[Aliblahba]

(02-28-2013 07:51 AM)FitAsFuck Wrote:  

Actually have overtraining as a topic for an upcoming blog-post. But just a few short points on that subject. Having spent 5-6 weeks preparing for a short-deadline competition in CF, I ramped up my intensity and workload by a factor 4-6, and was absolutely not sedantary up until that point. I was really impressed as to how much the body is able to adapt, as long as you keep a few things in mind.

Can you overtrain, and/or get into a state of overtraining - I believe so - I touched close to it, read the signs, and was back in full effect within a day or two. However it was my own fault, and I now know how to avoid it.

Keeping adequate sleep, enough good quality food - then you can really push it, and I mean REALLY push it.

Keeping to many distractions, too much stress from work, life, whatever - then you will within a short period of time feel a dip in motivation towards the training goals that before made you all fired up - your body's way of telling you to relax a little.

But I totally agree that 98% of people who worry about overtraining are by no means training hard enough to get even close.

You guys should also remember to keep the goal in mind. Yes, the body can keep adapting to whatever you throw at it - does is mean that this is the best approach for gaining muscle or the best approach for gaining strength - probably not.

Best post on this thread so far.

[Freedom]

In January I drank protein 50-75 grams per day, February I ran out and am sticking to lean meats 12-16oz x 3/day.

For me over-training is doing more sets than you think. In January I was doing 3-4 sets of 5 reps of max weight, and never really got sore. I was progressing but somewhat slowly. If you stretch and ingest l-glutamine such as Purple Wrath or NOXplode, you won't feel sore. Starting mid-February, I am beginning to feel a bit sore because I changed my routine again. I am going HARD spending 1.5 hours in the gym 5-6 days/week.

This time I am doubling my sets and dividing my reps by half. So for any compound exercise I do 6-8 sets with 2-4 reps. I apply this for the 3 compound exercise types so a total of 24 sets on a muscle group. Then I will do burnout sets until failure such as 2-3 sets of 40 reps half of my max weight. Since the last 2 weeks I can see a clear visible difference of my muscle gains including slight soreness, but that is what cold showers are for.

Don't forget to use ICE to speed up recovery!

[Jaylow]

There is no such thing as "good quality food" or eating "clean". Its all about the nutrients the food is made up of. I got a 6 pack eating 3-4 Wendy's baconators a week, is that eating clean?

Quote:

Then I will do burnout sets until failure such as 2-3 sets of 40 reps half of my max weight

This is not adding muscle and is more than likely counter productive. The burn or pump you feel after a workout is no indicator of muscle gain.

[Hannibal]

What happened to getting bigger without protein powder?

[Giovonny]

(02-27-2013 11:20 AM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Are there people out there who've gotten big without using protein supplements?

Guys were getting big way before protein powder was ever invented.

Chicken, fish, steak, lamb, goat, buffalo, eggs, milk, nuts, quinoa, water.

I like using quality protein powder cause its easier to digest. Eating alot stresses the stomach and digestive track.

(02-27-2013 12:14 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

Any tips aside from eating and sleeping sufficiently to deal with week after week of hard workouts?

Stretch, stretch, stretch.

Get a massage.

Sit in a hot tub and stretch in there.

Do yoga.

Get another massage, keep stretching.

Blow a load in your girls mouth. (No joke)

Stretch again.

This will remove soreness.

(02-27-2013 12:37 PM)Hades Wrote:  

• Eating heavy and fatty meals
• Drinking at least three liters of water per day
• Lifting heavy but never to failure
• Sleeping before 10PM and for at least eight hours
• Doing supplementary strength exercises and back-off sets
  

Great fucking list! Hades knows what he's talking about.

(02-27-2013 12:37 PM)Hades Wrote:  

A couple of long walks a week can't hurt either. I've walked out soreness before,

Yes, walking is a great, simple way to loosening up the muscles.

(02-27-2013 12:37 PM)Hades Wrote:  

(I wholeheartedly recommend sleeping in the window from 10PM to 200AM

This is the x factor for alot of guys. This can make or break your workouts.

Too many guys are not getting enough sleep!

Hormones are created between 10pm-2am. (22:00-2:00) If you are awake during this time your body will not generate the hormones and testosterone you need to recover and grow. You will age faster.

Proper sleep is the most under-ratted aspect of getting bigger, stronger, and faster.

--

Can you over train???

Yes, but you have to workout like an olympic or professional athlete to do it. I'm talking about working out for 6-8 hours a day. If you are pushing your body to the max and working out with intensity for 5-8 hours a day, you might over train, other then that, you probably have nothing to worry about.

It's much more likely that you will fatigue yourself from not resting/sleeping enough and/or not fueling yourself properly.

It's much more likely that you will injure yourself from not getting a proper warm up and/or using good form.

It's much more likely that you will under train.

[FitAsFuck]

(02-28-2013 01:18 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Hormones are created between 10pm-2am. (22:00-2:00)

Out of pure curiosity, do you have any studies, that support this claim? Have done a lot of reading on sleep, and we agree totally on the importance of sleep - but have not seen this claim before. As I see it; the importance is not on the specific times of the day; but rather consistency. If this means going to sleep at 7pm or at 3am, does not make that big of a difference. But switching between them, is a very bad idea.

[alecks]

IIFYM.

yes you can gett bigger without whey.I just use it for convenience and its amino acid profile

[Enigma]

(02-27-2013 08:05 PM)Hades Wrote:  

OK Enigma I would reply better but I am short on time and might make a blog post about it since I've been lazy as shit.

Two examples that thwart the overtraining model are bulgarian weightlifters (honestly almost all soviet weightlifters were demanded to treat lifting like a full time job) and manual labor jobs like dock workers and masons.

I'll use Vasily Alekseyev as an example for a soviet lifter. His contemporaries would usually throw around about 20 tons of volume per workout (if I'm not mistaken they would work out five to seven days a week), while Vasily would put up 40 tons on a regular basis, because he was insane and believed more strongly in how he understood his body's reaction to stress than to Soviet weightlifting protocols, and that pushed him to heights that nobody previously had.

Jamie Lewis on chaosandpain goes into enormous depth relating the Eastern concept of staleness to what we think of as overtraining (this is worth a google) and why having the concept of overtraining exist is one of the biggest pitfalls of all newbie lifters, who if they didn't know any better would make bigger gains. There's nothing I could write that he hasn't already done better. People's underappreciation for the capacity of people to adjust to a high workout volume and overappreciation for how much work they do in the gym are at fault here. I'm going to go rub one out and go lifting.

/////
If you trained for marathons while squatting 5 hours a day you'd die tired and never break a plate on the squat. Those two are like contradictory goals.

Aka overtraining.

[Hades]

(02-28-2013 09:04 PM)Enigma Wrote:  

Aka overtraining.

The idea of overtraining is self limiting in nature. The first time people saw Arnie's training routine of lifting like a bastard in the morning, eating a buffet, lifting at night, and doing this year round everyone was like "You're going to die of overtraining you dumb shit". But he had already been doing this for years. He didn't know what overtraining was and therefore gave it his all and became a great man in the process.

Two goals being contradictory are like continually building a wall out of stone while you pay two guys at the other end to demolish it with sledgehammers. The success at one comes at the expense of the other. You're just going to die tired.

[Aliblahba]

This thread is starting to get dumb now. Just a heads up.

[Hannibal]

Quote:

I currently run 50 miles a week and weight train four days a week. I do isolation exercises, bench press, curls, rows, dips, pull downs et cetra. I left to gain mass, 3 to 4 sets, 5 to 8 reps and I want to ensure that I'm actually getting stronger and lifting heavier weights week after week.

I think there are a few important things to considered, first if lifting and running in the same day always lift first, secondly and maybe the most important being your goals. My goal is to lower my body fat percentage. When I reached forty miles a week I was losing muscle mass in equal portion to fat. Distance running is catabolic it breaks down the cells both fat and muscle. Sprinting and weight lifting are anabolic they use amino acids and proteins to build muscle mass.

Distance running and weight lifting are contradictory in nature. I weight train to rebuild what I burn running in hopes that I can hit my target body fat percentage at a higher weight, due to preservation of muscle mass.

I believe you can do both, but as far as analogies go if your dating two people and you only have so many dollars they get split between the two you go to Hardees’s twice in one day versus Morton’s Once. There are times when I run and I just feel tired I still maintain a decent pace but I feel as though if I didn't weight train I could run faster. There are times that I hit the gym and I feel weak, I think that if I didn't run as many miles I could lift heavier and be stronger.

http://forums.runnersworld.com/forums/tr...0b69801ee1

Chaos and Pain's Series "Run and You'll Only Die Tired"

The Logic

The Science

The Logic Part II

The Evidence

The Evidence Part II

The Evidence Part III

As you can see from the quote above, there are guys out there who weight train and train for marathons. Among them, there are even those who know that long distance running basically destroys your gains in the gym.

The links presented are not safe for work. I already posted a link from the same series on page 1. I'm going to assume that you're just being willfully ignorant and not trolling, even though I figured you were trolling when you first claimed that it was beyond dangerous advice for the OP to train two hours a day for five days a week. After some backpedaling, you admitted to already be doing such a program.

So yeah, this thread's getting pretty dumb.

[The Pirate]

Sure you can gain without protein powder! However, the reason why I take it is because its simple and I am not looking to be the next Gordon Ramsey. I have a standard shake I drink twice a day. Protein-powder (whey 80 with neutral taste ) half a banana, non fat milk and a pinch oat in it. I have one in the morning and one after evening/workout. Other than that natural sources of protein like fish, eggs and chicken.

May I add, if you decide to go for protein powder, stay away from the ones with artificial sweeteners (Aspartame/Sucralose) Studies show it`s causing cancer. And even if you might need a high volume of it in your body to make it dangerous, I just don`t like the idea of drinking something that is not healthy everyday.