[FretDancer]

A few years ago, before I was even thinking about starting to workout and lift, I was a skinny little guy.

After having been working out for some years now, I have considerably grown alot. My arms, my back, my chest, my legs, have all improved alot.

However, I'm not sure if this is the goal I had in mind. Obviously back in the day I just wanted to get bigger and build muscle, but I'm really starting to wonder now when is the right time to start getting ripped?

I sure don't want to get super big, I want to define muscles, define my abs, define my chest, define my back. So how does one get around to do that? Should I stop worrying about lifting more weight?

Being bigger feels great, the confidence is great, but I think I would rather work for something like this:

These guys are not so big, and they don't weight that much. But the mass is greatly distributed. This is what I want.

[reaper23]

For me it was 265 lbs and 25% body fat I had been bulking for two years including Gomad and stuff yet face diets. Now I'm down to 250 and when I get to 220 ill be ripped and jacked.

[mikeymike]

(02-02-2013 03:25 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

For me it was 265 lbs and 25% body fat I had been bulking for two years including Gomad and stuff yet face diets. Now I'm down to 250 and when I get to 220 ill be ripped and jacked.

no you wont.

[mikeymike]

Fret...only way to know what you've got underneath is to see it...start shedding the fat...up the volume, more reps, more sets, less time between sets...eat at a calorie deficit...all the basic obvious stuff, get peeled...always best to be shredded, size only impresses other dudes, no chick gets wet for a fat permabulker. Get down to sub 10% bf...see where you're at. If you get there and feel small, and you probably will...build up, better to do it from a lean position anyway. Bulking when you're already heavy is just asking for skin issues, hormonal issues...

[Sonsowey]

Obviously cutting out junk food is a big part of getting a super low percentage of body fat.

That guy from the picture above could have the exact same amount of muscle but eat more cookies and not be anywhere near as cut.

[dog24]

The right time is when you achieve your genetic limit. ( If you dont want to do steroids)
I have wasted many years trying to maintain a skinny ripped physique in which i didn't make any gains at all, it gets old really fast, you dont look like you lift with a shirt on, basically the only time people notice all the hard work you put in the gym is when you are at the beach.
It sucks having to hear a fat fuck saying that you look skinny, when you're putting all that effort into your body.
Personally i would advice not to cut until you are 200+. (Im not advicing going more than 16% bf either)
Plus all the guys i know that have been working out for years have eventually turned to PL training or oly lifting. So you should definitely try to acquire sufficient mass first.
And before all the guys start saying get ripped for the girls, yes i definitely got a lot of attention when i was 10%, but i know i will get as much if not more when i get to 200 10% instead of 155 10%.

[Bronze Age Pervert]

(02-02-2013 03:41 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

The right time is when you achieve your genetic limit. ( If you dont want to do steroids)
I have wasted many years trying to maintain a skinny ripped physique in which i didn't make any gains at all, it gets old really fast, you dont look like you lift with a shirt on, basically the only time people notice all the hard work you put in the gym is when you are at the beach.
It sucks having to hear a fat fuck saying that you look skinny, when you're putting all that effort into your body.
Personally i would advice not to cut until you are 200+. (Im not advicing going more than 16% bf either)
Plus all the guys i know that have been working out for years have eventually turned to PL training or oly lifting. So you should definitely try to acquire sufficient mass first.
And before all the guys start saying get ripped for the girls, yes i definitely got a lot of attention when i was 10%, but i know i will get as much if not more when i get to 200 10% instead of 155 10%.

You can start from 10% bf and bulk slowly without gaining a lot of fat, and look good with your shirt off year round. Eating calorie surplus well beyond your limit is useless. Aim to get ripped and then bulk slowly gaining muscle at a steady rate. Although if you're saying don't go over 16% bf then I guess it's so-so, but keep in mind people often underestimate the % bf they have.

OP, get an account on bodybuilding.com and look around that site; find guys who have your goal physique and who are natural or "natty" and ask them about what they do or look at their workout programs.

A combination of high volume/low times between sets weight training and HIIT cardio/sprints can help you achieve your goals. Also carb cycle.

[kbell]

If you up the volume for shredding, do you lower the weight to reduce injury? And what about rest times need for repair? How much of a defecit do you run calories wise? I'm currently 170 and 5'4". I looks somewhat like the guy above left picture but with a bit more flab in the stomach area maybe 20-22% bf. I don't eat much junk mostly paleo. But should probably update my work out program to start shredding.

[Bronze Age Pervert]

(02-02-2013 04:14 PM)kbell Wrote:  

If you up the volume for shredding, do you lower the weight to reduce injury? And what about rest times need for repair? How much of a defecit do you run calories wise? I'm currently 170 and 5'4". I looks somewhat like the guy above left picture but with a bit more flab in the stomach area maybe 20-22% bf. I don't eat much junk mostly paleo. But should probably update my work out program to start shredding.

Obviously you have to lower the weight with higher volume and lower rest times in between sets. You should train yourself to wait no longer than 30-45 sec between sets. Do well-controlled motions with slow negatives. In your case you need to do both HIIT and LISS cardio a few times a week, and to carb cycle. Also consider IF, it works very well for some people.

I'm not sure about amount of calories per day, you need to find out what your maintenance is. I've seen guys who are 6'3 and 200 lbs cut at under 2000 calories/day, but they have slow metabolism (which you might too). It is better to get the deficit from cardio than from just cutting calories, but you need to cut calories. Consider using myfitnesspal, it's a decent resource, although not always accurate. You're going to have to get used to being hungry dude.

[Norset]

http://www.leangains.com

Edit saw IF mentioned in post above now..

[kbell]

From what I understand of lean gains there is a 500 calorie deficit on non workout days, a 8 hour eating window (no breakfast), fasted training, and 5x5 stronglift style workouts. He goes up in weight. I tried the IF but I can't do it all the time I would have to limit it to maybe a few times a week since its difficult for me to eat a lot of calories. I often undereat to the point of back pain and overall no energy if I cut too low on carbs and IF. Won't give up sweet potatoes though or rice entirely. Carb cycling would be great on squats and deadlifts days. At a higher volume lower weight I might be able to combine the two together.

[Every10GivesMeA10]

No need for complex programs. Just lift hard and heavy with progressive overload and track calories and macronutrients. http://www.myfitnesspal.com

"When do you stop getting big and start getting ripped" is nothing you should be concerned about now. It will take years as a natural athelete.

[Bronze Age Pervert]

(02-02-2013 05:17 PM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:  

No need for complex programs. Just lift hard and heavy with progressive overload and track calories and macronutrients. http://www.myfitnesspal.com

"When do you stop getting big and start getting ripped" is nothing you should be concerned about now. It will take years as a natural athelete.

Unless you're starting out very skinny (and even then), there isn't any real reason you should be much higher than 10% bf. The dude wants to look good with his shirt off, he should go for it.

To the guy above, IF isn't for everyone, and doesn't work for everyone. If you want to get rid of fat, you can't skip cardio; you need to do both HIIT and LISS 3-4 times a week, and you should up the volume in weights. Eat well, at a slight deficit, and you should be good to go.

[mikeymike]

if you want a surefire way to spin your wheels and not progress, definitely join bodybuilding.com lol Biggest noob board on the planet, morons passing on bro science pushing useless garbage supps...and my favorite believing blindly every guy who is juiced to the tits when he says he's natty and vehemently defending them. There are very few serious lifters on that site and the ones who are aren't telling the truth about lifting, they're getting their love and going to real boards to pick up real info.

[Hannibal]

Eating Paleo will get you ripped, and there are plenty of resources on the internet to figure out how to do that.

[FretDancer]

(02-02-2013 03:32 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

Fret...only way to know what you've got underneath is to see it...start shedding the fat...up the volume, more reps, more sets, less time between sets...eat at a calorie deficit...all the basic obvious stuff, get peeled...always best to be shredded, size only impresses other dudes, no chick gets wet for a fat permabulker. Get down to sub 10% bf...see where you're at. If you get there and feel small, and you probably will...build up, better to do it from a lean position anyway. Bulking when you're already heavy is just asking for skin issues, hormonal issues...

What do you mean by "up the volume"? More weight? Trying to up the weight is a constant goal for me, but I don't worry too much about it. Maybe I should start changing that.

(02-02-2013 03:36 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  

Obviously cutting out junk food is a big part of getting a super low percentage of body fat.

That guy from the picture above could have the exact same amount of muscle but eat more cookies and not be anywhere near as cut.

I can cut out the junk food anytime, as long as I still get to eat pizza.

(02-02-2013 03:41 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

The right time is when you achieve your genetic limit. ( If you dont want to do steroids)
I have wasted many years trying to maintain a skinny ripped physique in which i didn't make any gains at all, it gets old really fast, you dont look like you lift with a shirt on, basically the only time people notice all the hard work you put in the gym is when you are at the beach.
It sucks having to hear a fat fuck saying that you look skinny, when you're putting all that effort into your body.
Personally i would advice not to cut until you are 200+. (Im not advicing going more than 16% bf either)
Plus all the guys i know that have been working out for years have eventually turned to PL training or oly lifting. So you should definitely try to acquire sufficient mass first.
And before all the guys start saying get ripped for the girls, yes i definitely got a lot of attention when i was 10%, but i know i will get as much if not more when i get to 200 10% instead of 155 10%.

What do you mean by "genetic limit"? I guess you are right about the part I bolded, kind of sucks actually. I think waiting until I reach 200 sounds like a good idea, but I still have a long way to go then. I'm currently only at ~150lbs and I'm around 1.76 meters in height.

The thing is, once I reach say 200lbs. I don't want to be asking myself this thread's question again

[IRTdenialist]

The concept of bulking and then cutting comes from competitive bodybuilders who need to look amazing just a few days of the year. As international playboys and lifestyle artists wouldn't your goal be to look muscular and ripped all year round? Me and many bro's manage to do it with great success. Just keep on training, keep your fat down at around 8-10 % (which is not very difficult) and continue to slowly add muscle mass and refine your lines/separation with fascia stretching.

[dog24]

(02-02-2013 08:41 PM)FretDancer Wrote:  

What do you mean by "genetic limit"? I guess you are right about the part I bolded, kind of sucks actually. I think waiting until I reach 200 sounds like a good idea, but I still have a long way to go then. I'm currently only at ~150lbs and I'm around 1.76 meters in height.

The thing is, once I reach say 200lbs. I don't want to be asking myself this thread's question again

You are too skinny you shouldn't be worrying about cutting yet.
When you get to 200 (if you get there) you wont be asking this anymore, cause once you get there, you will be putting on like 4-5 pounds a year if that.
Ive been working out for 7 years now, and im only at 185 currently bulking, like i said i wish i haven't wasted all those years being a facebook ripped kid.
Is a long way to go but you will have to do it eventually.

And to all the guys saying you dont have to go higher than 10% come on, show me pictures in which you maintain that bf year round and still make gains.
Sure in paper sounds good, but you know what happens when you count macros and eat chicken with rice all day.. you get burnout mentally really fast. If you guys can really do that my hat is off to you, you are a better man than i am.