[Tuthmosis]

I may have the opportunity to go to Brazil in the near future. I've never been there before, but have spent time on the South American continent. I pretty much have my choice of city, but have it narrowed down to two:

1. Rio de Janeiro
2. Porto Alegre

Those are two very different places. I've read pretty much every data sheet and write-up in the forum, and am curious where you guys would recommend that a complete Brazil newb like me go first.

Assume the following fact pattern:

1. A respectable level of conversational Portuguese (good comprehension, decent speaking)
2. A trip duration of 4-6 weeks that will require anchoring in one city for most of that time (with the possibility side trips, but not lasting more than a weekend or so)
3. Quality of chicks (looks, accesibility, down-to-earth, less-bullshit) is a top concern, but "experiencing Brazil" is equally important
4. Knowledge that Rio Grande do Sul in general (and Porto Alegre in particular) has some of hottest chicks on the continent
5. Additional knowledge that Porto Alegre is relatively tame and boring compared to Rio
6. A likely winter arrival (i.e., in the Southern hemisphere)
7. A recent tendency toward day game rather nightclub or bar game (though that's partially been an adjustment I've made to North American realities)
8. Traveling alone, and likely going out dolo a majority of the time.

A possible strategy is going to one of the two cities--making that my base--and doing a brief side trip to the other. Would I be robbing myself of a required step by basing myself out of Porto Alegre? Or, would I just be avoiding a bunch of cliched, touristy shit that I could easily cram into a short side trip? Is the only advantage--if any--of Porto Alegre the chicks?

My primary goals, apart from my actual business there, are to:

1. See Brazil, getting an introductory feel for the culture (understanding that it's a massive country with a massive regional diversity)
2. Meet cool, attractive chicks to bang
3. Practice some Portuguese*

*I understand that the gaucho (Southern) Portuguese is quite a bit different than the Carioca, so learning more mainstream Portuguese is a consideration.

There are two schools of thought here that I'm having a hard time reconciling:

The Second-Tier City Philosophy
The idea that first-tier cities like Rio are played-out nightmares, with pain-in-the-ass chicks, bad logistics, aggressive male competitors, high prices, and general bullshit. Second-tier is the way to go to still get the sweet, cool, down-to-earth chicks.

Advantage: Porto Alegre

The Rio Resurgence
The whispers coming from people like Hencredible that Rio is still the place to be, despite the well-documented, growing problems with first-tiers in Brazil. Contrary to the naysayers, all roads still go through Rio in Brazil. Given it's continued allure, it would simply be silly to skip it in favor of a relative backwater, on the off-chance of meeting my non-famous Giselle Bundchen to impregnate and permanently unplug from the grid. Simply told, you must--for better and worse--go to Rio, especially to start.

Advantage: Rio

Would love to hear your thoughts, pessoal, even if that's to tell me that I should actually go to a third, unmentioned city as my first destination there.

State your reasons, of course.

[Aliblahba]

The runway?

[Giovonny]

Porto Alegre. More white chicks.

[Titan]

Porto Alegre is a social circle city to my best understanding, and well Rio is Rio.

[Tuthmosis]

Just added this fact:

Quote:

8. Traveling alone, and likely going out dolo a majority of the time.

[Menace]

I have to say Rio, especially if you want to experience more of what Brazil has to offer. I've only been to Rio, and aside from the girls, the place itself is just beautiful (well the nice parts anyway). I just think you can experience more of Brazil in Rio than in PA, and I really doubt that girls in PA are magically way easier than in Rio. Besides, it does not seem like someone like you needs to worry about ease of girls, so I think non-girl factors might actually be more important in your situation.

[Giovonny]

Both.

[Vacancier Permanent]

How do you look like? If you look latino, then I'd avoid the south and instead head to either the North East (Sao Luis, Belem or Fortaleza but also Recife/Fortaleza) or Belo Horizonte. If you are tall, blonde with blue/green eyes, then Rio would be very fun for you. If you're mediteranean looking, you'd be good to go in most places. I'd suggest you start pipelining hard to build a social circle. I'd focus on making good guy friends as these would be the key to awesome parties and social proofing that you wouldn't get any other way other than having friends there. Hit orkut hard and look for the pages of interest on FB.

Boa sorte rapaiz!

[Tuthmosis]

(02-08-2013 03:27 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

The runway?

I'm usually pretty good about titling threads, but this post got me second-guessing myself.

I think I've improved it by 30 percent.

[Duke Castile]

Tuth, you can't go. Your duties as moderator will not allow it. I'm sorry.

I will go in your place.

I'm choosing Porto Alegre since it has been less traveled.

[Brosemite]

I find it interesting how Wikipedia Porto Alegre has more to share under the "nightlife" section than Wikitravel Porto Alegre:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porto_Alegre

You might be bored during the daytime, but there is plenty of eye candy to go around. How is your Portuguese btw? If it's pretty fluent, I'd perhaps say Porto Alegre as social circles might not be as effective in certain venues. I'm sure apartment rentals here are exponentially cheaper than Rio as well.

The city is very compact while possessing around 2 million people living there (even moreso in metropolitan area) meaning you'd get a lot of interaction throughout the day unlike Floripa where you have only 400K living on such a scattered island equaling very little face to face time. Don't for one second believe "all girls in the south of Brazil are the same." The "Southeast" in Brazil is considered to be Rio state, Minas Gerais (Belo Horizonte), São Paulo state, and Espirito Santo (Vitoria). Are all girls in the southeast of Brazil the same? I think you know the answer to that based on all the data sheets have been written about the 4 big cities in the Sudeste so don't go on assuming all girls in the Northeast or South can be clumped into one oversimplified category based on their region as many intricacies exist within each one.

I think you'd be more entertained by Rio throughout the entire day though and with regards to culture as well. It's probably more English friendly as well.

Something tells me São Paulo would be the middle ground between both cities as it possess the dynamic culture of Rio with more diversity/cosmopolitan lifestyle options not to mention the high end modern beauty of gals from Porto Alegre but can communicate with you in English.

If I didn't have to do a three month project in Curitiba this May, I'd maybe choose Porto Alegre or Sampa.

Boa sorte com a decisão!

[Tuthmosis]

This is, roughly speaking, what I have in mind. The only corrective is that I both dress and dance better than this guy. I also don't hang decorations lazily from my blinds.

[Kabal]

(02-08-2013 08:53 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is, roughly speaking, what I have in mind. The only corrective is that I both dress and dance better than this guy. I also don't hang decorations lazily from my blinds.

Perhaps polo shirts a size too big and capri-pant/cargo-short hybrids are considered stylish down there.

[pobreinvestidor]

(02-08-2013 08:53 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is, roughly speaking, what I have in mind. The only corrective is that I both dress and dance better than this guy. I also don't hang decorations lazily from my blinds.

so roughly speaking you are aiming at the top 0.5% girls in here
prepare the bankroll

[Mrs. Chocolate]

Guys,

This is the new fronteer...

Too easy?

Try this then (for samba lovers)

[solo]

It's almost always hard to decide where to travel.

Have you considered when you will go back to Brazil the next time? If you will go back again soon, it might make sense to go with Rio the first time. Also, from what I've gathered reading the forum and based on qualified speculation, southern Brazil isn't really that much easier than Rio. Personally I would still probably choose PA but that's mainly because I don't see a reason to live in mega cities unless it's for money or career opportunities.

2013 must be the year I finally properly go to Brazil, I've been postponing it for way too long now. It's just there are so many countries I want to go to at the same time. Porto Alegre definitely is an alternative I've considered but maybe Im leaning more towards other areas personally. It's definitely somewhere where I would set up base for a month or so though.

[Brosemite]

(02-08-2013 11:08 PM)pobreinvestidor Wrote:  

(02-08-2013 08:53 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

This is, roughly speaking, what I have in mind. The only corrective is that I both dress and dance better than this guy. I also don't hang decorations lazily from my blinds.

so roughly speaking you are aiming at the top 0.5% girls in here
prepare the bankroll

I think being a gringo who can surprise locals with good Portuguese would be a good start, that or social connections

[RougeNoir]

Did Tuthmosis ever go?

[Prosal]

(02-08-2013 03:51 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  

How do you look like? If you look latino, then I'd avoid the south and instead head to either the North East (Sao Luis, Belem or Fortaleza but also Recife/Fortaleza) or Belo Horizonte. If you are tall, blonde with blue/green eyes, then Rio would be very fun for you. If you're mediteranean looking, you'd be good to go in most places. I'd suggest you start pipelining hard to build a social circle. I'd focus on making good guy friends as these would be the key to awesome parties and social proofing that you wouldn't get any other way other than having friends there. Hit orkut hard and look for the pages of interest on FB.

Boa sorte rapaiz!

I've personally wrote off Brasil not only because of the outrageously expensive cost of life, but also because I find that scoring top level girls is really not easy. And it's a very decent-looking guy who has travelled extensively throughout the country during ten years, who speaks decent portugese, with brasilian culture knowledge, ect who talks. Last time I spent an extensive period in Brasil, it was in Goiania, and in three weeks I scored only three girls. Two months later I went to Moldova and scored seven girls in two weeks and something (as a side note all of a level that I had rarely done in Brasil).

Brasileiras have very little esteem and interest for sex-hungry tourists. There is an underlying distrust of gringos among them and in many cases it's dislike, and even hate. On the other hand they have a very high opinion of their fellow countrymen.They are suckers about their own culture. Practically fanatical. They date guys of their peer group, sharing their culture, common interests, ect. Gringos are completely out of this loop. And if she is good-looking, any brasilian girl has permanently dozens of horny, athletic, attractive, confident, charming and sometimes outrageously rich brasilian guys at her feet begging to please her. No reason for her to fuck a "never to be seen again after his three weeks vacation are over" foreigner. Also most mid-to upper class girls may not want to be seen making out or holding hands with a gringo ....they may see this as a loss of status if the local guys start considering her a piranha who fucks foreigners. This is especially true for Rio where carioca upper-class girls are very very cliquey and for who a sex-hungry gringo is more or less at the same level than a cockroach.

This is the huge difference with FSU where devuski, and especially the most learned and worldly, jump on any occasion to fuck a decent looking foreigner. Contrarily to brasileiras, fucking their fellow countrymen is a chore FSU dyevs have to do, not something they particularly enjoy. Furthermore, I find brasileiras rather average in bed, contrarily to russians who are for most of them into wild, passionate, rough, 1000 mph no holds barred sex.

Also the legend of the sexually unhinibited, wild and carefree brasileira is totally overated IMO. The great majority of brasilian women are contrarily rather conservative. Currently about 25% of the population is part of the born again xtian evangelist community (from a 2007 survey), and Brasil is turning into the largest evangelist country in the world. Those people live exactly as their preachers tell them to, that is in a fairly conservative way.

Last but not least, there is admittedly ridiculously hot girls in Brasil, but the roads are not paved with them. Far from that. According WHO, some 22% of the adult female population in Brasil suffered from obesity in 2008. I've read somewhere that it had increased to almost 30% since then. A study reported that the city with the highest obesity index is Rio, with alarming numbers among the 15/20 yo population. Furthermore, goverment says that almost half of Brasilians are now overweight. In the next 10 years, this will rise to 60%. The myth of the paradise filled with slender beauties in bikini is harshly gashed. The truth is that the ratio of truly good-looking girls is rather low, and actually straight out bad in Amazonas, in Para or in Nordeste. As a side note, Recife and Manaus are the places where I have seen the more fugly girls in my life.

http://www.who.int/gho/countries/bra.pdf

That said, Brasil has its benefits.

   

[Zak]

Rio is a stunning city to look at and it has energy. But I don't care who denies it or why; foreign guys in Brazil are often viewed by locals as sex tourists and Rio has for a long time been the centre of sex tourist activity in Brazil. If you are alone, don't have high level Portuguese, have limited social circle and are staying for a shortish period of time, this suspicion of your motives grows stronger amongst many locals. As has been correctly stated above, many middle class local women are reluctant to be seen in public with a sex hungry Gringo as this has a social stigma attached for them. Favela girls and Piranhas are less bothered by this.

Tourists still go to Rio and to other parts of Brazil, bang local girls and enjoy their trip, but I find the dismissal of the social dynamics involved by some posters on the subject to be a denial of reality. I have a decent level of experience in Brazil, but I personally don't find the prospect of having to deal with the stereotypes and stigmas in Brazil to be very appealing any more (nor do I like the expense of visiting there). Over time I feel that this perception of Gringos has become more pronounced in parts of Brazil.

Other people of course will find this to be a non issue for them and it does not play on their mind very much during their visit or afterwards.

[Prosal]

(05-11-2013 04:18 AM)Zak Wrote:  

Rio is a stunning city to look at and it has energy. But I don't care who denies it or why; foreign guys in Brazil are often viewed by locals as sex tourists and Rio has for a long time been the centre of sex tourist activity in Brazil. If you are alone, don't have high level Portuguese, have limited social circle and are staying for a shortish period of time, this suspicion of your motives grows stronger amongst many locals. As has been correctly stated above, many middle class local women are reluctant to be seen in public with a sex hungry Gringo as this has a social stigma attached for them. Favela girls and Piranhas are less bothered by this.

Tourists still go to Rio and to other parts of Brazil and bang local girls, but I find the dismissal of the social dynamics involved by some posters on the subject to be a denial of reality. I have a decent level of experience in Brazil, but I personally don't find the prospect of having to deal with the stereotypes and stigmas in Brazil to be very appealing any more (nor do I like the expense of visiting there). Over time I feel that this perception of Gringos has got more pronounced in parts of Brazil.

Other people of course will find this to be a non issue for them and it does not play on their mind very much during their visit or afterwards.

I could not agree more with everything you said.What never ceased to amuse me when I travelled in Brasil is the gringos that I met who after one minute of conversation about the country proudly stated that they had fucked a dozen of girls since they were here. Hmm .... innerly I laughed and thought "Don't fool yourself boy, you haven't fucked a dozen of girls here, but a dozen of piranhas or of faveladas (when it was not straight out putas), who weren't with you for your charm or for your sparkling personality, but just because they saw benefit in doing so".

Mid to upper class brasileiras, and especially if they are 8s and 9s, are out of league for 95 % of the gringos who are in Brasil on a few weeks vacations.

Agree also about the expenses. Cost of life in Brasil is now ridiculously high, and not only in Rio or SP.

[Tenerife]

(05-11-2013 04:45 AM)Prosal Wrote:  

(05-11-2013 04:18 AM)Zak Wrote:  

Rio is a stunning city to look at and it has energy. But I don't care who denies it or why; foreign guys in Brazil are often viewed by locals as sex tourists and Rio has for a long time been the centre of sex tourist activity in Brazil. If you are alone, don't have high level Portuguese, have limited social circle and are staying for a shortish period of time, this suspicion of your motives grows stronger amongst many locals. As has been correctly stated above, many middle class local women are reluctant to be seen in public with a sex hungry Gringo as this has a social stigma attached for them. Favela girls and Piranhas are less bothered by this.

Tourists still go to Rio and to other parts of Brazil and bang local girls, but I find the dismissal of the social dynamics involved by some posters on the subject to be a denial of reality. I have a decent level of experience in Brazil, but I personally don't find the prospect of having to deal with the stereotypes and stigmas in Brazil to be very appealing any more (nor do I like the expense of visiting there). Over time I feel that this perception of Gringos has got more pronounced in parts of Brazil.

Other people of course will find this to be a non issue for them and it does not play on their mind very much during their visit or afterwards.

I could not agree more with everything you said.What never ceased to amuse me when I travelled in Brasil is the gringos that I met who after one minute of conversation about the country proudly stated that they had fucked a dozen of girls since they were here. Hmm .... innerly I laughed and thought "Don't fool yourself boy, you haven't fucked a dozen of girls here, but a dozen of piranhas or of faveladas (when it was not straight out putas), who weren't with you for your charm or for your sparkling personality, but just because they saw benefit in doing so".

Mid to upper class brasileiras, and especially if they are 8s and 9s, are out of league for 95 % of the gringos who are in Brasil on a few weeks vacations.

Agree also about the expenses. Cost of life in Brasil is now ridiculously high, and not only in Rio or SP.

8s and 9s are out of the league of most men period no matter where you are.

In any big city outside of europe or the anglo countries there are going to be some fairly hot gringo groupies. Sure, plenty of guys bang the lower class girls.

The whole "foreigners are viewed as sex tourists" is a little played up. Men in general are viewed as "dogs" whenever they try to get sex. That's just the way it is. A hot girl knows that any dude would want to bang her.

[WestCoast]

Is cash an issue? Thats the main factor.

If cash is fine for 4-6 months then i'd tell you to go to Rio. Here is why.

1. More places to hit in a single night
2. While competition may be higher, you can find a niche spot where your look/vibe is liked
3. If you can pull in the USA you will pull in Rio so no reason to spend time building a social circle... because well that takes time.

Only downside is you've got less exotic factor, but generally for short trips you'll be better off going to a major city from my experience.

Example: if you have a month do you choose New York City or Los Angeles? You choose NYC because you don't need the social network, by the time you get it going it has been 2 weeks.

[Prosal]

(05-11-2013 10:59 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

If cash is fine for 4-6 months then i'd tell you to go to Rio. Here is why.

Given the exorbitant cost of life in Rio (by the way, according to the 2012 Mercer Worldwide Cost of Living Survey, Sao Paulo and Rio are now the most expensive cities in both North and South America), you actually need serious cash to spend 6 months there and have a good lifestyle.

[Prosal]

(05-11-2013 08:11 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

In any big city outside of europe or the anglo countries there are going to be some fairly hot gringo groupies.

The only gringo groupies I have bumped into in Brasil (and I've travelled pretty much everywhere, from Macapa to Porto Alegre and from Campo Grande to Manaus) were piranhas or faveladas. Middle class girls or upper class girls gringo groupies?..never. Even at the brasilian Club Meds (I've been at least ten times at the Itaparica and Rio das Petras branches - never been to the one near Trancoso), where clients are at 60% brasilians (the others being 39% argentinians and 1% europeans) and where a lot of upper class girls from Rio or SP go to rest and party their ass off, I've had a pretty bad success rate with the brasileiras, happily the argentinians were much more scorable.

That said, as usual, YMMV. Maybe you've had an excellent success rate with middle or upper class girls in Brasil, personally I haven't.

(05-11-2013 08:11 PM)Tenerife Wrote:  

The whole "foreigners are viewed as sex tourists" is a little played up. Men in general are viewed as "dogs" whenever they try to get sex. That's just the way it is. A hot girl knows that any dude would want to bang her.

There is some countries where the "anti sex-hungry foreigner" resentment is more exacerbated than in others and Brasil is definitely one of those countries, and IMO maybe one of the countries where it's the most blatant. As I said above, there is a real distrust of gringos in Brasil and in many cases it's dislike. Of course girls know that men just want to fuck them, but we are talking about anti-foreigners sentiment here.