[Samseau]

(11-26-2012 06:25 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Samseau,

Did you choose game over religion?

How do you reconcile the two?

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17392-...#pid299969

[Giovonny]

(11-26-2012 06:34 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-17392-...#pid299969

Wow. That is one interesting and honest post! I might have some questions for you later..

[j r]

(11-26-2012 04:15 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Without strong family ties a nation will experience depopulation (already happening) and a loss of sense of community. Once that goes, so goes morality. Men won't feel guilty over crimes they commit because they have no more ties to the people they harm.

After that happens...

This process of social decay has happened literally thousands of times throughout history, and it already has started to come to America. It will only get worse.

I am curious to hear your examples. Much like the OP, I see a lot of truth to this narrative, but, at the same time, it seems a bit too self-referential. The real world is much more complicated than this.

For instance, you mention depopulation, by which I assume you mean falling birth rates. This isn't caused by a loss in family ties; it's caused by economic development. Poor people have more kids; there are a variety of reasons for this. As a society gets richer birth rates fall. Large families can lead to increased social cohesion, but it can also lead to increased tribalism and feuds among clans.

The other problem is that you're equating tradition with morality. Tradition only refers to a system that is stable enough to last for a long period of time; there's nothing necessarily moral about it. There is nothing more moral about a system where women get married at 20 than a system where women get married at 30. You just happen to find 20 year old women more desirable than 30 year old woman, so you're reasoning backwards that's the way it ought to be.

Granted, the current system is often enabled by forcing divorced men to subsidize their ex-wives and by forcing all of us to subsidize certain children. Traditionally societies, however, are no less likely to engage in forcing certain behavior in individuals. In fact, that's really the only way to maintain a traditional society.

[Goldin Boy]

(11-26-2012 03:28 PM)Craig Wrote:  

(11-26-2012 03:04 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Religious guy grows up thinking women are special god-like creatures.

Guy finds out women are just like everyone else.. (they like to fuck and have fun) (they like high status guys)

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

This guy grew up in a fantasy world, literally. This is what happens if you shelter your kids to much. When they finally do learn the true nature of the world, it can be hard for them to accept.

Ironic how the default response of the game community has been to blame the (seemingly hardworking, uncompromising, honest, ambitious) guy, not the slutty coeds. Next time a woman chooses a higher status man than you, applaud her.

5 people have said it previously and you didn't read: game is about adapting yourself to your environment to maximized the lays and LTR's you get.

You want the blame the women? The dude is bringing the Wright Brother's biplane into a dogfight against a F-22 Raptor and you think it's the Raptor pilots fault the other dude had an outdated model? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

It's his fault for not realized that his worldview is outdated and not trying to adapt when the truth is flying right in his face.

[NYJ]

(11-26-2012 09:42 PM)Goldin Boy Wrote:  

(11-26-2012 03:28 PM)Craig Wrote:  

(11-26-2012 03:04 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

Religious guy grows up thinking women are special god-like creatures.

Guy finds out women are just like everyone else.. (they like to fuck and have fun) (they like high status guys)

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

This guy grew up in a fantasy world, literally. This is what happens if you shelter your kids to much. When they finally do learn the true nature of the world, it can be hard for them to accept.

Ironic how the default response of the game community has been to blame the (seemingly hardworking, uncompromising, honest, ambitious) guy, not the slutty coeds. Next time a woman chooses a higher status man than you, applaud her.

5 people have said it previously and you didn't read: game is about adapting yourself to your environment to maximized the lays and LTR's you get.

You want the blame the women? The dude is bringing the Wright Brother's biplane into a dogfight against a F-22 Raptor and you think it's the Raptor pilots fault the other dude had an outdated model? Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

It's his fault for not realized that his worldview is outdated and not trying to adapt when the truth is flying right in his face.

Agreed. Even realizing all of this at 32, it's still not too late for him. The red pill doesn't go down easy. It's like taking all the pills of an animal pak at once.

[Grit]

My take:

Cute girls act conservative and Christian on the surface and are sluts behind the scene. That right there is pretty fucked up, unsustainable, and enough to throw this guy's legacy to the wind. You can argue that this guy is jaded by his conservative upbringing. Or you can acknowledge that girls casually violate every moral law in the book. Then go to church. And recieve the body of Christ in their mouth. That some dude just blew a load into. Get the picture?

Behavior like that is disrespectful at the very least, and at the worst grounds for termination with extreme prejudice. Moral extremism is black and white. Don't ask a Christian, ask a Muslim guy in Saudi Arabia. Parables like Sodom and Gomorrah exist for a reason.

[j r]

(11-26-2012 10:26 PM)Grit Wrote:  

My take:

Cute girls act conservative and Christian on the surface and are sluts behind the scene. That right there is pretty fucked up, unsustainable, and enough to throw this guy's legacy to the wind. You can argue that this guy is jaded by his conservative upbringing. Or you can acknowledge that girls casually violate every moral law in the book. Then go to church. And recieve the body of Christ in their mouth. That some dude just blew a load into. Get the picture?

Behavior like that is disrespectful at the very least, and at the worst grounds for termination with extreme prejudice. Moral extremism is black and white. Don't ask a Christian, ask a Muslim guy in Saudi Arabia. Parables like Sodom and Gomorrah exist for a reason.

I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying? We should try to turn America into Saudi? We should get on some Taliban shit and start stoning women who don't live up to some religious standard?

There are places like this in the world. I don't know why you would want to turn America into one.

[Excelsior]

(11-26-2012 04:02 PM)Craig Wrote:  

Athlone,

The only thing outdated is your constant use of the term.

No, that term clearly applies here.

Quote:

Writing lengthy responses doesn't add weight to your argument.

Nobody claimed they did, but good on you dealing with that strawman. Fight the good fight, bro.

Quote:

You're assuming the guy is weak when he might just be more committed to his principles than you.

No, he's a weakling. That's pretty obvious, both to myself and to the women he aimed to pursue. He has no spine, is easily manipulated by female action (they can toy with him with no effort because he doesn't have the emotional fortitude to stand absent their validation) and whines like a supercharger.

This is not a conclusion based upon an assumption. It is a conclusion based upon easily verifiable facts stated by the man in question. Having exhibited said weaknesses myself in the past, I don't find them difficult to spot.

He can either accept their existence and grow or continue to bitch and remain what he is. That the weaknesses are present, however, is not debatable.

Quote:

He stuck to them til 32 believing that goodness would pay off.

That it has taken him this long to adapt is worth noting, as it shows a remarkable degree of naivete.

Adaptation shouldn't take 12+ years to take off. If reality can punch you in the face for so long and you still fail to recognize its presence, then that says something (and that "something" isn't good).

Quote:

Now he's realizing that in a society full of people that think like you, it just isn't worth it. Let the savagery begin.

This brings me to another point about self-righteousness and arrogance. This guy, like yourself, is convinced that he's somehow morally better than everyone else around him. This is why, in spite of the continued administration of cold doses of reality over the course of a decade, the dude has stayed the course and refused to adapt or even address his own faults.

If he could hop off of his moral high horse for just a second and look over his own conduct with a critical eye, he could potentially find a way to deal with his own critical faults (ex: excessive pedestalization of women) and perhaps improve his results/experience, maybe learning from others in the process. Society may have still its faults, but he would at least be better capable of dealing with them.

This does not happen because he is too busy looking down on everyone else to consider his own insecurities and failings. Instead of considering what he himself is doing wrong and could do better, he chooses to criticize society, the girls, and the men they prefer to fuck instead of him.

It isn't that he's unattractive-the girls are just "impure".
It isn't that those guys they prefer to fuck are more attractive-they're actually "losers".
It isn't that his persona is too dull or unappealing-it is that society has it all wrong.

"There's nothing wrong with me, but everything else is just fucked up!"

That's the mentality you and this guy are advocating for in a nutshell. There can be no true self improvement with the continued maintenance of this mindset, and without true self improvement there can be no romantic improvement either.

Quote:

You see that? I was rude just now b/c I abandoned the principle of politeness. It doesn't make for a very civilized discussion does it?

Quote:

Abandoning ideals might be practical for you, but that doesn't mean it's right.

Sounds fine so long as you're willing to cease bitching and moaning about the consequences.

Quote:

Now, perhaps you're willing to say "there's no right or wrong in society."

...or perhaps I'm not?

Quote:

Well, at least you're striving for consistency.

Am I?

Quote:

But you can't live as though there is no right or wrong.

Ok...

Quote:

And if you can't live it, it's not practical.

If you say so, I guess...

Quote:

Therefore your argument collapses in on itself.

...except it isn't my argument?

Strawmen need battling too, I guess. Keep fighting the good fight.

Quote:

Update: In short, my argument is that women should strive to be more than chimps.

What you think they should do is irrelevant. You must accept female nature for what it is, not for your own personal opinion of what it ought to be.

Women do not find weak, spineless, easily manipulated men attractive. Bitching and moaning about how they ought to be more attracted to these men for reasons you have determined yourself is a waste of time and will not change anyone's mind.

The world has no obligation to adapt to you and your feelings. You either adapt to it or pay the price.

[king]

Even if the guy is religious, assuming that he is a christian the bible is full of advice about how to become alpha and the writers knew about the true nature of women, recently i read this series of blog posts which the forum readers might find interesting:

https://freenortherner.wordpress.com/biblical-alpha/

Notice that most of them are from old testament where God actually had balls and was much cooler than the one in the new testament where everything is about being meek, lovely and submissive.

Muslims take one step forward and actually take action to avoid any of the known problems associated with women's hypergamic impulse and as we know they repress them with many laws and restrictions. These actions are, arguably, not very civilized, but the point is that there are many hints on some religions about the nature of women.

[-abe-]

(11-26-2012 09:26 AM)jammer Wrote:  

The dude is a loser. Why is he so concerned about black guys? He is one of those guys. Insecure. I'm betting he thinks he is superior to those black guys who are getting laid and pissed off at his innocent white women daring to go with a black guy instead of a guy like him.

I would not be surprised if that post wasn't written by a lame blogger named
"Whiskey" who makes many of the same points through out dozens of whose comment sections he trolls. The point about black guys is telling, as that guy is something of a Heartiste type racist.

[-abe-]

Though I must say, the point about marrying a woman in her prime is quite good. Because that's what a woman's sacrifice when it comes to relationships is supposed to be. When they want to get married beyond 30+, they really aren't making as much of a sacrifice, and they would have given away their most precious span of prime years/beauty to other guys. Talk about a bad deal.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

While I will also gladly warn the guy in the original story that wanting to be Beta will destroy him, I will not criticize him for it, nor for having believed what he was told about the world and what really worked for many generations before him. Don't be too harsh. Him blaming women for not being attracted to his Beta-ness is NOT analogue to something unnatural, like women blaming men for not being sexually attracted to obesity, or other parallels that are being implicitly drawn here.

Let's compare male and female attraction criteria. Yes, the basic mechanism of attraction is the same. But men have always wanted young, thin, healthy women, and have remained constant in their desires since the dawn of human race. Women, on the other hand, started needing the extreme Alpha-ness (the so-called “high dominance threshold") only during the last few decades. Nowadays, women need Alpha qualities even more than in the prehistoric ages, because unlike that time, a woman’s survival and existence is no longer bound to anything tangible. She can afford to do anything ‘safely’ (in her mind), and her existence (or even feelings) will never be threatened, no matter how horrible are the choices that she makes. With those natural constraints on female behavior removed, we are now witnessing the explosion of Alpha criteria from women.

It’s female desires that have grown unnatural and ballooned out of proportion. I say adjust properly (what other choice do you have?), but never forget that fact. The guy would certainly be at fault if he didn't change after finding out, but I don't blame him for either taking so long to realize the truth or for being nostalgic about what he believed in.

Legitimate criticism against whatever is forcing you to adapt is not at odds with adapting.

[Ternarydemonite]

He has almost reached red pill by himself. He just needs an epiphany and he will understand what he needs to do. Learn Game and adapt. Go out with the 30s skunks which rejected him in his 20s. Lie to them on promises of marriage. Fuck them. Dump them. At the same time, start to look for the current crop of 20s skunks. Game them. Hopefully, fuck them. Repeat until 40.

Then, while continuing to game all available women, perhaps marry: a young (under 24) woman from eastern europe or latin america; or a young (under 24) christian woman from his birth community. If not, enjoy his money while continuing to game all available women.

[Glock]

Like virtually everything else on Reddit, this appears to be false. He says he netted $120,000 at a time when he was spending $6,000 per month on rent and about $900 a month on "organic" and other food alone. He also says he drives a luxury car.

That math doesn't add up. His is rent alone is $72,000 per year. He simply doesn't have enough money -- even with $120,000 net income -- to have a luxury car, "organic" diet, and all the rest.

If we can't trust his numbers, we can't trust anything he says.

You could make a fair amount more than this guy and still have a tough time making ends meet if you were spending $6,000 per month on housing. That's a big chunk of change.

[pheonix500000]

(11-29-2013 12:16 PM)Consul Wrote:  

Like virtually everything else on Reddit, this appears to be false. He says he grossed $120,000 at a time when he was spending $6,000 per month on rent and about $900 a month on "organic" and other food alone. He also says he drives a luxury car.

That math doesn't add up. After taxes, he's probably at or below $100,000. His rent alone is $72,000 per year, which leaves him with $28,000 to pay for his luxury car, his "organic" diet, etc. I just don't believe this is plausible.

If we can't trust his numbers, we can't trust anything he says.

I was looking at that too but lets be real here true or not that are a shitload of guys who are like that.

[Ziltoid]

If I had the money this guy does, I would expatriate to Poland tomorrow and never look back.

[Glock]

(11-29-2013 12:36 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

If I had the money this guy does, I would expatriate to Poland tomorrow and never look back.

If he moves to Poland, he'd have to quit his job and then he would not have his money any more.

[KorbenDallas]

I have a similar background, but I was able to wake up and adapt at 19. Do guys like this just not have a since of adventure?

When I want to be, I can be good with American girls. It takes a lot out of me though. To be good with American girls you have to drink a lot and pretty much be a total asshole. Act like your waay better than them for no reason. You have to do this to get young pussy, or else be super famous or super rich or get extremely lucky and find a needle in a haystack. This reality is not sustainable, obv, but Athlone drops a lot of good wisdom. The world doesn't owe you anything. Also, acting like this can hurt your earning potential and life prospects. So, these girls selecting for these qualities really are tearing American society apart. Still, he's gotta rise above it. Last time I checked no one forces you to get married...

I want to have a family, but I'm smart enough not to be worried about finding a wife till I'm over thirty. (I'm young 20's) When I do pick one to settle down with she'll be 21 or younger. It's not hard to decide these things...He's so bothered by these American girls and its annoying. He's 32, he should be going through this way younger.

[pheonix500000]

(11-29-2013 12:43 PM)Consul Wrote:  

(11-29-2013 12:36 PM)Ziltoid Wrote:  

If I had the money this guy does, I would expatriate to Poland tomorrow and never look back.

If he moves to Poland, he'd have to quit his job and then he would not have his money any more.

Downgrade his lifestyle and save. 72 grand a year apartment thats 3 years of freedom in different countries.

[The Beast1]

I don't particularly worry about the plight of this guy.

Hypergamy is a product of affluence. In a time of plenty, you have to have the attitude of "plenty" and not be afraid to whip it around.

The pendulum is swinging backwards gentlemen. I look at most women and I laugh; The next major recession is coming soon and most of the women employed are in make work positions that will disintegrate very fast. It's happening already. Just wait until the end of January for the real fun to begin.

When college becomes unaffordable to the masses, we will see a different type of world emerge.

Quote:

The way I see it I’ve been given the following choices:

1)Marry a 30+ women.
2)Marry a women in her twenties
3)Be single and enjoy my money.

The fact he came to these conclusions means he is waking up. Guys like this will discover communities of guys like us. I believe Tuthmosis said it in another thread, most of the guys on here are well educated and gainfully employed. The only thing left for this pile of gasoline is the spark known as being social. Once they get that, we will begin to see a different type of world emerge.

[Ensam]

(11-29-2013 12:16 PM)Consul Wrote:  

Like virtually everything else on Reddit, this appears to be false. He says he netted $120,000 at a time when he was spending $6,000 per month on rent and about $900 a month on "organic" and other food alone. He also says he drives a luxury car.

That math doesn't add up. His is rent alone is $72,000 per year. He simply doesn't have enough money -- even with $120,000 net income -- to have a luxury car, "organic" diet, and all the rest.

If we can't trust his numbers, we can't trust anything he says.

You could make a fair amount more than this guy and still have a tough time making ends meet if you were spending $6,000 per month on housing. That's a big chunk of change.

Yeah, I make close to what that guy claims and there's no way I could afford a $6k/month apartment. I pay about $2k and feel the pinch. Though my food bill is about $900/month but I don't drive a luxury car.

[Sawyer]

Back to the race issue.

It's possible this guy is black. He said the girls "even screwed black guys" meaning race wasn't the factor they weren't screwing him.

[Peregrine]

For the record, topic post originated as a comment on a Dalrock blog post. It's linked on TRP subreddit's right sidebar as "Michael's story".

http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2012/11/24/...ment-62160

[Tytalus]

Man, I feel so lucky that the beautiful girl I pedastalized who turned out to be slut -- happened when I was 15. It was a brutal blow but even in my blue pill days made me a lot more aware.

But the religious thing and wanting to get married, avoiding the promiscuity... I totally did that. I did marry a woman who hadn't been with another man... But had had a lesbo experience. (She was honest.)

Anyways. Back to when I was a teen and young man I kept getting told that I was a great catch by older women... A bad sign if there ever was one. They were just operating in a different mentality. I kept knowing something was wrong, I was doing something wrong, things weren't working... So much of it was also related to how I got brought up and the oddly unique circumstances I grew in.

What happened to me was that I just gave up. I figured I'd be celibate, then hit up a site for getting hitched and "got lucky." No game on my part, wish I had known about it now. I would have gotten married anyway... But I would have done it better. And maybe made better life choices.

Side note:

One of the ways I introduce the red pill to guys off the street is to say things like, "Have you ever wondered what those 'bad boys' were doing right? Because logically, if they were truly unattractive, women wouldn't date them, correct?"

I always get this half befuddled, "Yeah, you know, I always have wondered!!" Most average guys who aren't snorting the blue pill do know that there's something they could be doing better... It's just that no one is telling them how.

[samsamsam]

(11-29-2013 12:16 PM)Consul Wrote:  

Like virtually everything else on Reddit, this appears to be false. He says he netted $120,000 at a time when he was spending $6,000 per month on rent and about $900 a month on "organic" and other food alone. He also says he drives a luxury car.

That math doesn't add up. His is rent alone is $72,000 per year. He simply doesn't have enough money -- even with $120,000 net income -- to have a luxury car, "organic" diet, and all the rest.

If we can't trust his numbers, we can't trust anything he says.

You could make a fair amount more than this guy and still have a tough time making ends meet if you were spending $6,000 per month on housing. That's a big chunk of change.

I think he mentions he nets that after creative writeoffs. And that he works from home - so maybe he writes off his rent and therefore it is not in the next take home.

Quote:

My income was $120,000.00 (net earnings after creative deductions and business taxes) in 2011. I work from home because an office would cost at least another $2,000.00 month.

Regardless, I think someone mentioned something about a parable and how it is educational. I found this post by this guy, not necessarily educational but reinforcing what I know and have learned from being on this forum. Over the months RVF has definitely hammered these thoughts into my head. However, if someone was new to the forum, this would be a great first read.

One in a series of reality check posts that if someone read they would get up to speed quickly.