[ElJefe]

So I've got a simple plan for securing my financial happiness. After blowing stupid amounts of money (for a young guy) I've now settled on a plan to pay off a mortgage, student loans and start accumulating assets, and I've been thinking about milestones.

Do you other guys have milestones - if yes, what?

Do you have specific steps you take to determine useful milestones?

What do you "invest" in, besides securities, to accelerate your asset accumulation?

Or do you just emphasize happiness in the moment, and are more interested in increasing income than accruing assets?

[RichieP]

I'm another guy who blew stupid amounts of money in my 20's and is beginning to turn the ship around.

Currently I'm focussing on getting my cash inflow = outflow, while staying location independent.

Assets are definitely important, but there's all sorts of intangible assets too. Transferrable skills are a kind of intangible asset - if you build "business chops" by building a business from scratch, you've necessarily built sales, marketing, value-delivery and system-improvement skills that will transfer greatly to whatever market, industry or job you go into next.

The book "Education of Millionaires" explains this concept well. Capital is an asset, but so is Human Capital (i.e. skills). A consultant who can charge $250 an hour with a long half-life skillset (and even better, location independently) has great opportunity to generate wealth relatively quickly.

And the level beyond that is Connection Capital - i.e. the ability to translate your connections with other people into Capital and opportunity for yourself.

Currently I'm in Thailand with rapidly diminishing funds. But what separates me from the Burmese construction workers on the street who I walk by every day? Skill Capital, yes - I have many more skills + education - but also Connection Capital. If I run out of cash, within a few phonecalls I could likely call in a couple of thousand dollars in loans (more than they make in a year). I could almost certainly hustle a flight home to Europe, and at a real push, I could get myself set up with some OK-paying work or office job in 2-4 weeks, just through the people I know, likely in more than one country. That's more $$ in a couple of weeks than the Burmese guy makes in a year, and more opportunity than he has in a lifetime.

I know guys who with a couple of phonecalls can be having dinner with some serious heavy hitters -politicians, CEOs, successful entrepreneurs, in any of a dozen+ countries. That's what really separates the rich from the poor I think. Connection Capital. They've built that not so much through their skillset, but really through just deliberately intending to connect with these people through intelligent and very social-value-giving networking.

So to answer your Milestones Q, at the moment personally I'm looking to just hammer freelancing and business and get better and better at those skillsets, and better at budgeting, saving (i.e. the crucial skills I need to improve on... my Human Capital). In addition, at some point I really want to strengthen my network and make more solid connections with other entrepreneurs and trailblazers. Even though I'm a natural introvert and I struggle with it, it's logically the ultimate asset IMO.

[garygroundwork]

being smart with money when u r young is key...wish i was. only started learning and doing it now over mid 30's

[Neo]

RichieP is right on the money with his description of skill capital and connection capital.

Companies/clients hire people who can solve problems for them.

Years ago it was enough to get a four year degree and get a job for life. This is no longer case, the people who I see remain competitive are those who have multiple skillsets.

Once most people get comfortable they just cruise through their jobs and never bother to keep tabs on industry trends. A major shift happens and they get cut, and what do you have? A person with an expired skillset.

The great thing is with dedication and practice we can learn almost anything. I'd say 3 years of daily dedication at 30 mins to an 1 hour a day will make most people proficient in many subjects.

Let's say we have two guys. Guy A just has a 4 year degree. Guy B has a 4 year degree, is fluent in 3 languages, is proficient in a few programming languages, and he used to work in his dads auto shop as a teenager so he has a good knowledge about cars.

Unless Guy B is a lazy as hell there is no way he can't be making money.

The real crux of the problem is that in America, our teachers and professors made us believe that just by going to college we'd be ok. Yet for centuries men have been learning trades and building their skills to make a living.

While life is too short to be an expert at everything, it's completely reasonable to pick 4-5 things you have a passion for and become an expert at them. It might take years, but not only do they add to your marketable/business skills it also gives you a sense of being more of a man.

While a lot the kids in my age bracket are watching TV, playing video games, and pounding a 6 pack of beer every night, I'm reading books and learning skills(with some bangs thrown in of course)

[ElJefe]

OK, so it sounds like one should invest a great deal in one's own "human capital", honing skills, but also habits. Like Aristotle said, excellence is a habit. Make a habit or solid, solid performance.

Another topic was "social" capital. I know of at least one board member who doesn't have to look for work because he's getting head-hunted.

Having a solid network is worth investing in, so how do you recommend going about that?

[Way Cool Jr]

Guys,
I'm now finishing my studies and I'll enter into the corporate world soon.
I would like to know, if you don't mind, to have some informations about the mistakes that you think you made with your money in your past.
I think it will be useful for a lot of posters to know it since they can avoid the same actions or recognize wrong behavihours that they are making.
As soon as I will have more time I'll write you my points for saving and accumulate net wealth.
So the question is: What mistakes did you attribute to your spendings?

[bojangles]

i fucked up during studying, taking out loans and credit cards, and now i am finally 7 years later getting out of that situation. I've already got plans to accumulate some savings fast for 6 months and take some time off to travel.

[RichieP]

(11-20-2012 07:22 AM)Way Cool Jr Wrote:  

Guys,
I'm now finishing my studies and I'll enter into the corporate world soon.
I would like to know, if you don't mind, to have some informations about the mistakes that you think you made with your money in your past.
I think it will be useful for a lot of posters to know it since they can avoid the same actions or recognize wrong behavihours that they are making.
As soon as I will have more time I'll write you my points for saving and accumulate net wealth.
So the question is: What mistakes did you attribute to your spendings?

Great Q. Don't want to hijack OPS thread, so I hope he doesnt mind me chiming in here; but I've got alot of thoughts on what my mistakes were.

For me it was:

-Either not budgeting atall, or budgeting too strictly that it stressed me out so much, I'd say fuck it and go back to not tracking or budgeting. A splurge/panic-and-strictly-budget/splurge cycle.

-Spending beyond my means and wishfully pinning hopes on some future income, without having a concrete plan in place for how I was going to create that. "It's OK to spend now... I'll be making more soon". My "plan" was some vague idea about online business. Only now do I really have some concrete steps for getting that to the point I can survive on it + save. I SHOULD have been thinking "OK. How can I conserve what I have, and take concrete steps to generate X income in Y weeks/months?" Instead my thoughts were like "Ahh well I'll figure it out. I'll be earning well sooner or later, no I can just feel it. Now... another buffet / expensive night out please!!!"

It's good to have faith and optimistic, but you ALSO have to be realistic and in touch with reality - be very aware of the inflows and outflows, and if outflows are greater, take concrete steps to recorrect.

-Absolutely blowing obnoxious amounts on short trips. Getting carried away with partying in expensive locations. Bottle service in Vegas is fun, but is it really worth $500 a night? multiple times per trip? Not when that would equal months of travel in Asia or S. America, no.

-Too much of an "inner game" focus without external action. Reading too much psychology. "Money is all emotional. I just need to get my head sorted out, I'll become more sensible and making money..." It's true emotion is a huge component. But so are the mechanical external systems of how your cash flows in and out. I neglected the pure mechanics of it too much, waiting till some mythical day in the future when I was "fixed" and would magically manage my money perfectly.


So in summary:

-Splurge/strict-budget/splurge pattern of spending.
-Wishfully pinning hopes on vague future income, without actually taking steps to make it happen.
-Not processing the long-term value of money. I cringe at what I spent on some trips, it was an obnoxious amount.
-Rationalising that I'd fix my money attitude/psychology, instead of fixing + improving the cold hard external systems in my life.

[SelfPaid]

@Richie P: I think you have some great Points there.

I wasted a bit of Money in my teens and 20's as well, but more on things that didn't work a failed business,people,education etc.

I am still in my 22 so I don't know everything but what I do know when it comes to Assets is that:

1.You are you're greatest Asset (You need to take care of you're self

2.Don't Invest in thinks that don't give a Return from day one.( I don't Invest fore Capital Gain just fore Casflow) People might disagree with that, but I choose to not wait 7 Years before an Investments makes Money.

3.Be willing to Invest into People who know what they are doing.
(Entrepreneurs, Money Managers, Traders, Lawyers etc)

4.Don't get into debt no matter What( I know there is so called good debt but you're still have a Risk if things go wrong so I choose to Invest Cash only, Cash I can afford to loose)

5.)Don't listen to People who are not succesfuly doing what you're doing ore are not Succesful Investors themself.

6.) Develop you're own System ( Alot of People are looking to copy and there is nothing wrong with that, it's just easier and more productive to do what works for you best)

That's what I do it's always a Smart Idea to use other peoples Time but using Other Peoples Money is to risky. You don't really need to if you are good with Money you're self.

Hope that helps.

PS: My Biggest Mistake was working on things that didn't produce the results I wanted. And not beeing open to other oppertunites.

[SelfPaid]

I just realized my Post was a bit of Topic:

To Accumulate Net Assets, which are in my case Positive Casflow Real Estates. 15 % Per Anum minimum.
I make Sure I do the following things.

Stay completely debt free and everything I make is getting re invested.

Strictly separate Lifestyle and Investing which means I don't spend much Money and try to live a fulfilled live on less.
Moving to Brazil where the cost is lower than Germany and I can relax and Focus much better than in Germany do to the stress free attitude Weather ect.

I Invest into the Skills of other People: I am a Trader myself but I know an excellent Forex Trader and his company is managing some of my Money. The Good thing about that is that I am Liquid.

I make sure to look outside of Europe for oppertunities( Currently America,Australia and Nigeria)

I invest my Profits back into myself, Education, Connections and than the Assets which have to make me Money from Day 1 If I buy a house there should be already a renter in it paying rent every month.

That's how I do it.

[ElJefe]

SelfPaid, I'm putting you on hidden.

[Tigre]

Milestones

Step 1 (baby steps): You get your first part-time job as a kid. There is something small you want. You don't need to ask your parents for it - you hand over your cash and buy it.

Step 2: You learn a skill and get your first job that's not grunt work. You like the feeling of climbing higher up the employment food chain and getting a better monetary return on your time.

Step 3: You move out from the parental home. Got your own place now. Bought your own furniture. You're no longer looking for crumbs from someone else's table. You put food on your own table.

Step 4: You acquire capital for the first time. Capitalism as a system starts to work harder for you once you actually have capital. You receive a dividend or capital appreciation. You enjoy the earned income that you didn't have to labor for.

Step 5: Your assets grew over time, and now earn you a good income on their own. You reach replenishment rate, where your passive income pays for your lifestyle without needing to work for a paycheck.

Step ?: At some point would come a stage where you have kids. You provide for them and are able to give them pretty much everything you think they need. This step depends on the individual as to when it happens. It could come anywhere along the above timeline.

On the way to Step 5 (replenishment), your can set your own goals and milestones along the way. A simple way to do this is a personal balance sheet. List every asset and debt you own in an Excel spreadsheet, along with its value. Sum the pluses and minuses into a grand total at the bottom of sheet - that's your net worth. You should be trying to grow this over time.

[WestCoast]

Do you other guys have milestones - if yes, what?

Sure, the only major milestone I'm willing to share is "fuck you money". This is effectively money where you can work any job you want, ie: your interest payments cover rent, food, water, and a $150 for leisure.

If you get here you can do any job, grocery store, gym coach, teacher. Doesn't matter because all that money made in your fun job goes straight to partying and sex. Ideal to combine.

Do you have specific steps you take to determine useful milestones?

Yes. The trick is time is difficult to measure. When you're 20-40 is prime to pull girls, however at 40+ you need cash to continue to pull girls. So... To each his own. Run one annual savings number you want and continue to try and bring your cost per notch down.

What do you "invest" in, besides securities, to accelerate your asset accumulation?

Invest in yourself. No don't go and buy a bunch of courses in xyz that won't yield returns, don't get a degree you don't need. For you maybe go to the libabry and learn how to fix your house up by yourself. That could yield $50K for you down be line, for free. You learn and you get to work out and you save + make money. Win win.

Or do you just emphasize happiness in the moment, and are more interested in increasing income than accruing assets?

Balance. Again time is short, you get a few girls on rotation and have life hobby goals. Then you focus on saving cash. Assuming a few girls drop off... Get back to searching spend a little more cash, then pull it back in again. Nothing is perfectly straight, you'd go crazy trying to save every penny every monh, you'd also go nuts burning through your liver 4x a week. This is the model I'm running.

Everything you obtain in life you gave up something to get. Women, health, money, leisure etc. So try to combine. The guy unwilling to party with his buddies once in a while is just as unhappy as the guy partying everyday for 10 years straight. Guy 1 loses sex, guy 2 loses many years of his life and doesn't realize it till he's in a wheel chair or has aged rapidly.

Look young as long as possible and make medium steps toward financial fuck you money.

[Neo]

(11-20-2012 07:20 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

OK, so it sounds like one should invest a great deal in one's own "human capital", honing skills, but also habits. Like Aristotle said, excellence is a habit. Make a habit or solid, solid performance.

Another topic was "social" capital. I know of at least one board member who doesn't have to look for work because he's getting head-hunted.

Having a solid network is worth investing in, so how do you recommend going about that?

I'm not an expert at this, but I've done some things myself and have further ideas that I can share.

First, in line with the human capital angle is becoming competent in your field and building a solid reputation. Whatever field you're in or if you're self employed having a solid reputation is key. The other side of this coin is having excellent people and social skills.

While both these things seem (are) obvious you'd be surprised at how many people lack one or the other.

The principle I use in networking is 'like attracts like.' I've gone to networking events where there were a bunch of people in suits in the room that I didn't know. Don't get me wrong, this type of approach is valuable and works to expand your contacts. But what I've found is that many of us have successful people much closer to home, all we need to do is ask.

Maybe your sisters friend has a multimillion dollar business. Maybe your good friend's dad is a big wig attorney, or maybe a guy from your parents home town is a semi-famous fashion designer.

Believe it or not, that's true for me.

My point is, when it comes to building a network look close to home to people you know who already trust you. I don't have much in common with the guys I listed above, but I've sat down with one of them just to talk about life and business. If I didn't have an in, I probably would have never gotten the opportunity. While I'm not even close to maximizing my contacts and people that I know, I'm always looking for opportunities to talk to successful people who have achieved what I want to achieve.

A lot of it boils down to being a social likeable person and not burning bridges. One of my ex girlfriends from a while back is an ivy league attorney, the relationship went sour, but we're still good friends. While many dudes would have never talked to her again cause they weren't getting ass, I'm still on good terms. I provide value and she does the same.

That's the bottom line about networking, providing and giving value.

[SelfPaid]

(11-20-2012 09:47 PM)Neo Wrote:  

(11-20-2012 07:20 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

OK, so it sounds like one should invest a great deal in one's own "human capital", honing skills, but also habits. Like Aristotle said, excellence is a habit. Make a habit or solid, solid performance.

Another topic was "social" capital. I know of at least one board member who doesn't have to look for work because he's getting head-hunted.

Having a solid network is worth investing in, so how do you recommend going about that?

I'm not an expert at this, but I've done some things myself and have further ideas that I can share.

First, in line with the human capital angle is becoming competent in your field and building a solid reputation. Whatever field you're in or if you're self employed having a solid reputation is key. The other side of this coin is having excellent people and social skills.

While both these things seem (are) obvious you'd be surprised at how many people lack one or the other.

The principle I use in networking is 'like attracts like.' I've gone to networking events where there were a bunch of people in suits in the room that I didn't know. Don't get me wrong, this type of approach is valuable and works to expand your contacts. But what I've found is that many of us have successful people much closer to home, all we need to do is ask.

Maybe your sisters friend has a multimillion dollar business. Maybe your good friend's dad is a big wig attorney, or maybe a guy from your parents home town is a semi-famous fashion designer.

Believe it or not, that's true for me.

My point is, when it comes to building a network look close to home to people you know who already trust you. I don't have much in common with the guys I listed above, but I've sat down with one of them just to talk about life and business. If I didn't have an in, I probably would have never gotten the opportunity. While I'm not even close to maximizing my contacts and people that I know, I'm always looking for opportunities to talk to successful people who have achieved what I want to achieve.

A lot of it boils down to being a social likeable person and not burning bridges. One of my ex girlfriends from a while back is an ivy league attorney, the relationship went sour, but we're still good friends. While many dudes would have never talked to her again cause they weren't getting ass, I'm still on good terms. I provide value and she does the same.

That's the bottom line about networking, providing and giving value.

Great Advice, sometimes People don't realize that the Someone arround them is doing something succesfully

[scotian]

Great topic, as for me, after finally paying off all of my student loans and becoming completely debt free four years ago I started to save my money, lots of it.

It got to the point where I literally had so much money that I didn't know what to do with it all so I decided to buy a condo because after a couple of consultations with banking reps about mutual funds and stocks, I decided I'd be more comfortable putting my hard earned money into something that I can actually live in. I've been dumping a fair amount onto my mortgage and am optimistic that the condo's value will increase over the next fours year when I intend to sell it, its currently rented and I'm essentially homeless.

The best decision I ever made, both financially and lifestyle wise was to take a trade and begin working in the oil industry. I'm able to make decent amounts of money in short periods of time and then stop working and take long periods of time off, which I'm currently doing with a 3-4 month trip to SE Asia.

I'd like to diversify my skill set and gain international work experience, which I intend to do by studying online (improve my computer literacy and math skills) and going to work in the energy sector in Australia for 6-12 months in the 2013.

I'm 30 now and made some bad decisions in my 20s, such as wasting almost 5 years at uni for a useless BA and partying way too much. I honestly didn't enjoy my 20s that much, especially the early years. Things are going well now after a lot of hard work and sacrifice and I'm really looking forward to my 30s.

[Scarecr0w]

(11-20-2012 09:16 AM)SelfPaid Wrote:  

I just realized my Post was a bit of Topic:

To Accumulate Net Assets, which are in my case Positive Casflow Real Estates. 15 % Per Anum minimum.
I make Sure I do the following things.

Stay completely debt free and everything I make is getting re invested.

Strictly separate Lifestyle and Investing which means I don't spend much Money and try to live a fulfilled live on less.
Moving to Brazil where the cost is lower than Germany and I can relax and Focus much better than in Germany do to the stress free attitude Weather ect.

I Invest into the Skills of other People: I am a Trader myself but I know an excellent Forex Trader and his company is managing some of my Money. The Good thing about that is that I am Liquid.

I make sure to look outside of Europe for oppertunities( Currently America,Australia and Nigeria)

I invest my Profits back into myself, Education, Connections and than the Assets which have to make me Money from Day 1 If I buy a house there should be already a renter in it paying rent every month.

That's how I do it.

heh, are you sure brazil is cheaper than germany????????????
i dont think so..

[RichieP]

(11-21-2012 06:55 AM)scotian Wrote:  

Great topic, as for me, after finally paying off all of my student loans and becoming completely debt free four years ago I started to save my money, lots of it.

It got to the point where I literally had so much money that I didn't know what to do with it all so I decided to buy a condo because after a couple of consultations with banking reps about mutual funds and stocks, I decided I'd be more comfortable putting my hard earned money into something that I can actually live in. I've been dumping a fair amount onto my mortgage and am optimistic that the condo's value will increase over the next fours year when I intend to sell it, its currently rented and I'm essentially homeless.

The best decision I ever made, both financially and lifestyle wise was to take a trade and begin working in the oil industry. I'm able to make decent amounts of money in short periods of time and then stop working and take long periods of time off, which I'm currently doing with a 3-4 month trip to SE Asia.

I'd like to diversify my skill set and gain international work experience, which I intend to do by studying online (improve my computer literacy and math skills) and going to work in the energy sector in Australia for 6-12 months in the 2013.

I'm 30 now and made some bad decisions in my 20s, such as wasting almost 5 years at uni for a useless BA and partying way too much. I honestly didn't enjoy my 20s that much, especially the early years. Things are going well now after a lot of hard work and sacrifice and I'm really looking forward to my 30s.

Really cool man. Can you talk a little bit about how your mindset changed? Was there a point where you stopped living for the moment and started pulling things together for your future? And what stopped you from blowing all that excess cash you worked for on crap/partying?

Thanks mate.

[scotian]

Well, I grew up in small fishing village in the economic arm pit of Canada (Maritimes) where unemployment is high and mooching off the government is a way of life. I knew from a young age that I didn't want to live like that, pay cheque to pay cheque because I saw how miserable it made people and in my teens I said to myself that I'd do whatever it takes not to.

So I went to uni for my degree like everyone else and even had a coveted government job (the best kind of job to an east coaster), sitting in an office all day wasn't my thing and they pay wasn't great either so I decided to move out west to Alberta in 2006 to join some of my buddies who had done the same.

This was a game changer as I saw that all these meat head guys who we made fun of for taking trades instead of going to uni all had tons of money: houses, trucks, partying, etc. All I had was a useless BA and wasn't qualified to do anything so I eventually decided to go to community college and took a trade, best decision ever.

I got a high paying job right out of school and have been busy since (even during the economic shit storm of 08/09'). My first goal was to pay off the loans I had, about 25K and that didn't take long, then I started working in these work camps in northern Alberta where you literally don't spend any money and the wages are quite high (usually 3-4K per week clear).

I've always been frugal, thanks to my cheap skate dad and experience as being a broke ass student so I try not to spend too much money on frivolous things. I busted my ass really hard for over two years straight in those work camps and saved as much as I could, now I don't have to work all year round. Basically, I'll go up there for say 5 months between April and November (I'll never work there in the winter again, too cold) on a 24/4 rotation and save 45-60K cash, then quit my job (no big deal, they always welcome me back) and do whatever the fuck I want.

As far as the partying goes, I still do it but have calmed down quite a bit. I've been hard at it for about 15 years, binge drinking every weekend, smoking and altering reality in other ways, if you know what I mean.

I turned 30 last month and decided to give it up for a bit, the boozing, drugging, chasing women and working so hard has taken its toll and I don't want to end up like so many guys at work who are 40 yet look as if they're 50. I'm trying to live a healthier lifestyle here in Thailand, we'll see how it goes, as you know, there's a lot of temptation here!

One last thing, its forums like this and the people that I meet travelling who really blow my mind and inspire me to make lifestyle changes. Between growing up in the Maritimes and working in a trade environment in northern Alberta, I've been surrounded by mostly jibronies who live in a box which includes shitty health decisions, mass consumerism and being a narrow minded meat head. Its so refreshing to meet and communicate with creative people who think outside the box.

[ElJefe]

Thanks, Scotian, for sharing that. Terrific stuff. I have something I’d like to add, then a question:

Corollary: the lesson is not that university is a waste of time and money all the time, although it often is. Go to college to learn and spar with greater minds, the professors. Go to make your mind an interesting place to live.

Now, would you recommend going the trade route for someone with a graduate degree in Economics? The idea of seeking out the places flush with money is banal, but obviously necessary to point out. What’s also obvious is that a trade is a very concrete way to ensure you can create value from scratch. That’s somewhat harder if you’ve got a degree designed for number crunching, modeling and analysis. Would you drop that and still go the trade route?

[WestCoast]

ElJefe

Not sure exactly what you do for work but I've seen both routes done.

A colleague of mine couldn't get the promote, dropped out of the race, picked up a job as an x-ray tech after getting certified and lives a more modest life but still clears ~80K a year. Granted he saved some cash not a multi millionaire but I would guess around 150K.

The best balance as many posters here have said, at least the ones I agree with, build up a strong career and try to stash cash aggressively through until 28-32 range. At this point your body catches up and cranking out 60-80 hour weeks is not longer healthy. The Reason this is recommended is because this is a players forum. If you go until late 30's with no game at all grinding 24/7... You're in a huge uphill battle, lifestyle likely gets pricey and your social skills diminish. At 22-32 you can grind and learn game because you have the energy.

Most ambitious people, guessing you are one yourself, need to balance chasing $$ and chasing girls. Always a balance.

[scotian]

(11-22-2012 08:33 AM)ElJefe Wrote:  

Thanks, Scotian, for sharing that. Terrific stuff. I have something I’d like to add, then a question:

Corollary: the lesson is not that university is a waste of time and money all the time, although it often is. Go to college to learn and spar with greater minds, the professors. Go to make your mind an interesting place to live.

Now, would you recommend going the trade route for someone with a graduate degree in Economics? The idea of seeking out the places flush with money is banal, but obviously necessary to point out. What’s also obvious is that a trade is a very concrete way to ensure you can create value from scratch. That’s somewhat harder if you’ve got a degree designed for number crunching, modeling and analysis. Would you drop that and still go the trade route?

I can recommend doing so, just because you take a trade, it doesn't mean that you'll be "on the tools" forever. If you did a 3-5 year apprenticeship and became proficient in your trade (say plumber, electrician, carpenter, welder, etc) then you could use your education to start your own business and be your own boss. There's lots of contractors who are self made millionaires out there.

It may be tough to consider taking a trade, but once you're a journeyman, its a skill set that no one can take away from you and even if you decide to do something else with your uni degree and get an office job, you can always wire someone's house on the weekend, fix someone's plumbing or unlock a door after work to hustle some quick easy bucks.

This Woody Allen quote sums it up: " “Not only is there no God, but try finding a plumber on Sunday.”

I also saw this interesting video recently and noticed that non of the respondents said "I took a trade":

[ElJefe]

Am still in grad school and I have a part-time internship with an energy company. I have also worked in finance, but it didn't work out between my manager and me. I actually liked finance, I felt I was close to the top of the food chain, and the work was quite challenging (fixed income derivatives).

My grades have improved dramatically. Did horribly on my BA, but my QPA is quite good since I quit partying. Personal finances have improved as well, so now every month is a net-gain. Just feel like things are going too slowly, that the curve should be steeper, but I'm working pretty hard right now, so I think more effort is not realistic.

[WestCoast]

Got it, good stuff.

Without knowing you personally harder to give solid advice. Effectively a degree is best to come from a high end school nowadays. If given the choice between a BA from a state school (average school pay) and taking a trade... Choose a trade. However... A BA from an elite school in a money making major, outweighs a trade from what I've seen.

IMHO more people should be following Scotians path unless they are at the top.

Your background sounds more higher end (a guess of course) I'd advise having more fun while you're in school, you're not getting leverage out of a part time job it's just not financially feasible. Run at close to break even and try to have more sex. When you graduate and have a full time gig I would adjust and focus on saving more and partying less since now you can have a higher rate.

Example:
College total expense say is $2K a month but you make 2.5K... Max you can save is $500 so fuck it just party, you are not going to retire like the, just avoid debt as much as possible.

Graduate... Total expense goes to 2.5K but you're making say $4.5K a month. Well.. Every day you work you can almost not work a day for life. So stack up $2K a month The first 6 months that would be equivalent to you saving the $500 over two full years in graduate school!

Of course the numbers vary but hopefully you see the point. Life is about leverage.

In fact Scotians, story also lines up, he saved up immediately when he graduated, evaporated the debt. Put a good sum of safety cash away and went back to mixing fun in there.

That's a model I agree with. You can party here and there and still save, it's doable for sure.

[scotian]

Here's a link to a very well written article explaining the whole college Vs trades school debate, its a bit wordy and philosophical but relevant to this discussion: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicatio...-soulcraft

The best line comes at the end:

"So what advice should one give to a young person? By all means, go to college. In fact, approach college in the spirit of craftsmanship, going deep into liberal arts and sciences. In the summers, learn a manual trade. You’re likely to be less damaged, and quite possibly better paid, as an independent tradesman than as a cubicle-dwelling tender of information systems. To heed such advice would require a certain contrarian streak, as it entails rejecting a life course mapped out by others as obligatory and inevitable