[Lukecan]

(11-06-2012 01:45 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-06-2012 12:39 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Are you in a western nation? If so, then you're likely surrounded by women who are well provisioned, and well provisioned young women who aren't feeling any immediate physical or social need for a provider tend to go for "alpha" above all else.

Even in the western nation, even for the young chicks I'm pretty sure the real rich will trump the real alpha.
Of course I'm talking real rich, not some "200K a year" rich.

1-2m/year rich = Pussy in every single continent including antarctica

[Ramon Zarate]

(11-05-2012 01:05 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(11-05-2012 11:26 AM)Ramon Zarate Wrote:  

(11-03-2012 09:48 AM)Lukecan Wrote:  

Rich guys get hot girls no matter how beta they are
The thought of some alpha guy with a shitty job amogging a top corporate guy is very unrealistic.

That's because top corporate guys can be alpha as hell. Think about the environment in which they live; every day they're ordering other men around, being dominant in the boardroom, staying calm under pressure whilst making tough, risky decisions. How would an environment like this affect your worldview? You'd feel like the boss at all times (barring the odd beta corporate exec that can't translate his success in business to success with women).

I've seen this happen to me first hand. I've been arguing with people most days for the last month on political, moral and economic issues, going after them and often winning arguments... now I feel like an argumentative, domineering asshole all the time lol. Environment is important.

As for the question... I'd rather be Alpha (assuming I'm guaranteed basic subsistence) than rich (assuming its like a lottery win and not earned). Alpha is a mindset that once experienced stays in your memory for ever... money is easily spent.

Though your statement isn't necessarily wrong, these are also the same kinds of guys that go to a sex dungeon and have a dominatrix abuse them and order them around, because the pressure and weight of being Alpha becomes too much. So my question is...if you don't revel in being Alpha - if the weight of being Alpha is too great for you and is largely an act, are you truly Alpha?

That's true, same with guys who are a slave to their wives at home but let it all out at work, as harsh dictators.

[TheMachinist]

It's been my experience that self made rich guys are usually Alphas to the core.Its the fact that the man has a enough balls to go and get money thats attractive to women.Not the money itself.It's primal these types of dudes are providers in womens eyes and instinctualy thats what women want.

[Insignia]

If you are rich and nothing else= the girl will like you for your money not you

If you are alpha=the girl will like you for you, because your personality is attractive

Alpha male all the way.

[oldnemesis]

(11-06-2012 02:52 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

Possibly true, if by "real rich", we're talking high 7/low 8-figure net worths and beyond. I still think the effect is a bit more muted here than it may be elsewhere, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

It is more difficult than that. I'm talking being able to fly your own jet full of chicks to Hawaii for a cool weekend party in your mansion, doing drugs and shit. And doing it every week. So you are right that it is more than just "rich" - a lawyer who's working 18 hours a day, weekends included, and making 10M a year may be rich, but it won't help him with the girls because his lifestyle is incredibly unattractive.

[oldnemesis]

(11-07-2012 12:14 AM)Insignia Wrote:  

If you are rich and nothing else= the girl will like you for your money not you

Who cares? If a girl likes you for your money, for your style, for your height or for your big cock, what difference it makes?

I'd even say money and style is even more worth bragging, as this is something you have put effort into it while your height or cock size is your parents' gift to you.

[Insignia]

(11-07-2012 02:52 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 12:14 AM)Insignia Wrote:  

If you are rich and nothing else= the girl will like you for your money not you

Who cares? If a girl likes you for your money, for your style, for your height or for your big cock, what difference it makes?

I'd even say money and style is even more worth bragging, as this is something you have put effort into it while your height or cock size is your parents' gift to you.

Simple, when the girl finds an Alpha than she is going to cheat on you. Attraction between a man and a women, is seen through different perspectives, a man simplely sees attraction as how sexy the women is, for a women attraction is more complex because it is illogical.

That means logical reasons like looks, hieght, size, money is not as attrative to a women than an alpha male that has confidence, suave, and charismatic. I am not saying this because I am an ugly guy, infact I think I am decent looking but looks is not what I depend on.

[oldnemesis]

(11-07-2012 09:31 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

Simple, when the girl finds an Alpha than she is going to cheat on you. Attraction between a man and a women, is seen through different perspectives, a man simplely sees attraction as how sexy the women is, for a women attraction is more complex because it is illogical.

You have a very simplified view of reality. The life is are much more complex than that; in fact I'd even say less than 10% of the girls are like that (and they're a typical female type you'd meet in clubs and bars).

But being rich, why would he care if she cheats with some random dude? He has a harem anyway. Do you think Berlusconi cared any of his girls cheated on him? Some of the guys here in US still seem to get stuck in the 1950s mentality when there were no condoms and no birth control.

Quote:

That means logical reasons like looks, hieght, size, money is not as attrative to a women than an alpha male that has confidence, suave, and charismatic.

You are copy-pasting from some pickup book. Ask the author, how long this attraction lasts?

[IpsaScientiaPotestasEst]

I'd much rather have a charismatic, dynamic, original, alpha/dominating personality than money. I think people on here are WAY too concerned about the alpha/beta dynamic and what it truly means differs between everyone. That having been said, if you are "alpha" then you have an active/go getter type of attitude-in which case you are going after the things you want in life-THAT is way more attractive than money plus it gives you a fire others absolutely will NOT have.

Now if the person (hypothetically) with the money has that then great, however I think there are many too many variables here that could be thrown in. Is the rich guy just someone with money and doesn't have that great of skills or personality and just throws his money around, is the alpha therefore broke or struggling or managing to get by? etc.

I laugh when people say 'I'd rather have the money cause it gets me girls elsewhere', that may be true-but I'd rather struggle and learn the skill overall which will make me more successful in the long run than just simply having the cash and having girls like me for that. Baptism by fire>being handed things on a silver platter, the best things take time and hard work to learn.

Alpha/dynamic personality ANY day of the week over money, girls will be attracted to a personality archetype WAY sooner than they will someone with money/a provider. Just my two cents. Its when you can match the two that you become unstoppable.

[Insignia]

(11-08-2012 03:28 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-07-2012 09:31 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

Simple, when the girl finds an Alpha than she is going to cheat on you. Attraction between a man and a women, is seen through different perspectives, a man simplely sees attraction as how sexy the women is, for a women attraction is more complex because it is illogical.

You have a very simplified view of reality. The life is are much more complex than that; in fact I'd even say less than 10% of the girls are like that (and they're a typical female type you'd meet in clubs and bars).

But being rich, why would he care if she cheats with some random dude? He has a harem anyway. Do you think Berlusconi cared any of his girls cheated on him? Some of the guys here in US still seem to get stuck in the 1950s mentality when there were no condoms and no birth control.

Quote:

It is most definitely not 10%, I say 95% of girls would perfer an alpha male than a guy with a boring personality with money, I guess the girl can just look at his watch all day.

Also, what is the difference between calling a prostitute and using money to get girls? Nothing. If you like the idea that a girl will only stay with you or have sex with you for money than you are better off quiting the game and looking for prostitute, I am not making a personal attack on you oldnemisis, it is just that the there is no difference between using money to get girls and calling a prostitute, its my opinion.

That means logical reasons like looks, hieght, size, money is not as attrative to a women than an alpha male that has confidence, suave, and charismatic.

You are copy-pasting from some pickup book. Ask the author, how long this attraction lasts?

The attraction between an alpha male and a female will last way more then the girl liking the guy for money, why? Because there was no attraction between the rich guy and the women in the first place, she was attracted to his money so that does not count.

(11-08-2012 01:59 PM)IpsaScientiaPotestasEst Wrote:  

I'd much rather have a charismatic, dynamic, original, alpha/dominating personality than money. I think people on here are WAY too concerned about the alpha/beta dynamic and what it truly means differs between everyone. That having been said, if you are "alpha" then you have an active/go getter type of attitude-in which case you are going after the things you want in life-THAT is way more attractive than money plus it gives you a fire others absolutely will NOT have.

Now if the person (hypothetically) with the money has that then great, however I think there are many too many variables here that could be thrown in. Is the rich guy just someone with money and doesn't have that great of skills or personality and just throws his money around, is the alpha therefore broke or struggling or managing to get by? etc.

I laugh when people say 'I'd rather have the money cause it gets me girls elsewhere', that may be true-but I'd rather struggle and learn the skill overall which will make me more successful in the long run than just simply having the cash and having girls like me for that. Baptism by fire>being handed things on a silver platter, the best things take time and hard work to learn.

Alpha/dynamic personality ANY day of the week over money, girls will be attracted to a personality archetype WAY sooner than they will someone with money/a provider. Just my two cents. Its when you can match the two that you become unstoppable.

I agree with you completely, money is not really you, people need to ask themselves if they lost all of their money tomorrow will the girl stay with you? HELL NO.

The best thing a girl can say to me is "I don't know why I like you so much but I do" that is because it is illogical and she likes me for my personality and charm and not my looks or $$$.

[oldnemesis]

(11-09-2012 03:17 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

It is most definitely not 10%, I say 95% of girls would perfer an alpha male than a guy with a boring personality with money, I guess the girl can just look at his watch all day.

Well, if we start introducing other qualities, I'm not sure 95% of girls would prefer a 60yo homeless alcoholic Alpha guy to a young nice rich guy with boring personality. In fact I'm completely sure it is exactly the opposite.

Quote:

Also, what is the difference between calling a prostitute and using money to get girls? Nothing.
If you like the idea that a girl will only stay with you or have sex with you for money than you are better off quiting the game and looking for prostitute, I am not making a personal attack on you oldnemisis, it is just that the there is no difference between using money to get girls and calling a prostitute, its my opinion.

Indeed, there is a perfectionist view that if you use any amount of money to get the girl - and likely wouldn't get a girl if you didn't use those money - it is the same as prostitution. So if you bought her a few drinks to get her relaxed, if you got yourself a new set of club clothes you wouldn't otherwise care about, or at higher level if you rented an apartment in a nightlife location to make closing easier, you're definitely using money to get girls. As you see it is not black and white, and not every money use is prostitution.

The advantage of having a lot of money (again, we're talking about real rich, not "200k/year rich") is that you can have a lifestyle which very few could have. You can fly a chick straight from a US club to Paris in your own jet. You throw in parties which attract a lot of famous and influential people. That's a whole different world which you can open to her which she'd never be able to get in by herself. Hell, some chicks would go with you just because you have a room in Ritz penthouse overlooking the San Francisco Bay, after you tell her how cool and beautiful the view is as she likely never been in such place before. I'm not even coming with basics as just telling her you have the first-grade coke back at your place.

Quote:

The attraction between an alpha male and a female will last way more then the girl liking the guy for money, why? Because there was no attraction between the rich guy and the women in the first place, she was attracted to his money so that does not count.

What you said makes no sense at all. If she's attracted to the guy's money, then by definition she must be attracted to the guy as long as he has money. This is definitely more stable source of attraction than personality, because the guy's personality changes during the lifetime, and the girl who was attracted to the old personality might not like the new one.

Game note: here we're talking about the real alpha, not the "game-learned alpha". The last one won't last any meaningful time, and it ends up exactly the way described in "Get laid or die":

But there wasn't any substance to it; it was simply a veneer of game laid over an empty core. Yes, I could pull girls. But after my ten hours of material was exhausted, the curtain was pulled back to reveal the needy, angry little man behind it, furiously working the levers.

I'm curious how old are you? You can tell me privately if you wish. For the sake of evenness I'm 37.

[Insignia]

(11-10-2012 03:18 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-09-2012 03:17 PM)Insignia Wrote:  

It is most definitely not 10%, I say 95% of girls would perfer an alpha male than a guy with a boring personality with money, I guess the girl can just look at his watch all day.

Well, if we start introducing other qualities, I'm not sure 95% of girls would prefer a 60yo homeless alcoholic Alpha guy to a young nice rich guy with boring personality. In fact I'm completely sure it is exactly the opposite.

That is an really unfair comparison, When I say an Alpha guy that has no money, I didn't mean a homeless man that is old and cannot afford to pay for basic necessities. I meant that a 25 year old Alpha male that has a normal lifestyle with no obvious disablities in comparison to a 25 year old rich guy that has no personality that the 25 year old Alpha would get the girl over him.

Quote:

Also, what is the difference between calling a prostitute and using money to get girls? Nothing.
If you like the idea that a girl will only stay with you or have sex with you for money than you are better off quiting the game and looking for prostitute, I am not making a personal attack on you oldnemisis, it is just that the there is no difference between using money to get girls and calling a prostitute, its my opinion.

Indeed, there is a perfectionist view that if you use any amount of money to get the girl - and likely wouldn't get a girl if you didn't use those money - it is the same as prostitution. So if you bought her a few drinks to get her relaxed, if you got yourself a new set of club clothes you wouldn't otherwise care about, or at higher level if you rented an apartment in a nightlife location to make closing easier, you're definitely using money to get girls. As you see it is not black and white, and not every money use is prostitution.

The advantage of having a lot of money (again, we're talking about real rich, not "200k/year rich") is that you can have a lifestyle which very few could have. You can fly a chick straight from a US club to Paris in your own jet. You throw in parties which attract a lot of famous and influential people. That's a whole different world which you can open to her which she'd never be able to get in by herself. Hell, some chicks would go with you just because you have a room in Ritz penthouse overlooking the San Francisco Bay, after you tell her how cool and beautiful the view is as she likely never been in such place before. I'm not even coming with basics as just telling her you have the first-grade coke back at your place.

Quote:

The statement that I have made might of been a bit board but a girl liking you for money sake is the same as her selling her body. The only difference between a prostitute and and girl that likes the view of your room is one is outright offering services for money and the other offering services indirectly.

The attraction between an alpha male and a female will last way more then the girl liking the guy for money, why? Because there was no attraction between the rich guy and the women in the first place, she was attracted to his money so that does not count.

What you said makes no sense at all. If she's attracted to the guy's money, then by definition she must be attracted to the guy as long as he has money. This is definitely more stable source of attraction than personality, because the guy's personality changes during the lifetime, and the girl who was attracted to the old personality might not like the new one.

Game note: here we're talking about the real alpha, not the "game-learned alpha". The last one won't last any meaningful time, and it ends up exactly the way described in "Get laid or die":

But there wasn't any substance to it; it was simply a veneer of game laid over an empty core. Yes, I could pull girls. But after my ten hours of material was exhausted, the curtain was pulled back to reveal the needy, angry little man behind it, furiously working the levers.

I'm curious how old are you? You can tell me privately if you wish. For the sake of evenness I'm 37.

No there is a big difference between a girl liking you for your money and a girl liking you for your personality. The difference a girl having attraction for you through money is that money is an outside source of attraction if you will, while personality is an insider source. Basiacally there is a deeper level of attraction through personality then money, which means that a women will like someone with personality more then someone with money. Also, I think you have the wrong preception of me, I do not think of myself as a "gamer" or "player", infact I am non of those, through my experiences I have learned that personality>money and looks. I am not basing this on hypothesis, I am basing this through experience. I am pretty good looking(not trying to be arrogant in anyway), so there are girls that "check me out" and I am also an aspiring entreprenuer, in my opinion and experiences I find that personality has a deeper level of attraction then money and looks.

[oldnemesis]

(11-17-2012 03:11 AM)Insignia Wrote:  

No there is a big difference between a girl liking you for your money and a girl liking you for your personality. The difference a girl having attraction for you through money is that money is an outside source of attraction if you will, while personality is an insider source. Basiacally there is a deeper level of attraction through personality then money, which means that a women will like someone with personality more then someone with money.

This is true. But there is another difference that money is something you have achieved (i.e you put effort and got it), while personality is something you were simply born with. Another difference is that money is something pretty much everyone enjoys, while your personality is something only very few people would enjoy. We can go on and on with the irrelevant stuff.

What is relevant is your statement about "deeper level of attraction". Which seems to be speculation at best. I don't think your opinion is correct.

Quote:

Also, I think you have the wrong preception of me, I do not think of myself as a "gamer" or "player", infact I am non of those, through my experiences I have learned that personality>money and looks.

This was my guess, and this is why I asked how old are you, and your relationship experience. Since you make your opinion exclusively through your experience those things really matter. I stated mine; too bad you didn't state yours.

[Insignia]

(11-18-2012 03:33 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(11-17-2012 03:11 AM)Insignia Wrote:  

No there is a big difference between a girl liking you for your money and a girl liking you for your personality. The difference a girl having attraction for you through money is that money is an outside source of attraction if you will, while personality is an insider source. Basiacally there is a deeper level of attraction through personality then money, which means that a women will like someone with personality more then someone with money.

This is true. But there is another difference that money is something you have achieved (i.e you put effort and got it), while personality is something you were simply born with. Another difference is that money is something pretty much everyone enjoys, while your personality is something only very few people would enjoy. We can go on and on with the irrelevant stuff.

What is relevant is your statement about "deeper level of attraction". Which seems to be speculation at best. I don't think your opinion is correct.

You said that personality was something you were born with and that is simply not true. I was really shy throughout highschool and most of my life for that matter, before I had personality, I still had girlfriends and girls still liked me because of my looks; personality is something that can be developed and achieved just like money, like this quote, "heros are made, not born".

Quote:

Also, I think you have the wrong preception of me, I do not think of myself as a "gamer" or "player", infact I am non of those, through my experiences I have learned that personality>money and looks.

This was my guess, and this is why I asked how old are you, and your relationship experience. Since you make your opinion exclusively through your experience those things really matter. I stated mine; too bad you didn't state yours.

We are debating over a matter of preception, do not get me wrong oldnemesis I know where you are coming from, some girls just like money exclusively while some girls will like personality exclusive, but in terms of what you think attraction should be or what it is I just don't agree with, I have nothing against you, just that my opinions differ.