[CMan0928]

My buddy and I were having a discussion today about performance enhancing drugs in professional sports. Whether it be Baseball, Football, or even Cycling. Not sure if any of you are privy to the recent (well somewhat recent) information that has come to light regarding the US Postal Cycling Team and the run they went on starting in 1999. Namely, of course, Lance Armstrong. Some of the more recent reports by some former teammates of his are pretty insane. Things such as blood bags being brought to the Tour de France in the bottom of a portable dog kennel so the riders could reinject themselves with fresh blood which had previously been spiked with Erythropoietin, which is more commonly referred to as EPO (a drug which increases red blood cells in the blood and increases oxygen delivery to muscles, thus improving stamina) which turned out to be a critical part of Armstrong and the Postal Team winning 7 consecutive TDF's (since expunged from the record books because of the admission of PED use by so many members of the team). They even faked a breakdown of the team bus once so the cyclists could inject themselves with fresh EPO infused blood right before a certain stage of the race. Pretty crazy, right? Even crazier is that had a few people honored the code and kept their mouths shut, this info may have never leaked out. Lance beat advanced Testicular Cancer and has always appeared to be relentless in his approach towards physical conditioning and his commitment to winning. It's been said that during the years in question nearly 90% of the Tour was doping in one form or another. So, my question is, if everyone is doing it and you stand no chance unless you also begin taking PED's (to maintain your status as a member of Postal you actually had to keep your red blood cell count at a particular level through injections of EPO), does it change things in terms of fairness or the perception of it really being cheating?

As a side note, the winner of the last Tour de France would have finished roughly 40th during Armstrong's heyday.

[germanico]

I wonder how much more interesting would sports be if athletes were given free rein to do as they wished. How many would remain clean? and of those who did, how many would remain competitive?

[CMan0928]

(11-23-2012 11:49 PM)germanico Wrote:  

I wonder how much more interesting would sports be if athletes were given free rein to do as they wished. How many would remain clean? and of those who did, how many would remain competitive?

People will argue about things like integrity for the sport or being honest as an individual. But really what it comes down to is if 90% of their competitors are already cheating, then why wouldn't Postal want to do the same? Lance told one of his teammates in 1998 "We're getting killed out there because of the dopers. We gotta do something about it." So maybe both Cycling and the FBI should investigate the people who were responsible for making sure it's sports athletes were clean in the first place. Instead they would rather ban and indite someone because they felt they had to cheat to have a fair shot from the get go. I feel the guys pain. Evolve or die I say. Baseball is still in a similar situation. If using steroids or HGH for an average player gets them an everyday job, and when the time comes, a huge pay increase, then why wouldn't they do it? Taking performance enhancers doesn't guarantee you any kind of results. If every MLB player today was given the green light to go ahead and use whatever they wanted, how many of them would eclipse, say, the 70 HR mark next season? I bet none. It's luck, most importantly talent, with a slight edge provided by the PED's.

[Kid Strangelove]

Check out the Joe Rogan podcast where he interviews Victor Conte, the president of BALCO - he talks about doping in great detail

[Katatonic]

(11-24-2012 01:31 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Check out the Joe Rogan podcast where he interviews Victor Conte, the president of BALCO - he talks about doping in great detail

Anyone who is interested in PED's in sports must listen to that podcast. When he explained MLB's testing policy, and that of other athletic commissions, I was astounded. I'm convinced MLB really doesn't want to catch juicers, and am actually happy with that.

[CMan0928]

(11-24-2012 01:31 PM)Kid Strangelove Wrote:  

Check out the Joe Rogan podcast where he interviews Victor Conte, the president of BALCO - he talks about doping in great detail

I've actually listened to The Joe Rogan Show before. It's good stuff. I'll check the episode with Victor Conte out. I'm already familiar with him from reading "Game of Shadows" a few years ago. Great book.

[Timoteo]

I would never endorse doping, but I will say this. Many believe that dopers are taking a short-cut. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dopers work as hard, or even harder than guys that are clean. They simply get greater gains from that work. Guys that take 'roids actually lift and work HARDER, because the juice allows you to work harder and recover more quickly, allowing you to continue to work even more. Lance Armstrong trained as hard or harder than his competitors, and because of that he beat other dopers. For doping to help you, you have to be pretty good at what you do in the first place. PEDs aren't magic - for them to benefit you, you have to put in the work.

[CMan0928]

(11-24-2012 02:19 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

I would never endorse doping, but I will say this. Many believe that dopers are taking a short-cut. Nothing could be further from the truth. Dopers work as hard, or even harder than guys that are clean. They simply get greater gains from that work. Guys that take 'roids actually lift and work HARDER, because the juice allows you to work harder and recover more quickly, allowing you to continue to work even more. Lance Armstrong trained as hard or harder than his competitors, and because of that he beat other dopers. For doping to help you, you have to be pretty good at what you do in the first place. PEDs aren't magic - for them to benefit you, you have to put in the work.

You guys should check out the recent podcast NPR had on Planet Money about Lance and the US Postal Team (Episode #417). It's only about 20 minutes long. But it's fantastic. The lengths they went to to beat the system are insane. And I mean that in a good way. They truly had to get creative to make it work.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/

[MrXY]

Enhancement of human capabilities, first through drugs, then soon through genetic therapy and engineering , are the future of the human race.

The effect on sports will be just a footnote compared to the revolutionary effects these technologies are going to have on society

[Teedub]

(11-24-2012 02:28 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

Enhancement of human capabilities, first through drugs, then soon through genetic therapy and engineering , are the future of the human race.

The effect on sports will be just a footnote compared to the revolutionary effects these technologies are going to have on society

Yep. I think you're right. People will oppose it as it is basically eugenics, but we're certainly heading in that direction.

[Caligula]

I like to call the entertainment enhancing drugs.