[Cruisen_Chubby]

I have found forums listing some disadvantages that good-looking guys may encounter while gaming; and I consider the advantages to be blatantly obvious.

I am interested on how the man-pretty gamers on the RVF are approaching the game and some pretty good tactics for you. Roosh's post the other day got me thinking.

Of course it is a bit easier for good-looking guys to get the lay if the attraction is there beforehand- but as many commenters have stated (and I agree with): Many good-looking guys are shy and have horrible game. Of course there are caveats to this and these guys have game oozing out every oriface.

I personally consider going to the gym to be good advertisement. I don't approach girls in the gym (usually)- but will typically see a girl out or at a party and she will bring it up (cause she's tipsy).

Disclaimer: I go to the gym to sculpt- not just for the chicks.

Anywho- What do you sexy cats do in terms of game nowadays?

[OGNorCal707]

Good looking guy game.... Show up to bar... Order drink... Stand around... Wait for girls to enter your orbit and eye fuck the shit out of you... Raise your glass to click theirs' or say hello... Girl stares at you with puppy dog eyes, and makes every effort to aid the conversation... Initiate kino if she hasn't already... Initiate kiss... Say let's get out of here... Walk to your car... Drive home... Fuck the shit out of her....

Sorry guys, but it's that easy if you are a "good looking guy". I'd say I'm probably a 7, so while I'm pretty good looking, I almost never have *hot* chicks eye fuck me or go out of their way to approach me and facilitate the pick up. I have a good friend who is very handsome 6 ft. 5 in., and dude doesn't even need game!

As long as you aren't a psycho and are able to maintain eye contact and hold a conversation you are golden if you're a good looking guy. Women will give you a free pass if you say something dumb, the conversation lags, and will actively invest in the conversation and help it progress, whereas most women will expect a less handsome man to be charming, witty, and forward the conversation every time.

All this disadvantages for good looking guys is absolute BULLSHIT! For the good looking guys who say they don't get laid, because their game sucks, I'd say you're probably not as good looking as you think you are.

There was a time on this forum where looks vs. game threads were getting mad played out, but it was trendy to bash a guy for being a "game denialist". Well the fact of the matter is pretty clear to me, in PUA circles (and this constitutes that), it is sacreligious to admit that looks can and do most often trump game. Guys like Roosh and RSD have built an entire business empire on the premise that any guy can be successful with women using game, despite their looks.

I give kudos to Roosh for after God knows how many years blogging and writing about game to finally come out and admit the importance of looks. Game can only take you so far my friends, but it can take you much farther than where you are now. Game will always be most important for guys in the 5-7 range, it can be the X factor and difference between getting no women and getting laid, and also allow a guy to maybe date up a point or possibly two. For good looking guys it can be the difference between have one girl or a harem, or exclusively dating 8+ women.

In the end looks matter big, and if you're a good looking guy who is a pussy and has no game, well I don't feel sorry for you. You are still probably getting laid more and with better quality than with guys who are less attractive, but have better game than you.

[Cruisen_Chubby]

Good point.

It must be remembered that basic tenets of game involve working on one's appearance- i.e. lifting weights, dressing well, nice grooming.

If you take out charisma, approaching, etc. I would say this part of the game helps you out a large percent.

I, on the other hand, have a buddy that I modeled/stripped with.

He is European, average height, electrib blue eyes, well-groomed, and in shape. Girls find him very attractive and will tell me so as they know I'm good friends with him. I will relay the message but he is too much of a pussy to pull the trigger.

I think his old girlfriend really fucked up his self-esteem. if, by some devine miracle, he does bed a girl- she is sub-par, especially for a man of his attractiveness.

I remember ending up one night in a Hilton hotel with 6 girls from a modeling convention nearby. They met us while we were doing a show. I was busy shoving my fingers down the throat of queen bee in the bathroom while ramming her doggy- he was busy "talking" to the other 5 who were sharing two beds... ARE YOU KIDDING ME

Girls will approach him in the gym and at the bars, but if they literally do not come out and say "fuck me" or lead him all the way from A-Z it just will not happen.

Looks are great- but damn, a little charisma and people skills are needed.

[WestCoast]

Good looks is a massive help in the usa.

This is why I laugh at all the IRT bashing on this forum and "race trolling". There are so many threads on it now its ridiculous.

Your ethnicity is part of your looks.

I don't even bother posting the facts on how to determine your looks value based on ethnicity (many studies have been done on this) because it will be "trolling".

Anyway, knowing good looks matter you should invest time in the following:

1. Find exact proportions that are ideal for your height (chest, waist, legs, arms, etc.) work to that ideal body type.
2. Find clothes that match your current body type and your future ideal body type.
3. Smile in front of a mirror take a photo, find the improper symmetry and you can work on your face muscles in a mirror as well (people who say you can't change your face are also trolls)
4. Continue to practice game, you want to game when you are ugly, so if you can pull a 5 when you're a 3... You'll get that 8+ when you fix your life and are a 6-7.

But anyway, OG is right overall on the impact of looks, hold convo "lets get out of here" that's about it.

[Cruisen_Chubby]

I guess I was more referring to day-gaming (This is my strong suit). I am in college and will typically meet girls, but I want to expedite this process. Can I complain now? Nay, I cannot. But I was just wondering how good-lookin' cats approach day game scenarios.

Seems like we are focusing more on bar game, which is not to be neglected, but I figure most of that we would consider obvious.

[ComebackKid]

(12-06-2012 03:42 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

3. Smile in front of a mirror take a photo, find the improper symmetry and you can work on your face muscles in a mirror as well (people who say you can't change your face are also trolls)

Could you say more about this?

[Don]

(12-06-2012 03:42 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

3. Smile in front of a mirror take a photo, find the improper symmetry and you can work on your face muscles in a mirror as well (people who say you can't change your face are also trolls)

please be trolling. Work your face muscles in the mirror? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard

[WestCoast]

This is not a troll.

You simply smile in front of a mirror. Snap a photo.

Step two smile infront of a mirror partially intoxicated. Snap a photo.

Step three smile in front of a mirror after a heavy workout. Snap a photo.

Place them on your desktop and find which one is most attractive. Step 4 is to designate which side is most attractive or simply point out missed symmetry. Attractiveness is nothing but the lines and symmetry. No one is perfectly symmetrical so you can fix small pieces.

So, the solution is to work the side of your face when you are in the shower or if you are bored in front of your computer. Do this for a year and your face absolutely will change.

For one, people with long-term good and easy lives have wrinkles on the aides of their eyes due to real smiles. You will also see "laugh" lines on their face.

People sculpt their bodies with years of training. Years. To achieve aesthetics. Your face has many muscles what makes you think you can't change them?

Plastic surgery is nothing but realigning symmetry... Much like everything else it takes years of work, I can show a photo of myself over 5 years, you can "believe" I just got more attractive as I got "older" but really it's a confluence of increased symmetry and looking older.

So with all that given, your face is just a muscle which can gain and lose size... Why can't you make one or the other side more symmetrical?

[20Nation]

(12-06-2012 07:19 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

This is not a troll.

You simply smile in front of a mirror. Snap a photo.

Step two smile infront of a mirror partially intoxicated. Snap a photo.

Step three smile in front of a mirror after a heavy workout. Snap a photo.

Place them on your desktop and find which one is most attractive. Step 4 is to designate which side is most attractive or simply point out missed symmetry. Attractiveness is nothing but the lines and symmetry. No one is perfectly symmetrical so you can fix small pieces.

So, the solution is to work the side of your face when you are in the shower or if you are bored in front of your computer. Do this for a year and your face absolutely will change.

For one, people with long-term good and easy lives have wrinkles on the aides of their eyes due to real smiles. You will also see "laugh" lines on their face.

People sculpt their bodies with years of training. Years. To achieve aesthetics. Your face has many muscles what makes you think you can't change them?

Plastic surgery is nothing but realigning symmetry... Much like everything else it takes years of work, I can show a photo of myself over 5 years, you can "believe" I just got more attractive as I got "older" but really it's a confluence of increased symmetry and looking older.

So with all that given, your face is just a muscle which can gain and lose size... Why can't you make one or the other side more symmetrical?

I 100% agree. People who knew me from high school (wasn't so good looking) to now are always wondering why I'm better looking. Good looking people are always smiling with their eyes. Good facial body language honestly contributes to a large portion of good looks, and over time it will change your face.

[relo]

What do you mean by working on your face? Flexing one sides muscles? BTW I've lost like 40 lbs and my cheeks are very loose, anything I can do to tighten them up?

[Screwston]

(12-06-2012 03:42 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

Your ethnicity is part of your looks.

I don't even bother posting the facts on how to determine your looks value based on ethnicity (many studies have been done on this) because it will be "trolling".

Can you PM me more info on this? I've never heard about it...

[Spike]

More info on the face muscling please. Studies, links, before/after pictures

[soup]

Can IRT be considered a guru?

[memcpy]

Can defiantly say looks don't matter as much in Japan. Seen too many busted looking dudes with hot girls. 40 year old guys with 20 year olds, I see from time to time.

[ComebackKid]

(12-07-2012 05:22 AM)Neil Skywalker Wrote:  

More info on the face muscling please. Studies, links, before/after pictures

Seconded.

[Magic Bullets]

If I could count how many times I have seen scrawny, overweight or below average looking men scoring desirable women I would be a millionaire. Probably it is to their advantage in that they have nothing to loose and have less of an image to uphold. I find going to the gym, does make you feel and look great however it also can make you less likely to put your ego on the line. I have also notised that when guys rely on looks and physique they are doing what women do in reverse. You could probably add fashion sense into the mix as well, this is probably along with game what gets a man over the line in my view. Where I see a lot of young guys going wrong is they can't differentiate between masculine and feminine beauty. This is happening now where a lot of guys have an androgenous look about them.

[Andy_B]

From the sounds of Roosh's post, he's talking about a guy in the very high (8.5+) looks range.

[TheMan]

(12-07-2012 06:56 AM)soup Wrote:  

Can IRT be considered a guru?

...mGURU

FTFY

[Andy_B]

(12-06-2012 07:19 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

So with all that given, your face is just a muscle which can gain and lose size... Why can't you make one or the other side more symmetrical?

What if the asymmetry is resulting from bone structure, like a crooked jaw?

[anewtypedude]

Don't waste your time. Symmetry only has around a .35 correlation with physical attractiveness. That is far from "everything".

[allgood]

(12-06-2012 03:06 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

Good looking guy game.... Show up to bar... Order drink... Stand around... Wait for girls to enter your orbit and eye fuck the shit out of you... Raise your glass to click theirs' or say hello... Girl stares at you with puppy dog eyes, and makes every effort to aid the conversation... Initiate kino if she hasn't already... Initiate kiss... Say let's get out of here... Walk to your car... Drive home... Fuck the shit out of her....

Sorry guys, but it's that easy if you are a "good looking guy"...

...All this disadvantages for good looking guys is absolute BULLSHIT! For the good looking guys who say they don't get laid, because their game sucks, I'd say you're probably not as good looking as you think you are.

In the end looks matter big, and if you're a good looking guy who is a pussy and has no game, well I don't feel sorry for you. You are still probably getting laid more and with better quality than with guys who are less attractive, but have better game than you.

Why do you think it's 'easy'? I don't find that at all. Women stare me down all the time, but when I try to initiate a conversation they walk away. Do you know how many times I've crossed a bar, crossed the dance floor, to meet a girl who's been making eyes at me, or even just started a convo with the girl right next to me who has been smiling at me, only to have her turn her back, or start playing with her phone? How many times can you do that before you stop trying, to avoid further humiliation.

Girls often stop and stare at me, they even point at me to their friends and whisper to each other, and I've done modeling, so that tells me if good looking guy game works then it should work for me, I should be cleaning up with no effort as too many people assume, but it doesn't work that way.

(12-06-2012 03:38 PM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  

...I remember ending up one night in a Hilton hotel with 6 girls from a modeling convention nearby. They met us while we were doing a show. I was busy shoving my fingers down the throat of queen bee in the bathroom while ramming her doggy- he was busy "talking" to the other 5 who were sharing two beds... ARE YOU KIDDING ME...

...Looks are great- but damn, a little charisma and people skills are needed.

I can see a few reasons why your friend didn't make a move. He couldn't choose which one he wanted, no privacy, but most important, he doesn't have the skills to make a move without her backing off, even if she's giving him signals. Women are fucked - they give out signals, but when you act on them, they walk away.

How do you suggest he develop charisma and people skills so he can be more like you?

I don't think 'good looking guy' game exists at all except in peoples' minds. It's like a poor person wishing he was rich but ask a rich person how great life is, and they'll tell you about all their problems. The grass is always greener on the other side.

[OGNorCal707]

(12-09-2012 11:39 AM)allgood Wrote:  

Why do you think it's 'easy'? I don't find that at all. Women stare me down all the time, but when I try to initiate a conversation they walk away. Do you know how many times I've crossed a bar, crossed the dance floor, to meet a girl who's been making eyes at me, or even just started a convo with the girl right next to me who has been smiling at me, only to have her turn her back, or start playing with her phone? How many times can you do that before you stop trying, to avoid further humiliation.

Girls often stop and stare at me, they even point at me to their friends and whisper to each other, and I've done modeling, so that tells me if good looking guy game works then it should work for me, I should be cleaning up with no effort as too many people assume, but it doesn't work that way.

You sure they're staring at you and not some better looking guy, standing next to you, or behind you? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, since you claim to have "done modeling", not sure exactly what that constitutes. I know some guys often have an ego and think they are better looking than they really are (I have a good friend, who swears he looks like Brad Pitt and all I can do is ).

Anyway, if you really are that good looking of a guy and girls are eye fucking you, only to turn their backs and not acknowledge your existence, then I'd be willing to wager something else is "off" about you. Maybe you have an effeminate voice, maybe your body language is horrible, your voice cracks, you talk too fast, or you have horrible fashion sense.

Since I don't know you and have no idea what you look like or how you act, I can only make vague assumptions. All in all, from everything I read on the forum and other blogs, it sounds like there is a universal trend that women in the U.S. are becoming bitchier and harder to game.

That said, being handsome makes it 10X easier than for guys who are only slightly above average looking or worse. Most of my opinions on the subject are based on what I observe and going off the experiences of my "good looking" guy friends.

My best looking guy friend gets laid a lot and has lots of chicks sweating his nuts, but I will say that objectively speaking his game isn't very good. If most women would rate him an 8.5-9, he could be pulling women of that caliber, but most of this chicks are in the 7.5 to 8 range, so I guess you can say he technically dates down (although the girls are still good looking IMO).

Even though his game isn't tight and he "dates down" dude still gets laid more than 90% of guys in this town and with minimal effort. So you get these good looking guys who whine about dating down and societies expectations of them, but they are still pulling way more hot girls, way EASIER than a man with lessor looks.

[Apollo2]

OG, how does your good looking buddy get laid? Online? Social circle? One night stands from bars and clubs? Day game?

[OGNorCal707]

(12-09-2012 02:42 PM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

OG, how does your good looking buddy get laid? Online? Social circle? One night stands from bars and clubs? Day game?

Mostly night game at local dive bars, what I described earlier in the thread applies to him for the most part. Dude just posts up and chills at the bar, chicks will normally either enter his "orbit" stand in close proximity to him and stare at him with "fuck me" eyes, or outright approach and open him. If he gets the orbiting and fuck me eyes, he'll normally go off the IOIs and open with something simple, like "hey hows it going" and click her glass with his. At that point, they've gotten what they wanted, (he opened them in conversation), and they make every effort to help maintain and forward the conversation.

But... Like I said the guy doesn't have great game. He's in his late 20's, but he does bang a fair amount of cougars who pursue him, while they are older (thirties) they are still good looking, and basically do all the work, so all he has to do is fuck.

On top of all that dude gets laid from social circle and girls that just make it obvious that they are interested in him and his day to day life. I guess you could call it "day game", but the guy doesn't do much actual gaming. Chicks just initiate conversation with him at coffee shops, grocery stores, etc. When a woman makes it completely obvious that she's interested in you, it makes it a lot easier to just ask for her phone number, then text to her to hang out, as you would with any chick.

A good litmus test for how good looking a guy is (esp. in a small to mid-sized town) is whether he gets "missed connections" on craigslist. My good looking guy friend has gotten multiple "missed connections" and has even banged a handful of chicks from this.

[TheIndifferent]

(12-09-2012 02:59 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

(12-09-2012 02:42 PM)Apollo2 Wrote:  

OG, how does your good looking buddy get laid? Online? Social circle? One night stands from bars and clubs? Day game?

Mostly night game at local dive bars, what I described earlier in the thread applies to him for the most part. Dude just posts up and chills at the bar, chicks will normally either enter his "orbit" stand in close proximity to him and stare at him with "fuck me" eyes, or outright approach and open him. If he gets the orbiting and fuck me eyes, he'll normally go off the IOIs and open with something simple, like "hey hows it going" and click her glass with his. At that point, they've gotten what they wanted, (he opened them in conversation), and they make every effort to help maintain and forward the conversation.

But... Like I said the guy doesn't have great game. He's in his late 20's, but he does bang a fair amount of cougars who pursue him, while they are older (thirties) they are still good looking, and basically do all the work, so all he has to do is fuck.

On top of all that dude gets laid from social circle and girls that just make it obvious that they are interested in him and his day to day life. I guess you could call it "day game", but the guy doesn't do much actual gaming. Chicks just initiate conversation with him at coffee shops, grocery stores, etc. When a woman makes it completely obvious that she's interested in you, it makes it a lot easier to just ask for her phone number, then text to her to hang out, as you would with any chick.

A good litmus test for how good looking a guy is (esp. in a small to mid-sized town) is whether he gets "missed connections" on craigslist. My good looking guy friend has gotten multiple "missed connections" and has even banged a handful of chicks from this.

He scans the missed connections every day to see if a girl posts about him? I've always been curious about that.