[mistermister]

rejoice fans of Robert Greene - new book this year.

http://www.amazon.com/Mastery-Robert-Gre...ds=mastery

48 laws of Power is by far one of the most important books i've ever read in my life. looking forward to all the media R. Greene will be doing to promote the book.


The eagerly anticipated new book from the author of the bestselling The 48 Laws of Power

What did Charles Darwin, middling schoolboy and underachieving second son, do to become one of the earliest and greatest naturalists the world has known? What were the similar choices made by Mozart and by Caesar Rodriguez, the U.S. Air Force’s last ace fighter pilot? In Mastery, Robert Greene’s fifth book, he mines the biographies of great historical figures for clues about gaining control over our own lives and destinies. Picking up where The 48 Laws of Power left off, Greene culls years of research and original interviews to blend historical anecdote and psychological insight, distilling the universal ingredients of the world’s masters.

Temple Grandin, Martha Graham, Henry Ford, Buckminster Fuller—all have lessons to offer about how the love for doing one thing exceptionally well can lead to mastery. Yet the secret, Greene maintains, is already in our heads. Debunking long-held cultural myths, he demonstrates just how we, as humans, are hardwired for achievement and supremacy. Fans of Greene’s earlier work and Malcolm Gladwell’s Outliers will eagerly devour this canny and erudite explanation of just what it takes to be great.

[Kitsune]

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

[Rah]

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

And everyone that reads game forums become alpha males drowning in pussy... what's your point. Information is valuable even if 99% of people who consume it don't put it into action.

[Roosh]

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

Gratuitous hater comment. Greene has put out a lot of good work. Looking forward to the book.

[Way Cool Jr]

I was curious about what Mr Greene was preparing...

Seems like a good book, I'm going to read some parts of it, guess that I will have to wait a lot for having it also in my native language.

I think that this work is going to be quite similar to the others and maybe not very useful if you already read his other books, but still I enjoy the writing style and the topics that Green covers.
So, let's try...

[Pacesetter20]

I love his book formats; one of the few books that I will get a physical copy of and not kindle edition.

[OGNorCal707]

Big fan of Greene's work here, read all of them except for the "33 Strategies of War", his books have had a huge impact on my views and perspectives on life. Thanks for the heads on this one, I will definitely be looking forward to checking it out.

[pitt]

I think greenes best work was the art of seduction, that book was classic.

Actually i have been looking for new books to read, i guess im buying this one soon.

[hypesession]

Looking forward to this. Robert Greene is a smart guy. He wrote The Art of Seduction and found a big market with both males and females.

And 48 Laws which sold over a million and found a niche market in prison inmates and hustlers which he explored with Curtis Jackson in the 50th law.

[Basil Ransom]

(09-04-2012 11:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

Gratuitous hater comment. Greene has put out a lot of good work. Looking forward to the book.

Does anyone have concrete examples of how they applied his work?

He's a fantastic writer, and always on point. But I have trouble thinking of times when his work has directly helped me, in the way that Roosh's or Roissy's blog does. That said, I've never really worked to apply his insights, partly because they're so abstract.

The great thing about his work, and The Art of Seduction in particular, is that it gives you a great mental framework for evaluating your own experiences. If nothing else, it trains you to be cynical, to see nothing as sacred or necessarily beyond comprehension.

The girl tells him in not so many words that he seems lame. The fact that he's probably not much of a seducer makes the feat of writing The Art of Seduction even more impressive. But it may also explain its detachment. Maybe Greene is a guy brilliant enough to understand his subjects without ever getting close to them.

[Mon]

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

Just like books about riding bikes made everyone master bike-riders. Just like reading books on surfing made everyone masters of surfing.

Fact is, just reading makes you only a master of reading. In the end, if you haven't put mind-to-muscle--made the rubber meet the road--you simply read a book.

Robert Anton Wilson wrote an introduction to the book, Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation and Other Devices, where he addressed the read-ONLY ilk. It went something (exactly) like this:
"Shortly after my manual of de-mechanization exercizes, Prometheus Rising, was published, I was at a Cosmic Con with, among others, E.J. Gold of the Fake Sufi School. He told me that nobody would do any of the exercizes in my book, but I would still get lots of letters from people saying the book had “liberated” them. Since I sometimes think Sufis and even Fake Sufis are perhaps overly skeptical about humanity in its present evolutionary stage, I have made a point of asking people, when they praise that book in my presence, how many of the exercizes they’ve done.

Most people look faintly abashed and admit they have only done a “few” of the exercizes (which probably means they haven’t done any). However, some people claim to have done all or most of the exercizes, and these people generally look so delighted about the matter that I tend to believe them. I therefore conclude that the Sufi and Gurdjieff traditions are wrong in saying that 999 out of 1000 will never work on the techniques of liberation. Actually, it appears to be only around 987 out of 1000 who prefer to talk about the work rather than doing it. At least 13 out of every 1000 will actually do the exercizes.

I have decided that one of the reasons that most readers of selfliberation books never even make the effort to liberate themselves is that reading the books is actually a kind of superstitious “magick ritual,” which they think will have an effect with no other effort on their parts. The same sort of superstition leads others to think that peeking at the answers in the back of the book of logical puzzles is as beneficial as solving the puzzles for themselves; and there is even a text out now with the answers to Zen koans, as if the answers, and not the process of arriving at them, were the meaning of Zen."

[Kitsune]

(09-04-2012 11:22 AM)Rah Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

And everyone that reads game forums become alpha males drowning in pussy... what's your point. Information is valuable even if 99% of people who consume it don't put it into action.

(09-04-2012 11:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Gratuitous hater comment. Greene has put out a lot of good work. Looking forward to the book.

(09-04-2012 05:16 PM)Mon Wrote:  

Just like books about riding bikes made everyone master bike-riders. Just like reading books on surfing made everyone masters of surfing.

Fact is, just reading makes you only a master of reading. In the end, if you haven't put mind-to-muscle--made the rubber meet the road--you simply read a book.

Robert Anton Wilson wrote an introduction to the book, [i]Undoing Yourself with Energized Meditation and Other Devices[/i[/b]

If you guys say I'm a hater, then I guess I must be.

To raise my objection though; Greene writes self help books. The success he has found is due to his writing, not his application of the laws he sets out.

The thing with Greene's work and other works like it is that it repackages common-sense wisdom, enough so that readers will think they've learned something at the end, yet vaguely enough so that they're never quite sure how or when to apply it. 48 laws of power is a bunch of contradictory advice meshed together with odd retellings of historical events. The two problems are thus: 1) The historical retellings conveniently fit the 'law' because that is the way he has re-written them. 2) They bear no relation to the audience other than in a fist-bumping 'I encounter the same situations as an ancient chinese emporer!' way. The celebrities that endorse the book are already successful without having read it - they backwards rationalise its relevance in the same way that Oprah thinks "The Secret" is key to her success years after she was already a billionairess.


I mean, the next book might be interesting. I'm dubious though. Things like:

Quote:

Temple Grandin, Martha Graham, Henry Ford, Buckminster Fuller—all have lessons to offer about how the love for doing one thing exceptionally well can lead to mastery. Yet the secret, Greene maintains, is already in our heads. Debunking long-held cultural myths, he demonstrates just how we, as humans, are hardwired for achievement and supremacy.

Really? All these extremely successful people have explained their success; but they've missed the key ingredient that a self-help writer just happens to have come across? Ok. And I guess those ads that say "The one secret to getting six-pack abs in three days" also have that key ingredient that sports scientists and bodybuilders haven't worked out. And empires wouldn't have crumbled except for one action.

That and 'we are hard-wired for supremacy.' Who is? and over what? I can't bear the 'Magic bullet' marketing, the vaguely relevant historical anecdotes and the even vaguer possible applications.

The book talks about Buckminster-Fuller, Mozart, Darwin, Ford etc. But what are the bets the lessons are actually going to be "Already have a superior native intellect," "Have parents that pressure you into being a child prodigy while you're too young to realise," "Work harder than everyone else" and "Be in the right place at the right time," as opposed to "Leverage the people around you," "Don't be what other people want you to be," "Find your passion," and "Tread paths untrodden" and other feel-good, vague 'lessons'?

Not all information is of equal worth, and it doesn't matter if 1% or 90% apply information if that information isn't really applicable.

[polymath]

I agree with Kitsune. I got nothing out of The Art of Seduction, and the 48 Laws of Power struck me as just a bunch of ideas that are so numerous that they are too vague to be useful.

Two criticisms of TAoS:

First, I think practical advice is better than flowery statements like "enter their spirit" and "poeticize your presence." This advice just seems completely useless and unclear. I would never want to "stir anxiety and discontent," but rather I would want to evoke it naturally with my absence. I want a girl to feel my social presence when I am speaking, to be so impressed by my vibe that she wants to compliment me and swoon over me and take care of me. Why would I waste my time intentionally making her feel anxious in my presence? I benefit more from exciting her. Also, the "demonic power of words" is a pretty phrase but words are not demonic, even when powerful. Greene comes across as a guy who can write but sometimes uses his ability to write as a surrogate for actually saying something meaningful.

Second, why would I trust Greene? He's not a player or ladies' man. I don't even consider Greene to be seductive, aside from the seductive nature of his books; he sells people on the idea of becoming seductive, powerful masters. He's a good writer but I think people like Juggler, Mystery, and others who speak from experience are the only ones whose advice is worth studying. Not everyone can write a popular book about seducing others, but that doesn't mean that Greene is magically a seducer just because he sells these books.

On the topic of the new book, Mastery.....Greene isn't a guy whom I would consider a master. He's good at selling self-help books. Is he a master because of that?

Roosh, I know you have experience with haters but that doesn't mean every sarcastic criticism is rooted in malice. Sometimes the guy getting torn down is actually made of hype.

To put it pithily, I prefer to learn from an expert than a guy who knows how to write. Greene even wrote a book where he took concepts from warfare and applied them to socializing. I think that's arrogant. What does he know about warfare?

[painter]

I don't think these are really marketed as self help. Give the guy credit for coming up with an entertaining format he's used to write four books. I prefer histories and biographies so these are right up my alley. His books have a ton of useful information and will introduce you to great characters, times, and places in history. Don't dismiss them because you read it and weren't transformed into Julius Caesar or Casanova, that's not the point.

[Walderschmidt]

The point of these books is to inspire you to greatness - not to give a step by step path. There is not step to step path to greatness - but if one follows certain principles and has a hunger - anything is possible.

[RawGod]

The guy better not put in one more anecdote about P.T. Barnum in his new book. Seriously, he seems to have half a dozen biographies on his desk and just chops up their contents.

You're much better off reading "The Art of War" and "The Prince".

[SnakeEyes]

(09-04-2012 03:51 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 11:27 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 11:11 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

Yay I guess when this 9.99 book comes out everyone will all be masters of everything... just like 48 laws made everyone powerful.

Gratuitous hater comment. Greene has put out a lot of good work. Looking forward to the book.

Does anyone have concrete examples of how they applied his work?

He's a fantastic writer, and always on point. But I have trouble thinking of times when his work has directly helped me, in the way that Roosh's or Roissy's blog does. That said, I've never really worked to apply his insights, partly because they're so abstract.

The great thing about his work, and The Art of Seduction in particular, is that it gives you a great mental framework for evaluating your own experiences. If nothing else, it trains you to be cynical, to see nothing as sacred or necessarily beyond comprehension.

[video=youtub]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_USBCFQzXM[/video]

The girl tells him in not so many words that he seems lame. The fact that he's probably not much of a seducer makes the feat of writing The Art of Seduction even more impressive. But it may also explain its detachment. Maybe Greene is a guy brilliant enough to understand his subjects without ever getting close to them.

His work is especially applicable in today's office environment. I work in a team consisting of two supervisors, one with 30 years experience and one with 5-years experience. Then, there is me being a new hire of under one year with 3 other co-workers (3 women) similar to me.

The principals about how to treat my seniors (kings in old days) at my job has allowed to me receive benefits that my co-workers have not gotten. I have received extra time off on short notice, extra per diem/allowances, and generally better reviews and treatment at the office.

For example, I always ask my boss questions and pick his brain. The book explains that this allows him to feel like the boss and solidifies the boss - employee relationship (king - courtier, in old days). I defer to his expertise when I need to. I don't act as if I'm a grand master of my job with less than one-year experience. I will sometimes be cocky funny, saying jokes like "well, if I get done early you can just send me home!". I always say them with a smile on my face and knowing that he won't send me home early.

Now, counter the last paragraph with two of my female co-workers. They routinely attempt to diminish my boss' experience with smart ass comments, attempt to talk down to him (in their "smart" way), and basically act in a superior manner. They receive less than stellar treatment from my boss, do not receive lax treatment of office rules, do not receive special treatment for per diem/allowances, and sometimes receive less than glowing reviews. I'll let you ponder about their physical appearance.

The other female co-worker dresses nicely and has a professional appearance, but I am noticing that she has become drawn into the misgivings of the other two women. She has lost her femininity and sweetness in my opinion, and I believe it has now affected her job performance and job satisfaction.

On the downside, the women have noticed my somewhat special treatment and are starting to despise it. The book addresses this, but I find it personally hard to get along with women of this nature. I do my best to stay amicable though.

[Roosh]

Basil: Greene is the ultimate keyboard jockey in the sense that he's not writing from experience. He's a researcher so he pulls these examples out of history and then repackages them in an entertaining way. The value in his books is that it sets the alpha mood while giving you ideas and motivation. The books don't give you a direct path, but they do give a helping hand. The 50th Law didn't have any action items, but when I read that I was motivated to get shit done.

[Screwston]

Are all of his books worth checking out or only 48?

[dandylion]

Expected him to be flashier for some reason, given how well he writes. Reminds me of a collegiate English professor.

[JofSuperman]

Greene's books are great to read, but short on real world practicability.

[ColSpanker]

(09-10-2012 05:59 AM)JofSuperman Wrote:  

Greene's books are great to read, but short on real world practicability.

I'd have to second that statement. I bought 48 LAWS (from a Boarders no less) when it first came out and thought I'd found the secret to the universe. After 2 years of unsuccessfully applying it, the book was consigned to file 13. I'd still give it a read, just don't go treating the thing like the Koran.

[void]

it always boils down to the free will:
- most evidence at the moment points to the fact, that we indeed have no free will and our mind is more like an operating system, call it Linux
- from a science standpoint it would be deterministic

-> if you want to change the way your operating system behaves, you have to configure the kernel.
in our mind this are believes like "everyone loves me", "i feel confident because....", "i am intelligent", "i am beautiful"

-> this believes can be changed with action and feedback aka behavioral conditioning, hypnosis, affirmations?
Example: You can do a sport that makes you feel confident and comfortable with your body, or you could reenact a confident and comfortable body language to induce a feeling of confidence and comfortablity. what is more difficult? i think reenacting things

-> So if we can change our fundamental believes, we will act and think accordingly, which will strengthen this believes
-> The hardest part is to start this positive feedback loop.
-> Usually its easier to start with small tasks with a direct (positive) feedback. this is were every "advise book" should start.
Best example is Rooshs guide to manhood, do lifting etc

PS: Bios is like "I need to survive" and "I need to reproduce" and our very basic motivation.

[mistermister]

books out... grabbing it today. loving all the media and interviews around it.

here's a good one

Bestselling Author Robert Greene joins Media Mayhem and discusses his famous Laws of Power and how they are used and abused by the entertainment and business worlds.
We talk about the Hollywood elite, working with 50 Cent and if Romney and Obama earn the title of masters, along with how to achieve success by not listening to your parents.

[Stitch]

Greene's books aren't bad, but I would regard them as entertainment rather than prescriptive. The problem with "48 Laws" isn't the idea that there are lots of laws to power and some anecdotes to illustrate them, but that the impression it gives that there are 48 of them and if you forget any you are doomed to failure; it's unactionable. That doesn't make it a bad book at all, just an entertaining one rather than helpful.

But then, most "self-help" books are this way: surveys of feel-good ideas that cover a lot of ground and promise success. I get a great deal more out of very focused books that have one or two key ideas backed up by data and observation. For the idea of mastery, Dan Coyle's "The Talent Code" is great; Carol Dweck's "Mindset" is another example of a focused topic, and Roy Baumeister's "Willpower" is extremely good as well (one of the best books I've read in the last year or so probably).

That doesn't mean I think Green's books aren't worth reading... I just don't find them useful.