[Sonsowey]

So ive just signed up for a gym and want to get bigger. I usually eat lots of protein in a day, but have neve consistebtlyr used protein powders. Are there people out there whove gotten big without using protein supplements?

[Every10GivesMeA10]

(whey) Protein powder = food.

You can get big by eating chicken breast as only protein source. You can also get big by drinking protein shakes as your only protein source.

[Hades]

It's easy. Just eat an extra two to four hardboiled eggs at breakfast and an extra chicken breast at dinner. I think it works out to roughly the right amount.

Even so, if you're on a program that's worth your time you should be able to make some serious newbie gains for five or six months if you train hard enough. If you have never trained before, make sure to hit squats, deads, bench, overhead press, rows, and chinups and eat like fat bastard from austin powers.
Keep in mind that overtraining is not real if you eat and sleep enough.

[reino341]

Ideally whey should be used a supplement -- i.e. when you just can't for whatever reason eat a propel meal -- not as a staple of your daily nutrition.

[Ryre]

I heartily second the idea of eating a ton, especially if you are a lightly built dude with a fast metabolism like me. I'd heard for years that diet accounts for a big percentage of your gains, but only in the last few years have I understood what that meant.

When I gained the most size and strength, I was making a determined effort to eat as much as I could. Four-egg breakfasts with lots of oil or butter. Steak and potatoes for dinner. Before bed, I'd have a smoothie of whole milk, full fat yogurt, a banana, couple big tablespoons of peanut butter, honey, and whey protein. I'm talking eating when you aren't hungry. It is worth it when you are getting bigger and stronger literally week by week.

[Bad Hussar]

(02-27-2013 11:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

....
Keep in mind that overtraining is not real if you eat and sleep enough.

Hades
Can you expand on this perhaps?

I'm currently on the stronglifts 5x5 program, but only started a couple of months back. I'm having real issues with the 3x per week squats. In my opinion I'm never resting my legs and am in a more or less constant state of muscular fatigue. My pulse is also a little elevated (by around 5 bpm) which I understand is a sign of over training.

Any tips aside from eating and sleeping sufficiently to deal with week after week of hard workouts?

[Every10GivesMeA10]

(02-27-2013 12:14 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(02-27-2013 11:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

....
Keep in mind that overtraining is not real if you eat and sleep enough.

Hades
Can you expand on this perhaps?

I'm currently on the stronglifts 5x5 program, but only started a couple of months back. I'm having real issues with the 3x per week squats. In my opinion I'm never resting my legs and am in a more or less constant state of muscular fatigue. My pulse is also a little elevated (by around 5 bpm) which I understand is a sign of over training.

Any tips aside from eating and sleeping sufficiently to deal with week after week of hard workouts?

You are probably going to failure each and every set.

[Kitsune]

GOMAD. Lift Heavy.

[lush1]

See: people in prison.

[Hades]

(02-27-2013 12:14 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

(02-27-2013 11:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

....
Keep in mind that overtraining is not real if you eat and sleep enough.

Hades
Can you expand on this perhaps?

I'm currently on the stronglifts 5x5 program, but only started a couple of months back. I'm having real issues with the 3x per week squats. In my opinion I'm never resting my legs and am in a more or less constant state of muscular fatigue. My pulse is also a little elevated (by around 5 bpm) which I understand is a sign of over training.

Any tips aside from eating and sleeping sufficiently to deal with week after week of hard workouts?

I squat or deadlift or both almost every day and don't suffer from fatigue issues. I am not 100% familiar with Stronglifts but I assume that it's three times a week? Could you flesh out a typical week?

Basically overtraining doesn't exist, it only "happens" when undereating and undersleeping.
If you're eating four or five fairly fatty meals a day (and drinking tons of water), lifting heavy, and getting in 8 to 10 hours of sleep a night (I wholeheartedly recommend sleeping in the window from 10PM to 200AM every night or your sleep won't produce as many hormones needed for growth) and a nap every couple of days, then you can lift for like two hours a day, five days a week for the first three to six months of training and put on stupid amounts of muscle.

I'll put this in bullets because I reread it and it's confusing. Avoid symptoms of overtraining by -

• Eating heavy and fatty meals
• Drinking at least three liters of water per day
• Lifting heavy but never to failure
• Sleeping before 10PM and for at least eight hours
• Doing supplementary strength exercises and back-off sets
  

A couple of long walks a week can't hurt either. I've walked out soreness before, it feels strange but it can be done.

[thegmanifesto]

(02-27-2013 12:31 PM)lush1 Wrote:  

See: people in prison.

Good point.

Not sure if these cats took protein powder:

[jmoney29]

I am somewhat big without protein powder. Costco is my best friend. Bone in chicken thighs are $1 a pound and boneless is $2 a pound. I get different spice mixes every week and bake enough for a whole weeks lunch. They also have potatoes at 25c a pound.

[Bad Hussar]

^^^ Hades

Thanks for the info Hades. The Stronglists program is basically Squats 3x per week and Bench press and the two other exercises. Overhead Press, Rows and Deadlifts every second workout. All 5x5 except deadlift which is 1x5. As Every said I am basically going very close to failure every squat session. I've upped my calorie intake significantly since it is my intention to gain a moderate amount of healthy weight, and am succeeding on that front. Sleep may well be an issue since I reckon I get only around 7 hours, which is probably not enough.

[reino341]

Aren't guys in prison naturally inclined to have mad gainz because they're swimming in testosterone and therefore more aggressive.

[Moma]

(02-27-2013 12:47 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(02-27-2013 12:31 PM)lush1 Wrote:  

See: people in prison.

Good point.

Not sure if these cats took protein powder:

Semen is also high in protein.

[Hannibal]

Here's a decent guide to cheap ass sources of protein.
You'll want ideally 1 gram of protein per lb of mass. I'm not sure if that's lean mass or total body mass, but whatever. Try to get somewhat near it.

copied this off of teenbodybuilding.com

Milk - 1 glass 8 grams of protein
Yogurt - 1 cup 6 grams of protein
String cheese - 1 stick 8 grams
Eggs - 1 egg 8 grams of protein
Steak - 7 oz steak 34 grams of protein
Chicken - 3 oz breast 24 grams of protein
Turkey - 3 oz breast 22 grams of protein
Tuna - 3/4 cup 15 grams of protein
Fish - 3 oz 24 grams of protein
Peanut butter - 2 table spoons 8 grams of protein
Beans - 1 cup 10 grams of protein

As you can tell, fish is a very high source of quality protein. It wouldn't hurt to make friends with a butcher, either. I don't know where you live, but where I'm from, you could go on a couple fishing trips and fill your freezer for a year. Fish, unlike deer and shit, is stupid easy to clean.

If you eat beans, I suggest eating rice with it. Supposedly, there's a synergistic effect whereby the incomplete proteins in beans are complemented by the incomplete proteins in rice to form a complete protein. It's not as good as meat, but there are "vegan" bodybuilders out there who do build muscle with crap like this. I don't recommend eating beans and rice because it will play hell with your digestive system, but if you're that hard up for cheap sources, this will get the job done. There's a lot of people out there who don't agree with paleo dieting, which is fine, but know that there are people out there who develop some pretty serious auto immune diseases from the lectins in legumes and the hard to digest proteins in pasteurized milk (I think it's proteins, it's been a year since I read the book). Granted, the problems associated with it take years to develop and some people have the correct flora and fauna in their guts to deal with them, so there's that.

There's also protein in some bread products like Wheaties. If I understood my readings about nutrition, it's not quite the same as the protein found in meat, but it will get the job done.

Also, get at least 8 hours of quality sleep a night.

[TheKantian]

Protein powder is too expensive to be using as anything other than a post-workout shake or pre-workout shake.

[renotime]

Mark Sisson on eating clean and bulking up:

He basically advises eating a lot of meat, sprinting, and lifting heavy shit.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gain-weig...z2M87vYgYe

If you don't like that, you can always try GOMAD.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

Gomad?

[reaper23]

seriously? get out of here with that pic.

[Hannibal]

I'll be honest, I lol'd at the part where it says "udder perfection".

That guy needs to go on a good paleo cut.

[Enigma]

(02-27-2013 11:25 AM)Hades Wrote:  

It's easy. Just eat an extra two to four hardboiled eggs at breakfast and an extra chicken breast at dinner. I think it works out to roughly the right amount.

Even so, if you're on a program that's worth your time you should be able to make some serious newbie gains for five or six months if you train hard enough. If you have never trained before, make sure to hit squats, deads, bench, overhead press, rows, and chinups and eat like fat bastard from austin powers.
Keep in mind that overtraining is not real if you eat and sleep enough.

This is absolutely ridiculous and beyond dangerous advice.

(02-27-2013 12:37 PM)Hades Wrote:  

I squat or deadlift or both almost every day and don't suffer from fatigue issues. I am not 100% familiar with Stronglifts but I assume that it's three times a week? Could you flesh out a typical week?

Basically overtraining doesn't exist, it only "happens" when undereating and undersleeping.
If you're eating four or five fairly fatty meals a day (and drinking tons of water), lifting heavy, and getting in 8 to 10 hours of sleep a night (I wholeheartedly recommend sleeping in the window from 10PM to 200AM every night or your sleep won't produce as many hormones needed for growth) and a nap every couple of days, then you can lift for like two hours a day, five days a week for the first three to six months of training and put on stupid amounts of muscle.

I'll put this in bullets because I reread it and it's confusing. Avoid symptoms of overtraining by -

• Eating heavy and fatty meals
• Drinking at least three liters of water per day
• Lifting heavy but never to failure
• Sleeping before 10PM and for at least eight hours
• Doing supplementary strength exercises and back-off sets
  

A couple of long walks a week can't hurt either. I've walked out soreness before, it feels strange but it can be done.

So because you can work out 2 hours for 5 days a week with proper rest and nutrition it is impossible to overtrain?

What if you doubled, tripled, quadrupled that amount? What if you trained for marathons while also squatting for 5 hours a day? You're basically saying you won't overtrain if you don't overtrain. That is not the same thing as overtraining being an impossibility.

[MikeCF]

Re: Overtraining. Vast majority of guys are undertraining rather than overtraining. How many guys do you see who make gains in the gym, year after year? Very few. That's because they've been fed hysteria about overtraining and don't train with intensity.

Anyone every play high school football. By the logic of the overtraining crowd, two-a-days would have killed you. Instead your body got used to it, supercompensated, and you were fine.

Re: protein. Every big guy has jugs of protein powder in his house. Getting enough protein is hard unless you want a huge "food gut" all day form eating pounds of chicken breast. Don't mess with the script. Drink your shakes.

[Hannibal]

Long distance running is a terrible idea in general. I'm not talking about guys who like to run two or three miles at a crack, I'm talking about marathon training.

I'll just cite this article here so I don't have a massive wall o' text.

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2011/04...ience.html

Not safe for work. It's important to note that the article I cited isn't his only one on long distance training, there's about ten of them.

Let's say for example that this guy has no life and he quadrupled that amount. Let's say he worked out 8 hours a day.

This has been done by the Bulgarians for their olympic training. The remedy for that kind of training is to eat and sleep more and to never train to failure, which is precisely what Hades told the OP to do.

http://www.criticalbench.com/bulgarian-w...ifting.htm

Would you say that construction workers and stonemasons overtrain? A lot of them pick up some fairly heavy shit 8 to 10 hours a day on a diet of cheese and beer. I'm being completely serious here. If you got paid to work out for 8 hours a day five days a week, you would manage.

You can't do starting strength if you're not eating and sleeping properly. This guy wants to get big, he not only should train with a good workload, he should be informed that undereating and undersleeping are the main culprits behind the "dreaded overtraining plague".

Here's some more food for thought. This is not safe for work.

http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2010/05...2c830ead1a

(02-27-2013 04:31 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

This is absolutely ridiculous and beyond dangerous advice.

....


So because you can work out 2 hours for 5 days a week with proper rest and nutrition it is impossible to overtrain?

What if you doubled, tripled, quadrupled that amount? What if you trained for marathons while also squatting for 5 hours a day? You're basically saying you won't overtrain if you don't overtrain. That is not the same thing as overtraining being an impossibility.

[rmo]

Nothing constructive to say, just look at marathon runners (is that what you want to look like?), but props to Hannibal for chaos and pain links, that shit is so funny and dark in general.