[plague]

yesterday I squatted 240lbs, but could only do 2 sets. I was able to do 5x5 of 240 about 6 months ago, which is my personal best. I weigh about 160 so this is 1.5 times my weight which I think is a common sticking point.

I've found that there is a subtle difference between the feeling of "wow, this is heavy" and "wow, this feels dangerous". yesterday was the latter, so I played it safe and moved the weight down a bit.

I'm wondering if anyone here has common techniques when they hit a plateau. in a slightly different example, I have some rotator cuff problems so I don't go heavy on bench, instead I will do between 8-12 reps of slow sets with dumbells and really try to control the weight. I may try the same thing with my squat for awhile.

[Hades]

From what I have experienced, most plateaus are temporary but frustrating.

I'd deload about 20% of the max weight and then gradually move your way back up over a period of about twelve weeks. Maybe five to ten extra pounds per week. So you'd eventually work your way into breaking your plateau. Once you peak at a max of like 260 or however it goes, deload again and start over. Pavel goes over this a lot in "Power to the People" (he has better numbers) and it does work great.

Since you have a low bodyweight and I figure you want to keep it that way, progressive overload is not going to work unless you start eating a lot.

You could also move to single leg training to break a plateau. Basically learn to master the pistol squat, get to where you can comfortably do about ten reps for two sets on each leg, then start adding kettlebells. If you're not interested in torquing your knees (which can happen with weighted pistols if you are not careful), use a very high stepping platform and do single leg work there. I recall reading a blog where this guy had a 20 rep max of about 300 pounds (maybe more, not sure), and he went to single leg training for about six months. After his training he could do roughly 35 reps of his original 20 rep max. Not to continually jerk off bodyweight exercises but that's nuts consider he could 35 rep an obscene amount of weight when a lot of lifters can't 35 rep their own bodyweight.

[OGNorCal707]

I think this is a common issue, I am currently stuck at 225 lbs @ 5X5 on squat and 275 lbs 5X5 on deadlift. I usually try to go up about 5 lbs in weight every week or two, and I did for several months as I started at a much lighter weight and was making steady progress. Now, I am stuck on this weight and while I could try to move up a little bit, the weight I'm at is already challenging enough as it is and I'm struggling on my last few reps. Also, I could move up in weight and sacrifice form, but I think with squats you really want good technique and to make sure you are going down low enough.

"I was able to do 5x5 of 240 about 6 months ago, which is my personal best. I weigh about 160 so this is 1.5 times my weight which I think is a common sticking point."

I don't know maybe I'm just not a genetic beast, but squatting 240 5x5 @ 160 lbs sounds pretty fucking good to me, I see a lot of guys who weigh 200 lbs that can't squat that much.

[Gunner]

I have a kind of stupid question:

How do you measure how much you lift?

For example I squat using a 45 olympic bar, and I put 2 plates of 45 and one of 25 per side (115 pounds total per side)

How much I'm lifting? The plates by 2? (220)? or counting the bar (265)? Or per side (115)

Thanks.

[billbudsocket]

Try mixing up your squat routine. I do 1 set of 20 rep squats once a week, usually for about six weeks until I hit a goal. I also do one day of heavy squat laddering a week. Lately I have been stuck with my one rep max and have started doing box squats and hamstring pulls with bands from elitefts. I couldn't squat over 300 at the beginning of the year and now I'm up to 1 rep max of 380 & a 20 rep set of 270. I weigh 215 now. Trying to hit a 1 rep max of 405 by the end of the year if I can. There are guys in my gym squatting over 800 so I watch what they do...

[OGNorCal707]

(10-23-2012 04:44 PM)bars Wrote:  

I have a kind of stupid question:

How do you measure how much you lift?

For example I squat using a 45 olympic bar, and I put 2 plates of 45 and one of 25 per side (115 pounds total per side)

How much I'm lifting? The plates by 2? (220)? or counting the bar (265)? Or per side (115)

Thanks.

You are lifting the total amount of the weight, the bar + plates.

[scorpion]

Something I've been trying lately with decent success is mixing up the numbers of reps and sets each workout then resetting after a few weeks with a slightly increased weight.

So your squat workout would be like:

Workout 1: 225# 5x5

Workout 2: 225# 6x4

Workout 3: 225# 7x4

Workout 4: 225# 8x3

Workout 5: 225# 9x3

Workout 6: 225# 10x3

So at that point you've gone from repping your weight 5 times to 10 times per set, while keeping your total number of reps within the same range. So now you increase. So you'd start over with say, 235.

Workout 1: 235# 5x5

Workout 2: 235# 6x4

etc...

I've found this works best squatting twice a week. One is too little, three is too much.

If you are getting in to what you feel is heavy weight for your body, I recommend getting a good lifting belt and some neoprene sleeves for your knees. The belt will help you maintain proper lifting posture and protect you from rounding your back and injuring yourself. The sleeves on your knees will keep the ligaments warm and protect them while squatting. Also remember to consciously push your knees outward while squatting heavy. Your natural tendency when gutting up a heavy rep will be to let your knees push to the inside, which will damage them over time. Push your knees out as you come up with heavy weight.

[Parlay44]

(10-23-2012 04:18 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Since you have a low bodyweight and I figure you want to keep it that way, progressive overload is not going to work unless you start eating a lot.

Maybe that's been my problem. I need to eat more. I always get frustrated when I
plateau and can't put up any more weight.

Do you have any recommendations on pre-workout and post-workout nutrition?
Carbs before and a huge steak after?

[WesternCancer]

Parlay try a post workout shake that has a 1-1 ratio of carbs to protein.

Good ideas in this thread. I almost broke a plateau, but as I outlined in another thread I think I overtrained I got sick for about a month. Did my first sesh yesterday and could barely hit 225 plateau was 290. I've also changed up my diet. Eggs for breakfast paleo lunch and lean protein + carbs post workout. The high fat of paleo was fucking with my digestion.

[Magic Bullets]

Squats is an interesting one, I have a rack and Olympic bar at home, the gym I go to is a Snap and has a Smith Machine, it is hard to gage what the weight is on a smith machine as opposed to oly bar. With Oly bar I know exactly what I am lifting. Haven't used 5x5 for squats yet, until I know what weight to start on. I am guessing 95-100 kg, and work my way up. Training belts are a must, I use one for deadlifting as well. I have been using olive leaf extract, to boost my immune system, it really works.

[Hades]

(10-23-2012 05:42 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

(10-23-2012 04:18 PM)Hades Wrote:  

Since you have a low bodyweight and I figure you want to keep it that way, progressive overload is not going to work unless you start eating a lot.

Maybe that's been my problem. I need to eat more. I always get frustrated when I
plateau and can't put up any more weight.

Do you have any recommendations on pre-workout and post-workout nutrition?
Carbs before and a huge steak after?

Well keep in mind that cycling DOES work. It just takes time to bring the results. You have the capability to squat 500 pounds at your bodyweight. Some athletes have done it so it is not impossible.

My only recommendation for squatting is to eat somewhat light before the workout so you don't pop a hernia. Light being whatever you normally eat. I don't see how a different ratio of carbs or protein would change anything. Experiment with it and find whatever gives you decent energy.

After the workout though (supposing you work out three days per week, ever other day with Sundays off), you're going to want to gorge like a bastard. Drink a full gallon of whole milk every day, and eat at least three (very) large meals. On Sunday, go to a chinese buffet and eat until you can't anymore.

Since you're so skinny (I would figure, at 160 pounds of bodyweight), nutrition while bulking doesn't really matter. You can safely bulk for about twelve to fourteen weeks. You're probably going to weigh something like 190-210 pounds after you're done bulking but I would not doubt that your squat approaches something like 400-450 pounds or more. The Starting Strength forums will help you out a lot more than the RVF to be honest.

[scorpion]

(10-24-2012 06:42 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Well keep in mind that cycling DOES work. It just takes time to bring the results. You have the capability to squat 500 pounds at your bodyweight. Some athletes have done it so it is not impossible.

While it's possible that any individual person could squat 500 lbs., it's certainly not true that every person can do so, even with years of training.

That's just as unrealistic as saying that every guy can become a world-class player if he just devotes enough energy to the game.

Individual genetics will play a big role in determining a person's ultimate potential for strength. Telling everyone they can squat 500 lbs. if they try hard enough is just going to result in a ton of guys injuring themselves because they're trying to push beyond their genetic limits.

Look at this table of lifting performance, and keep in mind that only 1% of people who lift weights will reach the "elite" threshold.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLiftin...dards.html

Don't take this to mean that I'm saying guys shouldn't lift heavy weights and push themselves. I'm just saying that at some point you have to be realistic and listen to your body, and recognize that if you aren't an elite athlete you probably aren't going to be pushing those huge weight stacks. And that's ok. For the average guy who just wants to build muscle and maintain a high level of fitness, there's not much functional difference between squatting 250 and 500 lbs.

Plus I'd rather be squatting 250 in perfect health than fuck up my knees and back by chasing after 500.

[plague]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'm about 5'10'' so it's true that at 160 my physique is on the skinny side. I've been working to put on some weight via protein shakes and larger, more protein based meals. I've put on almost 10 pounds in the past month.

I'm going to try going a bit lighter with the weight and higher reps for a few weeks, then maybe start to alternate with heavy and lighter workouts. I feel like there is a mental exhaustion to lifting heavy that makes it hard to maintain for extended periods of time. when I stare at that squat bar before a set sometimes I think my body is crying on the inside, whimpering "please, no, not this again..."

[Aliblahba]

(10-24-2012 10:23 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

(10-24-2012 06:42 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Well keep in mind that cycling DOES work. It just takes time to bring the results. You have the capability to squat 500 pounds at your bodyweight. Some athletes have done it so it is not impossible.

While it's possible that any individual person could squat 500 lbs., it's certainly not true that every person can do so, even with years of training.

That's just as unrealistic as saying that every guy can become a world-class player if he just devotes enough energy to the game.

Individual genetics will play a big role in determining a person's ultimate potential for strength. Telling everyone they can squat 500 lbs. if they try hard enough is just going to result in a ton of guys injuring themselves because they're trying to push beyond their genetic limits.

Look at this table of lifting performance, and keep in mind that only 1% of people who lift weights will reach the "elite" threshold.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLiftin...dards.html

Don't take this to mean that I'm saying guys shouldn't lift heavy weights and push themselves. I'm just saying that at some point you have to be realistic and listen to your body, and recognize that if you aren't an elite athlete you probably aren't going to be pushing those huge weight stacks. And that's ok. For the average guy who just wants to build muscle and maintain a high level of fitness, there's not much functional difference between squatting 250 and 500 lbs.

Plus I'd rather be squatting 250 in perfect health than fuck up my knees and back by chasing after 500.

Wait. That's not what I was taught in school. EVERYONE can be an astronaut. LOL. No hate hades, and I think scorpion is the next big hitter on the forum. BUT! Not everyone can achieve what Olympic athletes do. I made it to a sub 18:00 3 mile, AFTER the Marines, and it took a toll on my body. And then there was the triathlon training. My body just couldn't take the abuse.

Look at the best of the best. NFL, Delta, ect. How do they keep it up? Their fucking knees are genetically stronger than mine. Play your strengths and fight your weaknesses.

[scorpion]

(10-24-2012 10:43 AM)plague Wrote:  

... when I stare at that squat bar before a set sometimes I think my body is crying on the inside, whimpering "please, no, not this again..."

Ha, that is so true.

I think this is one of the greatest benefits of lifting heavy weights though.

It really forces you to become mentally tough and push through pain barriers.

The ability to force yourself to do difficult things that don't feel good but that you know will ultimately benefit you is an extremely valuable skill.

Arnold credited his foundation in bodybuilding and the self-discipline/strong will he forged in the gym for much of his later success in life.

[Hades]

(10-24-2012 10:23 AM)scorpion Wrote:  

(10-24-2012 06:42 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Well keep in mind that cycling DOES work. It just takes time to bring the results. You have the capability to squat 500 pounds at your bodyweight. Some athletes have done it so it is not impossible.

While it's possible that any individual person could squat 500 lbs., it's certainly not true that every person can do so, even with years of training.

That's just as unrealistic as saying that every guy can become a world-class player if he just devotes enough energy to the game.

Individual genetics will play a big role in determining a person's ultimate potential for strength. Telling everyone they can squat 500 lbs. if they try hard enough is just going to result in a ton of guys injuring themselves because they're trying to push beyond their genetic limits.

Look at this table of lifting performance, and keep in mind that only 1% of people who lift weights will reach the "elite" threshold.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLiftin...dards.html

Don't take this to mean that I'm saying guys shouldn't lift heavy weights and push themselves. I'm just saying that at some point you have to be realistic and listen to your body, and recognize that if you aren't an elite athlete you probably aren't going to be pushing those huge weight stacks. And that's ok. For the average guy who just wants to build muscle and maintain a high level of fitness, there's not much functional difference between squatting 250 and 500 lbs.

Plus I'd rather be squatting 250 in perfect health than fuck up my knees and back by chasing after 500.

I'm kind of replying to Aliblahba too, it's just a very long post to requote.

I agree that some people do not have the genetic capability to squat 500 pounds. Same applies to the shoulders, some people have a genetic predisposition to shoulder injuries and shit. It's not something you can help, it's only something you should know about so you can train around it. There's a lot of compromises you have to make for this sort of thing.

I saw a video somewhere where this huge dinosaur of a man (must have been pushing 400 pounds of bodyweight) was squatting a thousand pounds as a 1 rep max. Just goes to show that if you pack on shitloads of muscle (the guy was pretty fat too though), you can squat more.

I just figure that since the OP is only 160 pounds and can already squat 260 he could probably throw around 500 pounds at about 200 pounds of body weight. Mark Rippetoe's written some papers on this that can back me up if you guys want hard numbers.

If he's happy with less of a weight then a 300 pound squat is a respectable goal. Most guys off the street probably can't squat the bar and one plate so there's nothing wrong with a 300 pound squat.

This is a game forum to be sure so the mentality of "push yourself until you break" is kind of anti-game (and a little self destructive), but different strokes for different folks I guess.

[WesternCancer]

I think its perfectly reasonable for any man who trains regularily, eats enough etc to squat 400lb, most guys wont, but you know you'll be strong - mentally and physically - when you can.

[Aliblahba]

I couldn't make it into Force Recon. Spent many hours running, swimming against the current, ect. My body couldn't take it. Took years for me to accept this. What I did learn is my eye sight is keen, and my hand is steady. Gents, I've walked the streets of Baghdad on a voluntary basis. I lived for a reason.

Play your strengths. Fight the weakness.

[Alpha Mind]

(10-23-2012 04:10 PM)plague Wrote:  

yesterday I squatted 240lbs, but could only do 2 sets. I was able to do 5x5 of 240 about 6 months ago, which is my personal best. I weigh about 160 so this is 1.5 times my weight which I think is a common sticking point.

I've found that there is a subtle difference between the feeling of "wow, this is heavy" and "wow, this feels dangerous". yesterday was the latter, so I played it safe and moved the weight down a bit.

I'm wondering if anyone here has common techniques when they hit a plateau. in a slightly different example, I have some rotator cuff problems so I don't go heavy on bench, instead I will do between 8-12 reps of slow sets with dumbells and really try to control the weight. I may try the same thing with my squat for awhile.

Start doing palm squats (with your palms flat on the ground) and 100+ kettlebell swings 2 times per week.

You'll move. Trust me

[Faust]

How's your posture and core?

[Anon-A-Moose]

I lift very heavy (like sometimes as low as four reps, but at 90+% 1RM), and every three or four weeks my lifts plummet (like 30%!).

I'd try taking a week off. Of all weight lifting. I usually find my strength to be actually less when I return the first time, but by the second trip back I'm in high gear. I just recently busted my plateau for benches this way.

[RichieP]

What are you guy's motivation in getting so strong in the barbell lifts? Aren't you worried about longevity, injuries, etc? Does it maybe make more sense to be "strong enough" for as long as you can, rather than really strong in your 20s-40s then injured and broken later on?. Almost anyone I've heard of who've stayed under the bar for decades has ended up with serious knee, hip, back issues. Didnt Rippetoe even have hip surgery or something? Strength training is healthy but pushing so hard for constant gains over years surely takes its toll, like marathon runners who's training fucks their hearts up etc? Thoughts?

For me, after a few months, I knew I was way stronger than the average guy and going further wasn't going to benefit me much. When I was squatting 120kg x5 I was immensely stronger than anyone else in my BJJ class; higher belts and massive guys would want to roll with me just for the challenge of trying to break my guard because I could grip them like iron with my legs. All I did was squat heavy and add weight to the bar for a few months.

I kinda thought I'd just leave it there, no need to get any stronger and no point risking the injury. (Ironically, I injured myself anyway and can't squat, DL or press heavy now lol).

[Magic Bullets]

Combat sports are going to have a huge injury toll. If you are doing that in conjunction with lifting weights, then you sure you are going to be more prone to injury. Sensible strength training does exactly that, keeps you stronger for longer. If you are referring to guys on the juice, sure they too would be more prone to injury. Most people who have stuck at it for years, for the most part are injury free, I can say that for myself. The beauty of 5x5 is you don't necessarily have to go to failure, you can leave a little in the tank, and progress can be fairly consistant, nutrition is very important as well. Quitting after the initial few months of good gains, is kind of defeatist, you are on a journey that lasts much longer than just a few months. That is one of the reasons I strongly believe in training naturally as well. You should really look up to the guys who have been at it for the longhaul those are the guys who know their shit.