[BetaSteve]

So I just finished the Way of Men by Jack Donovan. I highly recommend you fellows check it out. Roosh recommended it in one of his posts here

http://www.rooshv.com/more-book-reviews-12

Right now the kindle edition of the book will run you about $6.

I have been searching for a book like this for a long time. Donovan really breaks down masculinity to definable terms. He cites the difference between a "good man" and "being good at being a man." It is very refreshing, given how many articles are floating with feminists trying to define masculinity.

You could probably quote 25% of the book. Seriously check it out. You won't regret it.

[Cincinnatus]

Thanks for seconding Roosh's recommendation, it's been on my reading list for a while and I simply haven't gotten around to it, already having so many books unread.

For sure going to pick this up, though.

[BLarsen]

Got the Kindle edition last week. It's been at the top of my recommendations list for months, but I never bit b/c i thought it was another self-help type book. It's not!

Some of my highlights:

"Another problem with the complete intellectualization of masculinity is that intellectualized masculinity is pretty much equally accessible to women. Demonstrating your manliness to other men doesn't mean much if women are doing all of the same things that men are doing."

"Until you can function as a competent member of the group and carry your own weight, you are a supplicant and a drag on the collective. A child is a child, but an incompetent adult is a beggar."

"Even today, many men will jump at the opportunity to harm a man who harms a female stranger. Because of this, many women can be assertive or make displays of gameness with relative impunity, and some become delusional about their ability to make good on their threats or defend themselves if their taunts result in violence."

"Accepting the nature of men as it is and offering them equivalents to war is no longer acceptable to women or globalists. Their shared agenda has become the complete repudiation of the idea that men should want to do the things they’ve been selected to do."

[Stitch]

Good read. Not amazing, but I'd recommend it, and haven't found anything else quite like it.

[HoustonRookie]

I'd second the recommendation for this book. It really gets down to the root of what makes men men. I found the beginning of the book to be more informative than the end, but overall it is a short read and a good one.

[Hencredible Casanova]

Just got this for the kindle and I'm almost finished. Good read.

[Hades]

I think I'll buy it and read it on the plane trip back.

[EisenBarde]

Not to disparage, but I read on some blog of a supposed friend of Jack Donovan that says he is a homosexual who has written one of the best books describing masculinity.

If that's the case, it would be interesting to read his perspective in slight contrast to one which takes the paradigm in the more biological mass reproduction sense.

[Belgrano]

(12-15-2012 02:27 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

Not to disparage, but I read on some blog of a supposed friend of Jack Donovan that says he is a homosexual who has written one of the best books describing masculinity.

If that's the case, it would be interesting to read his perspective in slight contrast to one which takes the paradigm in the more biological mass reproduction sense.

It´s true, Donovan is a homosexual. He even wrote a book about it: Androphilia: Rejecting the Gay Identity, Reclaiming Masculinity

Besides that, I always wanted to read The Way of Men since I first read a review on Naughty Nomad´s blog. I´ll probably purchase it as a Christmas gift for myself.

[ElJefe]

How long is this thing?

[OGNorCal707]

It is kind of ironic that the most popular book in the manosphere about masculinity was wrtitten by a gay man. Are we that foregone?

[Hencredible Casanova]

I just returned the book for a refund. I feel conned in a sense. How can a gay man be an authority on masculinity? Can that argument be raised sans ad hominem?

[EisenBarde]

(12-15-2012 05:18 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I just returned the book for a refund. I feel conned in a sense. How can a gay man be an authority on masculinity? Can that argument be raised sans ad hominem?

Yeah, you don't ask the baker the best way to cook a steak.
But from what I've seen, Jack's view is removed from the biological imperative of masculinity and focuses on the social imperative.

[zwyjibo]

(12-15-2012 05:18 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I just returned the book for a refund. I feel conned in a sense. How can a gay man be an authority on masculinity? Can that argument be raised sans ad hominem?

That's kind of a strange argument. Are gay men not men as well? If he were writing a pickup guide I'd agree with you. But his sexual orientation doesn't affect his ingrained male hunter/gatherer/warrior instincts and the microaggressions he faces as a man (such as not being allowed to sit next to anyone else's children on an airplane - some hedge fund manager sued British Airways over a similar scenario not too long ago).

In short, masculinity transcends sexual orientation and affects all men.

[EisenBarde]

(12-15-2012 05:30 PM)jdevoy Wrote:  

In short, masculinity transcends sexual orientation and affects all men.

There's a strong argument against that, being biologically the entire point of manhood is passing on yer little swimmers.

[Belgrano]

(12-15-2012 05:35 PM)EisenBarde Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 05:30 PM)jdevoy Wrote:  

In short, masculinity transcends sexual orientation and affects all men.

There's a strong argument against that, being biologically the entire point of manhood is passing on yer little swimmers.

Well, there is some data available which indicates that homosexual behaviour amongst males could increase their chances to procreate :

Homosexual behaviour increases male attractiveness to females

Quote:

Abstract

Male homosexual behaviour—although found in most extant clades across the Animal Kingdom—remains a conundrum, as same-sex mating should decrease male reproductive fitness. In most species, however, males that engage in same-sex sexual behaviour also mate with females, and in theory, same-sex mating could even increase male reproductive fitness if males improve their chances of future heterosexual mating. Females regularly use social information to choose a mate; e.g. male attractiveness increases after a male has interacted sexually with a female (mate choice copying). Here, we demonstrate that males of the tropical freshwater fish Poecilia mexicana increase their attractiveness to females not only by opposite-sex, but likewise, through same-sex interactions. Hence, direct benefits for males of exhibiting homosexual behaviour may help explain its occurrence and persistence in species in which females rely on mate choice copying as one component of mate quality assessment.

[bojangles]

(12-15-2012 05:18 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I just returned the book for a refund. I feel conned in a sense. How can a gay man be an authority on masculinity? Can that argument be raised sans ad hominem?

It's a great book, I couldn't give a shit about his sexuality. Some of the greatest men in history swung the other way. Only the advent of Christianity followed by Islam made it taboo.

[Ovid]

This is one of the best books I have read. I highly recommend it to all. That being said, I did not know the author was gay, but although I deplore the normalization of this behavior socially, I don't think it invalidates the excellent points the author makes. Julius Caesar conquered Gaul and almost single-handedly turned the Roman republic into an empire... I'm pretty sure he could teach us a thing or two about masculinity, and yet, he was nicknamed the "queen of Bithynia" for his rumored-exploits with its king when he was ambassador there. Point being, Donovan's book stands solidly on its own merits, regardless of how he chooses to spend his free time and in whose company he chooses to spend it.

[Seduction Sutra]

You have to get your facts right. And gays will teach you half truth about masculinity while injecting their agenda into your brain.

Quote:

...it was widely believed that Caesar was having an affair with Nicomedes. His fast return to Bithynia, to settle some affairs for the King, added to the gossip. The incident, while there is no evidence other than speculation, was a great source of joy to Caesar's enemies later. They delighted in referring to him as the Queen of Bithynia.

(12-16-2012 11:04 PM)Ovid Wrote:  

This is one of the best books I have read. I highly recommend it to all. That being said, I did not know the author was gay, but although I deplore the normalization of this behavior socially, I don't think it invalidates the excellent points the author makes. Julius Caesar conquered Gaul and almost single-handedly turned the Roman republic into an empire... I'm pretty sure he could teach us a thing or two about masculinity, and yet, he was nicknamed the "queen of Bithynia" for his rumored-exploits with its king when he was ambassador there. Point being, Donovan's book stands solidly on its own merits, regardless of how he chooses to spend his free time and in whose company he chooses to spend it.

[Spike]

(12-16-2012 07:55 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(12-15-2012 05:18 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

I just returned the book for a refund. I feel conned in a sense. How can a gay man be an authority on masculinity? Can that argument be raised sans ad hominem?

It's a great book, I couldn't give a shit about his sexuality. Some of the greatest men in history swung the other way. Only the advent of Christianity followed by Islam made it taboo.

This.

I think if the current views on sexuality were the same as the ancient Greeks and Romans then a lot of guys would swing both ways these days. Just look inside your local hipster bar and say it isn't so.

[Aliblahba]

I was getting ready to pick this up and read before starting the big ass book challenge. Knowing now the author is gay is important. Will read and review shortly.

For the record, there is NOTHING masculine about a man getting fucked in the ass by another man.

[Praetor]

I agree whole-heartedly with everybody else, The Way of Men is a great read (whether or not the man is a homosexual). Apparently he drives trucks for a living too so he's not your average SWPL manicured male. I just grabbed his free addendum to his book called "No Man's Land" and I highly recommend that one as well.

[Sleek]

I just finished The Way of Men and was impressed. The beginning was a little bit dull and could have been shortened (a description of characteristics about what made a good man), but as the book progressed, I was more and more captivated.

Donovan describes the man's dilemma in great detail: to be able to live by his natural desires (to hunt, defend, and take part in a gang) and live in civilization.

He describes how today we live in a culture that has been watered down by feminists and the elite because it benefits them the most. He also notes how men will not take back their masculinity like women took control of enacting the 19th Amendment... the reason is because we have alternative sources that make many men lazy while feeding our desires. These things are fake, but entertain many men's brains into believing it is real: porn (sexual desire), video games (hunting/killing), sports (allegiance to a tribe).

By the end of the book, I was simply more motivated to become a better man, not by the definition of feminists today, but rather the definition of the Way of Men. It is definitely worth a read.

[JimNortonFan]

Palahniuk is gay and he wrote Fight Club.

Personally never had a problem with gays either as individuals or as a group.

I even had a guy proposition me when I was over at his place. I said no and left. No big deal. I wasn't scared and I didn't feel threatened.

[liberman]

Its a good short read (133 pages) I was quite surprised to find out he is gay but that doesn't alter the book in any way. It makes you feel a little bit nostalgic for the paleolithic period where men were men and women were women.