[TheRookie]

File this under Red Pill: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashio...#permid=10

Quote:

Perhaps we can look at this from a different perspective. Yes, it might appear to be a little cheesy to just, "hang out" with these guys rather than a full blown date. I get that. Guys, put a little more into it than that. But not much more; unless the woman is worth it.

I have recently ended a wonderful 20 year run of being a single Father. I am getting married to a fabulous woman. I had most of the custody, so much of my time was spent with my 2 children. The experience gave me a different perspective; the important and quality of loving someone, and what you will do for those who you adore.

When I was first divorced, I went out on the traditional dates; setting it all up, taking women to nice venues, treating them like queens. You can never treat a great woman too well. Therein lies the rub. I quickly recognized that very few women in my age category (I was born in 1960) had put much into themselves; beyond being self absorbed. In this culture, most women seem to have been lead to believe that they should have equal rights, but not equal responsibilities. It's called situational feminism.

So, I cut back on the lavishness of it all; most women I had coffee dates with did not measure up. Frankly, I would rather spend money on my buddies.

Most of you are not even worth the price of the cup of Joe. those that are, have no reason to worry. Good guys will follow up a coffee date with much more quality. Nothing wrong with a guy waiting until there is proof

Note the response of some feminist: "Well don't you sound like a prize."

[TheRookie]

Also this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashio...#permid=24

Quote:

Twenty-something male here. I've been single for the past year and between parties, OkCupid, and bars, probably got numbers from about 30 different girls.

It was WAY easier to get a girl to actually show up to an informal "hang out" or "tag along" to an event than to commit to a date. I probably had 10-15 instances of girls flaking out of previously agreed-upon "dates" via text at the last possible minute.

Personally I'm fine with the lack of ambiguity of a "date". I like knowing that we're both there for the explicit purpose of seeing if there's anything promising between us. Most guys my age I talk to are fine with it. But most guys I talk to have also repeatedly been flaked out on and stopped setting up dates for that reason.

I think there's a sense that girls feel a lot of pressure to immediately make a decision about how she feels about a guy on a "date". What if he tries to kiss her? What if he invites her back to his place? She doesn't have a graceful way out. She might have to reject him. She can't let attraction build organically. It's a lot of pressure. And, inevitably, if she's presented with a "low-pressure" alternative of something to do at the time of the "high-pressure" date, she'll often take the escape valve of a quick text message to get out of it. After all, she can always reschedule. And if he resents it? Well, there are plenty of other great guys out there. Et cetera.

This street runs both ways.

[speakeasy]

God, that article was depressing on so many levels. I really hate the direction society is going. This is going all going to end badly, I guarantee you.

Even hearing the job titles of these SWPL dorks makes me nauseous, "Online marketing manager", "branding strategist"...do people have real fucking jobs anymore that produce something useful?

[Parlay44]

There's a lot of gold in that article.

Quote:

Raised in the age of so-called “hookup culture,” millennials — who are reaching an age where they are starting to think about settling down — are subverting the rules of courtship.

What age is that? After your expiration date? After you've hit "the wall"?

Quote:

In interviews with students, many graduating seniors did not know the first thing about the basic mechanics of a traditional date. “They’re wondering, ‘If you like someone, how would you walk up to them? What would you say? What words would you use?’ ” Ms. Freitas said.

Christ almighty.

[Captain Ahab]

(01-12-2013 08:36 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

There's a lot of gold in that article.

Quote:

Raised in the age of so-called “hookup culture,” millennials — who are reaching an age where they are starting to think about settling down — are subverting the rules of courtship.

What age is that? After your expiration date? After you've hit "the wall"?

Quote:

In interviews with students, many graduating seniors did not know the first thing about the basic mechanics of a traditional date. “They’re wondering, ‘If you like someone, how would you walk up to them? What would you say? What words would you use?’ ” Ms. Freitas said.

Christ almighty.

And this is one of the biggest screw ups of my generation. We totally focused on sex and forgot about courtship and romance. When I told a co-worker that if she wanted to learn how to dance she had to know how to "make love" to the music she responded "people are age don't make love. We F-U-C-K."

Yep. Instant gratification at all costs. Even in the context of marriage we are assessing are next level of self-satisfaction via the cute boy or girl we just added on FB.

Nobody knows the meaning of sacrifice.

This is what happens when we mix economic success, individualism, feminism, and broken homes that cover our nation.

But fuck it, at least I know this now rather than at 35 with a wife who jumps ship for some self-help native american guru spitting out Power of Now, Four Agreements rhetoric. I can now hop into the matrix knowing what is real and what is not.

I have taken the red pill.

[Veloce]

(01-12-2013 05:23 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

Also this: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/fashio...#permid=24

Quote:

Twenty-something male here. I've been single for the past year and between parties, OkCupid, and bars, probably got numbers from about 30 different girls.

It was WAY easier to get a girl to actually show up to an informal "hang out" or "tag along" to an event than to commit to a date. I probably had 10-15 instances of girls flaking out of previously agreed-upon "dates" via text at the last possible minute.

Personally I'm fine with the lack of ambiguity of a "date". I like knowing that we're both there for the explicit purpose of seeing if there's anything promising between us. Most guys my age I talk to are fine with it. But most guys I talk to have also repeatedly been flaked out on and stopped setting up dates for that reason.

I think there's a sense that girls feel a lot of pressure to immediately make a decision about how she feels about a guy on a "date". What if he tries to kiss her? What if he invites her back to his place? She doesn't have a graceful way out. She might have to reject him. She can't let attraction build organically. It's a lot of pressure. And, inevitably, if she's presented with a "low-pressure" alternative of something to do at the time of the "high-pressure" date, she'll often take the escape valve of a quick text message to get out of it. After all, she can always reschedule. And if he resents it? Well, there are plenty of other great guys out there. Et cetera.

This street runs both ways.

A full year of bars, OKC, and parties, and he only got 30 numbers?

[Caligula]

(01-12-2013 09:24 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

A full year of bars, OKC, and parties, and he only got 30 numbers?

And that's just numbers. We all know how much a number is worth.

[UrbanNerd]

The decline of traditional "courting" like other things is due to one side's abuse. Too much risk of time and money for all that courting, plus often times it puts a heavy risk on the guy.

I like the fact that guys are not "putting everything on the line" just for a bang.

[TheRookie]

Quote:

A full year of bars, OKC, and parties, and he only got 30 numbers?

Haha, I thought that was pretty good for a likely greater beta.

[Tex Pro]

Personally, I see the "End of Courtship" as a good thing.

I don't get all the doom and gloom.

If you are going to "date" (aka fuck) American women, then the best thing for any player still stuck in the USA is that the cost per notch be low. American women are a bad investment otherwise.

[Teedub]

(01-12-2013 10:40 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

Quote:

A full year of bars, OKC, and parties, and he only got 30 numbers?

Haha, I thought that was pretty good for a likely greater beta.

So did I!

[bacon]

the thought of dating an american women is laughable after having had the experience of dating girls in the philippines, peru and mexico. in all of those countries ive had girlfriends do my laundry by hand(it takes a good hour of labor to do a load). not only that but they are pleasant to be around, something ive almost never found in my past dating experiences in the USA. if i had to live in the us, i would NEVER date(make girlfriend) an american girl, they are not worthy of anything more than my cum in their face.

[Veloce]

(01-13-2013 01:31 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

(01-12-2013 10:40 PM)TheRookie Wrote:  

Quote:

A full year of bars, OKC, and parties, and he only got 30 numbers?

Haha, I thought that was pretty good for a likely greater beta.

So did I!

True. Makes no sense for me to be holding a random Joe Shmoe to RVF Standards.

As an aside, I noticed that one bitch talking about how she "demands more" and goes on fancy dates with roses and such...she's from San Francisco.

One thing I noticed there on my most recent trip was a lot of wealthy dudes taking girls on expensive dates. I was doing a little food tour for myself and ate in some nice places. Not the top places in the city that run 200-300 bucks per person, but definitely upscale places. In several instances I was seated next to couples out on a date and I was pretty astonished...these girls were 6s at best, being courted by good looking, well dressed, interesting, wealthy men. Granted the main places I was hanging out was Noe Valley and the Financial District. But still, I watched these frumpy, overweight chicks with no style being treated like a princess by these guys, and immediately thought, "Dude...what are you DOING?!"

I feel like I don't see that very often in L.A. Here it seems more like the "hangout" culture outlined in this article. I can't remember the last time I went on a formal "date" with a girl that wasn't my gf, and even her I just take her out for some shots and street tacos and she's ready to fuck.

[Excelsior]

(01-12-2013 08:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Even hearing the job titles of these SWPL dorks makes me nauseous, "Online marketing manager", "branding strategist"...do people have real fucking jobs anymore that produce something useful?

Not in the west.

Western society has reached the age of decadence-it has grown too rich. We outsource all of the hard work to people in poorer parts of the world who we are sure will only make a fraction of what we'd consider a "livable wage". This allows us to remain rich, buy a lot of stuff (more than we'd be able to if we made it ourselves), and generally avoid the kind of hard work generations before us had to engage in.

We can afford to grow up and become "branding strategists" now because other folks are doing the manufacturing and engineering (we import them for that purpose as well).

We're the global equivalent of the bourgeoisie. The rest of the world exists, in essence, to preserve our wealth.
How long will this last? I dunno. I wouldn't count on much change before the end of my lifetime, but you never know. Cracks have already appeared in the system.

[Beyond Borders]

(01-14-2013 01:18 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

(01-12-2013 08:08 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Even hearing the job titles of these SWPL dorks makes me nauseous, "Online marketing manager", "branding strategist"...do people have real fucking jobs anymore that produce something useful?

Not in the west.

Western society has reached the age of decadence-it has grown too rich. We outsource all of the hard work to people in poorer parts of the world who we are sure will only make a fraction of what we'd consider a "livable wage". This allows us to remain rich, buy a lot of stuff (more than we'd be able to if we made it ourselves), and generally avoid the kind of hard work generations before us had to engage in.

We can afford to grow up and become "branding strategists" now because other folks are doing the manufacturing and engineering (we import them for that purpose as well).

We're the global equivalent of the bourgeoisie. The rest of the world exists, in essence, to preserve our wealth.
How long will this last? I dunno. I wouldn't count on much change before the end of my lifetime, but you never know. Cracks have already appeared in the system.

I don't know...

These positions don't have clear titles because it's still a relatively new concept. But I assure you that people who help companies with their online marketing and branding strategies are providing a substantial profit to the companies they work with.

And thus the good providers make a shitload of cash doing this.

Marketing is extremely useful in the business world. Without it companies perish and the right campaigns make people rich (as well as spread word about whatever "solution" is for sale to those who need or want it).

That applies to online strategists as well. They're not yet mandatory for business survival but may very well be someday and for the time being provide a valuable service.