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0K Student Debt. No job. Time to skip the country?
03-30-2011, 07:11 AM
Quote: (03-27-2011 04:31 PM)Samseau Wrote:
blame the law schools for being insanely overpriced
Quote: (03-27-2011 11:58 PM)Samseau Wrote:
the legal world sucked ass and was a scam ...
what part of not wanted to get ass raped by debt is entitlement?
Quote: (03-29-2011 11:55 PM)Samseau Wrote:
fraudulent contract.
Do you think lenders should not collect just because students chose overpriced schools? I feel bad for debtors, but the loans are
not fraudulent.
There are a couple stories at StudentLoanJustice.org about fraud. But mostly the "victims" have high interest rates and literally do not understand compound interest.
StudentLoanJustice.org
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03-30-2011, 01:14 PM
Quote: (03-27-2011 10:32 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:
Let me add a little bit to your sentence:
Thank God I am not from America nor do I live there.
The more I hear and read about life in the US and how bad things are there, the more I feel for you guys south of the border. Not that things are rosy and perfect in Canada, (far from it!) but it's certainly a lot better (read, things are a lot more human) than in the US.
That is a good way of framing the difference.
Life in the US is just...kind of inhuman. It is truly "dog eat dog". Granted, there is a great benefit to it all: opportunities here are truly great, and that can't be overstated. This is, afterall, the most powerful single nation on the planet, and for good reason.
But the Americans pay a price for all of that in terms of the quality of their human interactions and sanity.
Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles. Know yourself but not your enemy, find level of loss and victory. Know thy enemy but not yourself, wallow in defeat every time.
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03-30-2011, 10:23 PM
Quote: (06-16-2010 02:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Well guys, you sold me; the new stats for law schools are out this summer and the situation sucks beyond belief. Time to get out of this shit while I'm ahead.
Not sure what I can do at this point, but at least it won't be 3 years with 100K wasted. What a fucked up world I was born into.
Quote: (03-30-2011 07:17 PM)Samseau Wrote:
students should be refunded out of the school's pocket.
You did commendable research to make your personal decision. The main problem with your "fraud" description is that everybody else should be doing the same research.
It boggles my mind that college grads with decent LSAT's are too lazy and stupid to see the law school tragedy. More generally, students have an apathetic attitude where they spend 4-5 years in an easy major, and are then shocked to be unemployed. One girl in my class spent four years in expensive undergrad, three years in law school, and another two years for Ivy M.B.A. ... and didn't know calculus. The world isn't fucked up, and you just made a shrewd decision to avoid fucking up your own life.
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03-31-2011, 10:41 AM
It seems to be the case that if you were just going by the readily available information, in lets say any time pre-2006, you'd be left with an overall favorable impression of law school and the state of the legal profession. Then people started blogging about how shitty the market was, and then it seems two or three years later you would start to see articles in mainstream publications. There was an incredible lag time between the dip in the market and the mainstream acknowledging of such. Therefore, outside of doing some investigative research that is above and beyond the norm, i think it would have been difficult for most future law students of the time to uncover the reality of the market.
Of course, the best thing that a law student could have done would have been to talk to as many seasoned attorneys as possible before entering school. I think that the amount of people that take this step is minuscule.
To date, I've never met an attorney, outside of an irregularly successful relative who I consider an outlier, that recommended the legal profession.
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03-31-2011, 11:08 PM
Few thoughts based upon recent posts –
Considering that most people go to college and right onto law school and given that you have to plan a lot of your college curriculum around preparing for the LSAT exam and law school – consider this and I would bet this applies to all fields – this is wisdom for any guy still in school –
Analogy – never ask the bait and tackle store owner if the fish are biting because they ‘always are’
The college industrial complex feeds on itself. Your college/law school adviser at a career fair or other function is a salesman, short and simple. Further, most college or law school ‘salesmen’ have never had jobs in private industry for more than a few years – in other words they have never worked outside of academia which is its own little world. When you couple that with the fact that college guidance counselors are, in and of themselves, usually a bunch of loosers – the worst people you should be seeking advice from are your ‘career counselors’ – The same goes for ‘speakers’ brought in to talk to students about their ‘experiences’ – the type of guy that volunteers for these engagements is usually a salesman – here’s an example. My old college brought in a public interest lawyer who worked on behalf of the homeless to talk about that career path. She made about 45k in that type of job. She was a year ahead of me and I knew her and her setup. Now – what is the ‘rub’ – it’s that this little Jewish American Princess was living a 200k a year lifestyle thanks to her parents money – so she ‘worked’ on behalf of the homeless but wore Prada and had a 3rd floor brown stone apartment in Brooklyn at $3800 a month and vacationed in Italy every summer. I was in that apartment. The appearance of fulfilling work and the lifestyle is a façade – if you had 125k in law school loans and worked for the homeless - you could not afford an apartment in the worst neighborhood in Brooklyn at this point on that salary –
I would never be invited to speak to college students and their parents considering law school because I would sit down with them and talk about what I did in this post – I would tell a female applicant that I gave my brother two pieces of advice when he went to law school in Boston – 1. Don’t fall behind with the work 2. Don’t date lawyers. I would tell her that 90% of corporate high rollers don’t want a female representing them. I would not. I would tell her that her marriage market value would decline greatly by becoming a lawyer. I would tell her that she should concentrate on finding a suitable husband and starting a family first while she is most marry-able and beautiful (assuming she was over a 5 rating I guess) If she were ‘middle class’ I would tell her that the ‘up front’ money and time law school takes up are not worth the return on investment unless you grade very very high and work 60 to 80 hours a week for very little money upon graduation. I would tell her that using the money for school instead to purchase a nice wardrobe, language skills and culture skills and keeping a big bank account will take her further in life than a piece of paper with juris doctor written on it.
If a young man came in that looked physically and mentally healthy I would tell him that he should goto law school only if it was a pen-ultimate dream of his since birth - or if he got a free ride – or that if he wanted to work in a City/State agency – he should get a job in an interesting division as a non-lawyer and then go to law school part time over 5 years to get the automatic increase in pay. I would tell him about up front costs – how the legal field operates – how many years of work after law school are required to actually know that the fuck you are doing -
I would tell everyone that if you can get in to a top 25 law school you should go – 2nd tier maybe go if you can get it cheap – 3rd and 4th tier just forget it.
I would tell the applicants to just go down to one of their local Courts on a Tuesday or Wednesday when they are hearing motions – just go from Courtroom to Courtroom and look at the people and the Judges – look at the old timers – see what they look like at 55, 60, 65 years of age and ask yourself is that what you want to risk looking like at that age. Do you really want to be bullshitting about a case you tried 20 years ago on a Tuesday morning at that age. Realize that practicing law is a very time consuming endeavor no matter how good you get at it – and that this will probably take a toll on you.
I ask any of you to do this – just hang out in a Courthouse on a busy day and look around. I know I am impugning myself with all this too in a way.
Also – at 18 to 21 years of age – 90% of youth have no life experiences – they have not been out of the United States – they don’t even have a sense of the differences in people and living conditions just between the US and Canada – a lot of my advice would go over their heads as well. There would have been no use telling me anything at age 18.
There are few people I instinctively distrust more than eternal optimists
“Law school is a wonderful opportunity to study with advances minds and scholars”
“Law school students are the best and brightest minds”
“You can do anything with a law degree”
“Its wonderful you are going to become a lawyer”
The reality is that law is probably just at the tip of the spear of sick corporate America – all the mental problems, Prozac, unhealthy living, etc. just seems to show itself in lawyers first and foremost. It’s a terrible thing, but a young but fairly healthy woman in touch with her natural instincts to nest and reproduce but a low iq would make a better wife and mother than 99.9999% of female lawyers I have ever met. The .1% is from one woman I know who got a full scholarship to law school – worked for 4 years at a high end Manhattan firm, met her husband, left law, and now home-schools her 4 kids and swims 5 miles a day in the Town pool. Very religious person.
Here’s a story about the ‘status’ being a lawyer gives – this past St. Patrick’s day I was at a high end and packed lounge bar near where I work – I was doing very well with a 30 something Brazilian spa employee – I was just hitting this one out of the park – one after the other. Shows me all the tattoo’s on her back – puts my hands on her, etc. After watching her down about 5 shots of Patron – I thought I was going to get orally lucky in the bathroom and she repeatedly wet her lips at me. I was expensively suited down but she had no idea what I did for a living. She then invited me for a nightcap and to ‘continue to party’ at a bar I know by her house – which was about 50 minutes highway driving north from where we were. I found out she was driving and frankly I did not want to drive that way and said:
Kirk: “Hey – you downed about a quart of alcohol tonight – in about 15 minutes at 11:00 pm the police will have DUI checkpoints at every entrance or exit ramp off of Interstate-XXX for 5 miles around here – you could get in big trouble. You better stay here -
Her: “Oh my God you just lost it”
Kirk: “I know the LEO guys up here and I know what goes on around here on March 17 – if you get flagged at a . . .. “
Her: “You lost so many points just now for saying that – you’re a lawyer – are you married? – I think you’re married”
That was the end of that part of the night – funny as hell. My best line that night comes from knowledge I gained from these Boards –
Kirk “So what part of Brazil are you from, you are lighter skinned than many of my Brazilian friends”
Her: “Ohhhh I come from a different part . . . – a city in Southern Brazil”
Kirk: “You mean Curitiba?”
Her: “Oh my God Ohhhhhh my God, no one knows that City from USA – oh my God you are scoring so many points with me . . . oh my oh my .<kiss> - look at this tattoo on my lower back - that’s where I come from . . .it is so beautiful and so European . . .<kiss> “
Someone interpret how I phucked that one up. . .
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04-01-2011, 10:41 AM
For gods sake, I had to come to abandoned and strange corners of the internet like this forum just to find honest answers about the legal industry. That alone should tell you something
Contributor at Return of Kings. I got banned from twatter, which is run by little bitches and weaklings. You can
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