[Roosh]

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

[Walderschmidt]

(11-29-2012 09:50 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 09:46 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 09:29 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

If a key opens many locks, it is a good key. Good keys are studs.

If a lock opens to many keys, it is a bad lock. Bad locks are sluts.

Wald

What is the stud good for? And the slut? This is a utilitarian view from the point of view of the stud yes? This is not a moral argument , correct?

There is a big difference between moral arguments and Machiavellian ones. There is no morality in nature. The weak lose, the strong win. But people who like morality can create moral structures and live by them if they want.

Fi you want to say "standard" in debating this, you should specify moral standard or Machiavellian, or selfish utilitarianism argument. They seem quite different.

I am not offering a moral judgement. I am attacking the idea of a double standard as I believe there is no such thing as a double standard. I imagine people complain about a double standard when they don't like someone judging a woman differently than a man or vice versa.

I suppose I am positing a Machiavellian argument.

As for MrXY - I don't dislike sluts.

I love them - they are great people - but I wouldn't knowingly commit to one.

Wald

[iknowexactly]

(11-29-2012 09:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

Beta!? No, that's Alpha-- "You've got to be all mine, bitch!!" hahah

I think everyone has the right to seek out whoever they want sexually.

It just seems like moral retardation to judge a woman that does exactly, exactly the same thing as he does. Maybe "slut" isn't a meant as a moral judgement sometimes. One of my favorite girls requested to be called one... and I think it's a riot!

[rationalize_this]

(11-29-2012 09:57 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 09:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

Beta!? No, that's Alpha-- "You've got to be all mine, bitch!!" hahah

"Beta is in the eye of the beholder" - Rationalize_this

[Carbonic]

(11-29-2012 08:04 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  

I'd weigh in that it IS a double standard, with a caveat.

Banging 3+ different chicks in a week gives you a thrill. There's no doubt. Especially, if like me, you spent most of your young life unsuccessful with women.

For many girls, it's equally thrilling. They shouldn't be faulted for doing it. Especially for girls recently out of a relationship, or worse, she got DUMPED, there's nothing better for her ego than to be desired, and fucked, by several men simultaneously. They can't be expected to live up to an antiquated male notion of chastity or restraint.

But as I mentioned, this comes down to value, and now we're talking biology.

If a man has many female partners, it increases his value. Modern feminists have come up with "man whore" or will call it "gross", but as we know from real world experience, their attraction increases when they get the hint that a guy knows what the fuck he is doing.

On the flip side, if a woman has many male partners, or shows a lack of restraint in consuming as much cock as possible, her value plummets. Why? Because it's too easy. Because it shows lack of discretion. It categorizes her as a girl to have fun with, but not one to entrust with any amount of emotional attachment or consideration for future commitment.

Pretty much every girl I've LTRed has been a slut, that's why I don't commit and keep banging on the side. I like keeping girls around if they're cool to hang out with and treat me well. I just don't have any misconceptions about them. I won't move in with them or put a ring on it, and I'll be the first to hit the road once I find something better. It might be fucked up, dishonest, and misleading, but that's just my way of adapting to the modern dating ethos that western women have adopted for themselves. If they think it's okay to take 30+ cocks or "explore themselves" doing god knows what that would make me vomit, they have to lie in their own bed and understand that I might value them enough to keep them around, but absolutely nothing more.

Bingo! I have one that I'm "keepin around" texting me as I write this. Your last paragraph states pretty much exactly what the state of affairs is for most women nowadays. When you do what they do too, the tides suddenly flip in your favor, and instead of having an "Ahh haa" moment when you leave them, they label you a douche for beating them at their own game.

[Carbonic]

(11-29-2012 09:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

With you on this. For myself, this is my own moral code so-to-speak, and a health & sexual preference issue as well.

[Yams]

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

[Walderschmidt]

(11-30-2012 10:15 AM)Yams Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

I'd feel like a chump if it took three dates to bang this girl when she is banging 4 other dudes. I would assume it didn't take them three dates.

[slubu]

(11-29-2012 09:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

Exactly. This is the point I was making about 4 cocks in succession versus 4 cocks simultaneously. I'm ok with the former, and the latter makes me uneasy.

(11-30-2012 10:36 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 10:15 AM)Yams Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

I'd feel like a chump if it took three dates to bang this girl when she is banging 4 other dudes. I would assume it didn't take them three dates.

It's not as if all those things were done/disclosed on date 1. She masturbated in my car, found out her friends were sluts and that she does coke/parties a lot all in the last 5 days. As for the dates, as long as I'm physically escalating and advancing each time I don't mind. Fingered first date, BJ next date, bang 3rd.

[oregonziggy]

I feel your pain. Even though I know all women are sluts. Every once in a while you let your guard down for one and bam! Even at my age it is still hard sometimes to comprehend that there are no decent women in America.

Personally I am glad It happens every once in a while.

[HiFlo]

A rude awakening indeed.

I had my own rude awakening not too long ago, and I haven't yet fully come to terms with it 5 months later.

You can take the girl out of the whore, but you can't take the whore out of the girl. No you can't.

[slubu]

(11-29-2012 09:29 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 06:23 PM)tiggaling Wrote:  

That a female is doing the same thing and you are judging her, I call that classic double standard.

There is no standard - men and women are biologically different with two different imperatives - therefore they each have different standards.

Let us go over the parable (if it is not by now, a cliche on this forum) of the lock and the key.

Men are locks and women are keys.

The parable Wald refers to is explained as so:

"It is relatively difficult for a man to be sexually successful with women. It is relatively easy for women to be sexually successful with men. It is all about the degree of difficulty involved, which is precisely why promiscuous homosexual men are not begrudgingly respected the same way promiscuous normal men are. As the apt analogy has it, the key that can open a thousand different locks is a master key, whereas the lock that can be opened by a thousand different keys is a defective lock. There is no double standard, there are two different standards, distinguished by the varying degrees of difficulty."

(11-29-2012 09:37 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Problems for women arise when they conflate short term attractiveness for long term attractiveness.

This reminds me of one of Solomon's posts:

"But once again, a very simple principle is repeatedly ignored by women like this: They can choose to be sexually popular for a few short years in the eyes of every man, or opt for a lifetime of beauty in the eyes of the one man who loves them.

Beauty isn’t skin deep, and it doesn’t fade. Beauty is not a physical attribute; it’s an aura that is admired by men and women, young and old alike. Beauty is a timeless gift given freely and without hesitation as a birth right to all young women, but very few of them recognize, protect, or cherish it...women can age beautifully, but unfortunately, it takes a little grace, class and effort *gasp*, so the modern woman opts for being sexy in lieu of being beautiful. The world is crawling with sexy, ugly women who should not be valued for anything more than whats between their legs – it’s the only thing you can count on out of womankind these days."

Sluts are wonderful things. If there were no sluts, my life would suck as would most others' lives on here. However, my appreciation for sluts is in a certain regard (easier sex life) and does not extend into the arena where one considers a long term mate. In other words, a seasoned cock hopper cannot ever be realized as "beautiful" in my eyes.

[Capitán Peligroso]

A pessimist thinks all women are bad, an optimist hopes that they are...

[Walderschmidt]

(11-30-2012 11:02 AM)slubu Wrote:  

Exactly. This is the point I was making about 4 cocks in succession versus 4 cocks simultaneously. I'm ok with the former, and the latter makes me uneasy.

(11-30-2012 10:36 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 10:15 AM)Yams Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

I'd feel like a chump if it took three dates to bang this girl when she is banging 4 other dudes. I would assume it didn't take them three dates.

It's not as if all those things were done/disclosed on date 1. She masturbated in my car, found out her friends were sluts and that she does coke/parties a lot all in the last 5 days. As for the dates, as long as I'm physically escalating and advancing each time I don't mind. Fingered first date, BJ next date, bang 3rd.

I was not making a dig at you Slubu, but the way Yam presented his argument. The way he made it sound like, was that you knew all about those points on the 1st or 2nd date, and feel disgusted by it only after you've been sleeping with her for a while.

I understand that you didn't find everything out until recently. My point about feeling like a chump is hyperbole to demonstrate my point. I'd be a little disgusted with a girl if I found out what you did.

The very least I'd get myself heavily tested.

Wald

[el mechanico]

(11-30-2012 12:27 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 11:02 AM)slubu Wrote:  

Exactly. This is the point I was making about 4 cocks in succession versus 4 cocks simultaneously. I'm ok with the former, and the latter makes me uneasy.

(11-30-2012 10:36 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 10:15 AM)Yams Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

I'd feel like a chump if it took three dates to bang this girl when she is banging 4 other dudes. I would assume it didn't take them three dates.

It's not as if all those things were done/disclosed on date 1. She masturbated in my car, found out her friends were sluts and that she does coke/parties a lot all in the last 5 days. As for the dates, as long as I'm physically escalating and advancing each time I don't mind. Fingered first date, BJ next date, bang 3rd.

I was not making a dig at you Slubu, but the way Yam presented his argument. The way he made it sound like, was that you knew all about those points on the 1st or 2nd date, and feel disgusted by it only after you've been sleeping with her for a while.

I understand that you didn't find everything out until recently. My point about feeling like a chump is hyperbole to demonstrate my point. I'd be a little disgusted with a girl if I found out what you did.

The very least I'd get myself heavily tested.

Wald

Please dude

[Walderschmidt]

(11-30-2012 11:43 AM)slubu Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 09:37 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

Problems for women arise when they conflate short term attractiveness for long term attractiveness.

This reminds me of one of Solomon's posts:

"But once again, a very simple principle is repeatedly ignored by women like this: They can choose to be sexually popular for a few short years in the eyes of every man, or opt for a lifetime of beauty in the eyes of the one man who loves them.

Beauty isn’t skin deep, and it doesn’t fade. Beauty is not a physical attribute; it’s an aura that is admired by men and women, young and old alike. Beauty is a timeless gift given freely and without hesitation as a birth right to all young women, but very few of them recognize, protect, or cherish it...women can age beautifully, but unfortunately, it takes a little grace, class and effort *gasp*, so the modern woman opts for being sexy in lieu of being beautiful. The world is crawling with sexy, ugly women who should not be valued for anything more than whats between their legs – it’s the only thing you can count on out of womankind these days."

Sluts are wonderful things. If there were no sluts, my life would suck as would most others' lives on here. However, my appreciation for sluts is in a certain regard (easier sex life) and does not extend into the arena where one considers a long term mate. In other words, a seasoned cock hopper cannot ever be realized as "beautiful" in my eyes.

That's exactly where I got it from. Later, after Solomon II deleted his blog, Rollo Tomassi elaborated that same point further, though I can't remember what the name of that post is.

Wald

[Walderschmidt]

(11-30-2012 12:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Please dude

Please what?

[johnwu]

The fact that you've written an entire essay on your experience....

[el mechanico]

(11-30-2012 12:36 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Please dude

Please what?

The dude hooks up with a freaky chick, goes thru her phone, finds out she gets laid and now should feel like a chump or be disgusted? Get "tested heavily?"

I don't know what planet some of you are living on but I've been doing/seeing this for 30 years on a daily or weekly basis.

[WestCoast]

(11-30-2012 11:02 AM)slubu Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 09:53 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

There's a lot of guys here that will say it shouldn't matter who she fucks and that if she's giving you good sex then enjoy it and so on as long as you don't wife her up. In theory I have no problem with that point of view, but in reality I just don't feel comfortable banging a girl who is banging other guys. You can call that beta or traditional or whatever, but my dick goes soft if I know she's getting slammed by other dicks and taking them in her mouth.

There are too many girls out there who don't feel comfortable banging more than one guy at a time that I find it absolutely unnecessary to share a girl.

Exactly. This is the point I was making about 4 cocks in succession versus 4 cocks simultaneously. I'm ok with the former, and the latter makes me uneasy.

(11-30-2012 10:36 AM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 10:15 AM)Yams Wrote:  

(11-29-2012 02:55 PM)slubu Wrote:  

I wake up in the middle of the night and start putting some random clues together in my head about her potential slutiness. My mind on overdrive, I think about all the things I've mistakenly overlooked:

- she's been in two threesomes before
- she sends me dirty text pics
- she's in art school
- she's told me I have cart blanche to do whatever I want to her in bed
- she drinks, does coke, is a party girl when she goes out
- masturbates in the passenger seat of my car while driving
- enjoys and is quite talented at giving head
- her friends are sluts
- questioned me numerous times if i'm banging other girls
- she has a small tattoo above her vag

That is a huge list of things to overlook. I'm guessing that you ignored these things because it took 3 whole dates to bang her.

I'd feel like a chump if it took three dates to bang this girl when she is banging 4 other dudes. I would assume it didn't take them three dates.

It's not as if all those things were done/disclosed on date 1. She masturbated in my car, found out her friends were sluts and that she does coke/parties a lot all in the last 5 days. As for the dates, as long as I'm physically escalating and advancing each time I don't mind. Fingered first date, BJ next date, bang 3rd.

Honest question.

How do you know for sure the other girls you sre seeing are not doing the exact same thing... Are you more upset you caught her?

This day and age it's very hard for me to believe you can tell if a girl is a "good girl" or not. Unless she is a virgin you may as well assume she is seeing 3 dudes simultaneously.

Just assume every girl you are seeing is sleeping with 3 dudes. Chances are you're right.

This reminds me of when my best friend slept with a girl... On the day she got engaged. As soon as you believe you have a "good girl"... Chances are you just got played.

FYI: no cynicism in this pos, simply put,, if we can juggle 3-4 girls without getting caught, why can't a girl. It's even easier for her.

[Samseau]

(11-30-2012 12:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:36 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Please dude

Please what?

The dude hooks up with a freaky chick, goes thru her phone, finds out she gets laid and now should feel like a chump or be disgusted? Get "tested heavily?"

I don't know what planet some of you are living on but I've been doing/seeing this for 30 years on a daily or weekly basis.

I think Wald is being sensible. Fucking an extreme whore such as one who juggles 4 different cocks at once is a walking petri dish.


I think all girls are whores, but even the girls I bang don't usually juggle 4 dudes at once. That's a lot of cock, much more than the average skank.

[WesternCancer]

If we have the view that women exist for our sexual pleasure why should we care what she does with other guys. The only concern we should have is sexual health.

That being said this is much harder to put in practice if you tell yourself she's a nice girl to begin with. Each guy she talks about will make you jealous, every time you suspect 'hanging' out was a bang sesh you get mad. Like westcoast said assume she's fucking multiple guys. Don't be angry and blame it on 'girls having an easier time to fuck' go out there practice your game, improve your body and improve your mind, because when it comes down to it you're the most important person in your life, only your pleasure and your growth matters.

[el mechanico]

(11-30-2012 01:33 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:36 PM)Walderschmidt Wrote:  

(11-30-2012 12:28 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Please dude

Please what?

The dude hooks up with a freaky chick, goes thru her phone, finds out she gets laid and now should feel like a chump or be disgusted? Get "tested heavily?"

I don't know what planet some of you are living on but I've been doing/seeing this for 30 years on a daily or weekly basis.

I think Wald is being sensible. Fucking an extreme whore such as one who juggles 4 different cocks at once is a walking petri dish.


I think all girls are whores, but even the girls I bang don't usually juggle 4 dudes at once. That's a lot of cock, much more than the average skank.

You're not in Cali or Florida either. When I lived in CT we knew every single thing everyone did or does for the most part and people didn't move out of their circles much or some at all ever.

[Dr. Howard]

A few years ago I figured out that, for me, any rage or slut hate that I experience in my own life is really directed at myself. Its projection. I get pissed or angry or disgusted in my abilities not to read signals before they happen, or I'm pissed that I let myself get deceived.

Here was my clue, I've felt the same way if I my perceptions were thrown under the bus and I confronted the reality of being worked over in terms of money, girls or family its not a girl specific thing for me.

Stripper case in point. I wouldn't be mad if I brought a stripper home from the club and found out what she was sleeping with 17 other guys. That fits my frame of perception for a stipper and I'd fully expect to discover that. However if I thought I met a nice girl with a conservative attitutde and she turned out to be sleeping with 17 other guys I'd be pissed, pissed of that I didn't catch the deception and let myself get fooled.

For me, after improving myself and moderating my expectations I don't find myself raging against sluts as often. If they want to spend all of their social capital by age 23, their choice, they can live with the results.

[soup]

What does it matter if she's a slut or whore? You're a player. There will always be many more to replace her. Get the notch, and get out if you don't like it.