[WestCoast]

"So, my final answer is yes, elite universities do often hurt a young mans game"

Ouch Gio. After that review of my game that's a good punch in the balls!

I'd say it makes your game much much stronger or much much weaker rarely do I see in between.

[XXL]

sure. also that academic/smart environment might fuel that logical/rational approach towards men-women ralationships in general and alienate them from the nature of socializing. so the natural consequence is that they get out of touch with the practical reality nature of the game and get more and more inside their head full of logical rationalizations and rational excuses. so naturally they start to view this field as some kind of sudoku game and try to break it down and as they're socialize the more they analize logically the more their logic ends up fucking them DEEP in the ass. it's brutal. it's brutal to be disconnected from reality in any field imo. any kind of conversation about women in general is pointless

[pitt]

(07-06-2012 12:54 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

The "badboy" thing is a whole separate conversation. Of course, there are badboys with game and badboys without game.

It all depends on the guy and how he carries himself.

What was that other thread where you guys were discussing this???

http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-14117.html

[Giovonny]

WestCoast,

You are an exception. You took control of your game and took full responsibility for your pussy getting ability.

You didn't wait around expecting the universe to reward you for all your hard work, study, and sacrifice.

You went out and made it happen. You educated yourself academically and sexually!

[joehoya]

Let me throw something else out there.

As much as we bash the pussy prospects of elite universities, if you attend one PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take advantage of one aspect that will pay HUGE dividends in the future.

Make friends.

Thats it. Be social and make as many friends as possible. Avoid only associating with folks in your own little clique. Make friends with that shy engineering student. Make friends with that feminist chick who doesn't shave her legs. Make friends with the head of the local gay students association.

These friends will form a powerful network in the future. Whether folks want to admit it or not, a huge proportion of our future economic and political leaders come from these schools. What many don't realize is that an EVEN GREATER percentage of the folks in the background, who aren't household names yet shape policy, also come from these schools.

A guy I knew who was the head of the schools LGBT community and was MILITANTLY gay later became a major player in the state department. The guy who was my TA for my first computer science course later became a dotcom multimillionaire. A guy I used to get completely shitfaced with after debate tournaments is now a senior VP at a major investment bank. The list goes on and on.

Aside from being cool people to hang out with, these people can help you in the future. Even more importantly, if they can't help you they can introduce you to someone who can and vouch for you. Lets say I want to get venture capital for my startup. It is a completely different experience trying to get the opportunity to pitch your idea to some VC's who don't know you and don't give a fuck about you, vs getting a personal introduction to some VC's by a mutual friend who says "Joehoya is a smart guy and someone I trust. You should listen to what he has to say."

In particular, for those that have dreams of being international playboys, MAKE FRIENDS WITH THE FOREIGN STUDENTS. I cannot stress this enough. Oftentimes foreign students, even in top universities, can be a little isolated. As a result, many of them welcome making a new friend. For a moment, think about how hooked up someone needs to be to study for 4+ years at an elite US institution (hell, even a non-elite institution) as a foreign national. These people (perhaps even more so than the American students) are going to be the leaders in their country. More importantly, they will be able to invite you into social circles in that country that are all but impossible to get access to if you arrive to the country without knowing anyone.

For example, for whatever reason, I know a shitload of folks from Taiwan, China, France, Lebanon, Denmark, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, and Equador. Those were just the folks I hung out with in college. As a result, I have used those networks when I travel to those countries. Think about the difference between cold approaching foreign chicks on the street (or worse, at a bar or club) in a country where you don't know anyone, vs having folks you know in those countries that HAVE WOMEN LINED UP AND READY TO MEET YOU when you arrive.

I am planning on hitting Argentina sometime next year because two of my friends (both female) have been dying to hook me up with some of their (VERY HOT) friends. None of that pipelining shit for me. No profiles on Badoo, Hi5, or LatinAmericanCupid necessary. No need to post on forums asking about what the good clubs are in Buenos Aires. Just hop of the plane with an instant social circle.

I don't say this just to show how hooked up I am. I didn't do anything special to make this happen. More importantly, EVERY ONE OF YOU GUYS IN SCHOOL CAN DO THIS. The foreign student thing works REGARDLESS of whether you go to an elite school or not. At the state school I went to first, we had a bunch of Asian foreign students (China, Japan, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan, etc). The school basically isolated them from the rest of the student population. They stayed in separate dorms and for the first year they only took ESL classes with other foreigners. By the second year on, even though they were taking classes with the rest of the students, since they were REALLY SHY, lived in their own dorm, and the American students didn't give a shit about them, they interacted VERY LITTLE with Americans.

Well, a friend of mine who was about a year ahead of me made it a point to meet and make friends with these foreign students. Primarily it stemmed from his interest in martial arts and Asian culture. Once they saw that he legitimately wanted to make friends with him, they latched on to him like a pitbull. He was ALWAYS going to their parties and having lunch with them and meeting their family. Keep in mind, this was a black kid who had never even been on a plane before, much less traveled extensively, yet he now had a deep international social circle that stretched across Asia, because for many of those foreign students he was one of the few American friends they had.

Fast forward to the present day. The dude has done AT LEAST 4 trips where he has toured multiple Asian countries. In every country he already has a network of people he can stay with, who will show him all of the hot spots in town, and who give him access to local pussy. He has pounded so much far east pussy that I actually feel jealous for not making friends like he did while I was at this state school. Keep in mind, this was some no-name, 4th tier state school, and there was STILL huge opportunities to make foreign connections.

Well this post has been a shit load longer than I expected. Bult let me close with the same advice I started with.

Make friends.

[UgSlayer]

what school a guy attends has about <1% to do with how tight his game is.

[WestCoast]

Shit if you find this forum and do not want to attend a top end school I think you're bat shit crazy. There is no downside to killing it at a top school.

[Saladin]

Co-sign with joehoya. Making foreign friends is extremely important if you are looking to live the International Playboy lifestyle. Chances are, if they are studying in the US or Canada they are well-connected back home.

Also, foreign dudes are also far more interesting and a lot of them are quite red pill(they don't like feminism or that BS). I've had foreign friends be very critical of American women.

[joehoya]

WestCoast,

Are you still in school?

[WestCoast]

I work on the Street

Most guys at elite schools yes have no game. But if you go to one and are smart there is no downside to attending the best schools.

In fact the guy that I know who pulls the most tail is a guy who graduated from Harvard biz school. Elite universities improve game if used correctly, or it murders your game if you give off the vibe you are trying to make people feel inferior. Which is very easy to do because people get their panties in a bunch pretty easily.

(07-06-2012 01:59 PM)joehoya Wrote:  

WestCoast,

Are you still in school?

[whosyourdaddy]

(07-06-2012 03:38 AM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

I'm a little late to this party, but I suppose I should add my two cents.

As has already been mentioned, I've written extensively on this topic:

Post 1

Post 2

Post 3

Post 4

Post 5

Post 6

Post 7

This thread (from this post forward)

This thread (in which I placed several posts)

This Entire Thread

There are probably more floating around, but that's what I was able to dig up on a quick search.

Now, on to the thread at hand...

(07-04-2012 12:19 AM)Veindarlin Wrote:  

This was about 2 years ago, he went off to college, completely different from where I would end up my first two years of college. He ended up going to an Ivy League school. Just after two years of meeting him we chatted and stuff and one guy we were with talked about how it is fun being young, single, and trying it out with different women. My friend yells and tells him to "grow up" and says this whole stuff is for immature folks who have emotional and mental issues. Then he goes off on a long speech by starting off saying "this is whats wrong with men like you!".

The guy we were with and I look at each other awkwardly, we were like "okaaayyy". So I go to talk to my friend who tells me to never do that to a woman and then says about how women are already "abused" and put in such "unfavorable" situations. He yells at me and says "don't ever be that guy".

While the white-knight/uber-beta quotient is certainly much higher here than most other environments, I'd say the type of outspoken male feminism outlined by OP here is not quite so common. Very few guys here fit that particular bill.

(07-04-2012 03:10 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

Maybe it's because they didn't get laid once in college.

People do not fuck here quite as much as your run-of-the-mill state-schooler is used to, this is certasinly correct. Some ivies may have more hook-ups than others, but generally even the most loose Ivy is nothing compared to even a fourth-tier state school.

Kids here simply don't get wild enough on a sufficiently regular basis to make that happen, and they have far too much in the way of social awkwardness, insecurity and raw caution (the type of caution/conscientiousness that got them admitted, remember) to make an abundance of hookups happen.

(07-04-2012 10:09 PM)rlongo924 Wrote:  

A TON of people I know that went to really good colleges have a totally different attitude now that they did before hand. Like they're completely different people and think of themselves as more "mature" and "grown up". Honestly, a lot of them are just really pretentious and basically assholes.

Does this side effect occur? Yes. A quick glance at many of my peers can reveal some of the pretentiousness you mentioned-it exists. I attend a "lesser known" Ivy (read: not H,Y or P), so I can imagine that this may be an even greater problem with students at such schools with great "lay prestige".

That being said, coming to an Ivy can also humble you greatly. It isn't always easy to leave an environment where you were unquestionably the smartest kid around and enter an environment where you are merely average. It isn't easy to have to completely re-learn how to study, take notes, and approach school when you never had to put much effort into academics before. It isn't easy leaving a firmly middle class environment and then entering a world where the majority of your peers are of the 1 percent, inhabitants of a world you didn't know existed and have no idea how to fit in with.

I can't speak for everyone, as many (perhaps most) of my peers do not deal with these issues. Most come from economically elite homes, making the Ivies no adjustment-they're around peers. Most come from highly selective and competitive schools (private or public), and so are more well prepared for Ivy level coursework-no need to completely reshape their academic habits.

But for a small but significant portion of any given Ivy's student body, attendance is cause for a growth of humility, not pretentiousness.

I would say that I was greatly matured by my experience here, and I can back that up with anecdotal observations given by peers and family over my three years as an Ivy Leaguer. I was miserable most of the time (lots of BS-some descriptions can be seen in the older posts linked above) and I found most of the experience very painful, but it did forge me into a man. I entered a naive child-I'll leave with far better inner-game, style, conversational ability, and just general higher levels of humility, realism and maturity.

I'm more grown up now. Not every Ivy Leaguer is BSing when he says that.

(07-04-2012 10:14 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  

Elite universities do NOT hurt game.

In fact, having attended both, folks really aren't that much different, except that you're gonna become friends with a lot more well-connected guys (& their families) in elite unis that state unis.

I agree with most of this post, save for this part. It may just be my school or it may not be, but I can say that the folks at my Ivy are VERY different. Aside from being much more academically inclined than average, they are very much physically (ex: guys are taller, girls not quite as hot) and socially distinct from what I'm used to. I feel at times like I'm in the twilight zone, and I had a very hard time getting used to it early on. Only now can I really step back and look at it all objectively.

Again, maybe this isn't the case at all elite schools, but at mine this is the reality.

(07-05-2012 08:21 AM)Hades Wrote:  

I will never believe that the quality of kids is higher at an Ivy League school. I will believe that the egos of professors are much larger, however. Many of them believe that because they teach at a prestigious school, they are celebrities. This is not true.

Are Ivies filled with higher quality people? In the general moral sense, no. People here are wealthier and perhaps more academically successful than most, but morally they can be just as (if not more) bankrupt than humans anywhere else. In my particular environment, I find loyalty especially lacking. This world is more about what you can offer (pedigree, money, etc), not who you are. People also seem more honest in other environments I've been, less willing to put on a face for one end or another. Appearances sometimes take on a bit too much importance here.

But academically? You're free not to believe it if you wish, but the fact will remain regardless. It is true that the top 1-2 percentiles of students at most first-tier state schools could do well at most Ivies and the very absolute bottom tier at most Ivies isn't that special, but beyond this there is little overlap. These schools are far too selective for there to be any other reality.

(07-05-2012 09:57 AM)beta_plus Wrote:  

One thing that one has to realize about the Ivy League schools just how ugly the women are at these institutions.

To keep it simple, let's just stick to the Ivys:
Harvard
Yale
Princeton
Dartmouth
Cornell
Columbia
U Penn

While at Harvard, Columbia, and Penn you have the possible option of venturing into the city to get better prospects, the chances that you will have the time and the resources to do so is unlikely due to the workload and extreme expense of the cities in which they are located. At Princeton, Dartmouth, Cornell, and Yale, you are just stuck around incredibly unattractive women with no where to go.

The women at these places are just awful. Fat with bad attitudes and faces that would be pretty bad even if they lost weight and dressed more feminine.

Firstly, don't forget Brown.

Secondly, as a student at one of the "nowhere-to-go" schools mentioned here, I have to take some issue with the description of the women.
They're plain, not ugly (though, admittedly, those two may be synonymous to some guys with higher standards than mine).

To put it simply, the distribution of looks here doesn't follow the usual curve at less selective schools. At your standard private/state institution, you'll have a large mass of fairly cute (6-7 range) girls in the middle (say 70% of the total female student body), and smaller pools (each perhaps at around 15%) of unattractive/fat and model-hot girls on the extreme bottom and top ends. At many of these places (the ones with the rep for having very attractive student bodies), the top end may be slightly larger than the bottom (say 20% or more instead of 15%) and the low end smaller, but your run-of-the mill school will probably follow this distribution.

At my school and many other Ivies, this distribution seems to go more like this: The 6-7 range is much smaller, and probably accounts for maybe 40% of girls here. 4s and 5s are likely another 40%. 15% are fairly unattractive/fat (read: below a 4). 5% are 8's or above, and contain within this elite group may be one or two girls who could be called "model hot" (well above an 8, approaching the 9 range, worthy of being called genuine "smokeshows"). Obviously this is hearsay/opinion on my part (my 8 may not be your 8), but that is how I perceive the distribution of attractiveness based on experience.

There are actually relatively few fat/obese girls at my Ivy-most are, at the very least, in decent shape. It is the top end of the spectrum here that is lacking. The middle/above average tiers of girls at most less selective private and state schools would match the top tiers here. If a girl is widely considered a 6-7 at a school like Villanova, you could probably call her a solid 8 here, and she'd be treated accordingly (guys are quite thirsty).
The top end girls I've seen at schools like that would absolutely run my Ivy-there'd simply be no competition. Similarly, I can think of many girls from my high school (which was in middle-of-nowhere New York, not Beverly Hills, Miami or some other hot-girl hotbed) who were considered merely "cute" there but could easily walk into top sororities here and outshine many (or even most) of the girls in them.

It isn't that the girls here are particularly ugly or fat...they're just not particularly attractive either.

The attitudes of girls here are another story, however. Those are definitely particularly ugly, at least in my experience.

(07-06-2012 12:45 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

If by high quality you mean high-earning potential husband material then sure but remember at the very top end of academic achievement you're talking about guys who predominately (there are exceptions) are socially awkward nerds.

Aside from being good high-earning husband material the guys at my Ivy are also a) much taller (I'm 5'10" and I feel short there) and b) much more athletic than average.

Add to this the fact that most of these guys carry solid pedigrees (read: wealthy, reasonably well connected families, almost all firmly upper-middle class at a minimum) and you've got a pretty solid pool to choose from. Girls here are not in an objectively bad position selection wise. If your goal is to get close to a guy who is at once tall, fit, athletic (D1 sports) and affluent, your chances of doing so are much higher at my school than just about any other-the sheer abundance of athletes and the wealth of the student body ensures this. Most guys here will fit at least three of those four criteria, and even the guys who don't will probably still be loaded and well pedigreed at a bare minimum.

I've also run into at least two dozen or so guys who, on paper, seem almost too "perfect". Very good looking, tall (at least 5'11"), super athletic (often all-conference athletes), and affluent. To top it off, they were also all very nice guys-nobody has anything bad to say about them, and quite a few won team/school awards for their decency. When I say "nice guy", I'm talking up to a Tim Tebow level here-they're almost too good enough so to be unbelievable (though it is authentic). Many of them were in fact very religious conservatives (more of those here than you'd expect at an Ivy), so the Tebow comparison has some legs.

This may sound like I'm man crushing here, but I'm really just being objective and honest: these are people who fit the bill of stereotypical male attractiveness so closely that they wouldn't seem out of place on a TV screen, like hollywood characters come to life. Other dudes on campus would joke about how "perfect" they were. I credit them in many ways for my improvements in style and fitness over my time here-you have no choice but to step it up with competition like that. I've never seen so many of them in one place, don't think I ever will again unless I decide to make Norway/Sweden home one day.

There aren't many girls here who hit the buttons for what is considered stereotypically attractive in their own sex quite so closely. I can think of maybe two dozen or so guys off the top of my head who fit the bill for men (smart and athletic, but also good-looking and very kind all at once)-they have maybe three or four female peers who are similarly striking (not just smart or athletic, but also very beautiful while at the same time feminine and kind almost to a fault). There is certainly a gap.

Bottomline: Girls have plenty of high quality options here, and I'd assume that is true at many other top schools. That being said, I would posit that the larger elite schools have more diluted levels of quality (ex: fewer athletes in proportion to entire student body).

Also, as a final note: Just about everything JoeHoya said in this thread was directly on-point. Listen to that man, he knows what he's talking about. I fully co-sign every post he has made in here.

It's like a triple whammy at an elite school vs a state school.

1. Girls are significantly uglier. Don't mean to sound racist, but jews and asians are very overrepresented.
2. Girls attitudes suck, have huge egos and more feminist attitudes predominate.
3. Girls don't date, and generally don't hook up as much.

What's better at state schools:
1. State schools have better ratios- usually more women than men, often 40/60, while ivies are often 60/40 or 55/45.
2. In most flyover states, chicks are ACTIVELY looking for guys. Why?
For most chicks, this is best time for them to "experiment" with a bunch of different guys.
Secondly, a large majority of chicks are seeking the guy they want to marry in college, as in lots of flyover states, it's hard to meet people after college= wants a ring or engagement at graduation.
3. Chicks are freaking easy and little of the "feminist" attitude. Any decent player in a good college setting can kill it. Literally, opportunities are limitless.

Here's a tip. Go back to school at the age of 27 or so, especially at a school known to have lots of hot girls, like Florida State, and it'll be a buffet of hot girls. Take classes in something like healthcare, and it'll be like 70% chicks, maybe up to 30-40% 7.5's and above.

And you'll have the age/looks/maturity advantage over 19 year old kids who play video games in their dorm rooms. I really have a hard time thinking of a better situation to be in, when it comes to chicks in the US.

[WestCoast]

@ whoseyourdaddy

Agree with all this analysis. Issue is why not just slay girls way from campus? Who says you need to date the girls at your school? My girlfriends in college were all @ state schools.

If you are choosing a school based on "hot girls" your priorities are whack. Choose a school based on opportunities. Harvard is surrounded by other campuses, UCLA has hot girls and a good school... The list goes on.

[Greek kamaki]

The biggest shock you get when you get out of your ''elite'' academic environment is the massive dumbness you encounter.Having taken for granted that all folks are as bright as your least intelligent co-students at least you get outside the institution and see collegues with dubious degrees and faces of truck drivers.They are slow minded and very average.They can be even below average intelligence.The shock value is huge it is like being beaten by a truck.

Being good academically is a serious cockblock for many reasons.Usually the girls who get the highest grades needed to enter competitive schools are the ugliest ones since this is the only way they have to advance.So you get into an environment surrounded by the ugliest and most virgin girls ever.The proprotions are totally skewd to your disadvantage.When social circle plays a huge role as it does in Greece being in such an environment can kill all your chances completely.However most people manage to escape from this suffocating situation by approaching women in campuses(philology,pedagogics etc) with much better female to male ratio(there are cases where the school had 200 women for 5 guys and of the 5 guys the 3 were gay,so imagine the chances for the rest of them.This happens often in foreign language,pedagogics,nurse school).

[beta_plus]

(07-06-2012 12:56 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

I guess Queen's in the 80s didn't have the same ratio...

The one side effect of feminism that I like is that college ratios are utterly in favor of males(60:40 female to male ratio in most Canadian Universities), which means college game for college student is much easier than the cockfest that most bars and club are in many cities.

Small city/town Ontario unis are an IMPROVEMENT over Toronto? Ouch. Yeah, Queen's was majority female, but the majority of the females was not very tempting (again the 90s - don't know now). Please tell me that you are going to Western or McMaster.

I knew Ontario was not a great place, but if you ever get the opportunity, just get out of that province. The two place that I will defend my hometown of DC against here are Ontario and Denmark.

[Excelsior]

(07-06-2012 03:04 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

It's like a triple whammy at an elite school vs a state school.

1. Girls are significantly uglier. Don't mean to sound racist, but jews and asians are very overrepresented.

That does sound pretty bad, and it isn't accurate either. Jews/asians are overrepresented at top schools, but more jews/asians =/= uglier girls. What we see at most top schools (this is certainly the case at my own) is not a population of great-looking white girls being held down by a population of unattractive asians/jews. The girls are plain all around.

If you switched the populations of Jewish and asian girls at my school with those out for those at the likes of NYU and some decent California state schools (which are full of Asians), the quality of girls here would skyrocket. The fact that they're Jewish/Asian is irrelevant.

Quote:

2. Girls attitudes suck, have huge egos and more feminist attitudes predominate.
3. Girls don't date, and generally don't hook up as much.

These are more accurate statements. Attitudes among girls at my school aren't ideal and dating is rarely done, at least not casually.

In other places, you get used to folks having casual relationships. Boy/girl decide they like each other (mutual attraction, perhaps a hookup or two has occurred), agree to become GF/BF and date for a while and see where it goes. While they are "official" and are exclusive, there aren't too many hard expectations for what becomes of things. Maybe it lasts for a month and they break up, maybe it lasts for a year or two, and maybe they later become husband and wife. Regardless, the reality is that in other places people are willing to give dating a shot based on attraction. They'll go with the flow if they're feeling one another.

At my school (and I suspect this is also the case at most Ivies and Ivy-caliber schools), folks don't bother with that. People are either very strictly hooking up (which doesn't always involve intercourse-that's not common here) and entirely unwilling or just very wary of moving beyond that, or they are practically married (dating VERY seriously, meeting parents, taking trips together during breaks, sometimes living together, etc). There is no in between. It takes far more than effort here to get a girl into a relationship (mutual attraction often isn't enough, even with prior hookups), and once it does happen you're usually all in (go-everywhere-together, might-as-well-be-married, inseparable).

Quote:

Here's a tip. Go back to school at the age of 27 or so, especially at a school known to have lots of hot girls, like Florida State, and it'll be a buffet of hot girls. Take classes in something like healthcare, and it'll be like 70% chicks, maybe up to 30-40% 7.5's and above.

And you'll have the age/looks/maturity advantage over 19 year old kids who play video games in their dorm rooms. I really have a hard time thinking of a better situation to be in, when it comes to chicks in the US.

Good idea for some guys interested in academic/career paths that could lean in that direction.
If my current plans stay on line, I'll be a year or two out of grad school by that age.

[Greek kamaki]

Also when you ae in tough academic environment with lots of smarts and hard workers around it means that the exam standards skyrocket.It is no longer the highschool where the average performance of the population sets the standards.Now you have to compete against the top 5% of the population.So the situation created regarding competition when you put lots of people with high exam performance in the same place can lead to not having time to do anything else apart from studying for exams.This does no way seem alpha to the minds of girls.
Also girls outside this tough environment usually fail to realize the challenge and why it is so difficult.When you tackle others with exam difficulty level they automatically suppose it to be the high school level so there is no contempt either.

[Giovonny]

(07-06-2012 03:17 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

The biggest shock you get when you get out of your ''elite'' academic environment is the massive dumbness you encounter.

hahaha!`This is so true. Smart guys have to calibrate themselves to deal with the mainstream population. I don't call it "dumbing down", I just call it social awareness.

[Giovonny]

(07-06-2012 03:04 PM)whosyourdaddy Wrote:  

Here's a tip. Go back to school at the age of 27 or so, especially at a school known to have lots of hot girls,

This is exactly what I did. Well, I went back to grad school from 25-27. It was beautiful. I was banging girls in the dorms within the first month. Then I started teaching at the school. Those were some great years for gaming.

[Greek kamaki]

(07-07-2012 11:32 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(07-06-2012 03:17 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

The biggest shock you get when you get out of your ''elite'' academic environment is the massive dumbness you encounter.

hahaha!`This is so true. Smart guys have to calibrate themselves to deal with the mainstream population. I don't call it "dumbing down", I just call it social awareness.

Yes,because you are used to different brain speeds and when you get out of this artificial environment many things you take for granted are not understood because basic knowledge is missing.At first you get into many conflicts.Then you start developing a sense of the real average.

[brianmark]

I‘d have to say this post hits close to home. I have two first cousins that are just finishing college. Neither goes to an Ivy League school, just state universities. Recently I had the same experience with them. We were all together for a week and they had changed to total beta feminists. Everything I said they blasted me for as not being “progressive”. I had always been their older cool cousin. Now they’ve had the serious university brainwashing. I have been relegated to dinosaur and racists status! I have traveled to 48 countries and lived in 4, and now they were blasting me for anything I said about someone from a foreign country. If I told them I got held up at knife point on the street and said the country was dangerous, they’d tell me I was a racist for saying that. They believe that the USA and big corporations are responsible for all the poverty and problems of the world!

Also they let me know that my ideas about women are outdated, I that I objectify them, and I’m a chauvinist. Now I’m the guy that has had longer and more stable relationships with women than either of them. One has only been with two girls and at least his new girlfriend is great. The other cousin, even though good looking, has been through a lot of fat girls and even dumped by a lousy girl. He blasts me for saying girls are fat or ugly. He tries to tell me we give women an inferiority complex because of all the emphasis we put on thin!

I found our visit together unbearable! I have decided not to tell them about my travels or girls in the future, unless they grow up. They know I’ve been to many places and have been with many girls (and they haven’t), so I actually believe some of it may be jealousy. I’m hoping that working in the real world will change them to having a more normal view on women and the world, but only time will tell. Hopefully they’ll get overseas and get their asses kicked a few times in some rough circumstances. Right now, I cannot educate them, because they don’t want to hear anything I have to say. There is also a great possibility that they will be lost forever to Betaland! This way of thinking is sad and more common than I ever believed!

[WestCoast]

Yeah this is another rant for a different post, but in short elite universities try to shove things down your throat and you must ignore what you are being taught and instead agree on paper and forget it as soon as you walk out the door.

Second issue with "elite university" professors is this weird dynamic where the girls love what they are saying it gets them laid because htey are professors but then if you put them in a regular guy game environment he gets blown out because of his crazy feminist thinking.

Think about what elite university professors had to do to get there?

They spent 12+ years... being told what to do.

Again this is the elite level does not apply to professors who teach at sub top 20. Lot of those guys are cool.

(07-07-2012 02:19 PM)brianmark Wrote:  

I‘d have to say this post hits close to home. I have two first cousins that are just finishing up college. Neither goes to an Ivy League school, just state universities. Recently I had the same experience with them. We were all together for a week and they had changed to total beta feminists. Everything I said they blasted me for as not being “progressive”. I had always been their older cool cousin. Now they’ve had the serious university brainwashing. I have been relegated to dinosaur and racists status! I have traveled to 48 countries and lived in 4, and now they were blasting me for anything I said about someone from a foreign country. If I told them I got held up at knife point on the street and said the country was dangerous, they’d tell me I was racists for saying that. They believe that the USA and big corporations are responsible for all the poverty and problems of the world!

Also they let me know that my ideas about women are outdated, I that I objectify them, and I’m a chauvinist. Now I’m the guy that has had longer and more stable relationships with women than either of them. One has only been with two girls and at least his new girlfriend is great. The other has been through a lot of fat girls and even dumped by a lousy girl. He blasts me for saying girls are fat or ugly. He tries to tell me we give women an inferiority complex because of all the emphasis we put on thin!

I found our visit together unbearable! I have decided not to tell them about my travels or girls in the future, unless they grow up. They know I’ve been to many places and have been with many girls (and they haven’t), so I actually believe some of it may be jealousy. I’m hoping that working in the real world will change them to having a more normal view on women and the world, but only time will tell. Hopefully they’ll get overseas and get their asses kicked a few times in some rough circumstances. . Right now, I cannot educate them, because they don’t want to hear anything I have to say. There is also a great possibility that they will be lost forever to Betaland! This way of thinking is sad and more common than I ever believed!

[Saladin]

(07-06-2012 02:14 AM)Beachsidejarl Wrote:  

(07-06-2012 12:56 AM)torontokid Wrote:  

I guess Queen's in the 80s didn't have the same ratio...

The one side effect of feminism that I like is that college ratios are utterly in favor of males(60:40 female to male ratio in most Canadian Universities), which means college game for college student is much easier than the cockfest that most bars and club are in many cities.

This.

Also, girls at my institution are not ugly. Then again I'm in Uppsala and my university is about 75 % female. Most of them are really fit, young blonde girls in the 18-22 age range.

And even if I grew up with these kinds of girls, it's hard not to notice how common a HB9 or HB10 are. The thing is, you do get used to it, because you have to. And that in of itself is a bit of a plus because you cant really get intimidated by HB9s in other nations because you've seen hotter girls all day long on campus and she might be rare in her country but not in yours.

Also, everyone whines about feminism. Well, in Sweden, feminism country #1, things are pretty relaxed. A lot of guys in these discussions carry some kind of mental ghost in their minds which they are fighting against which has no real connection to reality.

Then again, feminism isn't that 'in' anymore in Sweden, and hasn't been for quite some years. The basic notions of equality remain, but that's in our cultural DNA. Scandinavia was very early with rights to women to vote etc. We've always had an egalitarian outlook. And as far as I can tell, relations here between men and women are very sound and good.

Women expect you to do more than they do in other, more reactionary, Western countries. But you're also given a much freer role as a man, instead of being an ATM machine who never sees his family. That being said, wimps are not appreciated. Including by feminists. That much is right. But that doesnt mean women in general fantasize about being beaten or something, as some people here seem to think. That says more about your own problems with women and trouble to relate to them.

Bottomline:

Things have never been better for a dedicated guy. Girls and guys share much more, both at work, at home and spend time together socially in more relaxed ways. At least here in Sweden. I'd say 40 % of my friends are girls, and I'm not even a very social guy. I'm a pretty nerdy kind of guy with nerdy interests. I know guys who could easily get more than 70 % female friends but who actively work against it because they want more guy friends.

But again, this is a Sweden-centric perspective. Gender relations here are much better and more sound. We don't have the paranoia of WHO WILL BE THE BREADWINNER. Stuff like that will get you mildly ridiculed here, and for good reason. I do see a lot of progress in these areas in urban, educated centers like NYC. Especially in Brooklyn, where I have a friend living right now. I'm not that acquainted with Canada. My sense is that since the oil boom, it has gotten a bit less progressive and even a bit thuggish there. But I could be wrong. What say you, Torontokid?

I'm hoping to take a year abroad at Upsalla. How is the scene there?

The gender relations in Sweden are definitely different. The problem with Canadian and American girls is that they are taught they are princesses deserving of everything while also being taught they are strong independent women. Men and women here generally are much more distrusting of each other gender(other than the white knight males). Unlike Scandinavia where I saw average dudes with cute girls, in Toronto its pretty much a small group of alphas with cute girls.

Feminism here is outright hateful, and its frustrating. I guess Sweden's different in terms of gender relations. From what I say from my few days there was much friendlier girls who were more feminine. Then again, I didn't see any converse shoes when I was there(which is what seems to have angered Roosh).

[Kona]

(07-07-2012 02:24 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  

elite universities try to shove things down your throat and you must ignore what you are being taught and instead agree on paper and forget it as soon as you walk out the door.

This happened at the school I went to.

If you've read any of the posts I've wrote on here you can tell I went to an elite university. It wasn't in the Ivy league but I think it was a top 15.

When I was there was the 1996 presidential election. It was as though all we talked about in every class was Bill Clinton. Chemistry; we were talking Bill Clinton. It was strange.

I can't comment on much else except that I ran through every girl at that place. The social scene at the school was based on the frat boys, who I couldn't stand. I had the exotic factor going so I played that up. I just really hung out with black guys that just lived in St. Louis and didn't go to the school at all and sold weed.

Aloha!

[Beachsidejarl]

(07-07-2012 09:15 PM)torontokid Wrote:  

The gender relations in Sweden are definitely different. The problem with Canadian and American girls is that they are taught they are princesses deserving of everything while also being taught they are strong independent women. Men and women here generally are much more distrusting of each other gender(other than the white knight males). Unlike Scandinavia where I saw average dudes with cute girls, in Toronto its pretty much a small group of alphas with cute girls.

Feminism here is outright hateful, and its frustrating. I guess Sweden's different in terms of gender relations. From what I say from my few days there was much friendlier girls who were more feminine. Then again, I didn't see any converse shoes when I was there(which is what seems to have angered Roosh).

No converse shoes? They're all over the place! You must have been in the wrong crowds.

As for gender relations, it's always a subjective thing. I can't speak for Canadians but I often hear from Swedes that come to America that everyone is more social there, however they also say it tends to be pretty shallow.

While in Sweden it's harder to really get to know people but there's a lot less prestige etc here. That isn't just about gender but also about class etc. We're a fairly egalitarian society(just check our gini ratio). That crosses into all kinds of domains.

And yes, the cute girl with average guy is common here. Although, as I said, beware of exporting North American ideals to Sweden. One of the obsessions in North America is who makes the most etc. All that is nonsense in Sweden. Swedish girls are, generally speaking, placing a much higher premium on your ability to be a good boyfriend and a good man in general. That's why so-called 'average guys' are hooking up with girls who may be out of their league from a superficial level but they indeed be viewed as a better catch from a social perspective.

My amateur psychobabble theory is that the problem in North America is that feminism over there is without a fertile ground.
Namely, in America, at least, it's a very cutthroat society. It's a bit everyone's on their own. So talking about gender equality has a slightly shallow ring to it.

My understanding of Canada is that it has better welfare than America but it's increasingly becoming less and less North European in it's social and economic mores and more like America in it's culture, economic outlook etc. So it may be following the same pattern.

But then again, feminism or no feminism, Sweden and Northern Europe has always had a very strong emphasis on equality between genders. Swedish and Norwegian women were the first in the world to vote. And even during the centures before that, Swedish women had it best in the world. Swedish farmers during the Medieval times were treated very well and were often independent, unlike the thuggish conditions in central Europe.

My larger point here is that it may be a culture we've had for centuries. And feminism may have relatively little to do with it. So it may be wrong to acuse feminism of the poisoned state of affairs between genders in NA, but it may also be wrong to attribute credit to feminism for the opposite in Sweden.

But that's just speculation. Still, it makes me curious. I'll try to contact a few guys I know in Canada to speak about you say. It sounds pretty dramatic.

[Juan Antonio]

Tyler Durden of RSD wrote about the Queen's University campus dynamic back in 2003.


Subject: QueensU Campus Dynamic
Date: April 6th, 2003 06:52:00 AM (EDT)
Group: alt.seduction.fast.general
Author: TylerDurden
Email/Info: <mASF profile>

This article is under strict © copyright rules. For personal use only.


Didn't feel like posting a field report tonight, because it was a typical good night (as opposed to a typical bad night of course).. This is the first time I've had a chance to spend extended time in Kingston since I started travelling more, and it reminded me of how different the college dymamic is than everywhere else.

Thought I'd post about it, so I can look back and read it out of my archive someday.

I'd love to hear about any similar experiences that anyone else has in their college towns, either now or back when they were there.

QUEENSU:

I live in a town of 120,000 people - Kingston.

45,000 are students.

20,000 are prison inmates (Kingston is Canada's prison town)

Of the 45,000 students:

15,000 at Queen's University (most elitist-snob school in Canada). 90% of Queens students are living there only for school.. grew up elsewhere.

15,000 at St. Lawrence technical college

15,000 at Royal Military College


Now other than the students, my town is the most WHITE TRASH town ever in Canada. NOBODY from school ever ventures "North of Princess St .", because its pure white trash, and there's nothing there. Buildings are run down, etc etc.. Huge contrast between the student area, and the regular area.

Everyone at my school is supersocial /phoney. The first thing that everyone says in a conversation is "what year are you in? what major? what are you doing after?" Another statistic -> I've had this convo over 20,000 times probably in four years.

NOBODY is rude or mean to eachother , because EVERYBODY knows EVERYBODY. We're all in the same student block area. At the same time, not that many people overly like eachother. It's pretty fake.

Anyway, the first thing that the frosh (first year) girls do when they get here, is look to "hook-up" ASAP.

On a daily basis, I get comments like:

-"what year are you in? cause I've hooked up with a guy in first year, second year, and fourth year.. if you're in third year, we can hookup tonight"

-"my friends are all hooking up, but my boyfriend back home calls me everyday so I feel bad.. but you know what? I'm sick of it.. I want to hook-up"

-"I only hooked up with 5 guys this year.. That sounds bad, but its really not.. my housemate hooked up with over 20.."

-"I've hooked up with like 10 guys this year, but I've never hooked up with another girl.. well me and my housemate have made out, and sometimes we sleep together and stuff... but I want to find a guy to hookup for a threesome with us, because I'm sick of my parents telling me what to do"

-"I'm like Baskin & Robbins.. I have to hookup with 31 flavours this year.."

-"do you know Julianne ? yeah she likes you? OK I can trust you.. I'm so drunk... I need a guy to bring me home, cause I really need to get out of here.... don't worry, I'm not trying to hookup with you.. ummmm, I swear.. so can you take me home?"

-"you're not leaving this early are you? I'm sooo drunk, and I'm feeling so naughty.. I'm scared that I'll hookup with the wrong guy tonight.. can you take me home so I don't do something stupid?"

I mean seriously, this shit is like DAYTONA SPRING BREAK up here.. the mentality is "we're away from home, we're not responsible, and EVERYONE is doing it so its 'OK'".

Of course you need GAME to exploit this. Usually 1 guy will fuck 3/4s of the chicks (campus-leaders, athletes, socialites - all shit Eddy and I fit into in either one way or another obviously as we pre-plan and manipulate all of this), so if you want to get in on this action you have to be "that cool social proofed guy".

It's because 90% of students are from out of town, and were very studious during high-school.. So they're letting loose for the first time. They dance up on the speakers at clubs, and lez out, and go nuts, usually 4 nights a week.


Then the other thing here is SOCIAL PROOF.

Everybody knows EVERYBODY. If you do something stupid, it doesn't go away. But if you know the right people, you're IN.

I like to exploit the "supersocial/phoney" aspect here, and make friends with all the hotties that I meet. I won't fuck them no matter what. I just use them for social proof, and to get them to take care of me.

There's an entire house with 7 girls in it where I'm literally the PIMP of the house. I go over there, and I've got girls CRAWLING all over me to serve me. I also have a bunch of side pivots, GFs of my friends, etc etc, that love hanging out with me and getting all wet watching me making cocky comments to other girls, and getting to feel cool being around me.

So social proof is "in" here.


Another funny thing is the St. Lawrence Technical College girls seducing the QueensU guys.

On any given night that I go out, I'll get solicited for sex for some cutie St. Lawrence girl, who I KNOW does this everynight.

They prey on QueensU guys, and scour the campus hoping to find guys to bring them home.

But this is FUNNY, because the QueensU girls go to the Royal Military College, to find buffed military guys to go home with.

Tonight, I had 2 St . Lawrence College predator girls offer to "hookup". I'm looking down at my wrist right now this second, looking at this wrist-bracelet of one of them gave to me, in hopes that we'd "hookup" later in the night, figuring that I wasn't so much of an asshole to leave the club without giving it back.

Again, this leads us back to SOCIAL PROOF. The first girl, I told her that I loved her and was going to marry her. Her friends didn't object of course, because they knew that little Mel was going to be out seducing guys tonight. So
I took her around the entire club, and made out with her in front of ALL the hottest QueensU HB9s in the club, and the hot bar-staff and all that. Then I took the next St. Lawrence predator chick and did the same thing, so that every hottie in the club would see who is the man.

Then I chatted up the entire club, and got in cool with everyone, so that the smoking hot little bar-staffer chick would come up to me and try to chat me. I retorted "I don't think that we'd get along... you're a dork.. but you're cute, so I still love you.. you're like my bratty little sister whose annoying but I love anyway"..

I worked it with all the hotties , who were ever-eager to chat me and get to know me, after I had all the social proof. The night ended well, and all the usual desired end results were accomplished (hint - its 6am right now while I'm typing this).

Now if I had brought my PIVOT HAREM with me, and had 5-10 girls on my lap, I would have had three-four times that effect. Actually, I suppose wouldn't have had to even work the club.

Now my homeboy whitedragonPUA is on the VARSITY SPORTS TEAM.. He just goes out to the gatherings, and there's all these alpha guys with GROUPIES crawling on them. They all have girlfriends, but pickup and fuck other girls right in front of them, and tell them to "shut the fuck up" when they complain.

the whitedragonPUA fucked some rugby chicks earlier this year, and forget their names and never talk to them again. They'd all moan and groan to him, because they'd hear about the other chicks, but he'd just laugh at them and say ARGHHHHHH.

Meanwhile his rep grew, and he fucked more chicks.

He was also famous for fucking this girl, and then the next morning jerking off in her bed while she was in the shower, and cumming all over it. She came back and said "did you jerkoff".. He was like "ARGHHHHH.. what are you talking about???"

This just builds more and more reputation, and it snowballs.
So next this brings me to day-sarging...

When I sarge girls on campus, there is a SET RULE that its "OK" to be sarged by QueensU guys, because they're part of the "collective QueensU cult".. We're "in".

Basically, I just walk up to chicks, make a C&F comment, spin them around a bit, and wait for them to say the most reliably predictable comments----

"what's your name?"
"what's your major?"
"what year are you in?"
"what residence did you live in?"
"what's your plans for after school is over?"
"do you go out? what clubs?" (of the grand total of 5 worthwhile clubs we have
here)
"do you know x-girl? what about x-guy?"

You pass these questions, and you have INSTANT RAPPORT. WHY? Because you're a "QueensU-guy" and you have had the exact same experiences as she has, given that you've lived here.

You'll get invited into the chick's house NO QUESTION, and if you have tight endgame (IOW: you go for it), you'll "hookup".

Also, if you're in QueensU, you're obviously motivated and going places in life.

50% of QueensU graduates get MARRIED to other QueensU people. It's hard for QueensU people to even RELATE to people not at QueensU.. "whoa... you didn't go to QueensU? I'm sorry.. don't worry, I'm sure you'll still find a job somewhere"

So this is a fun place to go to college for sure - white ivory tower, etc etc..

Of course, you have to have SKILLS to get in here, just like anywhere else. In first year I had no skills, and just watched in awe of guys who did. But if you have them, you do really well. It just takes some time to get momentum.

For a while, I had ZERO GAME in ANY town other than Kingston, because I relied heavily on the scene here. Now that I've travelled, I can walk into any place and still get great results. Luckily I've had guys like whitedragonpua, Papa, Mystery, No9, Twentysix, Superslicka, and Manifestis, all who I've spent alot of time winging with, to help get me up to speed on alot of shit. Everyone on
this board has helped me alot too, even guys who I've disagreed with - solely by virtue of their motivating me to cash out what I think, forcing me to internalize it better.

But coming back to Kingston in the past few weeks has sure reminded me how easy it is here, and that I shouldn't take it for granted.

whitedragonPUA and I have got another year here still though, so that leaves me plenty of time to "hookup" with many more adventures..


-TD


http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/sea...6dateto%3D