[DarkTriad]

Specificly this one

"4. Attempt to kiss Bernie [the non responsive girl]. It’s more important that you attempt the kiss than actually get it. This is because you want to establish a sexual frame to make it clear that friendship is not on the table. You don’t want to realize on the first date that you’re in the friend zone when you hoped to be in the fuck zone. I must say that I’ve never been friend zoned so much as in Ukraine, basically because my sexual intent was too weak early in the interaction."

Is this a good general rule even in America?

A girl from my gym had been very friendly/flirty for a long time, asked her if she wanted to grab a bite after training next time. She shows up to training wearing something between a workout outfit and a negligee', along with enough make up to make a prostitute blush. This was especially innappropriate because it was a martial arts school - Things were looking up already!

After training, we head to the bar and things start to head south rapidly. She mentions that she has been involved in an extended cocktease relationship with another instructor, and that she regrets "leading him on" - must have been really bad if even the woman feels bad about it! The vibe is getting weak, but after what happened to my friend, I don't feel like being another friendzone victim, so I just go for the kiss anyway.

She backs away and angrily yells "This is NOT a date!". I give her a flabbergasted expression, and she says "You're not going to be one of THOSE guys....". This was blatantly manipulative...but fairly effective girl-game - props. She follows up with the soliphistic (and borderline sociopathic) - "I need guys that are going to just DO things for me and not expect anything sexual in return". I give her a ride back to her car and we part ways.

I still feel like I made the right move in the circumstances, what are your thoughts? Keep in mind I've got to see this girl on a regular basis at the gym, and we share the same social circle there.

[presidentcarter]

You went for it and failed, so what? She's trying to pull you into her beta-orbit which would basically blacklist a girl for me. I assume you aren't interested in her friendship, so what use to you is she now? Just be generically pleasant and friendly as to not create social circle waves. You got the kiss attempt out of the way and she had to play her hand ("I need guys that are going to just DO things for me and not expect anything sexual in return"). At this point you need to treat her like any other random acquaintance at the gym - at most a "hey, how are you?" when you see her. Doesn't have to be awkward, just be sure to show that you went for what YOU wanted, didn't get it, and are moving on and investing resources elsewhere.

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-15-2013 05:37 PM)DarkTriad Wrote:  

After training, we head to the bar and things start to head south rapidly. She mentions that she has been involved in an extended cocktease relationship with another instructor, and that she regrets "leading him on" - must have been really bad if even the woman feels bad about it! The vibe is getting weak, but after what happened to my friend, I don't feel like being another friendzone victim, so I just go for the kiss anyway.

Couple of thoughts
1) Dangerous social parasite - If she's not fucking you, or not helping you get chicks, she's not your friend. She's in this guy group to stoke her own ego. Women live to tease. Indeed, she might not even be doing it consciously, she may be doing it naturally, the worst kind of woman. No responsibility for her actions.

2) She's got the goods on you. At anytime she can drop how she rejected you in front of the squad to kill your rep, and possibly inspire crew rivalries. This is how wars start, and definitely how friends break apart. The whole bros before ho's thing comes out of this.

3) You're going to be obsessed with fucking her. Grudgefucks are perfectly normal male fantasy, and with enough game and time, it could happen. But Ahab, while stalking your great white whale, you will lose a lot, especially if you focus on it.

4) The best revenge is living a better life. If you all go out together, PULL. Pull a chick *that* night, and make sure you shut the Witch down if she tries to get your attention. Do that shit repeatedly. It's like flaking on a chick, you don't do it just to do it, you do it because you have a busy rotation

5) If you've got some good chicks in your fuck buddy rotation, you should ask them how they deal with leech friends. Cause the only solution here is to socially isolate this chick. Gossip, intrigue, rumors, insinuations - that's the province of a socially savvy chick.

Not inviting her to things would work, *if* you were the leader of your crew. Or inviting chicks hotter than her out with your boys, and having your boys attention elsewhere.

But what really needs to happen is that she finds a boyfriend, in which case no dude is gonna want to invite her and the boyfriend out for drinks/clubs, whatever.

WIA