[worldwidetraveler]

(05-21-2012 05:23 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

Worldwide, it's not hate, it's my opinion. It's very easy to disqualify another person's opinion by calling him a hater.

I don't have any scientific studies to back my statement up, it's been my observation.

I understand that working out hard gives people satisfaction...but as with anything, you can overdo it.

I consider calling people insecure and having nothing going for them simply because they enjoy bodybuilding as hating.

It sounds like you don't have anything you're passionate about.

Do you consider guys spending too much time gaming women insecure as well?

[velkrum]

So many of you have turned this into a "bodybuilding vs. athlete" physique argument. It's not about that.

Some of you assume that bodybuilders are settling for the women they are with because YOU don't find them attractive.

Too many of you believe if you like a girl other guys must feel the same.
Too many of you think if you DON'T like a girl other guys must be settling if they are with her.

Not enough of you seem to realize that men choose who they want. They don't choose what other guys want (women behave like that).

Having a muscular body and choosing women that share your interests is not insecure. Sitting behind a computer screen negatively criticizing another mans woman and assuming you know what type of girl he can pull, is.

[MikeCF]

(05-21-2012 05:05 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

9 out of ten women will favor the physique of a Sebastian Chabal ( french rugby player) over the meat head look.

So 6'3", 250 pounds is...merely "fit and toned."

Ok, man, you win.

(At trolling.)

[rudebwoy]

WWW - you are stating "facts" with no proof of evidence to back it up, isn't that french rugby player a big dude.?

Using Cristiano Ronaldo as an example is not really fair, dude has looks, bucket of cash and talent. What next another reference to Brad Pitt in Fight club.!

Size does matter, this is like the penis size argument. Roosh talks about this in his latest article, it may not be the size entirely but there is certain amount of confidence you get from having size or being in better shape than most guys.

[_DC_]

(05-21-2012 08:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

WWW - you are stating "facts" with no proof of evidence to back it up, isn't that french rugby player a big dude.?

Using Cristiano Ronaldo as an example is not really fair, dude has looks, bucket of cash and talent. What next another reference to Brad Pitt in Fight club.!

Size does matter, this is like the penis size argument. Roosh talks about this in his latest article, it may not be the size entirely but there is certain amount of confidence you get from having size or being in better shape than most guys.

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

The guys in the first post are cartoonishly big. Using your analogy, yes, most guys would feel a lot more confidence with 20 lbs of extra muscle on their frames. They'd also feel more confident with an 1" or maybe 2" on their dicks. But there comes a point when its just ridiculous, like dudes with 10"+ cocks who can't even physically function and have to stuff only the first half of their flaccid snakes in!

In any event, putting on 10-20lbs of muscle would help just about any guy who doesn't work out frequently or at all, I don't debate that.

[worldwidetraveler]

(05-21-2012 08:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

WWW - you are stating "facts" with no proof of evidence to back it up, isn't that french rugby player a big dude.?

You got your wires crossed. I didn't post anything about a french rugby player.

Please quote me these so call "facts" I have supplied with no proof.

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 06:21 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 05:05 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

9 out of ten women will favor the physique of a Sebastian Chabal ( french rugby player) over the meat head look.

So 6'3", 250 pounds is...merely "fit and toned."

Ok, man, you win.

(At trolling.)

Exactly...

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:28 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

WWW - you are stating "facts" with no proof of evidence to back it up, isn't that french rugby player a big dude.?

Using Cristiano Ronaldo as an example is not really fair, dude has looks, bucket of cash and talent. What next another reference to Brad Pitt in Fight club.!

Size does matter, this is like the penis size argument. Roosh talks about this in his latest article, it may not be the size entirely but there is certain amount of confidence you get from having size or being in better shape than most guys.

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

The guys in the first post are cartoonishly big. Using your analogy, yes, most guys would feel a lot more confidence with 20 lbs of extra muscle on their frames. They'd also feel more confident with an 1" or maybe 2" on their dicks. But there comes a point when its just ridiculous, like dudes with 10"+ cocks who can't even physically function and have to stuff only the first half of their flaccid snakes in!

In any event, putting on 10-20lbs of muscle would help just about any guy who doesn't work out frequently or at all, I don't debate that.

And having a 10" cock doesn't mean it will be flacid...

[Chad Daring]

How about this.

• Dont be a skinny fag
• Dont be a fatass
  

Whatever that leaves, pick one, train hard at it, and be happy.

Some girls will go head over heals for the 275lbs bruiser, some girls will rip their panties off for the toned svelte swimmer. Stop trying to fuck all the girls and worry about the girls who want to fuck you.

[rhodey]

(05-21-2012 09:59 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  

How about this.

• Dont be a skinny fag
• Dont be a fatass
  

Whatever that leaves, pick one, train hard at it, and be happy.

Some girls will go head over heals for the 275lbs bruiser, some girls will rip their panties off for the toned svelte swimmer. Stop trying to fuck all the girls and worry about the girls who want to fuck you.

Good advice.

[Hooligan Harry]

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

The proof is in the pudding.

And unless you are actually packing a bit of muscle yourself or hang with guys who do, you wont have any proof or know what the hell you are talking about. Muscle is an overt display of physical dominance, health, strength and testosterone. Just like a huge pair or firm tits is an overt display of estrogen, youth and female fertility.

Women dont like muscle?

We know. They love a sensitive guy with a sense of humour. You can see it on all the online polls and hear it in all the conversations they have.

[_DC_]

(05-22-2012 12:16 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

The proof is in the pudding.

And unless you are actually packing a bit of muscle yourself or hang with guys who do, you wont have any proof or know what the hell you are talking about. Muscle is an overt display of physical dominance, health, strength and testosterone. Just like a huge pair or firm tits is an overt display of estrogen, youth and female fertility.

Women dont like muscle?

We know. They love a sensitive guy with a sense of humour. You can see it on all the online polls and hear it in all the conversations they have.

I have two good friends I go out with often. One is buff and gets laid a lot but the women are usually not great quality. The other doesn't really even work out at all and is not in great shape but is tall. He slays much better looking women.

We all have anecdotes.

"Women dont like muscle?"

Do people even read posts anymore? When did I say this. I admitted that 10-20lbs will help just about any guy who doesn't work out. I'm saying that being huge is not better than being lean and fit (not scrawny).

[Hooligan Harry]

(05-22-2012 12:27 AM)_DC_ Wrote:  

(05-22-2012 12:16 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

The proof is in the pudding.

And unless you are actually packing a bit of muscle yourself or hang with guys who do, you wont have any proof or know what the hell you are talking about. Muscle is an overt display of physical dominance, health, strength and testosterone. Just like a huge pair or firm tits is an overt display of estrogen, youth and female fertility.

Women dont like muscle?

We know. They love a sensitive guy with a sense of humour. You can see it on all the online polls and hear it in all the conversations they have.

I have two good friends I go out with often. One is buff and gets laid a lot but the women are usually not great quality. The other doesn't really even work out at all and is not in great shape but is tall. He slays much better looking women.

We all have anecdotes.

"Women dont like muscle?"

Do people even read posts anymore? When did I say this. I admitted that 10-20lbs will help just about any guy who doesn't work out. I'm saying that being huge is not better than being lean and fit (not scrawny).

Once again, like I said earlier, people need to stop equating everything directly.

It really is not different to you saying money counts for shit because you know two rich bankers who never only bang trolls.

Its part of the package, and a million bucks in your bank account is going to do far more good than 20k. Likewise, 30lbs of muscle is going to do far more good than your skinny jeans. Muscle alone wont mean much, but it does open doors for you and it does make things easier.

But guys try and rationalise their shortcommings. They do it with looks, money, everything

[J_D]

I don't have enough posts under my belt to share links but I think that Danger and Play has a really good article on this, basically just reiterating not to be obese or anorexic.

If you want some examples of girls swooning over a man's physique google Swolebrah 69. He's a poster on the bodybuilding dot com forum who has done some epic internet trolling using pictures of some dudes who are fucking ripped, it is also hilarious and worth the read.

[sheesh]

(05-22-2012 12:16 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

Women dont like muscle?

We know. They love a sensitive guy with a sense of humour. You can see it on all the online polls and hear it in all the conversations they have.

Most women like strong guys, what they don't like is body builders who spend more time on their appearance than women. I'm out of here.

[NeVerGymLess]

^^^ I just picked up a hot yoga teacher at a nude beach on the weekend. Went out with her at night and every time she introduced me to her friends she would be like , OMG , you should see his abs . " At the moment , I'm 6 '2 195 pounds , below 10 % BF . Also on the lean-gain diet.

[rhodey]

(05-22-2012 06:14 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

(05-22-2012 12:16 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

(05-21-2012 08:36 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  

Its all conjecture because I don't see any facts as to women preferring a huge built dude versus an athletic but slim dude either. There was a long discussion that I was the OP on where a 1000+ person internet survey backed up the smaller build as being ideal. That, of course, was completely bullshit and one persons opinion is much better than that.

Women dont like muscle?

We know. They love a sensitive guy with a sense of humour. You can see it on all the online polls and hear it in all the conversations they have.

Most women like strong guys, what they don't like is body builders who spend more time on their appearance than women. I'm out of here.

Some body builders are "strong guys" who work out 3 times a week for an hour a clip. In fact the majority of dudes a see farting around the gym for 2 hours a day usually are not training hard, taking 5 minute breaks between sets and generally look like shit.

[ManAbout]

(05-21-2012 04:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  

In Toronto most meatheads are pulling low quality tail for how much work they put in.

This is exactly what I see in Toronto as well. I've noticed it enough times to conclude that there is in fact some truth to it. The biggest guys tend to have very average women. This is specially true of muscle dudes in their 30s and 40s. Often I see a big massive guy in his 30s and think, damn this guy must be pulling some serious 20 year old tail. But, nope, he is with the same average 30 year old chick as the fat accountant fellow. At the most, I see them with overly muscly unattractive body builder type girls.

The guys that are with the type of girls that I want are the athletic ones who have muscular bodies without being freaks of nature. They are invariably in the 170 to 190 lb range. 200+ lb dudes are banging 6s and 7s.

[Chad Daring]

Another thing I Haven't seen mentioned yet, is that some guys might just not give a fuck.

If a guy spends 5+ hours a week in the gym becoming strong and ripped its not implausible to think that guy might not see it as worth his time to deal with all the shit that comes with trying to nail a "really hot" girl when he can just as easily walk up to a girl who's a bit better then average, and passes the boner test, and just flex and point to the bedroom.

I see a lot of guys on this forum who miss a big key point. Validating yourself relative to how hot the girls you fuck are, is inherently pedestalizing those girls.

I'd much rather fuck a 6 or a 7 who takes no work to bang then a 9 who requires me to spend tons of mental, physical, and financial energy.

[Moma]

(05-22-2012 06:14 AM)sheesh Wrote:  

Most women like strong guys, what they don't like is body builders who spend more time on their appearance than women. I'm out of here.

How do you know this? Unless you have been both scrawny and highly muscular, how would you know the difference?

I have been both 'scrawny' and muscular and I have seen BLATANT positive results in the pull department.

To give you an active example, I have matched up with an old friend here and we have been hitting the gym like wolves.

I am swelling up nicely again and I am getting eye fcuked regularly in public.

I pulled a lizard the other day on the bus going into Scarborough who was staring at me like she had seen a ghost.

This was also the case in Europe (pulling lizards from the road).

My word to you muscle naysayers is this: Once you taste the power (become significantly muscular), you will know how intoxicating it is.

Women who genuinely don't like powerful muscular men, by and large, are still girls and not yet matured into women.

[OGNorCal707]

I know I might catch some flak for this, but I think it's a cold hard truth to some extent (at least in the U.S.), if you're under 5 ft 11 in., you are not tall and you need to compensate by building up your physique.

I don't want to be labeled a "height troll", but from my experience and what I observe here in the U.S., women like and prefer tall men. For the sake of generality I'm going to consider tall above 5 ft. 11 in. (although 6 ft 1 in- 6 ft 5 is ideal), if you're below that height you're either average or "short".

For whatever reason I live in an area with what seems to be an unusual amount of cute tall women, (not unusual to see 5 ft 10 in honeys), I barely check in at 5 ft 10.5 in., and I've had women that were taller, my height, or slightly shorter, reject me because "I wasn't tall enough". Women rarely date shorter men, that is a fact. To guys who have pulled taller women, I give you kudos, but that is outside the norm.

So if you're average height, and especially if you're short, you need to compensate, by building up your physique. The three things women rate men's looks on are: Face (are you handsome?), height (are you 6 ft. 3 in. or 5 ft 3 in.?), and your physique (are you a toothpick, do you have a massive gut, are you ripped with huge shoulders, chest, arms?)

The reality is we are all competing against each other in one form or another. When you step into the bar or club with the intent on pick up, you are in a competing sexual market. To get the best results you need to have the highest value possible.

If you can't grow 4 in. to be over 6 ft., you can do other things to compensate, you can hit the gym and build up your muscles, not only do women find a muscular physique attractive, on a evolutionary psychological level it shows women that you are "alpha" you are strong, capable of defending her, thus making her feel safe. Why do you think women like tall guy, height isn't the same as a handsome face, big muscles, or a huge dick, it doesn't serve any true purpose, other than making women feel safe. If you are tall, you tower over people, on an evolutionary psychological level, women want to be protected, they feel safe with taller men, the height is interpreted as dominance, strength, and protection, in other words "alphaness."

If the idea of compensating for a lack of something irks you, then "reframe" it, in the sense that by building up your physique is a way of bettering yourself, to become your "best and most attractive self."

At the end of the day, we all need an edge, if you've gotten an unattractive face, maybe you're tall, if you're tall, but a scrawny toothpick then you need to fix your nutrition and hit the weights, if you're broke and have a shitty job, you need to get a new job or an education, if you're handsome, but have poor grooming and dress like shit, then you need to hit a high end mall buy some new clothes, and get a hair cut, shave, shower, etc.

Point is, be your best self, lift weights or follow whatever fitness routine works for you. There is no definite best physique, some guys will want to be yoked out body builders, other big grizzly bear power lifters, others more slimed and toned swimmers. Do what you love and what works for you. Some guys would probably do better with the grizzly bear look, while others with the swimmer. No need to go on steroids and turn into a human pit bull, just exercise, be healthy, and give yourself that edge by being in good physical condition.

[velkrum]

dang, lots'a quality posts in this thread !

it's also healthy to have respect for other guys choices.

Trolls for whatever reason make the decision to not get big (muscular) and feel the need to disrespect other guys who do put in effort to get big.

Telling a bunch of people, "every single muscular dude I see is with average chicks who are into the lifestyle," doesn't mean jack shit to anybody !

Find me the guys who are complaining about having too much muscle or not being able to find a girl they like because they are too big.

Just like OG said, unless you were a little guy that got big and got rejected for having a great body, you don't get a free pass to judge.

[kosko]

Bro I know a few. One dude whom isn't a friend of mine but somebody I grew up with competes and can't no ass. His ex would come to me for D always complaining that she was dating a robot. This man could of split me in half, but you know what? When he did find out she cheated he broke down crying like a bitch.

The lifestyle thing is big tho. You yourself even go after it. You have made threads about fit women. It's not even a bad thing but take my posts on this issue with a grain of salt. I still feel muscles help overall to improve attraction but it's not magnet that many in this thread are alluding to. Game still is needed.

[rudebwoy]

OGNorCal707 and Moma summed it up nicely.

By being "big" I am not referring to the obvious juice monkey no neck look, I am talking a build similar to what velkrum has on his signature (minus a few of the cuts).

Women get alot more touchy feeling with me now than when I was skinny (slim)!

[theoogabear]

different women prefer different things on men just like different guys prefer different things on women.