[Divorco]

I made a PlentyofFish profile for my friend. She is 47, and I used three pretty pictures, nothing fancy. I added some short, mostly mundane text about how she likes cultural stuff, like ballet, symphony, travel, food, and wine.

When I finally entered all the information, she already had five messages. She had another five within an hour. Many are far too young or old (I had to restrict that). Her profile requests an educated, cultured gentleman, yet she gets blue-collar guys posing with livestock.

The mens' messages are short and pointless. They may as well say "I'm too stupid to copy/paste, so see my profile".

The mens' profiles suck. Their pictures are not merely unflattering. Some show the guy at an unrecognizable distance, or the back of his head. Sometimes there is a fuzzy camera-phone pic.

Lesson 1: Women receive many messages, but they are from inappropriate dudes and losers. Probably 10% of men send out 90% of messages. These are losers who account for the huge message imbalance.

Lesson 2: People put little effort into their profiles. Mens' profile text says stupid stuff like "I'm back on the dating market, so lets see how it goes. blah blah blah". They simply put no thought into communicating and selling themselves.

Of course womens' profile are often almost blank. By those standards, my 10-minute profile creation was a Shakespearean accomplishment. That profile is not interesting, but it has hot pictures, and is not blank. That's enough.

Lesson 3: Those same men with lame online approaches must also have lame live approaches. "Hey beautiful" is a line that guarantees failure both live, and online. Your competition is terrible! Yes, there are tricks to improve your success. But basic sensibility and effort will put you ahead of 80%-90% of the competition.

[Divorco]

There were a couple more messages between midnight and 8:00 a.m. One loser has a handle of "Tireless". His message whined that he typed something long and clever, but lost it to a computer glitch. So this whiny "Tireless" is too tired to retype his message? Oh yeah, he doesn't capitalize.

Virtually none of the messages showed evidence of reading her profile. The woman likes ballet and symphony, and she is getting messages from dudes on motorcycles with hunting pictures. I'm trying to get these guys laid, and even explained how in the profile. Wear a suit, take her too a cultural event, and get her drunk on wine. And they can't follow basic instructions.

[RawGod]

(07-16-2012 07:28 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

There were a couple more messages between midnight and 8:00 a.m. One loser has a handle of "Tireless". His message whined that he typed something long and clever, but lost it to a computer glitch. So this whiny "Tireless" is too tired to retype his message? Oh yeah, he doesn't capitalize.

Virtually none of the messages showed evidence of reading her profile. The woman likes ballet and symphony, and she is getting messages from dudes on motorcycles with hunting pictures. I'm trying to get these guys laid, and even explained how in the profile. Wear a suit, take her too a cultural event, and get her drunk on wine. And they can't follow basic instructions.

If you really are a guy who wears a suit and likes going to classical concerts, then sure, start writing to women like this talking about Mozart and who knows she might let you be her boyfriend.

But if you aren't a guy with similar tastes, why bother bullshitting? She's just one chick online.

And I'm telling you that you will get laid just as much by spamming chicks with your hunting and motorcycle pics anyway.

[WestCoast]

I'm trying to get these guys laid, and even explained how in the profile.

Never help a person who can't help himself.

I wish I could say I am excited to test out "online dating" but it just doesn't look like a lot of fun. I'll try it out simply because I've said I will "never" do it, so may as well see wtf is up for shits and giggles.

I must say though, all these desperate attempts at getting girls is straight depressing to read about. Sounds like the average American man today may as well kill himself. Oh well. Most men are generally useless as friends as well, bad advice, not fun to hang out with, not interesting, can "figure them out" in about 3-5 minutes.

[Divorco]

(07-16-2012 08:16 AM)RawGod Wrote:  

If you really are a guy who wears a suit and likes going to classical concerts, then sure, start writing to women like this talking about Mozart and who knows she might let you be her boyfriend.

Just because she likes Mozart doesn't mean she can't be slutty! She is foreign and grew up on this stuff. It isn't beta to establish rapport with some common interests.

Maybe I'm channeling GManifesto here. But a 50-year-old guy should be able to wear a suit. It is just basic social competence.

Quote:

But if you aren't a guy with similar tastes, why bother bullshitting? She's just one chick online.

Yeah, if you are swimming in pussy and seeking a long-term relationship, then there is no need to compromise. But given their terrible strategies, I think a lot of these guys are desperate.

Quote:

you will get laid just as much by spamming chicks with your hunting and motorcycle pics anyway.

Honestly, I have not tried "spamming" women with less-customized messages. But I'm dubious. Hot women get 10-20 messages per day. Your message needs to stand out.

A hot woman will have internet-induced attention deficit disorder. If your message and profile do not explain a common interest, then she will correctly infer you only like her pictures. Unless your profile is awesome, she won't work hard to make a connection. She will just move through her inbox.

Have you tried this "spamming" approach successfully? Or are you just speculating?

[Divorco]

(07-16-2012 08:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

desperate attempts at getting girls are straight depressing to read about.

Are you criticizing the effectiveness of online dating in comparison to live approaches, or are you just criticizing desperate men in general?

You are young in NYC, right? You might have a better niche than people who are older in other locations. I would like to hear your strategy for meeting women.

[WestCoast]

(07-16-2012 10:35 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

(07-16-2012 08:34 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  

desperate attempts at getting girls are straight depressing to read about.

Are you criticizing the effectiveness of online dating in comparison to live approaches, or are you just criticizing desperate men in general?

You are young in NYC, right? You might have a better niche than people who are older in other locations. I would like to hear your strategy for meeting women.

My strategy for meeting girls I like is I work harder than everyone I know. I also literally just don't give a shit.

Put me in Ohio, Mexico, Venus, Mars, china, LA, NYC. Approach is the same. I am someone you want around at all times because I make you better I make you "feel good" and I make you want to be around me at all times. As if simply standing next to me makes you feel more powerful. That's "game".

I'm criticizing their failed attempts, it's embarrassing, don't try to help them you are talking to a rock.

I think the difference between me and other "young guys" is I want you to get laid.

You like the girl I am talking to? Here you go! Don't care dude I'll even help you get her if you want. The reason why is i know with certainty deep down I can get a new one right around the corner.

If you are 30/40/50 all the same my mentality is unbreakable.

[RawGod]

(07-16-2012 10:30 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

Have you tried this "spamming" approach successfully? Or are you just speculating?

Actually, yes I have tried it successfully. I tested this strategy, and documented my results in the comments.

http://two.cedonulli.com/2012/04/dating-site-strategy/

I tripled my response rate by stopping the customised, careful messages and just spamming single-line messages.

This is in the context of 18-24 year olds in Japan, not 40 somethings in the US, but you could do your own testing.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

This thread gives the false impression that, since most guys on online dating sites are Beta schlubs and idiots, you will get by with just making sense and light game because you're so good in comparison. That couldn't be farther from the truth - even then, the ego boost to the average woman is so huge that you still need almost perfect game (and possibly good looks too) to get out of the abyss.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-3601-p...#pid148251

[Divorco]

(07-17-2012 05:15 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

This thread gives the false impression that, since most guys on online dating sites are Beta schlubs and idiots, you will get by with just making sense and light game because you're so good in comparison. That couldn't be farther from the truth - even then, the ego boost to the average woman is so huge that you still need almost perfect game (and possibly good looks too) to get out of the abyss.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-3601-p...#pid148251

I disagree. Yes, there are obstacles. But there are obstacles in day game, night game, and other approaches.

Raw God wrote long-winded messages (in Asia) that came off as creepy and try-hard. He tripled his response rate when he sent short, friendly messages.

Similarly Handsome Creepy Eel was travelling in Australia and wasn't in town long enough. He learned that you can't message too long without losing interest, and you can't ask for the number too quickly. By the time he had learned, he was already leaving. A travelling site like Badoo or Couchsurfing might have been a better approach.

So yes, there is definitely a learning curve. You need good pictures. Not necessary handsome, but sharp, cool, and interesting. You need to spell, capitalize, punctuate, and be witty enough to pique their interest. But don't worry about bad ratios. The other guys are mostly noise. It is not hard to be in the top 10% of messages a woman receives.

[JohnKreese]

(07-17-2012 07:46 AM)Divorco Wrote:  

(07-17-2012 05:15 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  

This thread gives the false impression that, since most guys on online dating sites are Beta schlubs and idiots, you will get by with just making sense and light game because you're so good in comparison. That couldn't be farther from the truth - even then, the ego boost to the average woman is so huge that you still need almost perfect game (and possibly good looks too) to get out of the abyss.
http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-3601-p...#pid148251

I disagree. Yes, there are obstacles. But there are obstacles in day game, night game, and other approaches.

Raw God wrote long-winded messages (in Asia) that came off as creepy and try-hard. He tripled his response rate when he sent short, friendly messages.

Similarly Handsome Creepy Eel was travelling in Australia and wasn't in town long enough. He learned that you can't message too long without losing interest, and you can't ask for the number too quickly. By the time he had learned, he was already leaving. A travelling site like Badoo or Couchsurfing might have been a better approach.

So yes, there is definitely a learning curve. You need good pictures. Not necessary handsome, but sharp, cool, and interesting. You need to spell, capitalize, punctuate, and be witty enough to pique their interest. But don't worry about bad ratios. The other guys are mostly noise. It is not hard to be in the top 10% of messages a woman receives.

I agree with so much here, but I think we all have to realize that not only do different sites work better in different countries/areas, (as you've mentioned) but different approaches work differently as well.

At home in the States, if I post a nicely thought out profile, highlighting my high level of education as well as my above-average looks and physique, I might get "winks" or their equivilent, but ultimately, I would be doing most of the leg work. If I post shirtless pics, I might get winks from some flakes who just want to check me out, but aren't really looking to converse most of the time.

In contrast, my profiles focused in South American cities, (mainly utilizing Badoo) have much less content, but more shirtless pictures or pictures where I generally look my best. I can throw my image up on the Spotlight and have 5 messages within 5 minutes.

Ultimately, you have to understand that the internet dating game works differently in different countries, although you may experience the most frustration in the U.S.

[Divorco]

(07-17-2012 11:47 AM)JohnKreese Wrote:  

get a decent physique going, throw up a couple of shirtless pics in Caracas and try to keep track of all of the messages that you'll be receiving.

Good point about location.

I just looked at my friend's mailbox. She finally logged in and deleted most of her 30 messages. I looked at her "Sent Messages" folder. She replied to the most handsome guys with one-liners like:

"I think you are handsome," or

"You have a nice profile," or

"It's late. I'm going to bed now."

She is a typical woman who is not well-practiced at this communication. So she is a bit thoughtless and flighty. She is bombarded by messages. And she has a job and other things to do. You need to grab her attention with your first message and profile (mostly pictures). Then you need to get her number on the second message. Otherwise your message thread will get buried in her Inbox. On a Thursday night she will be halfway through her messages. She is hungry, needs to go to the gym, and must pick up dry cleaning and groceries. The easiest thing for her to do is to delete your message or procrastinate and plan to respond later. In that case she will be buried by more messages and you will never meet her.

This has been instructive.

[Kickb]

I followed your lead and made one as well. Chose a girl who I would say is an 8. She's a farm girl who just moved to the big city!

First message "OMG... You are beautiful I'm not sure if you would be interested but I'm extremely well endowed and would love to hang out with you"