great writeup Vorkuta, quite interesting for me as I have lived in Moscow the past few years but still have not been to any of really smaller off the beaten path towns (just Peter, Nizhny Novgorod, Seregey Posad and Voronesh) and would like to at some point. Interesting experience - made a few notes to each of your bullet points to give you a flavour of what I've experienced living here for over 4 years:
"Just back from 12 days in Russia. I spent three days in Moscow and the rest in shit holes like Vorkuta,Vorgashor,Kotlas. Great trip but at times utterly brutal. Anyway a few thoughts and observations to share. Experts may or may not agree:
1. It is expensive. No I mean really expensive! Moscow is stupid. Paying 5 or 6 pounds for a pint of beer is normal on places like Tverskaya street or other central areas. Hit the suburbs if you are on a budget but even then it's not cheap.
Its crazy expensive here in Moscow. Basically anything imported is 50-100% more expensive, or more, than back home. Plus you still can't get a lot of things I could back home at say a Whole Foods or Costco at the grocery stores. Out of season things like blueberries are like $6-7 for 150 g. Also, the medium to high-end restaurants are all at London prices I'd say, and any trendy club in the city will cost you like $7-10 a beer or more, and $15-20 per drink (in line with NYC and London though I guess). You can forget buying clothes here for the most part unless you like $150-200 Levis or Diesel jeans. I basically do all my clothes shopping back home or when in London, and bring them back in a huge suitcase, along with things like pistachios, salad dressing, cashews, etc. The only thing cheap here are cigarettes (dirt cheap still, as in $1.50 a pack or sometimes less for Marlboro Reds) and Vodka (which is getting more expensive due to the government cracking down via alcohol taxes, but still really cheap for some incredible vodkas)
2. Don't expect prices to drop too much in the provinces. The issue is lack of choice. I rocked up in Kotlas and the only central hotel I found charged 50 pounds a night and it was utterly shit,no sheets and situated above a club that blasted music until 5 am. I might have found another but after 24 hours on a train I could not be assed hitting the streets searching. Your best bet for cheap food are canteens where 5 pounds can get you a semi decent meal and drink of juice.
I thought restaurants in NN were about half price versus Moscow (and we ate in one of the priciest ones in town) but yeah agree that the supermarkets are almost the same, as are most of the other daily essentials. Biggest thing is I could not find an Azbuka Vkuza or Sedmoi Continent (upscale supermarkets) in NN or Voronesh, so the more gourmet items were tough to find. The hotels are in short supply as you said and expensive - u get zero value for hotels generally in Russia - in Moscow they are incredibly expensive. Even in St. Petersburg I don't see any deals mostly. It's kind of like the SF hotel market in the US...lot of dated hotels with sub-par furnishings and exorbitant prices (bc they know that the business and tourist crowd will pay and keep coming).
3. The shit holes are rough. Groups of Gopniks stroll about and eye you. Taxi drivers try to rip you off. Service staff are utterly rude. I asked one waitress in a cafe if she could repeat something slower as I don't speak great Russian. Her reply was "you are in my country,I'll speak as fast as I want". It can wear you down after a while and all you want is to see a friendly face or meet a friendly open person to communicate with.
Can't speak to this, but did walk around Voronesh and get a little off the beaten path a bit and it was like a time-warp - ran into dirt roads, ramshackle houses, run down areas...really eye opening coming from Moscow.
4. Pretty much no women in the provinces gives a shit that you are foreign. Not once did a waitress or hotel worker hear my accent and ask where I was from. I spent 24 hours in a train carriage with a girl from a shit hole called Syktyvkar. Not once in those hours did she ask where I was from. Moscovites are more inquisitive than hell hole residents.
Even in Moscow the 'foreigner' angle is not nowhere near where it once was, even 4-5 years ago. There are so many minigarchs running around spoiling women, or married guys with tons of cash dating 4-5 hotties at a time, taking them to Italy to shop or Turkey for a beach weekend etc. that a lot of the girls in their early 20s or with a kid figure out that's a way to go and that screws things up for all of us expats. I remember my first two years here you could go down to the center and just act dumb and speak English and look like a foreigner and get into any club - nowadays you better get down there by 11:30-12 if you expect to get in unless you have an angle (which of course I usually do!![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
) It’s not as bad as NYC but still there can be a decent amount of rope burn at the more popular clubs - and they will turn away women u are with too.
If you don't speak any Russian it's also tougher, even in Moscow, as you are just out of luck most of the time. That said, the girls under 25 all seem to at least know a little English these days, despite telling you they don't (bc they are afraid to speak it).
5. You have to be up for doing approaches. If not then stay home or use Mamba. Nothing falls into your lap in Russia. Don't think that as foreigner women will come over to you, you have to be an approach machine. If you are not confident in approaching go elsewhere. Everything that happened I had to make happen.
100% agree. Maybe it's just me, and I know my game needs a lot of work and I can improve, but I feel like you have to work for everything here and there are few free handouts. But if you do the work you will get rewarded (unlike back home where even if you get a number 75% of the time they don't even bother to call you back or sms u, here I almost always get at least a response and a meet up out of digits).
6. Take a laptop with you. I was expecting everywhere I went to have internet cafes. I was wrong and it cost me big time as I could not use Mamba to pipeline. A city as large as Vorkuta had no internet cafe. I had wifi in places but could not use Mamba on my phone so had to struggle. I don't use Mamba as a rule but when it's minus 30c you need it as street game is tough.
I'm living here so can't really comment, but yeah I can see how it would be hard to find an internet cafe in the shitholes. Wireless service is pretty good here, and so is the TV/wifi package I have - $60/month with like 200 channels (10-12 HD) and internet.
7. In the shit holes you must be switched on all the time. Hesitate and you lose an approach opportunity. If a girl looks and smiles at you go straight in, another invitation might not happen for a week. Example: I got a taxi ride in my first hour in Kotlas. Three girls on a side walk saw me drive past and started waiving and smiling ( they know a foreigner when they see one ). I hesitated to tell the driver to stop by which time we were down the road out of sight. Wrong decision,I never met any friendly types in the town after that. Stay switched on and pounce immediately. When I did I had success more so then cold approaching without first getting a smile.
Sounds about right to me.
8. The shit holes are boring as hell. I have a mate who once told me how he had met good looking girls in Russian towns but it was so dull there that he could not physically bring himself to hang around for the dating ritual. I snorted at that idea a little. Then I number closed a nice 20 year old girl in a shit hole called Vorgashor. Kind of girl you'd marry back home. We had a date and told me she would like to go to a club with me on Friday. The problem was it was Tuesday and I could not bring myself to wait. It was so utterly dull there. If you are hitting shit holes take a wing who speaks your language. You will have a much better time. I would have been much more high energy with a good mate to have a laugh with. Would have done better too.
This has gotta be true in the shitholes in general. Voronesh was pretty boring after a quick day of sightseeing, and it's almost a million people. Being stuck in some small rinky-dink town in the middle of winter would just plain suck (it's bad enough in Moscow, especially when it's -25 C and dark from 4pm until 10am the next day!)
9. Eye fucking happens a lot but it does not equate to interest necessarily. In my country when eye fucked I can go in expecting a positive response from the girl. In Russia I was eye fucked a lot but when I then approached I often got little response. In the end I stopped noticing.
Pretty much my experience too....still haven't really figured this one out, maybe it's as Roosh says they want to play with you?
10. Negging worked less well than at home. It worked but I had to do it much gentler. It's not true that it does not work at all but be careful.
I'm still trying to improve my game but even with my limited negging experience agree with this - Russian girls don't like it when you imply things are wrong with them generally and if they want to take sh*t they can get it from any Russian guy or their boyfriend. Think you still stand out better looking like the exotic westerner who is more considerate of women - not always but most of the time. Like Roosh says the Beta guys are almost Alpha in EE in some ways, as there are so many crooks, thugs alkies and other low life’s here sometimes girls just want a good guy who won't be an a-hole, beat them, call them a wh*re etc.
11. Dress for the weather! I unexpectedly went to the Arctic and only had European clothes. It's hard to be motivated when your feet are freezing and you are shivering with cold.
+1000. It's so cold here during winter, almost at another level to what I've experienced. You better bring a big heavy coat and lots of undergarments + boots if you want to survive.
12. English levels in the provinces are appalling. I never met one girl in 9 days who I could have a decent conversation with in English. My Russian was always better than their English. I could work with that but if you speak zero Russian I think you'd be fucked unless you struck lucky.
English levels are still pretty bad in Moscow, no matter what the locals try to tell you. I always notice when I hear someone who's not speaking Russian as they stand out. And there are pretty much zero signs in English around town to help you in the metro, on the highway, on the trains, etc. My game picked up dramatically after I'd spent 3 months on the ground and had very basic Russian where I could introduce myself, say a few things and carry on a very basic conversation.
13. You need to be in the country for at least 10 days to get anywhere or at least I do. It was only on my last two days that I was well into my rhythm and doing well. The provinces I got no action but numbers and dates but again I could not stay long enough to follow through. A native can probably get a close after three dates. I felt I would need 4 or 5.
Pretty much agree. I've had a few one night stands & a couple 'meet Friday and get digits and b@ng on Sunday' experiences but most of my quality scores have been after 2-3 dates. I think guys with more game than me could do better of course but I think for the 7-8+ crowd I deal with you need to do a little work and Russian girls like you to go through the motions.
14. Moscow is epic! If it had Kiev prices I'd be there now. Unfortunately it's too rich for my blood but my god what a city full of opportunities. Everyone should go once. Better attitudes than Kiev too in my experience. Never had bitchy attitudes when I chatted to women although I never hit exclusive clubs so might be different there.
Hmnnn...it's awesome here for sure, but for the 8.5-9+ crowd a lot of them seem to be "Sponsor' seekers or just b*tchy single moms who want to take it out on guys and make them suffer even if they end up banging them. If they are < say 23-4 they are usually sans attitude, but after that it can be hit or miss. At the big clubs like Soho Rooms, ICON, Krisha, Prestige etc. there always seem to be a ton of career party types, many who get paid to hang out there I think, who are just a ton of work and looking for oligarch sponsors, so buyer beware as you can waste a ton of time and money on them for little reward and even if you get the bang was it worth it?
17. Despite any negatives I have painted of provincial types I experienced acts of incredible generosity and kindness from random people I met. People shared their food and drink with me. Insisted on showing me their towns. Took me out for meals. Russians are incredibly hospitable far more than in the west. I was on a train carriage full of rough miners covered in prison tattoos, tough menacing looking types who were drunk and fighting with each other ( some got carted off the train by police at Yaroslavl ) but when they found out I was foreign they were generous to a fault and respectful and would not swear in my presence. The women were also sweet and feminine and fun to chat to or go on a date with but they are conservative. MUCH more than in my country.
Yeah I've seen this too, even in Moscow. People are just somewhat more 'normal' here in a weird way, and more old school and living for the day/moment as opposed to the stupid way we do in the West. It's probably like 1950-60 here now in many ways, replete with people smoking everywhere, zero feminism, and everyone just living day to day with no bs about how they are going to 'retire at 65 and then live like a king' while working themselves to the bone and having no fun.
"Just back from 12 days in Russia. I spent three days in Moscow and the rest in shit holes like Vorkuta,Vorgashor,Kotlas. Great trip but at times utterly brutal. Anyway a few thoughts and observations to share. Experts may or may not agree:
1. It is expensive. No I mean really expensive! Moscow is stupid. Paying 5 or 6 pounds for a pint of beer is normal on places like Tverskaya street or other central areas. Hit the suburbs if you are on a budget but even then it's not cheap.
Its crazy expensive here in Moscow. Basically anything imported is 50-100% more expensive, or more, than back home. Plus you still can't get a lot of things I could back home at say a Whole Foods or Costco at the grocery stores. Out of season things like blueberries are like $6-7 for 150 g. Also, the medium to high-end restaurants are all at London prices I'd say, and any trendy club in the city will cost you like $7-10 a beer or more, and $15-20 per drink (in line with NYC and London though I guess). You can forget buying clothes here for the most part unless you like $150-200 Levis or Diesel jeans. I basically do all my clothes shopping back home or when in London, and bring them back in a huge suitcase, along with things like pistachios, salad dressing, cashews, etc. The only thing cheap here are cigarettes (dirt cheap still, as in $1.50 a pack or sometimes less for Marlboro Reds) and Vodka (which is getting more expensive due to the government cracking down via alcohol taxes, but still really cheap for some incredible vodkas)
2. Don't expect prices to drop too much in the provinces. The issue is lack of choice. I rocked up in Kotlas and the only central hotel I found charged 50 pounds a night and it was utterly shit,no sheets and situated above a club that blasted music until 5 am. I might have found another but after 24 hours on a train I could not be assed hitting the streets searching. Your best bet for cheap food are canteens where 5 pounds can get you a semi decent meal and drink of juice.
I thought restaurants in NN were about half price versus Moscow (and we ate in one of the priciest ones in town) but yeah agree that the supermarkets are almost the same, as are most of the other daily essentials. Biggest thing is I could not find an Azbuka Vkuza or Sedmoi Continent (upscale supermarkets) in NN or Voronesh, so the more gourmet items were tough to find. The hotels are in short supply as you said and expensive - u get zero value for hotels generally in Russia - in Moscow they are incredibly expensive. Even in St. Petersburg I don't see any deals mostly. It's kind of like the SF hotel market in the US...lot of dated hotels with sub-par furnishings and exorbitant prices (bc they know that the business and tourist crowd will pay and keep coming).
3. The shit holes are rough. Groups of Gopniks stroll about and eye you. Taxi drivers try to rip you off. Service staff are utterly rude. I asked one waitress in a cafe if she could repeat something slower as I don't speak great Russian. Her reply was "you are in my country,I'll speak as fast as I want". It can wear you down after a while and all you want is to see a friendly face or meet a friendly open person to communicate with.
Can't speak to this, but did walk around Voronesh and get a little off the beaten path a bit and it was like a time-warp - ran into dirt roads, ramshackle houses, run down areas...really eye opening coming from Moscow.
4. Pretty much no women in the provinces gives a shit that you are foreign. Not once did a waitress or hotel worker hear my accent and ask where I was from. I spent 24 hours in a train carriage with a girl from a shit hole called Syktyvkar. Not once in those hours did she ask where I was from. Moscovites are more inquisitive than hell hole residents.
Even in Moscow the 'foreigner' angle is not nowhere near where it once was, even 4-5 years ago. There are so many minigarchs running around spoiling women, or married guys with tons of cash dating 4-5 hotties at a time, taking them to Italy to shop or Turkey for a beach weekend etc. that a lot of the girls in their early 20s or with a kid figure out that's a way to go and that screws things up for all of us expats. I remember my first two years here you could go down to the center and just act dumb and speak English and look like a foreigner and get into any club - nowadays you better get down there by 11:30-12 if you expect to get in unless you have an angle (which of course I usually do!
) It’s not as bad as NYC but still there can be a decent amount of rope burn at the more popular clubs - and they will turn away women u are with too.If you don't speak any Russian it's also tougher, even in Moscow, as you are just out of luck most of the time. That said, the girls under 25 all seem to at least know a little English these days, despite telling you they don't (bc they are afraid to speak it).
5. You have to be up for doing approaches. If not then stay home or use Mamba. Nothing falls into your lap in Russia. Don't think that as foreigner women will come over to you, you have to be an approach machine. If you are not confident in approaching go elsewhere. Everything that happened I had to make happen.
100% agree. Maybe it's just me, and I know my game needs a lot of work and I can improve, but I feel like you have to work for everything here and there are few free handouts. But if you do the work you will get rewarded (unlike back home where even if you get a number 75% of the time they don't even bother to call you back or sms u, here I almost always get at least a response and a meet up out of digits).
6. Take a laptop with you. I was expecting everywhere I went to have internet cafes. I was wrong and it cost me big time as I could not use Mamba to pipeline. A city as large as Vorkuta had no internet cafe. I had wifi in places but could not use Mamba on my phone so had to struggle. I don't use Mamba as a rule but when it's minus 30c you need it as street game is tough.
I'm living here so can't really comment, but yeah I can see how it would be hard to find an internet cafe in the shitholes. Wireless service is pretty good here, and so is the TV/wifi package I have - $60/month with like 200 channels (10-12 HD) and internet.
7. In the shit holes you must be switched on all the time. Hesitate and you lose an approach opportunity. If a girl looks and smiles at you go straight in, another invitation might not happen for a week. Example: I got a taxi ride in my first hour in Kotlas. Three girls on a side walk saw me drive past and started waiving and smiling ( they know a foreigner when they see one ). I hesitated to tell the driver to stop by which time we were down the road out of sight. Wrong decision,I never met any friendly types in the town after that. Stay switched on and pounce immediately. When I did I had success more so then cold approaching without first getting a smile.
Sounds about right to me.
8. The shit holes are boring as hell. I have a mate who once told me how he had met good looking girls in Russian towns but it was so dull there that he could not physically bring himself to hang around for the dating ritual. I snorted at that idea a little. Then I number closed a nice 20 year old girl in a shit hole called Vorgashor. Kind of girl you'd marry back home. We had a date and told me she would like to go to a club with me on Friday. The problem was it was Tuesday and I could not bring myself to wait. It was so utterly dull there. If you are hitting shit holes take a wing who speaks your language. You will have a much better time. I would have been much more high energy with a good mate to have a laugh with. Would have done better too.
This has gotta be true in the shitholes in general. Voronesh was pretty boring after a quick day of sightseeing, and it's almost a million people. Being stuck in some small rinky-dink town in the middle of winter would just plain suck (it's bad enough in Moscow, especially when it's -25 C and dark from 4pm until 10am the next day!)
9. Eye fucking happens a lot but it does not equate to interest necessarily. In my country when eye fucked I can go in expecting a positive response from the girl. In Russia I was eye fucked a lot but when I then approached I often got little response. In the end I stopped noticing.
Pretty much my experience too....still haven't really figured this one out, maybe it's as Roosh says they want to play with you?
10. Negging worked less well than at home. It worked but I had to do it much gentler. It's not true that it does not work at all but be careful.
I'm still trying to improve my game but even with my limited negging experience agree with this - Russian girls don't like it when you imply things are wrong with them generally and if they want to take sh*t they can get it from any Russian guy or their boyfriend. Think you still stand out better looking like the exotic westerner who is more considerate of women - not always but most of the time. Like Roosh says the Beta guys are almost Alpha in EE in some ways, as there are so many crooks, thugs alkies and other low life’s here sometimes girls just want a good guy who won't be an a-hole, beat them, call them a wh*re etc.
11. Dress for the weather! I unexpectedly went to the Arctic and only had European clothes. It's hard to be motivated when your feet are freezing and you are shivering with cold.
+1000. It's so cold here during winter, almost at another level to what I've experienced. You better bring a big heavy coat and lots of undergarments + boots if you want to survive.
12. English levels in the provinces are appalling. I never met one girl in 9 days who I could have a decent conversation with in English. My Russian was always better than their English. I could work with that but if you speak zero Russian I think you'd be fucked unless you struck lucky.
English levels are still pretty bad in Moscow, no matter what the locals try to tell you. I always notice when I hear someone who's not speaking Russian as they stand out. And there are pretty much zero signs in English around town to help you in the metro, on the highway, on the trains, etc. My game picked up dramatically after I'd spent 3 months on the ground and had very basic Russian where I could introduce myself, say a few things and carry on a very basic conversation.
13. You need to be in the country for at least 10 days to get anywhere or at least I do. It was only on my last two days that I was well into my rhythm and doing well. The provinces I got no action but numbers and dates but again I could not stay long enough to follow through. A native can probably get a close after three dates. I felt I would need 4 or 5.
Pretty much agree. I've had a few one night stands & a couple 'meet Friday and get digits and b@ng on Sunday' experiences but most of my quality scores have been after 2-3 dates. I think guys with more game than me could do better of course but I think for the 7-8+ crowd I deal with you need to do a little work and Russian girls like you to go through the motions.
14. Moscow is epic! If it had Kiev prices I'd be there now. Unfortunately it's too rich for my blood but my god what a city full of opportunities. Everyone should go once. Better attitudes than Kiev too in my experience. Never had bitchy attitudes when I chatted to women although I never hit exclusive clubs so might be different there.
Hmnnn...it's awesome here for sure, but for the 8.5-9+ crowd a lot of them seem to be "Sponsor' seekers or just b*tchy single moms who want to take it out on guys and make them suffer even if they end up banging them. If they are < say 23-4 they are usually sans attitude, but after that it can be hit or miss. At the big clubs like Soho Rooms, ICON, Krisha, Prestige etc. there always seem to be a ton of career party types, many who get paid to hang out there I think, who are just a ton of work and looking for oligarch sponsors, so buyer beware as you can waste a ton of time and money on them for little reward and even if you get the bang was it worth it?
17. Despite any negatives I have painted of provincial types I experienced acts of incredible generosity and kindness from random people I met. People shared their food and drink with me. Insisted on showing me their towns. Took me out for meals. Russians are incredibly hospitable far more than in the west. I was on a train carriage full of rough miners covered in prison tattoos, tough menacing looking types who were drunk and fighting with each other ( some got carted off the train by police at Yaroslavl ) but when they found out I was foreign they were generous to a fault and respectful and would not swear in my presence. The women were also sweet and feminine and fun to chat to or go on a date with but they are conservative. MUCH more than in my country.
Yeah I've seen this too, even in Moscow. People are just somewhat more 'normal' here in a weird way, and more old school and living for the day/moment as opposed to the stupid way we do in the West. It's probably like 1950-60 here now in many ways, replete with people smoking everywhere, zero feminism, and everyone just living day to day with no bs about how they are going to 'retire at 65 and then live like a king' while working themselves to the bone and having no fun.
2015 RVF fantasy football champion
