[trainwreck]

Maybe kind of relevant to this thread here but I feel like this is on a different progression already...

Was seeing a girl during a 4 week stay in her city. We hit it off really well, SNL that developed into a kind of mini relationship. She's 20, I'd say an 8.5. She really liked me, told parents about me after first night (who apparently told her to be careful with me lol) and so on.

3 weeks in, she flakes on me last minute for "being sick" and I don't make a big deal out of it even though we had planned for a week to spend friday until sat afternoon together doing stuff in the city and hanging out. That saturday night she's supposed to be super sick, I run into her at a club. She's uber apologetic, tells me how her friends dragged her out of the house, blah blah blah. I make no big deal out of it and bang her again that night, and again, we have a great time.

I leave the city, constantly travelling to other cities. We text each other at least once a day with high investment from her side.

2 weeks later I'm in her city again for 2 nights. She, first when she hears about this is super excited to see me again.. tells me how much she would love to sleep over and then ends up flaking on me with "I'm busy preparing for a 3 month stay in Berlin" (that is still 1 month away lol. ya right). I make no big deal out of it, bang other girl I have in that city instead.

Once I leave her city, she texts me how she would've loved to see me and how she misses me and I call her out on that by saying "well, I didn't hear this when I was still in your town". She then goes along with a huge text about how she was "physicall and mentally" busy (lol) and how I should come visit her while she'll be in Berlin while she's there for 3 months. I decline that (anyway very vague) offer and I make no big deal out of it. I stop texting her on daily basis, she drunk texted me the other day asking why I don't text her anymore.

What would you guys do. She's definitely hot and I actually really enjoy the time I spend with her when she actually doesnt flake. We've banged a couple times and I can tell she liked the sex we had together too.. so yeah, her investment is there too so I guess I can call her out (especially since keeping her as an option for whenever I'm back in her town is awesome).. but I wanna do it smoothly.

[XXL]

i'd tell her something like "i like spending time with you you're so xyz and the sex is so hot but you can go fuck yourself with your little games, go play games with your gay friends who tolerate any kind of shit from from, i'm not that guy.. tell me straightforward what's up i have no time for bullshit. too bad cause i really felt like opening up with you. take care"

[3rdmilleniummen]

(10-06-2012 06:39 AM)trainwreck Wrote:  

Maybe kind of relevant to this thread here but I feel like this is on a different progression already...

Was seeing a girl during a 4 week stay in her city. We hit it off really well, SNL that developed into a kind of mini relationship. She's 20, I'd say an 8.5. She really liked me, told parents about me after first night (who apparently told her to be careful with me lol) and so on.

3 weeks in, she flakes on me last minute for "being sick" and I don't make a big deal out of it even though we had planned for a week to spend friday until sat afternoon together doing stuff in the city and hanging out. That saturday night she's supposed to be super sick, I run into her at a club. She's uber apologetic, tells me how her friends dragged her out of the house, blah blah blah. I make no big deal out of it and bang her again that night, and again, we have a great time.

I leave the city, constantly travelling to other cities. We text each other at least once a day with high investment from her side.

2 weeks later I'm in her city again for 2 nights. She, first when she hears about this is super excited to see me again.. tells me how much she would love to sleep over and then ends up flaking on me with "I'm busy preparing for a 3 month stay in Berlin" (that is still 1 month away lol. ya right). I make no big deal out of it, bang other girl I have in that city instead.

Once I leave her city, she texts me how she would've loved to see me and how she misses me and I call her out on that by saying "well, I didn't hear this when I was still in your town". She then goes along with a huge text about how she was "physicall and mentally" busy (lol) and how I should come visit her while she'll be in Berlin while she's there for 3 months. I decline that (anyway very vague) offer and I make no big deal out of it. I stop texting her on daily basis, she drunk texted me the other day asking why I don't text her anymore.

What would you guys do. She's definitely hot and I actually really enjoy the time I spend with her when she actually doesnt flake. We've banged a couple times and I can tell she liked the sex we had together too.. so yeah, her investment is there too so I guess I can call her out (especially since keeping her as an option for whenever I'm back in her town is awesome).. but I wanna do it smoothly.

What do you want from her? A relationship? Cause you're never going to get it.

The best you can get is what you have been already, because she sounds very scattered. Put her on the backburner.

[trainwreck]

(10-06-2012 07:29 AM)3rdmilleniummen Wrote:  

What do you want from her? A relationship? Cause you're never going to get it.

The best you can get is what you have been already, because she sounds very scattered. Put her on the backburner.

No, not looking for anything serious at all. Just want to be able to come into her city and bang her whenever I get there. Or maybe get her to come chill with me once in a while.

[Pappy]

(10-06-2012 07:39 AM)trainwreck Wrote:  

(10-06-2012 07:29 AM)3rdmilleniummen Wrote:  

What do you want from her? A relationship? Cause you're never going to get it.

The best you can get is what you have been already, because she sounds very scattered. Put her on the backburner.

No, not looking for anything serious at all. Just want to be able to come into her city and bang her whenever I get there. Or maybe get her to come chill with me once in a while.

Well if you don't want anything serious keep doing what you're doing. But it seems to me she likes you and she's trying to keep you, playing independant and hard to get etc. Seems to me she feels more for you than you feel for her and she's trying to get back on top.

[trainwreck]

(10-06-2012 10:01 AM)Pappy Wrote:  

Well if you don't want anything serious keep doing what you're doing. But it seems to me she likes you and she's trying to keep you, playing independant and hard to get etc. Seems to me she feels more for you than you feel for her and she's trying to get back on top.

well that's the thing.. playing hard to get after we had been banging for weeks? Also, her being 20.. I think that her friends def. play a role in this whole thing, probably discouraging her of seeing me.

[Roosh]

Quote:

She's definitely hot and I actually really enjoy the time I spend with her

Call-outs only work if you have the upper hand or at least care about her less. Doesn't seem to be the case here. You like her, she's stringing you along, using increasingly bad excuses, and seems to have backup plans and a large social circle that means she wouldn't be hurt if you dropped out.

The best thing you can do is drop all relationship pretensions and treat her aloof, like a fuck buddy. She may come around in that case.

[MrXY]

Just text her every couple of weeks and exchange a few texts.

Then booty text her when you are coming to her city.

If she's free and horny she'll probably see you.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

No.

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/04/0...-behavior/

[iknowexactly]

[quote] (10-06-2012 07:29 AM)3rdmilleniummen Wrote:  

[quote='trainwreck' pid='282023' dateline='1349523592']
Maybe kind of relevant to this and I can tell she liked the sex we had together too.. so yeah, her investment is there too[/quote]


1) Never believe excuses. 2) Never. 3) Never

There is no investment on her part, except to bullshit you to control you. Also, the part about being apologetic is also totally off. SHe was just convincing herself that she's nice when she flat out totally lied because she was hoping to nail another guy she likes more. Her apologies had nothing to do with caring about your feelings.

She fucks you when and if it's convenient.

I only know how we tend to actually believe bitches because I did it for ages. Every thing she says verbally has no relationship to the truth except an inverse one. They talk to conceal feelings, except when she's coming on your cock , carrying your baby, or explaining why she wants to be friends. They don't even know what the truth is , they just react to how they feel in the moment to preserve vanity-- her words are just her babbling, saying whatever will make her feel better about herself.

They say whatever they think people want to hear unless she really totally sick of you or scared of you and wants you out of her life, even out as an orbiter.

The only times she'll be honest is if she hates/has contempt for you, or is adoring your wallet or fame-- if you are somewhere in the middle as convenience fuck or orbiter everything she says will be a lie.

[jerome]

(10-06-2012 09:32 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

[quote] (10-06-2012 07:29 AM)3rdmilleniummen Wrote:  

Maybe kind of relevant to this and I can tell she liked the sex we had together too.. so yeah, her investment is there too

1) Never believe excuses. 2) Never. 3) Never

There is no investment on her part, except to bullshit you to control you. Also, the part about being apologetic is also totally off. SHe was just convincing herself that she's nice when she flat out totally lied because she was hoping to nail another guy she likes more. Her apologies had nothing to do with caring about your feelings.

She fucks you when and if it's convenient.

I only know how we tend to actually believe bitches because I did it for ages. Every thing she says verbally has no relationship to the truth except an inverse one. They talk to conceal feelings, except when she's coming on your cock , carrying your baby, or explaining why she wants to be friends. They don't even know what the truth is , they just react to how they feel in the moment to preserve vanity-- her words are just her babbling, saying whatever will make her feel better about herself.

They say whatever they think people want to hear unless she really totally sick of you or scared of you and wants you out of her life, even out as an orbiter.

The only times she'll be honest is if she hates/has contempt for you, or is adoring your wallet or fame-- if you are somewhere in the middle as convenience fuck or orbiter everything she says will be a lie.

Who lies more women or men....the answer is women...well said brother. well said.

Women love to make excuse to preserve there vanity and to hide there high propensity to lie and cheat.....and to attention whore at any minute.

[trainwreck]

thanks guys. will cut down on texting and just booty call whenever im in town.

[adubz]

I've always understood doing things like calling people out (men or women) to work only when you can do it in a manner that doesn't suggest that you're upset or mad (unless you want that to be your point). My best moments when calling out women are when I can almost humiliate her or look cool in the process, and walk away in a similar fashion.

[Menace]

I think calling out women only works when they are heavily invested in you. Then her hamster works in your favor b/c she has to rationalize why she has put so much effort and emotion into you. We should not fight the hamster. Giving women who are not invested ANY kind of emotion is a GIFT for/to them, they are just wired that way. That's probably why being aloof is the best approach.

[Knowledge Seeker]

(10-07-2012 08:16 AM)Menace Wrote:  

I think calling out women only works when they are heavily invested in you. Then her hamster works in your favor b/c she has to rationalize why she has put so much effort and emotion into you. We should not fight the hamster. Giving women who are not invested ANY kind of emotion is a GIFT for/to them, they are just wired that way. That's probably why being aloof is the best approach.

This. Who gives a shit?

If she's playing too many games for your taste, drop her.

I was dealing with a 20 year old who constantly played games to the point where it became frustrating just to schedule a hangout with her. The young ones are still naive at heart. If you feel like you're past that stage, you need to start going for older women with experience.

[Samseau]

You can, and should call girls out on bad behavior, but your timing and phrasing of your callout needs to be perfect to avoid making yourself look weak.

Also, playing "aloof" is a shit strategy in the long run. It might work every once and awhile, but keep playing aloof and she'll realize you have no balls and she can walk all over you.

Handsome Creepy Eel: That heartiste article was about calling out bad behavior BEFORE you've had sex with her. Trainwreck had been boning this chick for 3 weeks, there are much different rules to apply here.



Let's review:

Quote:

3 weeks in, she flakes on me last minute for "being sick" and I don't make a big deal out of it even though we had planned for a week to spend friday until sat afternoon together doing stuff in the city and hanging out. That saturday night she's supposed to be super sick, I run into her at a club. She's uber apologetic, tells me how her friends dragged her out of the house, blah blah blah. I make no big deal out of it and bang her again that night, and again, we have a great time.

This was the first time she flaked on you. Okay. You played it cool, it worked, you got the bang. But subconciously, you've basically given her the green light to lie and treat you like shit.

I would have given her hell, but in a way that girls understand. After spotting her at the club, and she apologizes, you make her work harder to qualify herself to you.

her: "Omg im so sorry my friends just dragged me out blah blah blah"

(take your hands and place them around her waist. Always escalate physically while escalating verbally)
"I'm not sure I can accept your apology. You blatantly lied to me."

her: "omg I'm so sorry blah blah blah" or "omg I wasn't lying! I was really sick but my friends just pulled me by my hair blah blah blah excuse excuse excuse"

"Listen babe, if you don't want to see me anymore just say so. You aren't going to hurt my feelings. But lying to me is a real piece of shit move. How am I supposed to respect you after that?"

her: "I said I was sorry! Omg fuck you what do you want me to do? blah blah balh" or "Please I want you to respect me! Don't think of me that way blah blah blah"

"I really want to like you, but you're making this hard. Promise me you won't lie to me like this again."

At this point, she either bends to your will and promises not to lie (she accepts your frame), or she rejects you entirely and tells you to get out of her life. In my opinion, it's better to use these opportunities and make a stand, rather than just play along to get along which always ends with the predictable results of you getting shit on again and again.

The line, "How am I supposed to respect you after that" is such a killer line; it sends all hamsters into overdrive. She will be reeling from that. Not only are the chances high she'll bang you afterwards, but you're making her feel guilty and making her buy into your frame. You are controlling her emotions, which is a good place to be.


Moving forward through your example, you missed another good opportunity:

Quote:

2 weeks later I'm in her city again for 2 nights. She, first when she hears about this is super excited to see me again.. tells me how much she would love to sleep over and then ends up flaking on me with "I'm busy preparing for a 3 month stay in Berlin" (that is still 1 month away lol. ya right). I make no big deal out of it, bang other girl I have in that city instead.

I would have pushed to see her, but in a different way.

"You're preparing for a 3 month stay? That's cool I'll swing by and help out."

If she rejects that offer you know she don't give a fuck about you, so at this point you've lost all hand in the relationship. If she rejects the above offer, then all you do is stop texting. Cut off contact, she's done. If she wants to see you again she'll make a move otherwise you have zero power in the relationship.


Instead, you played it cool, and now she never sees you. It's predictable.

[Gmac]

Rule of thumb is, it's your duty to call a woman out on her shit. Just don't do it all the time.

With flaking though, you're better off moving on. In your case, she's long over you already.

[Basil Ransom]

(10-07-2012 07:14 AM)trainwreck Wrote:  

thanks guys. will cut down on texting and just booty call whenever im in town.

This is what I'd do.

Calling out a girl is nice, but it doesn't work after she has rejected you. If she's not agreeing to meet up with you, when there is no clear excuse, she's rejecting you. Unless you manage to laser in on some insecurity of hers, like her big schnozzola (nose), anything you say after she rejected you will be written off as you being a bitter loser.

If a girl still wants you, you can call her out. There may be things which she's hypersensitive about, like her weight, and calling her out could make her walk, even if she wanted you moments before. At that point, you gotta be comfortable having her walk if you're gonna call her out, preferably by working other hoes simultaneously.

And just for anyone wondering, visiting her is a terrible idea, unless other business brought you to her city already.

And some girls are just flaky hoes, who'd bang you if you ran into them again, as you yourself experienced, but would not consciously *meet up* with you. That's where she's at. She won't make plans to fuck you, but if you land in her lap, she'll take the dick. Maybe if you end up in her city, send her a really low key text, like "mmm, enjoying some coffee at [local joint]." Not that exact text, you can come up with something cooler. But take her by surprise, don't tell her three weeks before that you're coming to her city - that will lower your value. She may want to meet up, or she may just bullshit back. Don't explicitly invite her to meet up if she doesn't offer, but mention somewhere you'll be and see if she takes the bait and invites herself.

[trainwreck]

(10-07-2012 01:23 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

This was the first time she flaked on you. Okay. You played it cool, it worked, you got the bang. But subconciously, you've basically given her the green light to lie and treat you like shit.

now looking back, that's the thought I had. I just played cool.. it worked out short term but I wasn't sure if it was going to work out in the long run.

What also might've mattered why I got to bang her again is that I had another girl at the same club that wanted to hook up with me (and is actually coming to visit me next week).. and that one made it blatantly obvious in front of the flaky one. That's why I thought playing it cool would work in the long run (he has other hot options..)

Funny thing is also that this flaky girl noticed me reading the other girls' subsequent text that was saying something like "hey where are you? Lets meet up at xyz" and then instantly pushed for us to leave the club, lol

Calling her out in that moment would've been the right thing to do IMO. But that moment is gone. Although I feel that she'll be asking me why I stopped texting her regularly pretty soon. After all this BS... don't care about her anymore either. What would you guys do in such a case? Tell her that she's been playing just too much BS and that I don't put up with that or just tell her that I've been busy...

She knows I have options, I'm well off and I'm in a country full of beautiful women. About time that I start acting like that.

[theIVth]

It sounds like your just this girls side piece. She was attracted to you so she fucked you, but she realizes that you don't even live in her city and your constantly in and out. She more than likely has a main dude that lives there that she prioritizes over you.

I wouldn't take it personal tho. With this type of behavior she probably really is an 8 with options and isn't going to be dropping everything when you call; only a lower value girl would do that.

Seems like you just generally care more than she does.

[trainwreck]

Just a short update.

I didn't message her a couple days, she started asking about the city I'm currently in, if it's a good city, how the apartment is, etc.. all the shit you ask before asking if you should come over. I tell her to come over so we can stop sexting and move over to the real thing, she gives me the typical "aww I wish but I don't have time / money (which is BS)" excuse. I shrug it off as OK and she says good night in 4 long texts, no answer from me.

Didn't text her for 10 days, she sees me constantly getting checked in at places by other hot chicks on FB and texts me up drunk again friday night, telling me how the guys in her current city suck. I don't answer.

Next morning she texts me about how she met some Canadian guy last night but that he's not nearly as funny as me. Then proceeds to ask me how I'm doing.

I text her something along the lines of, Cool story bro, What is this? So we're textbuddies now? Penpals? Or people who actually meet up. She texts back with some stuff about how hard it is for her to let everything go, I text back "ok."

She asks "ok?!" right away, I don't answer. 3 hrs later she's like "ok, well let me know when you're back in my city and we can meet for sure.. pinky swear "

no answer from my side and I don't plan to, written this one off as too much BS / can't be arsed.

[Samseau]

Yeah, I would just play hardball with her at this point since she doesn't matter.

Text her, "If you want to hang you can come to my city." and nothing else. Her reaction will tell you everything