[TheMan]

So I've started the Roosh program, am now on my 2nd cycle (and using Day Bang as my Game Manual) and have noticed something that was previously a huge mystery to me.

I've always been able to internally say fuck the fear of approach (and follow-up)--still very much feeling it of course--and go up and start talking etc (even way before my red pill days). But whenever the conversation would start to progress to anything past the initial fluffy small talk I would feel uncomfortable and [eject].

Now, since I've been challenging and pushing myself to progress I've noticed this weird-ish phenomenon: I notice that the girls I was talking to would start to mirror the discomfort I was feeling inside on their faces and send me non-verbal cues that they want to eject .

So I've realized that despite thinking that I've been hiding and powering through my anxiety, I've just been hiding it from myself ...on my face.

I think it is realistic to expect that the fear will never really go away (as reported by many senior and respected members on the forum).
So finally my question: How can I effectively deal with the intensity or the tell?

Thanks in advance,

The Man

[tjames]

Hi

It's good you are still going out despite anxiety. If you are nervous you will put the girl in a nervous mood. When I talk to girls even if they are nervous I am in a good mood so if they are DTF I put them in a good mood and get them laughing. I respond to any anger with laughter and humor and they will always laugh too.

Do you have any nervous behaviors like fidgeting or hands in the pocket? Do you speak loudly and slowly? Are you considered attractive by women -- women will get shy and nervous around attractive guys?

The only thing that improves conversational skill is practice. Remember to back when you were a kid and you got to know your friends. You both shared your interests and name, etc. I don't think attraction can be built so if a girl is attracted to you then it is no big deal if you are quiet for a bit. Just re-engage the conversation. As long as you are not extremely nervous and looking around it should be no big deal. Even when I'm with my friends I don't talk nonstop.

The anxiety and nervousness will get lowered and lowered. You just have to be bold sometimes and realize things aren't as bad as your mind makes it out to be. It's the flight or fight response. Use fear to your advantage and pick fight.

[TheMan]

Wow fist off thanks TJames, great feedback.

(07-15-2012 06:09 AM)tjames Wrote:  

Do you speak loudly and slowly? Are you considered attractive by women?

Yes and Yes. Speed of speech is no issue but I have to work on being not so loud especially when excited etc.

And I am (objectively speaking) Very Attractive to women who like my niche ( think this direction) to them I'm an 8 to 8.5 and to others 6.5 to 7 depending.

(07-15-2012 06:09 AM)tjames Wrote:  

As long as you are not extremely nervous and looking around it should be no big deal

Haha, thats the EXACT tell that clued me into what I was doing. Any tips on fighting that one?

(07-15-2012 06:09 AM)tjames Wrote:  

It's the flight or fight response. Use fear to your advantage and pick fight.

I'm naturally kind of ...intimidating / punchy / stand-off-ish and have been working on toning it down (cocky-funny was like taking 10 steps backwards for my game), and putting it in check, by having to do things like put--what feels to me like 1000x the--extra exaggeration into things so they get that its a joke. So I'm not quite sure that fight is what I need.

I have however heard of this guy called Natural Tim who talks about channeling the fury... Maybe I need to go on some montage laden spiritual quest to find that balance.

I know that the key to this is internal, I just need to figure out how and where to make the adjustments.

[tjames]

Quote:

Haha, thats the EXACT tell that clued me into what I was doing. Any tips on fighting that one?

Avoiding looking around a lot is something that takes a while to get when it's a hard wired behavior. It took me a few months to do that. But everytime I caught myself doing it I said to myself "the party is where you are". So now I just pick a point and zone out. If I'm chatting it up with a girl I maintain strong eye contact. Thats what you do with friends you look directly at your friends when talking. And this girl is going to be your future friend hopefully.

Other nervous behaviors go the same route. I had a hard job not leaning in and sometimes I still do but I kept correcting myself internally. Each time you do it you mentally slap yourself on the wrist and then it's like second nature. It's like good form when working out, you keep correcting yourself and eventually after enough turns you get it.

I recommend you read Heartiste/Roissy's article on it, it's where I learned a lot of it from.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/10/0...cts-women/

I also watch what celebrities do when they give interviews and from watching Scarface. Tony Montana as really great body language.

Quote:

I'm naturally kind of ...intimidating / punchy / stand-off-ish and have been working on toning it down (cocky-funny was like taking 10 steps backwards for my game), and putting it in check, by having to do things like put--what feels to me like 1000x the--extra exaggeration into things so they get that its a joke. So I'm not quite sure that fight is what I need.

I have a very intense and serious look on my face most of the time. But since I use a lot of dry humor and laugh at myself when I do something stupid most people think I'm a easy going guy. The only cocky funny I use is just humorous responses to her questions.

Examples(I deliever all of these deadpan serious):

"What do you do for a living?"
I'm an ass model

[She'll usually laugh, I wait a bit and join in]

"No really"
I'm an assassin

"Oh yea and I'm the queen of france"
Oh so should I call you your majesty?

The only time I give a rude response is when the girl is giving me a real bitchy look and asks me to buy her a drink. "No I'm not an atm" is what I say and I eject. She is only out for free drinks.

I think if you are like me and really intense looking these can really help curb some of this. But again I can only speak from my own experiences. You got to find your own niche. However, never use negs they can ruin your shots. And while Mystery does recommend having comeback lines to a girl who tells you to get lost, etc. I recommend you just eject. She's wasting your valuable time and I find I end up looking needy and bitter when I respond to her.

The only teasing I do is when she's dancing real weird and I say "I'm really jealous of your dancing skills". Or "your friend looks real bored/shy". The last one is really a compliment in disguise, it means she is having the most fun. The first one doesn't really work well but I get a kick out of it.

One warning though I'm a night gamer so I haven't done hardly any day game. And again what works for me might not work for you.

Hope this helps.

[Edit: And also on the topic of body language you want to look relaxed not cool or tough. So lean back and take up lots of room. Don't cross your legs or fold your arms. Legs should be shoulder width apart, head should be cocked up looking at the horizon and shoulders should be relaxed and "drop". Breathe in from your nose and out through your mouth, breathing good really relaxes you. Take up lots of room and really relax. Drink should held at hip level not chest. Your beer is your sidearm not your shield as I always think of it. Read it somewhere can't remember.]

[Giovonny]

(07-15-2012 05:28 AM)TheMan Wrote:  

the fear will never really go away

Incorrect. (based on my experience)

The fear does go away with enough approaches and work to eliminate fear.

I'm talking about thousands of approaches. And not just simple, conservative approaches. You gotta take chances and push the limits sometimes.

This really helped me get over alot of fear:

Day time Apocalypse Opener

The more you face your fear head on the more of that fear you will eliminate!

Here is the best post I have ever written..

Its all about eliminating fear..

Eliminating Fear

(07-15-2012 05:28 AM)TheMan Wrote:  

So finally my question: How can I effectively deal with the intensity or the tell?

Do more appraoches, be more ballsy, work on your game with greater passion and focus. Work harder on eliminating your fears!

Read the above post on eliminating fear.