[Eddie Winslow]

Recently, due to a number of different factors, my attitude towards women has reached its lowest point ever. This is not only hurting my game and the relationship with the girl I’m currently dating, but ruining my general mood. Also, maybe it’s just me, but I feel like many recent threads in the Game forum here have been gravitating away from advice on banging girls to arguments and stories explaining why women are awful people. I've been experiencing the following symptoms:

-obsession with defending men
-obsession with calling girls out on even the mildest bad behavior
-starting arguments and then refusing to apologize when I know I'm being a huge dick
-looking to hurt girl's feelings purposely
-Reciting insults I plan to drop in the mirror to girls I haven't even met or during arguments that don't even exist yet

I'm not like this around the clock, but definitely for a good portion of the day; staying positive has been very difficult lately. I thought I was past this stage, but I'm taking a turn in the wrong direction. Obviously, this is far from "the vibe" that Roosh describes in Bang.

In my group of friends, I've been blessed to have two natural alphas that are ridiculously good with women. They have very different personalities and vibes and, since I quit being a bitch and got into game, I've spent countless hours watching them in action.

My first friend is a classic alpha male that has been described ad nauseum. 9.5 out of 10 on looks. Built like an NFL linebacker. Comically aloof, confident, and cocky (but can back it up). Puts bitches in their place when it's definitely called for. Very successful business man. Escalates and takes risks like a champ. Can (and often does) fuck one, two, or even three new hotties every week, but can easily become a caring and loyal boyfriend with the right girl. During a bar approach, all he has to do is talk about himself, make a couple lame jokes, and virtually all 8s and below are ready to get pounded on the spot. Not surprisingly, he is generally a very happy dude and truly "gets along" with women. He’s not particularly funny, but he appreciates life and is playful with every woman he meets. When he is upset, he is violent and psychotic.

My other friend is like someone you have never met. He is a clown and an asshole of epic proportions. 7.5 or 8 out of 10 on looks. Skinny, has a noticeable lisp, sometimes questionable hygiene, and has a pretty gross chronic heat rash on most of his body that comes and goes. Likes to show off his unimpressive penis by spontaneously masturbating during pre-games and dropping his pants while playing pickup basketball. Every sentence out of his mouth is one of the following:

-mindless idiotic gibberish
-a brutal, hilarious insult to one his friends or a nearby female
-random obscenities, racial slurs, or references to gay incest

Confident and cocky, but not as much as friend number one. Has a unique job that lets allows him to go out any night he wants and drop seemingly unlimited dough. Doesn’t need to put bitches in their place because he literally ignores everything that comes out of their mouths. Escalates and takes risks like a champ. I’ve seen him bang a respectable random on five consecutive nights with awful logistics (Tuesday-Saturday). During a bar approach, he talks about his crush on teenage male pop stars or how he would rather fuck his own grandmother than the girl he is speaking with. He is absolutely hilarious. Since he doesn’t take anyone seriously and vice versa, he is very happy. His life is one very funny joke. The thing I admire most about him is that he is like this practically 24/7. When he took a huge hit in the stock market, lost two iPhones in a weekend, or was diagnosed with a mild STD, he was right back to cracking jokes and calling me a “faggot bald-headed astronaut” after just a few hours of relative glumness. He certainly isn't going to let any cunty woman ruin his day. And believe me when I say girls love him; he recently SNL’d a very conservative girl just a couple hours after telling her the story of when he caught that STD.

Getting laid and having a solid gaming skillset is important. Money and good looks help. But I believe a positive vibe and outlook on life truly make a man happy. I’ve seen first-hand the incredible power “the vibe” has in getting money, pussy, and confidence anyway. Starting now, I am going to make a big-time effort to push that feminist-hating bullshit aside and just keep that smile on my face. Who’s with me?

[HoustonRookie]

I'm with you.

This post really hit home for me. After starting to read Roosh, Heartiste, etc. my response has been and still is anger. I am constantly angry because my mind wanders back to all the times that I was such a huge beta, and girls walked all over me. I think about the times I would bend over backwards for women who would literally be fucking my best friends. It resulted in a hate for women that ran deep into my veins, and I think it really showed. I stopped being a beta, but I was definitely not alpha. I was just bitter.

I, like you, have a friend that is alpha as fuck, but instead of learning from him, I responded with jealousy because his life has always been filled with women, success, and happiness (he didn't go to college but makes tons of money, sleeps with multiple girls, draws friends to him, etc.)

I am trying to learn to look at this in a different light. Girls are just being girls, responding to their instincts, and my friend is just enjoying his life like I should be. I realize that being bitter and angry gets me absolutely nowhere and will just drive people away, but I still catch myself getting angry and letting my thoughts wander back to how pathetic the old me was.

So yes, I'm with you. I'm going to make a concerted effort to drive that part of me out.

[XXL]

yup, i've seen it too many times. they're funny as hell and effective too. i always try to demolish these guys' frame and they just never crumble. never. like i point out something about them and they can't process it like i was talking arabic, they're just like "huh? that's stupid.." and they go back to their regular program ahahhahaha.. oblivious/delusional bastards. they're not affected by girls at all and can generate positive emotions pretty much 24/7 which is very attractive in general cause it implies ABUNDANCE. bunch of stiflers.

smile on your face is actually the best response to a girl being standoffish or sceptic (shittests) like when she's acting up/putting you down and you just smirk/smile just looking at her like she's little girl.

[Giovonny]

(09-18-2012 03:44 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

Recently, due to a number of different factors, my attitude towards women has reached its lowest point ever. This is not only hurting my game and the relationship with the girl I’m currently dating, but ruining my general mood.

You perspective is negative. Your attitude is negative.

It's hard to be successful with this mindset.

(09-18-2012 03:44 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

-obsession with defending men
-obsession with calling girls out on even the mildest bad behavior
-starting arguments and then refusing to apologize when I know I'm being a huge dick
-looking to hurt girl's feelings purposely
-Reciting insults I plan to drop in the mirror to girls I haven't even met or during arguments that don't even exist yet

You are having imaginary arguments with imaginary girls?!?!?

This is what negativity breeds...delusion, bitterness, unhappiness, depression.

(09-18-2012 03:44 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

he appreciates life and is playful with every woman he meets.

This is a healthier perspective. This attitude will lead to more success with women.

(09-18-2012 03:44 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

He doesn’t take anyone seriously and vice versa, he is very happy. His life is one very funny joke. The thing I admire most about him is that he is like this practically 24/7.

He certainly isn't going to let any cunty woman ruin his day.

Another good perspective. These guys are happier then you and they get more p*ssy then you. So, learn from them. Imitate them. Copy their attitude and outlook.

(09-18-2012 03:44 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

I believe a positive vibe and outlook on life truly make a man happy.

I agree. Why aren't you living your beliefs?

Negativity causes depression and disease. People don't like to be around negative people. Why choose to live way?!?

You can think the world is negative. You can think the world is positive. Both are probably true.

Pick the one that brings you the most happiness, money and sex.

For me, the choose is easy.

[Eddie Winslow]

(09-18-2012 04:49 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

I agree. Why aren't you living your beliefs?

Negativity causes depression and disease. People don't like to be around negative people. Why choose to live way?!?

You can think the world is negative. You can think the world is positive. Both are probably true.

Pick the one that brings you the most happiness, money and sex.

For me, the choose is easy.

I hear you man. It's just a rut; I think I lost sight of the big picture for a couple weeks.

I follow Heartiste and RVF daily like many others. Although they are entertaining and contain great information, they also provide constant reminders of the rude and unfair behavior alot of women get away with and the American society that often promotes this. I don't get upset at the common rejections and flakes, but I was getting pissed about all the anti-man horror stories I read on here. I was going out of my way to make these extreme instances I read about applicable to my own life. It got me worked up and made my perception to bad female behavior very, very sensitive. Stuff I normally wouldn't even notice. I've been feeling a personal responsibility to fight back even though the bad behavior doesn't really affect me. I've been looking to go to war and it has made me negative. But it's not my fight to fight.

Gio - you are one of my favorite posters here. I've read alot of your posts, and you don't get involved in this "women's crimes against men" newsfeed. You write about approaching and getting laid. Good for you - that is the original reason I joined RVF. The purpose of this thread was to convince myself and any other angry RVFers to get back strictly to the basics - getting laid, making money, and living an exciting life - and quit getting emotionally involved with the fight against feminism.

The people who should be getting emotionally involved are the hopeless beta types who get abused by ruthless girls. But they won't. And that's no longer my problem.

[bodmon]

indeed, all the realtalk on the rooshosphere has been bad for my inner game :_(

[Screwston]

Good post. I've become bitter with girls over the past few years and it shows with how much my pussy rate dropped. I think my only hope at this point is traveling.

[Blunt]

Very good post. I've been in a similar rut and taking life and girls especially way too seriously. At my best I had an attitude and style almost like your #2 friend and I've strayed way too far from that. I definitely am going to cut out the Western-girl horror stories until the game is funny again.

[Jaydublin]

I've been this way in general since around the time I joined the military at 19(got out at 24, 27 now). A lot of people just say stop being that way but it's not exactly a light switch.

[SVK]

Yeah, I've been feeling like this since I've been following manosphere - a kind of a jaded outlook. It's not a good thing at all. Especially since I don't live in that reality anymore at all - I'm in a LTR with a genuinely nice and decent, a bit conservative Eastern European girl who worships the ground I walk on and does anything for me. Manosphere induced outlook makes me act or talk like a dick quite often with people that don't deserve it or where it's not my place to say. I stopped following Roissy as it didn't bring any value into my life. I still read Roosh's blog here and there for entertainment value, but I try to not take it seriously (although I liked his recent interview with VK, he seems like a guy with the right attitude). The manosphere is really very similar to feminism in the way that they gather the worst examples of the opposite gender and feed it to you constantly. If all you see is the filth you can't help yourself but to become jaded. The simple truth is that many people are assholes, both men and women. And many people of both genders are good decent people. Focus on them and try to avoid the dicks and cunts.

I like the direction Mark Mason (aka Entropy) took with his Postmasculine.com blog where he delivers the red pill message and self improvement advice in a positive non-jaded way. Another good blog is marriedmansexlife.com, however it's main focus is how to keep the alpha ina committed long term relationship.

Anybody else has other examples of red pill message delivered in a positive, non-jaded way?

[Eddie Winslow]

(09-19-2012 01:56 PM)SVK Wrote:  

Anybody else has other examples of red pill message delivered in a positive, non-jaded way?

Bang and Day Bang truly are great if you've never read them. They really motivate me to get out and approach girls playfully everytime I re-read them.

Simple Pickup is 100% positive and relays a great message. Watch some of their videos or buy a $5 month worth of their pay-per-view stuff. I think they have a blog too. They are geared towards the younger crowd and act a little immature sometimes, but, as you can tell, so does my "friend #2." And married mothers in their 40s still chase him around DC.

Honestly, if you found a winner that you are 100% satisfied with and don't need any strange ass on the side, I'd say just give this red pill stuff a break until you need it again. I haven't seen the Matrix in a while, but I definitely don't remember Keanu Reeves being a bundle of smiles and joy after making his decision.

[tepes1406]

This post sounds so true to me!

I used to be like your 2nd friend, even though I have never been so blessed in the looks department.
I always joked around, teased girls and guys, had a general positive outlook on life.

Unfortunately, in the last period, things changed drastically: I became very attached to what people think about me, I started a new kind of "passive" game that consists in me hoping the girls will like me for my looks and, only then, take action (in most cases, not always). Therefore, I've taken a lot of steps backwards.

This post had a very positive effect on me. It remembered me of how I used to be not so much time ago and in which direction I have to go to return to this blessed state of unconditional love.

It's time to improve myself!

[Hades]

Negativity and bitterness sort of come from a sense of false promises or denied expectations. I don't know how to overcome this for sure, but you basically have to expect less from life and be happier when you experience something you could have not had.

Every time I feel like shit I just hit up one of my old friends on the phone, the guy who had almost everyone in his entire family die in sequence before he turned 15. Despite this he still pulls like a bastard. That always perks me up.

[Parlay44]

I started to envision women as little kids cause that's what the American female really is ...a 20 or 30 something high school girl.
You can't hold a kid responsible for their actions because they don't know any better. You have to learn to manage and deal with
them properly. If you start arguing and fighting with them you've already dropped to their level. They'll do anything to push your buttons and get you to flip out. They need to get an emotional reaction out of you. They feed off it. Emotional vampires they are Take the higher position and cut your losses and move on to the next girl. That's all I can tell you.

[Eddie Winslow]

(09-20-2012 07:12 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

You have to learn to manage and deal with
them properly. If you start arguing and fighting with them you've already dropped to their level. They'll do anything to push your buttons and get you to flip out.

I was listening to Jay-Z on my way to work this morning and heard some lyrics I never noticed before that made me hit replay about 15-20 times:

Jay-Z - Justify My Thug

They say an eye for an eye and we both lose our sight
And two wrongs don't make a right
But when you've been wronged and you know all along that it's just one life
At what point does one fight?
Good question right?

Yes it is.

In terms of this discussion, I think it's:

-When you are the direct victim of an extreme legal issue (divorce rape, false rape allegations, falsely accused of sexual harrassment, falsely accused of fondling metro passengers)
-When you are given a disease by a girlfriend who was cheating on you
-Uninstigated and/or excessively rude cockblocking or behavior (girls throwing punches, throwing drinks, or directly putting you down just for trying)

Not:
-When girls don't say thank you when you hold the door for them
-When you see fat chicks/short-haired chicks/spoiled celebrities who you don't even interact with
-When you are flaked on, rejected, resisted last minute, or have to listen idiotic female complaints
-When ANYTHING listed (first or second list) happens to someone besides YOU, except maybe absolute best friends or family members.

Even if you don't have an ounce of game, fighting back is (in my opinion) only necessary once in a blue moon. The rest of the bullshit is petty and does nothing but ruin your mood and image. Just do you.

[EasyMoney]

As someone new to the red pill, the negativity and sense of despair was heavy for me. I've always been a glass half empty person. I don't know why, my life hasn't been particularly difficult. Maybe its a brain chemistry thing, who knows for sure.

Reading Roissy's stuff at the chateau made me straight up fucking depressed. But I realized that was just my old way of looking at life crumbling. I was being forced to look at myself objectively, and be frank about how the value system and outlook that I had become emotionally invested in had failed to guide me to happiness.

The truth isn't pretty, but it does set you free.

If the manosphere/game/red pill/whatever you may call it has done anything for me, it's reminded me that you have to starve your ego to feed your soul. When presented with cold facts that I could look at in light of my own failures with women, the truth slapped me in the face. I had to put my blue pill bullshit aside and just admit defeat. And now I'm becoming a better man for it.

I realized its ok to be angry and negative and pissed off about some of this shit. It's natural and human. But ultimately, you can't hang on to it forever. It's not healthy.

[HoustonRookie]

(09-20-2012 07:12 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

I started to envision women as little kids cause that's what the American female really is ...a 20 or 30 something high school girl.
You can't hold a kid responsible for their actions because they don't know any better. You have to learn to manage and deal with
them properly. If you start arguing and fighting with them you've already dropped to their level. They'll do anything to push your buttons and get you to flip out. They need to get an emotional reaction out of you. They feed off it. Emotional vampires they are Take the higher position and cut your losses and move on to the next girl. That's all I can tell you.

This.

[Screwston]

(09-20-2012 07:12 AM)Parlay44 Wrote:  

I started to envision women as little kids cause that's what the American female really is ...a 20 or 30 something high school girl.
You can't hold a kid responsible for their actions because they don't know any better. You have to learn to manage and deal with
them properly. If you start arguing and fighting with them you've already dropped to their level. They'll do anything to push your buttons and get you to flip out. They need to get an emotional reaction out of you. They feed off it. Emotional vampires they are Take the higher position and cut your losses and move on to the next girl. That's all I can tell you.

[Giovonny]

(09-18-2012 06:55 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

I hear you man. It's just a rut

We all go through these. Its the time to think about what you really want, refocus your goals and redefine yourself.

(09-18-2012 06:55 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

I've been feeling a personal responsibility to fight back even though the bad behavior doesn't really affect me. I've been looking to go to war and it has made me negative. But it's not my fight to fight.

Reading all of this negativity can warp your perception. Remember that game sites tend to attract guys who have been unsuccessful in the sexual market. Their perception is not everyone's reality.

(09-18-2012 06:55 PM)americanbk Wrote:  

The purpose of this thread was to convince myself and any other angry RVFers to get back strictly to the basics - getting laid, making money, and living an exciting life - and quit getting emotionally involved with the fight against feminism.

Amen. I never understood guys argued with feminists. Feminists are often ugly, often delusional, and often lesbian. I don't see how arguing for "mens rights" is gonna help a guy get some pussy? It takes your focus off the most important thing - YOUR GAME! This is what guys should be focused on. Themselves. Ya, I said it. Focus on self-improvement. Get passionate about that. Get emotional about your own development!! Save the mens rights arguments for the guys who feel the need to do that.

[eveningdiary]

I read every post in this thread. It's a pretty damn good thread!

[solo]

I guess if you never had any negative experiences with girls and the all of a sudden started reading blogs and forums like this and then started having more negative expereinces and became more bitter, then yeah.

But myself I only started reading Roosh AFTER having already had shitty experiences of women and I didn't apply the red pill knowledge I had figured out for myself just by observing reality. I was still swimming around in blue pill world every time I met a new girl.

In other words, the empirical evidence came before the theory (that explains reality). Not the other way around. That's part of the reason I think Roosh and a lot of the posters on here are DEAD on most of the time even though it might get a bit exaggerated every now and then.

I get the point that you shouldn't expose yourself to negativity though, and it's a great point too. It's better to stay positive. Just sometimes it may be necessary to let off some frustrations and it's helpful to know other guys are drawing the same conclusions as myself.

Blogs like Rooshs' and Roissy's and forums like RVF, while I do have my reservations of some of their writings/actions, are pretty much the best thing that ever happend to men.

[Hannibal]

Just a heads up, my post is about why I started to be negative about women from what I saw day to day. If you're getting your negativity from Roissy or the manosphere, then I suggest you stop reading them for a couple weeks and see where your attitude goes. I've had to take a break from them every once in a while because reading all those blogs and shit is too much for me to handle and it doesn't actively help me get laid like approaching does.

I used to be really cynical and negative about women. Since I'm in Europe now, my attitude has gotten much better. The problem in America is not the women, it's the men. The men are weak, they're pussified, and the whole feminist culture has really gotten out of control. A lot of my hatred for women is really based in a hatred for the men that let them get away with that shit. You can't hate your neighbors dog for shitting on your lawn, you should hate your neighbor for not keeping the dog tied up in his yard.

I think you need to travel and get out of America for a while, if that's where you're at. In my college, I didn't have any real guy friends, since I viewed them all as pussies after learning the difference between alpha and beta. A lot of my guy friends back home are jealous of my successes with women, they hate me for it. I'm not even that successful, it's just that I try more than they do. I used to think there was something wrong with me, but I've since realized that these dudes were just too insecure to get over their own shortcomings, so they'd rather make me feel like shit to get on their level. Well, I take that back, I've got a couple really good friends but they don't live on my college campus anymore.

I've got all kinds of friends here, the men I relate best with are the Russians, since they don't let their women get away with stupid shit and they embody a lot of "positive masculinity" that I agree with. I'm not saying that you need guy friends to validate your opinions and existence, but it sure helps your attitude when you're not surrounded with beta schlumps who say/do things that make you vomit on the inside. I really hated life when all the people I hung out with at college were like "You've got to fight for her" and "tell her how you feel" and all that bullshit. I died a little on the inside every time I heard it. I quit trying to convince them otherwise, they just don't get it.

As far as women are concerned, there are a few good women out there, but it's really hard to find ones that haven't been corrupted to at least some degree. Pop music, romantic comedies, and the entire feminist culture really ruins a lot of otherwise good people, men and women alike. Thanks to that horseshit, I have a harder time relating with my peers and it gets increasingly lonely back home.

Since I grew up more or less beta, I've had to internalize that whole alpha-male mentality in order to acquire it, which is what screws me over. I'm far from perfect, but I'm always working on my game. I'll probably never be as good as Roosh, but I want to be a better version than what I could have been if I had never discovered game.

The natural alphas act like they're alpha, but they think solipsistically so they don't see what all the fuss is about with women. It also doesn't hurt them much to preach the blue pill, since they've been the embodiment of red pill since day one. The betas don't know what they're doing wrong, so they rationalize all kinds of stupid stuff, or they just hate women entirely. Then there's guys like me who did the research and observed their natural alpha friends in order to get laid like them. My beta friends grew increasingly frustrated with how I was doing and my alpha friends probably didn't care, so I lost a good amount of friends to that.

[PhilE]

(09-22-2012 06:25 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

Just a heads up, my post is about why I started to be negative about women from what I saw day to day. If you're getting your negativity from Roissy or the manosphere, then I suggest you stop reading them for a couple weeks and see where your attitude goes. I've had to take a break from them every once in a while because reading all those blogs and shit is too much for me to handle and it doesn't actively help me get laid like approaching does.

I used to be really cynical and negative about women. Since I'm in Europe now, my attitude has gotten much better. The problem in America is not the women, it's the men. The men are weak, they're pussified, and the whole feminist culture has really gotten out of control. A lot of my hatred for women is really based in a hatred for the men that let them get away with that shit. You can't hate your neighbors dog for shitting on your lawn, you should hate your neighbor for not keeping the dog tied up in his yard.

I think you need to travel and get out of America for a while, if that's where you're at. In my college, I didn't have any real guy friends, since I viewed them all as pussies after learning the difference between alpha and beta. A lot of my guy friends back home are jealous of my successes with women, they hate me for it. I'm not even that successful, it's just that I try more than they do. I used to think there was something wrong with me, but I've since realized that these dudes were just too insecure to get over their own shortcomings, so they'd rather make me feel like shit to get on their level. Well, I take that back, I've got a couple really good friends but they don't live on my college campus anymore.

I've got all kinds of friends here, the men I relate best with are the Russians, since they don't let their women get away with stupid shit and they embody a lot of "positive masculinity" that I agree with. I'm not saying that you need guy friends to validate your opinions and existence, but it sure helps your attitude when you're not surrounded with beta schlumps who say/do things that make you vomit on the inside. I really hated life when all the people I hung out with at college were like "You've got to fight for her" and "tell her how you feel" and all that bullshit. I died a little on the inside every time I heard it. I quit trying to convince them otherwise, they just don't get it.

As far as women are concerned, there are a few good women out there, but it's really hard to find ones that haven't been corrupted to at least some degree. Pop music, romantic comedies, and the entire feminist culture really ruins a lot of otherwise good people, men and women alike. Thanks to that horseshit, I have a harder time relating with my peers and it gets increasingly lonely back home.

Since I grew up more or less beta, I've had to internalize that whole alpha-male mentality in order to acquire it, which is what screws me over. I'm far from perfect, but I'm always working on my game. I'll probably never be as good as Roosh, but I want to be a better version than what I could have been if I had never discovered game.

The natural alphas act like they're alpha, but they think solipsistically so they don't see what all the fuss is about with women. It also doesn't hurt them much to preach the blue pill, since they've been the embodiment of red pill since day one. The betas don't know what they're doing wrong, so they rationalize all kinds of stupid stuff, or they just hate women entirely. Then there's guys like me who did the research and observed their natural alpha friends in order to get laid like them. My beta friends grew increasingly frustrated with how I was doing and my alpha friends probably didn't care, so I lost a good amount of friends to that.

Great Post and this is a good thread in general.

[Hannibal]

Actually, I should rephrase that. It's not that American men are weak, it's just that they don't know any better. Doesn't change the outcome though. It's still hypergamy hell.

[Eddie Winslow]

I recently picked up The Definitive Book of Body Language by Allan and Barbara Pease. I'm not done with it yet, but I did finish the chapter that is completely dedicated to smiling and laughing.

One part of this chapter explains that when you smile, it triggers electrical activity in the "happy zone" of your brain. Even when you are faking it or aren't particularly happy.

I've put this into practice the past few days and it has dramatically improved my mood and increased my confidence/energy levels. When I start to get pissed at people or think negative thoughts, I consciously remind myself to stop thinking that way, and then force a smile and/or chuckle at nothing in particular. I know this sounds like some hippie shit, but I can actually feel a quick surge of positve energy in my face that shoots down my body when I force myself to smile. Sounds obvious now, but once I read it in a book it made sense to me for some reason.

Smile RIGHT NOW. Do you feel a little bit better than a moment ago?