exponentially by the same rate of change over 28 years. You would surely be looking at huger population today. It grew by 50% in 14 years, It would have doubled in 20 years to 300 million in 1970. We have 313 million today. There would easy be 500 million people today.

Now add 187 million more people walking around and if my theory holds true, and that same ratio of 60% thin, 30% overweight and 10% obese as existed in 1960 and 1970, then 300 million of that 500 would be thin. And the obese would have more intermingled with the others.

Now that a lot of missing faces, thin attractive missing faces.

So if think its merely Pringles, well good for you. I don't.
Reply
#25

The Sexual Revolution led to the Obesity Epidemic

Quote: (03-31-2013 02:00 PM)durangotang Wrote:  

Excellent read. Thanks for posting. I visited some family recently in Tulsa, OK. I used to visit there as a kid quite frequently. That was in the 1980's and by today's standards it would be considered super thin back then. It was just normal. I live in Colorado and we are the most thin state in the Union in 2013, but comparatively we would have been the fattest state in the Union in the early 1990's. So living in the most thin state today you don't really understand how bad things have gotten. Before that I lived in Los Angeles, CA for a while which I don't recall being fat 8 years ago - at least on the west side. All I could think when I visited Tulsa was WTF happened? It was unreal - and this wasn't in a poor part of town, but one of the nicest. It was like an atomic bomb of obesity went off. I would walk through a nice grocery store and think that I saw the fattest person, only to hit the next aisle and see a 400 pounder - maybe more. I'd say 40-50% of the population was either extremely obese or morbidly obese. It truly was unreal - nothing like I remembered it.

It took traveling to a dark red state on this map to actually put in context what I have been reading about the obesity epidemic.

[Image: bYIS3bf.png]

Edit: Just to put what I wrote in context, 39% of the state of Oklahoma has either pre-diabetes or diabetes. Think about that.

I don't think I get to see it as much either. I live in CO now. Before that I was in Miami, most people take care of their bodies. Vegas has some fatties, but it's mostly the cats sitting there at the slots drinking and smoking all day or fat midwest tourists. Southern Cali people are in pretty decent shape. Those are the spots I've spent most of my time in the US. I think I may be shocked if I go to the midwest.
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