[The Fantasist]

(09-02-2012 09:10 AM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Vorkuta coudl you expand on this?

Woudl you go as far as to say for a D2 or D3 an expensive restaurant would increase your bang probability in Ukraine and FSU?

I've been forwarned that you have to treat these FSU girls more traditionally, less game and more alpha gentleman, paying for drinks etc but would you reccommend splurging cash on them before they've put out?

I have little experience with Ukrainians so can't speak for them,I'm talking about my experiences with Russians.

Yes you need to treat them more traditionally,much more so then in the West. You can't invite a Russian girl on a date in Russia and suggest splitting the bill. And believe me,she won't offer to go halves either. It's not done like that. The man pays if he is any kind of a man over there. In a way this is a pain in the ass since it costs more then dating in the West,however there is a great advantage to it to in my experience and that is that the rules of the game dictate that in return is she won't go on a second date with you if she is not DTF you. So yes you might have to pay for two dates with a girl BUT the fact that she has been on those dates means she will let you fcuk her. Note how I say 'let you'. That is because in my experience sex is seen more as a transaction for future gain or reward for services rendered in Russia,rather then two people mutually wanting the bang. So you buy the drinks,the dinner,the night out but in return she knows she has a moral duty to let you fuck her. To go on the dates but not put out would make her a whore in her own eyes. But in Russia there is a thin line between dating and whoredom,the player and the played. The way to keep things cheap is to hit poorer towns where there are no expensive options,that way taking her to the best restaurant won't break the budget but you still treated her and kept within the rules of the dating game.

If I have not gotten something from a Russian girl on a second date 99% of the time I know I won't ever get it and I move on.

[avantgarde]

(09-02-2012 10:24 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 09:10 AM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Vorkuta coudl you expand on this?

Woudl you go as far as to say for a D2 or D3 an expensive restaurant would increase your bang probability in Ukraine and FSU?

I've been forwarned that you have to treat these FSU girls more traditionally, less game and more alpha gentleman, paying for drinks etc but would you reccommend splurging cash on them before they've put out?

I have little experience with Ukrainians so can't speak for them,I'm talking about my experiences with Russians.

Yes you need to treat them more traditionally,much more so then in the West. You can't invite a Russian girl on a date in Russia and suggest splitting the bill. And believe me,she won't offer to go halves either. It's not done like that. The man pays if he is any kind of a man over there. In a way this is a pain in the ass since it costs more then dating in the West,however there is a great advantage to it to in my experience and that is that the rules of the game dictate that in return is she won't go on a second date with you if she is not DTF you. So yes you might have to pay for two dates with a girl BUT the fact that she has been on those dates means she will let you fcuk her. Note how I say 'let you'. That is because in my experience sex is seen more as a transaction for future gain or reward for services rendered in Russia,rather then two people mutually wanting the bang. So you buy the drinks,the dinner,the night out but in return she knows she has a moral duty to let you fuck her. To go on the dates but not put out would make her a whore in her own eyes. But in Russia there is a thin line between dating and whoredom,the player and the played. The way to keep things cheap is to hit poorer towns where there are no expensive options,that way taking her to the best restaurant won't break the budget but you still treated her and kept within the rules of the dating game.

If I have not gotten something from a Russian girl on a second date 99% of the time I know I won't ever get it and I move on.

So seriously no pussy if u don't pay for dates even just once? Can't u at least make her pay for something? IF you date her, how would u make her pay something?

[The Duke]

In the Russian-speaking part of Ukraine, a date might just be getting beer at a pub. And I'm talking about cheap beer. After two hours of "sitting" at the pub as they put it, I say "would you like to see where I live?" Escalate once in your flat.

Vorkuta, one Ukrainian-Russian girl took eight dates to bang, but yeah I generally agree with your comment. And maybe true Russians are sluttier than Ukrainian-Russians.

[Greek kamaki]

(09-02-2012 08:57 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 07:53 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

One thing I would do is ball a bit to get to the place I need to be and then settle into my budget later.

That is something I swear by in the FSU,dropping big in the beginning. Women there are searching for a man of means,and they do so far more aggressively then in Western Europe. In the west we tend to seduce and then when we've been with a girl for a while and we think she has earned it we might give them a treat in appreciation for their efforts or as a token of love,however you want to put it.

Russians are different. They want to know at the very beginning if you have the wealth she seeks and more importantly that you are willing to show it. So you have to drop big in the beginning,go to that nice restaurant,hit the expensive club etc. to show that you can do those things should you want to. That's enough
for the girl,she doesn't need or expect you to do it all the time after that,she merely wants to know you can and if the occasion is right,will.

Exactly.They like generous men.Generosity is much appreciated among Russians(abudant sex from the side of the girl,abudant material offers from the side of the man).There is no limit or measure in this,Russians hate to measure.(Germans always measure reward to expenses).

[el mechanico]

(09-02-2012 08:50 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

In SEA, Cuba, Dominican Republic, I've seen tons of men IKE's age and a lot older walking around hand in hand with their young, nubile girlfriends. Some with their kids too. Perhaps a change of destination is in order for IKE.

I was going to suggest that as well. Go to the DR and get a decent pad. Keep some beers in the fridge and let all of us forum guys visit with girls. The place is very popular with us ya know.

[Aliblahba]

(09-02-2012 05:05 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:50 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

In SEA, Cuba, Dominican Republic, I've seen tons of men IKE's age and a lot older walking around hand in hand with their young, nubile girlfriends. Some with their kids too. Perhaps a change of destination is in order for IKE.

I was going to suggest that as well. Go to the DR and get a decent pad. Keep some beers in the fridge and let all of us forum guys visit with girls. The place is very popular with us ya know.

Yeah we could turn IKE into a rockstar down here within a month. El, emech and I have so much pussy here we can't even get to it all. Damn if we don't try though.

C'mon IKE, we're waiting.

[Roosh]

I can confirm that the mentality is backwards.

Bang Ukraine should be out by the end of the year.

[el mechanico]

At this point I'm considering the DR to be the RVF home turf. It's not a hard place for a smart bunch of Gringos to spin a huge web.

[Aliblahba]

(09-02-2012 08:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

At this point I'm considering the DR to be the RVF home turf. It's not a hard place for a smart bunch of Gringos to spin a huge web.

I know girls in at least 6 cities. I could bring IKE along and have the girl bring a friend. They always do. All these dudes have to do is show up.

Life is too short to spend in cold ass countries where you're not getting laid. The older you get, the harder it is to expend energy and resources to get bangs. I still like a challenge, but ain't gonna break my neck over getting laid.

[el mechanico]

(09-02-2012 08:05 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

At this point I'm considering the DR to be the RVF home turf. It's not a hard place for a smart bunch of Gringos to spin a huge web.

I know girls in at least 6 cities. I could bring IKE along and have the girl bring a friend. They always do. All these dudes have to do is show up.

Life is too short to spend in cold ass countries where you're not getting laid. The older you get, the harder it is to expend energy and resources to get bangs. I still like a challenge, but ain't gonna break my neck over getting laid.

Yes.

[iknowexactly]

(09-02-2012 05:30 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 05:05 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:50 AM)Gaston Wrote:  

In SEA, Cuba, Dominican Republic, I've seen tons of men IKE's age and a lot older walking around hand in hand with their young, nubile girlfriends. Some with their kids too. Perhaps a change of destination is in order for IKE.

I was going to suggest that as well. Go to the DR and get a decent pad. Keep some beers in the fridge and let all of us forum guys visit with girls. The place is very popular with us ya know.

Yeah we could turn IKE into a rockstar down here within a month. El, emech and I have so much pussy here we can't even get to it all. Damn if we don't try though.

C'mon IKE, we're waiting.

Thanks for all the suggestions and encouragement to think positively.

That's right nice of you to offer to wing in DR.
I am easily influenced by suggestions of adventure. I'm going to start working up a budget.

A harrowing adventure with El Mech alienating x% of people with his hilarious badass attitude, but fucking all the girls. Now THAT's living!!!

I used to joke with friends, telling them if they'd learn game they'd get "more pussy than Frank Sinatra". Later I changed it to "Snoop Dog."

Frank came into a restaurant owned by a close friend of mine. Frank asked how many people worked there, the friend said "About 30", and Franks told his assistant to give the friend $600; "Everybody gets a $20 tip." The friend told me this personally, it is true.

[iknowexactly]

(09-01-2012 01:37 PM)MrXY Wrote:  

IKE, what did you tell the girls you were doing there?

I told them the partial truth, that I was working on independent film projects there.

Certain parts of Eastern Europe are just ready-made and waiting ( at very low cost) for you to make amazing, atmospheric films. The texture and haunting beauty of the places, as well as for me the deep sadness of all the tragedy that's happened in the last 100 years and more, make these places very visually resonant.
I don't want to sound vampiristic or like some kind of vulture; but the city I was in had half its civilian population killed-- hundreds of thousands of people-- in WW2. Of course I would change that if I could, but the result benefits me as an artist-- it makes people more serious, deeper; not like the twittering sorority chicks that think they are the end-all of Creation in Murka.

THEN, you can VERY easily get 9+ girls to act in your projects-- in LA it is much harder-- that type is already making money off her looks somehow and they are hardened, impatient, and , well, Murkan.

The UkeChix are still capable of emotion. Americans are like robots.

[iknowexactly]

(09-01-2012 01:49 PM)AWOLNomad Wrote:  

These are the issues I dont seem to read about so much. Dealing with landlords that are trying to fuck you over left and right.

I'm afraid I'm being a bit of a whiner about those things, but I thought it would benefit readers to understand business is done a lot differently in these economically fucked up countries. I believe the lack of trust is a BIG part of why they have much less wealth.

It is just SO much less efficient when you have to double-check EVERYTHING someone tells you for truth.
It also explains why trusted friends are so hugely valuable in that kind of place.

But those landlord problems really didn't take up that big a percentage of my time. It's just I was blindsided by them. These people weren't nightmares, they were fairly cordial, just a lot different.

Most of the problem was just me not approaching enough, and possibly not being persistent enough-- escalating hard. Partly due to shyness, partly due to depression and general disorientation.

[iknowexactly]

(09-02-2012 06:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

I can confirm that the mentality is backwards.

Bang Ukraine should be out by the end of the year.

Sorry if I missed what you're referring to-- which mentality is backwards, in what way?

[chochemonger1]

(09-04-2012 12:03 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

(09-01-2012 01:49 PM)AWOLNomad Wrote:  

These are the issues I dont seem to read about so much. Dealing with landlords that are trying to fuck you over left and right.

I'm afraid I'm being a bit of a whiner about those things, but I thought it would benefit readers to understand business is done a lot differently in these economically fucked up countries. I believe the lack of trust is a BIG part of why they have much less wealth.

It is just SO much less efficient when you have to double-check EVERYTHING someone tells you for truth.
It also explains why trusted friends are so hugely valuable in that kind of place.

But those landlord problems really didn't take up that big a percentage of my time. It's just I was blindsided by them. These people weren't nightmares, they were fairly cordial, just a lot different.

Most of the problem was just me not approaching enough, and possibly not being persistent enough-- escalating hard. Partly due to shyness, partly due to depression and general disorientation.

Thanks for your honesty IKE. Been in a South American shithole for 5 years, so those problems in Ukraine would seem very small to me. But yes, at a certain age, I could see it getting tiresome and irritating as hell. So, my friend, do try going to SE Asia, especially a 2nd tier city in the Philippines, by the beach. All those shitty problems and depression, that you have encountered, will vanish with the sound of the waves, the warm climate and the young girls who will still treat you as a desirable man. Don´t give up yet.

[Antipodean]

IKE, I can relate to most of what you are saying.

I am around your age, though I seem to get away with saying I'm early 40's.
I have begun to realise that younger girls/women have little perception of exact age beyond 35 to 40, unless you look to them like their grandfather.

I have been traveling around the EE region last year and this year, but only in summertime and not settling in any one place for long.

I have just taken an apartment here in Kiev for a short term and (reluctantly) paid a security deposit. We'll see how that works out.

Also, can confirm Choche's advice.
I spent 5 weeks in Phil and Thailand earlier this year, with significant success.
Just stay generally clear of the expat sex tourist areas.

[Antipodean]

(09-02-2012 08:05 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(09-02-2012 08:03 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

At this point I'm considering the DR to be the RVF home turf. It's not a hard place for a smart bunch of Gringos to spin a huge web.

I know girls in at least 6 cities. I could bring IKE along and have the girl bring a friend. They always do. All these dudes have to do is show up.

Life is too short to spend in cold ass countries where you're not getting laid. The older you get, the harder it is to expend energy and resources to get bangs. I still like a challenge, but ain't gonna break my neck over getting laid.

Wow. That's a tempting offer. What is a good time of the year for DR?

[The Duke]

I agree that SEA and parts of Latin America are great for easy pussy. FSU countries are about very high visual quality. Maybe IKE has very high standards. If so, I respect that.

(09-01-2012 11:34 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Landlord problems were also pretty bad and unexpected.

I've had my share of landlord issues in various countries. Luckily for Ukraine, I've been 2-for-2 with excellent landlords. I recommend bringing a local with you and having him/her handle the initial interaction with the landlord. One time when looking at possible places to rent, my girlfriend said "I feel a bad vibe from this landlord" and we moved on.

[chochemonger1]

(09-04-2012 09:58 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

I agree that SEA and parts of Latin America are great for easy pussy. FSU countries are about very high visual quality. Maybe IKE has very high standards. If so, I respect that.

(09-01-2012 11:34 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Landlord problems were also pretty bad and unexpected.

I've had my share of landlord issues in various countries. Luckily for Ukraine, I've been 2-for-2 with excellent landlords. I recommend bringing a local with you and having him/her handle the initial interaction with the landlord. One time when looking at possible places to rent, my girlfriend said "I feel a bad vibe from this landlord" and we moved on.

Duke I agree totally that FSU girls are hotter than SE Asian girl and most Latin American girls (though, just see any Miss Universe contest and you can see that the high end girls in countries such as Brazil, Colombia and Venezuela are equal or above to them). But that is not the point. The reason we travel is to bang or have a relationship with a quality foreign girl, not just to see. So it doesnt matter, if the average girl on the street is 1 or 2 points higher than in other regions of the world, if you arent getting what you want.
Also in SEA and some Latin countries, IKE still has access to many young women who are 6 or 7´s. If he is lucky he might even land an 8. From what he has related to us, that was not the case for him in the FSU.

[brianmark]

(09-01-2012 11:34 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

I am back in Northern California after 6 months in Ukraine and a few weeks in Poland. I am white, 5'9", 180 (fat with some muscle) and mid-50's.

I was going through money too fast, unwilling to live within my $1100 independent monthly income --even though it was possible, I was just too sloppy.

Twenties chicks for the most part would not easily go for me, via internet they all think they have a boyfriend in Western Europe, who is of course scamming them for the most part-- visits, fucks them, strings them along. However, I did meet a very smart 6 who had a Spanish guy paying for her to "go to school" in Spain which would get a visa she could leverage into permanently staying. They also have local boyfriends if they are 8+. However, I did go on dates with cheerleader hot, petite chicks from 20-26; which type would run for the hills screaming "uncool! old guy!" if I hit on them here.

Coming back from there, I unexpectedly ended up rooming with some Ivy League chick grads who were about 27. It was really hard for me to believe how bizarre their thinking was after being in Eastern Europe. They were like missionaries for environmental causes, and actually were angry at me because I was largely apolitical. They had a strange absolute certainty they were right about everything. They discussed trafficking of women in Asia. One was huge, maybe 220. She referred to drug-fueled violence she saw in a rural bar as a "male thing"; and she and her roommate referred to guys commonly as "jerks" when the guys did not act as they saw fit.

They showed the complete lack of interest and lack of questions Roosh describes, even though I was a world traveler and had many lifetime experiences they would have benefited from. They seemed like robots to me after Slavic women.

I am going to work another year, which should bring my monthly income up to about $1400/month. This will also be enough in rural Italy ( I know its not enough for Milan) or Poland where I eventually want to settle.

No flag, but my game sucks and I was quite overwhelmed by the huge culture shock and, unexpectedly, the large dietary changes in Ukraine.

Landlord problems were also pretty bad and unexpected. In one apartment the militia showed up because the electric bill hadn't been paid. It turned out they were at the wrong apartment, but having 4 people knock at your door, two of them uniformed, was quite unsettling.

Then when I complained about the microwave being dead, the landlord said it must have been that I turned it on with nothing in it, and wanted me to pay for the microwave that had never worked.

It's not even that they're trying to rip you off, they are just literally incapable of modern, rational thought -- they think in some sort of weird voodoo causality. "I bought a microwave and it worked at one time, now it doesn't so it must be this tenants fault."

Everyone expects bad service and dishonesty, and that has a lot of follow-on effects such as friends not being supportive when you get ripped off etc; simply because it is an everyday fact of life.

Worst of all the microwave was a Ukrainian brand, many products you buy in Ukraine not only break quickly, but they do not even do the task INITIALLY that they are purported to do. The idea that I was responsible was pretty laughable.

In the other apartment I lived in, despite insisting with the agent that I needed an apartment with good hot water there was really none. The landlady tried to get me to buy a new hot water heater.

The saving grace was my loyal Polish-Ukrainian maid, who had a plumber friend who was a Jehovah's Witness. I avoid them in the states, but he was a straight shooter who cleaned out the old hot water heater cheaply.

The landlady cleverly delayed my attempts to test the hot water when initially viewing aparttment, saying they would turn it on when I moved in. NEVER, NEVER believe something like that.

I need a high protein diet but don't eat red meat and it was somewhat hard to do in Ukraine until I found the delicious home-made cottage cheese sold at markets. There is nothing like in Murka.

I don't want to comment on the girls because my official position is that Giant Unsanitary Refrigerator Ukraine is a horrible place.

While I was in a western Ukrainian city, I googled online for some store information and I started to find my posts from here showing up in the first few hits on Google, so I do not want to popularize where I went.

I guess the main point I have is that it can be hard just getting a physically comfortable place to stay where you aren't hassled in some way.

Getting in shape and going a lot harder would be important too.

Italy is not good. Do not go there. Italian girls are not interested in American men. Even the Italian guys can't get Italian GFs!

[Wayout]

IKE, thank you for sharing your experiences. Don't listen to 16 year olds on here who are living in the basement and have their whole life ahead of them!

I too am approaching the age where I need to think about kids and family. Procreation is our sole purpose on this planet.

I am not worried. You can easily have a kid with a young woman ( or several women) in countries like Cuba, Brazil, SE Asia just like someone mentined on here. I have been to those countries and saw with my own eyes how easy it is to pull off. Do you like Asian or Latin girls?

I don't like non white girls,so I am thinking of going to Poland myself. I would stay away from FSU countries - women there are blunt and materialistic! I lived there, I know!
Hope you find what you looking for!

[chochemonger1]

(09-04-2012 08:50 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

IKE, thank you for sharing your experiences. Don't listen to 16 year olds on here who are living in the basement and have their whole life ahead of them!

I too am approaching the age where I need to think about kids and family. Procreation is our sole purpose on this planet.

I am not worried. You can easily have a kid with a young woman ( or several women) in countries like Cuba, Brazil, SE Asia just like someone mentined on here. I have been to those countries and saw with my own eyes how easy it is to pull off. Do you like Asian or Latin girls?

I don't like non white girls,so I am thinking of going to Poland myself. I would stay away from FSU countries - women there are blunt and materialistic! I lived there, I know!
Hope you find what you looking for!

It is funny how race trolls are banned in this forum. But I still cant understand how some guys, who say they dont like a woman of a certain race, are not doing the same shit and are allowed to go on. I understand preferences---- so two 7s of a different race...one might ignight different reactions in men with varying tastes. But cmon.....I dont like Indian girls, but if I can bang one who is a 9, I will prefer her in bed over a Ukranian 7.

[The Duke]

(09-04-2012 11:07 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

It is funny how race trolls are banned in this forum. But I still cant understand how some guys, who say they dont like a woman of a certain race, are not doing the same shit and are allowed to go on.

I personally like American women. When Roosh talks shit about American women, it makes me feel bad. (Joke)

Sometimes talking about race can lead to flame wars. Saying shit about women usually doesn't lead to flame wars here, because there are essentially no women on these forums. I think there's some valuable knowledge there when a guy says "be careful of women from this country because of this". "Girls here are short and ugly". "This city is filled with pros". That's info I want.

Nobody is complaining about the way FSU girls look. People like to bash how they behave. I dont think these comments necessarily apply to me, although I find them interesting and maybe in a different context they would apply to me (had a different style, didn't pay for things like taxis, etc). I personally have had good experiences with Ukrainian women, but when others don't, I like to know.

[chochemonger1]

(09-05-2012 06:10 AM)The Duke Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 11:07 PM)chochemonger1 Wrote:  

It is funny how race trolls are banned in this forum. But I still cant understand how some guys, who say they dont like a woman of a certain race, are not doing the same shit and are allowed to go on.

I personally like American women. When Roosh talks shit about American women, it makes me feel bad. (Joke)

Sometimes talking about race can lead to flame wars. Saying shit about women usually doesn't lead to flame wars here, because there are essentially no women on these forums. I think there's some valuable knowledge there when a guy says "be careful of women from this country because of this". "Girls here are short and ugly". "This city is filled with pros". That's info I want.

Nobody is complaining about the way FSU girls look. People like to bash how they behave. I dont think these comments necessarily apply to me, although I find them interesting and maybe in a different context they would apply to me (had a different style, didn't pay for things like taxis, etc). I personally have had good experiences with Ukrainian women, but when others don't, I like to know.

Duke, I dont mind when men say shit about women (i.e me about Ecuador), talk about their preferences, and share their opinions and knowledge. Just when I hear absurd absolute statements from someone like "I don´t like non white women" it boggles my mind.
Makes me think a man is ignorant. I understand a man can have a preference for Europeans, Asians, Latinas but if a 7, 8 or 9 of a race you dont like is offering, it would be sheer stupidity not to hit it.

[el mechanico]

Choche 99% of my friends my entire life wont even look at non white women. I was checking out this thick black girl in the store with my boy the other day and he was shocked that I told him I wanted her and talked about it the rest of the day.

I thought IKE didn't like them much either and chose the Ukraine route.