[Hooligan Harry]

Ok a long post, but I got a bee in the bonnet. If you are the TL,DR type, skip this.

______

After reading the post Roosh made about American women who cant compete on his new Return of Kings website, I was reading through the comments when I saw the usual and typical comments that always tend to follow these sorts of articles. For some reason, the minute you mention foreign or mail order brides, there is a mini descent into madness and all common sense gets thrown out of the window

There are always tons of people saying that these women were nothing more than gold digging, green card chasing whores who will divorce the men the first chance they get, and this article was no exception. According to everyone, these women are all out to get suckers and betas. Few happen to be the marriage minded, feminine women these countries tend to produce in droves, they are just mercenaries who will be out the door the minute they get the chance if you look at them.

What then almost always follows are anecdotal accounts of dudes who know lots of Russian, EE or foreign chicks who are foreign brides that divorced local men after they brought them in. I would love to know where these guys meet all these divorced bitches with their new green cards, but the minute you raise this topic everyone knows like 300 of them it seems.

So I thought what the hell, let me see if I can drum up some stats and see who is right about this crap. I have seen stats before that show its opposite of what everyone else says, but lets see what else turns up.

I believe the vast majority of women looking for husbands are genuine given what I know of the cultures and the places I have traveled to over the years. I think because these women are more traditional and conservative, a decent guy will probably stand far less chance of divorce too. I also know that these women tend to be far more logical than the degenerate whores western men deal with on a daily basis too, so women would be less prone to divorcing unless the guy was abusive, a really poor provider or an absolute loser. They are prone to hypergamy just like all women, but its no where near as severe as it is with the average western slut.

I also believe that the foreign passport hunting, gold digging whore is one of the biggest myths out. Sure, there are going to be horror stories, I just doubt that the horror stories are more frequent than the average divorce hell 50% of most western men will go through. And I think that the majority of guys who end up going through hell with a foreign woman tend to meet them IN THEIR HOME COUNTRIES, they are not meeting those marriage minded foreign women in the womans home country.

So, first study I went to find was one that USED to be on Wikipedia. USED TO BE. Someone has decided to remove it, and it was even removed on the official government site. I know it was there because I have shared it before, even on this forum. Anyways, much of it has been repeated on the web verbatim, line for line. You also see many people linking to the original study and the wiki entry.

Quote:

The United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) reports that “…marriages arranged through [mail order bride] services would appear to have a lower divorce rate than the nation as a whole, fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available.” The USCIS also reports that “… mail-order bride and e-mail correspondence services result in 4,000 to 6,000 marriages between U.S. men and foreign brides each year.”

80% of the marriages have been successful. This is not some dude bringing back his foreign wife after meeting her there on a trip or holiday. Its not guys who were expats somewhere and returned home with a wife. These are outright MAIL ORDER BRIDES. These are guys going onto the internet or using services to find women to marry from day one. Zero romance and courtship, straight to business, Ill get to know you once we are married type marriages.

80 fucking percent success rate. EIGHTY PERCENT. And these are mail order brides, these are not women they met and gradually built a relationship with before they took the plunge. They are going into this with the intention of marrying them from the first meeting most of the time.

Next up is Centre for Immigration Studies who again state a 20% divorce rate with mail order bride marriages. A separate organisation comes to the same conclusions the census did.

This is not exclusive to the USA though. Here is a study conducted in Switzerland. The white paper is available but its long, so I just share the web extract.

Again, we see the same thing, where divorce rates are far lower when the foreign women are not "western". Ironically, they also track the divorce rate between Swiss women and foreign men, which clocks in at 80% FAILURE rates.

Quote:

The statistical office of Switzerland has published some more detailed statistics[citation needed]: Note that to draw any conclusions, the divorce rate of mail-order marriages must be compared to the divorce rate of domestic marriages. In 1999, the divorce rate for domestic marriages (Swiss married to Swiss) in Switzerland were at a record high of 50%. In the same year (1999), marriages with foreigners are comparatively better: Marriages between Swiss and German or Italian women have a comparatively better divorce rate: 40%. Marriages between Brazilian or Thai women and Swiss turned out to be more durable than expected, the divorce rate reached the low rate of 30%. Fantastically low divorce rates were reached at marriages with women from Colombia (20%). Marriages with women from the former USSR reached a rate of 15%; however, it must be noted that marriages between Swiss and Russians boom at the moment, and that the divorce rate is not that much meaningful, because the divorce rate rises with a time-lag. However, there are also marriages between Swiss and foreigners where the divorce rate is worse than the domestic rate: Marriages between Swiss and women from the Dominican Republic tend to work very badly, the divorce rate reached catastrophic sixty percent. Similarly, but not quite as bad, the divorce rate in marriages between Swiss and Philippine women reached 45%

So 85% success rate with women from the former USSR for the Swiss. The Swiss divorce rate is approaching 50%, yet these marriages are clocking in at 85% success rates.

Another major study called Negotiated Nuptials: A Transnational Analysis of the International Marriage Broker Industry and the Russian ‘Mail-Order Bride’ went into great detail proving how the women dont suffer abuse like the feminists are saying they do. At the same time, the research concludes that the vast majority of women looking for foreign husbands are genuine in their search. This thing even won some feminist prize or some shit. So not only does it prove that the feminists are exaggerating the rates of abuse, it also goes on to show how many of these arrangements are not only genuine but successful.

Thats one thing that turned up a hell of a lot was some ridiculous representations by feminists and the media too. The more I dug into it the more blatant it is. Clearly this is seen as a major threat to the harpies, because the lengths they are going to are ridiculous. The funniest example that I came across was a story about some English guy who started a marriage agency. He says in his interview that men are looking for feminine, traditional wives who are unspoiled by feminism, and he introduces them.

This is the response from some cunt about the whole thing, who equates it to human trafficking and slavery because these women tend to be housewives:

Quote:

However, couples can get around this obstacle by claiming they met through other avenues. There also tends to be little enforcement of IMBRA when the agencies are based outside the U.S. (Hand-In-Hand, for example, is registered in St. Kitts.) "The mail-order bride industry is a softer version of human trafficking," says Sonia Ossorio, executive director of the New York City chapter of the National Organization for Women. Ossorio also acknowledges that some relationships work out—but perhaps not in a way that would please Betty Friedan. "A lot of people who are attracted to it are just looking for a woman who's docile and obedient," she says.

For some companies, such submissiveness is a selling point. Hand-In-Hand's website trumpets the fact that its females are "unspoiled by feminism." Company founder Weiner argues this form of chauvinism—like the mail-order bride business itself—is economically motivated. "You take a beautiful woman from the Czech Republic and you bring her into your home, she does all your cooking and cleaning and ironing," he says. "At the end of the day, the service is free." Hand-In-Hand estimates the potential savings of a homemaking wife at $150 per week.

Housewives are slaves.

To make matters worse, the same article is then republished, and when it is the headlines are a complete misrepresentation of the interview and business as a whole

Here is the first headline

The Mail-Order-Bride Trade Is Flourishing

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/con...page_2.htm

Here is the second headline on the same article

Former I-Banker's Mail Order Bride Business Sells Women Who Are "Unspoiled By Feminism"

http://www.businessinsider.com/investmen...e9640e0000

Here is the third headline

Former Investment Banker’s Human-Trafficking Business Is Booming

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/01/eve...nted-24h-5

Laughable. Frikken laughable.

There is very little research that has been done on marriage between foreigners and nationals and their success rates for some reason. Seems like no one wants to touch it, or what is more likely, they cant get it through peer review.

I think they would make for very interesting reading and I would not be surprised if we see stats very similar to what happened in Switzerland. Not only were the marriages between foreign women and local men more successful, marriages between local women and foreign men were a disaster. Not the sort of thing feminized universities and organizations want to see published, thats for sure.
___________________________

Can you imagine what sort of dude resorts to a mail order bride? While I dont think its the case for all of them, I think in 95% of cases you are dealing with highly introverted guys who have always been hopeless with women. They are probably middle income to upper middle income, middle aged to elderly and either cant land a date or have been raped in divorce court already and are throwing the towel in. I also think that a lot of them will punch way above their weight, trying to marry women far too young or incredibly good looking women while they have very little going for them looks wise. I also think that many dont understand the cultures of these women.

So here we have average looking guys with moderate incomes and no ability with women who are still able not only marry hotter women than they would get at home, they are younger, more feminine and traditional too.

The biggest farce of all? 80% of these arrangements are actually working according to statistics, while the rest of their countrymen will see 50% of their marriages end in divorce and family court rape

Now I know there are guys who marry foreign women that end up taking them to the cleaners. The thing is, these guys are being taken to the cleaners far less often than they would be if they married local chicks. And if they did take a chance on a local chick, she would be no where near what the foreign wife was in quality either.

I am also willing to bet that many of these "foreign women" who everyone tells horror stories about just so happen to be women who immigrated here when young or were sent to study in western universities and colleges, and after a few years in our indoctrination camps they come out the other end far more fucked up than when they went in. They are not a complete representation of foreign women because their exposure to our culture is far deeper than someone who moved and lived there for a long period of time.

And I can say, based on what I see with Australian men who are marrying foreign women in droves now, particularly Asian, that the divorce rates are far lower, despite major age differences between couples.

Now I am not saying that this shit does not happen, but its quite clearly being blown way out of proportion.

[xsplat]

Good job on your research.

For women, gossip creates reality, and is reality. They don't have any concept of a real reality behind the gossip.

I once dated an anthropologist, and she explained that in her field this was a popular belief - that reality itself is a social construct. Feminists tend to hold to this extreme belief too - and are blatant about it.

I call it the Peter Pan principle. If you just believe hard enough, in just the right way, you can have the moon be made of green cheese!

[Faust]

That's freaking shocking. I've always considered myself red pill, but I hadn't even the faintest inkling that this was the case.

I guess there's always more to learn. Thanks for opening my eyes up to this, man.

[Wool Suit]

Fantastic research. Admittedly a tough field to get hard statistics for, but I think you did as an empirical a job as possible.

Listen, I've seen all sides of this thing. Ukrainian women direct from Ukraine. Ukrainian women who grew up in America. And of course, your garden variety Western American girl.

Unspoiled Ukranian girls are a thing of beauty, and I encourage any man serious about marriage to consider that path. There is a legitimate danger bringing them to the West - believe me, I've seen it firsthand. But even then, as your research shows, you're still better off that with an American feminist.

And, even though I don't encourage marriage, if you do end up getting married and divorced, the quality of the pussy you'll get for your troubles will be astronomically better.

Play it safe, brothers. Never marry American (Western).

[Dulceácido]

Good job, Man. Great post. That's amazing. I would've never thought that in a million years. Just goes to show, I guess...

So, which service are you ordering your bride through?

[vinman]

Natalia Bitten- Feminist. Fat scowling face, frumpy clothes, and a bad hairdo.

[Emancipator]

Very good post!

I think the main problem is how marriage is seen in Western cultures now, many people marry because "they are each others best friends" and they don't understand that marriage is an agreement and that each spouse has a role to play in the marriage.

Needless to say here where I live, I see many people hate on these men that go to the EE or more specifically SE Asia to get a wife calling them "losers". And it's always funny because jealousy plays a big part in this, as people with shitty marriages see marriages that work.

Oh and a bonus, the offspring produced by these men with foreign brides are good looking.

[storm]

This was an enlightening read. Thanks for breaking it down. Can you tell us which years these studies were conducted over?

[Pappy]

I instantly liked the woman in the video. Not because she was hot, but because she was very feminine.

As for their honesty. I think if you're a real man, these women won't divorce you. They will love you and have kids with you.

I've witnessed a guy in my social circle marrying a girl from a poor country that way. It doesn't work between the 2, because the guy is a fucking loser. He married her not by choice but because he couldnt get any girls here. So of course she will try to get out of the marriage if the guy is a fucking chump.

[Ovid]

If 80% of these marriages are successful, and only 20% are not, part of the 20% is undoubtedly men whose domestic marriages would have failed too, perhaps quicker. Feminism has been playing a role in forming Western men for a half-century now, to one degree or another. It's therefore expected that a good portion of American men are going to act like selfish, catty, emasculated little he-women, and not like proper men. Considering this, I'd say a marriage success rate of 80% is little short of astounding, especially when you factor in the anti-marriage culture fostered in the West. Moral of the story: if an RVFer wanted to marry a foreign bride, he'd probably have a 9 in 10 shot of success, or better if he chose wisely, and the odds might be higher still if the couple lived abroad instead of in the Anglosphere.

[magellan]

This info needs to be posted on ROK for sure.

[KorbenDallas]

This post highlights the absolute unmarriageability of Western women and the absolute hatred of feminists for men. These men who order mail order brides are not the cream of the crop, but they have salaries and are willing to provide for a woman, protect her, and work harder for her and the family. They are providing their wives with a better standard of living than what she's used to. They are leaning down and lending a hand up. What's been lost on Western women and that is not on these mail order brides is that marriage is A GOOD DEAL FOR THE WOMAN. What's been lost in this whole debate is the benefits men bring to the table and what is highlighted is just how much feminists hate men. That's the funny thing. These guys are sacrificing their income and their freedom (even if their not getting laid as a single man, they are still sacrificing) and these foreign women obviously appreciate that by sticking by these men's side.

I actually know one legit mail order bride couple. The girl is a very pretty blonde Russian married to a rather successful engineer. They're marriage is going on 8 years. The guy is very introverted, but her loyalty as far as I can tell is not in question. She was 21 when she got to the states. I'm talking blowing most the local girls out of the water in terms of looks. He's the type of guy who can't just travel oversees like Roosh or others, so, he upped and chatted with some beautiful girls from Russia and got himself a loving wife. I say good for him. A feminist would say, "This is a major problem because..." Bottom line feminists are truly ugly inside and out.

[Hooligan Harry]

(01-27-2013 07:10 PM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  

This post highlights the absolute unmarriageability of Western women and the absolute hatred of feminists for men. These men who order mail order brides are not the cream of the crop, but they have salaries and are willing to provide for a woman, protect her, and work harder for her and the family. They are providing their wives with a better standard of living than what she's used to. They are leaning down and lending a hand up. What's been lost on Western women and that is not on these mail order brides is that marriage is A GOOD DEAL FOR THE WOMAN. What's been lost in this whole debate is the benefits men bring to the table and what is highlighted is just how much feminists hate men. That's the funny thing. These guys are sacrificing their income and their freedom (even if their not getting laid as a single man, they are still sacrificing) and these foreign women obviously appreciate that by sticking by these men's side.

I actually know one legit mail order bride couple. The girl is a very pretty blonde Russian married to a rather successful engineer. They're marriage is going on 8 years. The guy is very introverted, but her loyalty as far as I can tell is not in question. She was 21 when she got to the states. I'm talking blowing most the local girls out of the water in terms of looks. He's the type of guy who can't just travel oversees like Roosh or others, so, he upped and chatted with some beautiful girls from Russia and got himself a loving wife. I say good for him. A feminist would say, "This is a major problem because..." Bottom line feminists are truly ugly inside and out.

Feminists are clearly threatened by the whole thing, especially considering how these women are appealing because they promise to come to the party providing the very traditional values so many men are looking for. I am seeing a lot of it here in Aus now, where over the last 10 years there has been a noticeable rise in older men marrying younger, foreign Asian women. A lot of the Australian posters here will confirm the trend, and speaking to any of them its almost always the same story. The guys were either raped in court or completely blown away by the feminine treatment and sweeter disposition of the women when they met them. Its a constant theme out here.

I was gobsmacked though at the amount of hatred and complete misinformation that is thrown at these guys and the "industry" as a whole. Its beyond nasty. The media misrepresentation is not an isolated case either and the amount of shaming that these guys are going through is tremendous. The response to Rooshes post on ROK was typical and I had seen it before, but while I was digging for stats I came across countless examples where people were resorting to the same thing with no information at all. Its all just based on their misguided perception, and one that has been clearly shaped by the media. The feminists are pushing hard for legislation too in an effort stop this, and the justification for it is beyond hysterical at times based on no fact whatsoever.

Im at a real loss trying to understand what the problem is. Its not something I would ever do, but I am sure the vast majority of these guys are probably decent guys, they are just a bit socially awkward and introverted. They are despised already and their options at home are so limited that they really have few worthwhile options. Women would not be giving them a second look, yet will be the first to shit their pants when these guys abandon the plantation like a bunch of escaped slaves. It seems to really bite the ass of a lot of people that these people are doing this now.

[bacon]

@holligan harry

i was back in the states a couple months ago anyway the subject of dating foreign women came up. i was asked by a group of mostly women about my experiences. i COULD have gone on a long tangent about the reasons why foreign women beat the hell out of american women. i settled for explaining that it takes less to make them(foreign women) happy. the american women said they could see how they makes sense. i felt if i had said any more it would have erupted into a perverbial WW3.

american women like aussie and uk women dont understand how low their market value is when compared to EE, SEA AND LA women. as an american who has dated foreign women there is no going back. the real irony is that western men are probably the most desirable men in the world but its not until you leave your respective homeland(us,western europe, australia) that you realize your own high market value as a man in the global sexual marketplace.

[Vacancier Permanent]

Smashing post Harry! Thanks for taking the time to do the research. The info on that post needs to be spread around as much as possible since it probably won't get any exposure int he mainstream media which is feminazi controlled. On a similar note, while I'm not the marriage minded guy, at least not for now, I've been chatting with a stunning Pinay, who's sweet as it gets, educated, smart, fun, sexy and feminine and I can totally see making her a steady gf and possibly more. Needless to say, the level of feminity and sweetness between her and the local she-beasts is like night and day.

[Atlantic]

Hooligan Harry drops some seriously high quality posts. Thanks man, I always enjoy your no nonsense style of writing.

[xsplat]

(01-27-2013 09:05 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Im at a real loss trying to understand what the problem is. Its not something I would ever do, but I am sure the vast majority of these guys are probably decent guys, they are just a bit socially awkward and introverted. They are despised already and their options at home are so limited that they really have few worthwhile options. Women would not be giving them a second look, yet will be the first to shit their pants when these guys abandon the plantation like a bunch of escaped slaves. It seems to really bite the ass of a lot of people that these people are doing this now.

Women deliberately create the beta class of men, as if their sexual strategy of being provisioned for having a pussy relied on it. Which it does. They are hard wired to keep the bulk of men starving for pussy.

Look to how women are constantly trying to emasculate men - to lower their testosterone through snide looks and unwarranted put downs. This is an evolved group response to ensure that women as a group remain on a pedestal. That they appear difficult to attain.

[Vicious]

Blammo! This is excellent research with credible sources (which the lack of was my main gripe with thai thread).

The implications of this are tremendous. While I dare not yet conclusively state that marriage with a woman from a non-feminist culture is the receipe (would need better definitions there among other things). This piece however convincingly makes the argument that marriage with a western woman is far more likely to fail (2.5 times more likely in fact).

[Beyond Borders]

While we're on the subject of Asian wives...

Obviously an anomaly even for a Japanese woman but how's this for a 43 year old?









http://blog.asiantown.net/-/9585/this-ja...r-old.aspx

[Walderschmidt]

(01-28-2013 06:09 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

While we're on the subject of Asian wives...

Obviously an anomaly even for a Japanese woman but how's this for a 43 year old?









http://blog.asiantown.net/-/9585/this-ja...r-old.aspx

Would bang until I was old and disgusting. Then would bang some more.

[Tytalus]

Some Japanese women age incredibly well. That said back to the OP, thanks for sharing. Most people in my circle share the mainstream view that the women are oppressed.

[Blaxxo]

(01-27-2013 02:11 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  

Very good post!

I think the main problem is how marriage is seen in Western cultures now, many people marry because "they are each others best friends" and they don't understand that marriage is an agreement and that each spouse has a role to play in the marriage.

Needless to say here where I live, I see many people hate on these men that go to the EE or more specifically SE Asia to get a wife calling them "losers". And it's always funny because jealousy plays a big part in this, as people with shitty marriages see marriages that work.

Oh and a bonus, the offspring produced by these men with foreign brides are good looking.

I met my wife in August of 2004 when I visited Odessa for the first time.

Look don't let anyone fool you, marriage is HARD work. There is MUCH truth in what you say about marriage but the bottom line is that both have to be committed to staying married or it simply will fail.

The world has duped people into thinking love is a feeling... sorry but that is pure B.S. Love is a decision. The feeling part comes after the decision is made and IM NOT talking about that red hot, fire passion/lust that so many people call love... you CAN NOT sustain a life time commitment off that.... if that is your definition of love you are doomed to fail.

A bigger part is how does your spouse feel loved? A fantastic book on this is called the 5 languages of love. Everyone tends to be dominate with one of the 5 and that is not to say you don't like, appreciate or want the others... they are:

Words of Affirmation (verbal expression of appreciation)
Acts of Service (if your wife is this way things like washing her car, occasionally doing a chore she does always for her)
Receiving Gifts (small things like a candy bar, a single flower etc)
Quality Time ( if this is your wife you want to really make her feel loved? Next time she walks into the room and your watching your sporting event. Turn it off and talk to her.)
Physical Touch.

You want your spouse to feel loved figure out what is their dominate "language" and give it back to them... it is USUALLY (though not always) how they try to express love to you. So if you have a wife who is really communicating to you that she wants to spend quality time with you.. chances are that is her language.

[Blaxxo]

[quote] (01-27-2013 09:05 PM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

[quote='KorbenDallas' pid='357034' dateline='1359331840']



Im at a real loss trying to understand what the problem is. Its not something I would ever do, but I am sure the vast majority of these guys are probably decent guys, they are just a bit socially awkward and introverted. They are despised already and their options at home are so limited that they really have few worthwhile options. Women would not be giving them a second look, yet will be the first to shit their pants when these guys abandon the plantation like a bunch of escaped slaves. It seems to really bite the ass of a lot of people that these people are doing this now.[/quote]

I think you are falling into the stereotype trap yourself. Are there socially awkward, introverted unattractive men seeking women overseas? Absolutely. You know what though, many if not most of them fail to marry a girl from overseas because the things that make them undesirable at home make them undesirable anywhere.

Having done this, currently married to a wonderful woman from Ukraine, I've can speak to what my experience was and what I saw from the men I met pursuing the same thing I was.

I am frankly, a fairly good looking guy with a very high paying job. I NEVER had problems getting dates. My problem is that women in the US are f****d up. Feminism has poison them. Roles have been so blurred that women find them selves fighting their natural instincts because the Feminazi's tell them what they want biologically is wrong.

You've got women in the USA who largely don't give a sh** about their appearance because being thin, fit and dressing to catch the eye of a man is somehow demeaning to women.

When I was on the dating website and I put in my profile that "looks matter" and that I was(and still am) attractive, physically fit and I am attracted to the same in a woman and if you do NOT fit that description please don't reply because you wont be my type. The nasty response I got from the so called BBW was unreal... Look there is NOTHING beautiful about a woman who is over weight by 100-200 lbs... NO amount of alcohol is going to make her hot.

EE women are very FEMININE and proud of the fact that they LOOK great. They expect a man to be just that A MAN. That means YOU take out the garbage and SHE cooks. You take care of things when they break, the garage etc... she cleans... obviously not every woman is like that but in general that is what you find....

I'm not hung up on the domestic roles its that THEY want you to be what your grandfather was (for those of you under 30) and they want to be what Your mom or grandmother was in terms of being a WOMAN. They will be offended if you don't open a door... hell you do that here and you never know if you'll get screamed at... Worse yet I've had women open doors for me... WTF??!!!

I know SEVERAL American men married to women from Ukraine here in my city because we are actively involved because of the invasion of Ukraine by Russia.. I can honestly say that every single one of these guys has it together, socially, emotionally and financially. Only one of them is what I would call an introvert.... All are highly educated a few are professors at THE big university here in my city....

IMO it has far more to do with what a turn off the American woman has become in terms of how they look, think and act (especially in public) Want proof look at how they dress to go in public. Anything that isn't clubbing or a "date" environment thing (restaurant) and they dress like slobs. Heck I bet half of them dont even own a dress. Some women I have NEVER seen wearing anything but T-shirts and Jeans or sweats.... Look thats okay once in a while... but when that is your normal wear...

[Gmac]

Great post.

Though, asian still women tend to hit a really tough wall after 50.

[Tytalus]

I forgot that this is a couple years old. I'd recommend this be an RoK article