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Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...
#1

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

I've been a lurker here for a while and you guys seem to really know what's going on. That said, I've often debated my position and current situation and asking others that don't have a similar sexual past or believe in only monogamy often say the same old shit. Basically you're made out to be an asshole, ungrateful, objectifying, untrustworthy idiot. But why? Sex is natural, sex is fun, and I can't fully accept the popular belief that sex should equal love in most people's lives. A lot of people just seem to "do what you're supposed to do" and that scares the shit out of me, esp. since I feel as we get older my LTR is slowly moving that direction.

That said I'm hoping some of those skilled in the game and have had experiences more like mine (casual sex, FWB, etc) can give their feedback on my current situation and my thoughts. Apologies if this is long, so I'll try to keep it as short as possible:

I'm in my late 20s and have been with the same girl for close to 9 years. I met her way back early in undergrad, she was a virgin, and most she did with guys before me was make out. For some reason she struck me as someone worth pursuing (and to be honest before her I rarely pursued girls, they ended up pursuing me and as a teen at the time that was damn awesome to me) and thus I set out to pursue her which was pretty easy.

Her friends warned me she didn't put out and thats just how it was. My reputation as a guy who had a decent amount of FWB and casual sex was well known and the girl quickly learned this but dated me anyways. Took a year and a half to have sex with her, to this day she points out how I pursued her and waited for her yet that wasn't expected given my past experiences with women.

So a brief run down on my sexual experience before the LTR:

Like most straight guys it was like discovering the meaning of life when I discovered the female body. By my mid teens girls were pursuing me with little to no effort on my part and so I had a series of short relationships and off and on fuck buddies and a fling or two. Literally once girl's locked onto me it was them initiating the sex , not me. At one time one fuck buddy stepped aside for a friend who wanted to date me and then came back around after the friend dumped me.

So basically my view of sex and girls was "it's casual sex, sex can be without love, and friends can fuck." I'm on speaking terms with almost every girl I fucked, and consider myself on good terms with most of them. Interestingly enough, every girl I "dated" and wasn't a fuck buddy ended up dumping me or we drifted apart, I was never a dumper apparently.

I even fucked some older girl in college like a week before meeting my current LTR and it got around the social circles and she knew it and STILL was cool with dating me.

Anyways my current LTR is pretty chill, we've been together so long it almost would seem weird to not be with her. We started out with more in common and changed over the years. Sexually she's a bit dull, and with both of us being busy we don't have much sex. I initially thought she was a clinger but not really, we pretty much do our own thing, she doesn't get jealous, she doesn't protest if I want to go out with friends, she acknowledges my female friends, and basically lets me do what I want and I the same towards her. I have tried to end it with her a few times, usually around sex issues but for some reason things ended up coming back together. Other than that we get along quite well, she's stereotypically the "girl that every guy ideally wants if they decide to settle down" because theres little to no bullshit, there's no chain, and she's nice. We've never officially said we're exclusive, but we're girlfriend and boyfriend which seems to everyone to automatically mean "exclusive."

I feel like once we started living together a few years ago my desire to get back out and get some variety in my sex life again came back full force. She knows my views on sex as being possible without love and my support of those who engage in fwb and casual sex. I struggle to justify fucking just one girl the rest of my life and sometimes reason in my head that sex isn't that important or "required" for her so why am I depriving myself? I'm a bit of a nihilist in that I don't believe in monogamy per say, and I believe sex can be just like a glass of wine or a cold beer, it can be shared among friends or new people and it's fun, it's all just pleasure because in the end we all die and cease to exist.

I'm always checking out new girls and have a few old girlfriends/fuck buddies and possibles that essentially would fuck me but won't because of the LTR. So in a way I'd like to get back to some old fuck buddies and find a few new ones for fun :

-One is a fuck buddy who comes and goes when my relationships end. She won't fuck me now because she doesn't want to "hurt or ruin relationships" yet she used to fuck me behind her boyfriend's back.

- One ex was a beast in the bedroom, I'm talking pornstar shit. I'd probably get it again, but again she wouldn't "want to interfere."

- One friend has wanted to fuck me since we were in high school. She was too shy and another girl beat her too it. We've fooled around making out and shit before, my LTR has no idea but it's interesting my LTR says "I really hate that girl and I don't know why."

- One friend I lost touch with from high school , we crushed on each other a bit and past two years reconnected and hang out. I think it's mostly platonic but if I was single I believe she'd be DTF as long as guys don't get attached to her.

- One friend older than me just enjoys sex. She may be looking for more but she could be a nice FWB.

So basically most girls I know I can fuck won't out of "respect." And fair enough, I recall telling my LTR once that if I wanted to fuck another girl I'd break up with her before cheating on her, unless of course she was cool with it. The making out girl, I don't know how she's react if she knew, it's not sex.

It's easy to say "oh just break up with her and take your chances" or "just go behind her back." Something stops me from going behind her back, it's almost like she's too nice and too deserving of some monogamy loving dude who never fucked another girl in his life. So out of respect I suppose, I can't bring myself to fuck another girl.

The other option is to figure out if I can get her to accept that I want to fuck a few other girls, safely of course. She wouldn't have to know about it if she didn;'t want. I base this option on the fact that she knows fully of my sexual past, my views on sex, and that she was far from my first fuck. Maybe she's looked past that, is totally in love, or I'm wrong and she just stays because "it's been so long."

As I've thought about this desire to get back into the casual sex game while figuring out how to keep or gently drop the LTR I've considered a few changes that might have prompted this resurgence in desire to sleep around:

Once we started living together I def felt more cramped. Not controlled or held in, but just like my style was cramped. Before we lived together I'd say her on some weekends and some weeknights and rest of time I did whatever I wanted. Now that we live together I feel like theres an expectation to include her in plans more (even though she insists I can go out with friends or do what I want as long as I spend some time with her) and less ability to just "do whatever I feel like."

I distinctly noticed I see my friends from back home ALOT less since the move in, and spend most of my social time with our mutual friends (who are all cool but it would be a blow to the social circle if her and I broke up...which is probably why I won't fuck behind her back, I'd look like a true asshole instead of just breaking up over another reason). Also friends have been getting married and popping out kids, she's said she wants this one day but wants to get our careers fully going first. Some days I'm like "yeah I'm down" and other days I'm like "no way." Part of me misses the freedom of living alone (or at least not having a girl always living with me) and the freedom of just being able to do whatever,whenever and sometimes I wonder where I'd be had I not met this girl. Other times I think its great and maybe I'm afraid of losing the good sure thing for what I once had before her that isn't guaranteed at all.

Overall she's a great girl, in a way I'm probably a fool for even wanting to ditch such a loyal girlfriend. But we only live once and I feel I can only deny my sexual urges so much, what's so wrong with having a loving relationship then getting purely physical needs met elsewhere and having both? There's just so much in my head right now and people who haven't gamed before, haven't had casual sex with friends, and haven't considered that monogamy isn't everything just don't understand...

Damn that was longer than expected, but if you read through it...any insight, experiences, comments would be very welcome!
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#2

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

Quote: (04-16-2012 01:32 PM)SonicOne Wrote:  

Took a year and a half to have sex with her, to this day she points out how I pursued her and waited for her yet that wasn't expected given my past experiences with women.


I even fucked some older girl in college like a week before meeting my current LTR and it got around the social circles and she knew it and STILL was cool with dating me.

Anyways my current LTR is pretty chill, we've been together so long it almost would seem weird to not be with her. We started out with more in common and changed over the years. Sexually she's a bit dull, and with both of us being busy we don't have much sex. I initially thought she was a clinger but not really, we pretty much do our own thing, she doesn't get jealous, she doesn't protest if I want to go out with friends, she acknowledges my female friends, and basically lets me do what I want and I the same towards her. I have tried to end it with her a few times, usually around sex issues but for some reason things ended up coming back together. Other than that we get along quite well, she's stereotypically the "girl that every guy ideally wants if they decide to settle down" because theres little to no bullshit, there's no chain, and she's nice. We've never officially said we're exclusive, but we're girlfriend and boyfriend which seems to everyone to automatically mean "exclusive."

I feel like once we started living together a few years ago my desire to get back out and get some variety in my sex life again came back full force. She knows my views on sex as being possible without love and my support of those who engage in fwb and casual sex. I struggle to justify fucking just one girl the rest of my life and sometimes reason in my head that sex isn't that important or "required" for her so why am I depriving myself? I'm a bit of a nihilist in that I don't believe in monogamy per say, and I believe sex can be just like a glass of wine or a cold beer, it can be shared among friends or new people and it's fun, it's all just pleasure because in the end we all die and cease to exist.

I'm always checking out new girls and have a few old girlfriends/fuck buddies and possibles that essentially would fuck me but won't because of the LTR. So in a way I'd like to get back to some old fuck buddies and find a few new ones for fun :

-One is a fuck buddy who comes and goes when my relationships end. She won't fuck me now because she doesn't want to "hurt or ruin relationships" yet she used to fuck me behind her boyfriend's back.

- One ex was a beast in the bedroom, I'm talking pornstar shit. I'd probably get it again, but again she wouldn't "want to interfere."

- One friend has wanted to fuck me since we were in high school. She was too shy and another girl beat her too it. We've fooled around making out and shit before, my LTR has no idea but it's interesting my LTR says "I really hate that girl and I don't know why."

- One friend I lost touch with from high school , we crushed on each other a bit and past two years reconnected and hang out. I think it's mostly platonic but if I was single I believe she'd be DTF as long as guys don't get attached to her.

- One friend older than me just enjoys sex. She may be looking for more but she could be a nice FWB.

So basically most girls I know I can fuck won't out of "respect." And fair enough, I recall telling my LTR once that if I wanted to fuck another girl I'd break up with her before cheating on her, unless of course she was cool with it. The making out girl, I don't know how she's react if she knew, it's not sex.

It's easy to say "oh just break up with her and take your chances" or "just go behind her back." Something stops me from going behind her back, it's almost like she's too nice and too deserving of some monogamy loving dude who never fucked another girl in his life. So out of respect I suppose, I can't bring myself to fuck another girl. ........

This forum has some real experts on female behavior and it will be interesting to see what they say about this.

My thoughts, for what their worth:

(1) This girl does want to be a mom someday
(2) You will never be okay with that inside unless you resolve this issue up front
(3) She has as much as told ou already she is ok with you screwing around away from home
(4) She does not want to know the person
(5) You therefore need to cultivate something discreet and probably out-of-town
(6) the cover for this could easily be doing guy stuff with our friends. You clealy need that too.

This chick wanted to be the high-value (hard to lay) mate of a high-value (gets all the women) man, so keep on being the high-value man she craves.

Just do NOT tell her about it, and do not mix social circles as far as women are concerned. You are not being dishonest in this case, because she already clearly knows and accepts who you are. And she will be able to feel the vibe of your renewed predator-hood. So she will know. She just won't have to talk about it, and she will relax in the safety of trusting you to keep things discreet and not put her in the position of awkward conversations with her friends. This is what she wants - having you, and having her friends a little jealous of her. Come back from the road trip with our friends with a gift or flowers sent to her office and you are likely to get frek sex when you come home to.

Remember chicks like to score too - but they just want the Alpha, noone else.

Enjoy!

PS If I'm wrong - if you do try it and she pries noses around and figures it out and then blows up - so what? You'll have given it your best, and you'll know it won't work. Nothing whatsoever to lose. You wo could never have ben happy together in this case.

My advice is to pursue the lifestyle you want with all the cunning, persistence and determination that you used to nail your gf.

Oh - and forget the chicks from the past. You are headed to self-destruct there - stop. They will rat you out in a minute, embarrass your gf, fun's over. The chick from HS is okay if she has no connection to the others.

Good luck.
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#3

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

Quote: (04-16-2012 07:27 PM)WhoZis Wrote:  

This forum has some real experts on female behavior and it will be interesting to see what they say about this.

My thoughts, for what their worth:

(1) This girl does want to be a mom someday
(2) You will never be okay with that inside unless you resolve this issue up front
(3) She has as much as told ou already she is ok with you screwing around away from home
(4) She does not want to know the person
(5) You therefore need to cultivate something discreet and probably out-of-town
(6) the cover for this could easily be doing guy stuff with our friends. You clealy need that too.

This chick wanted to be the high-value (hard to lay) mate of a high-value (gets all the women) man, so keep on being the high-value man she craves.

Just do NOT tell her about it, and do not mix social circles as far as women are concerned. You are not being dishonest in this case, because she already clearly knows and accepts who you are. And she will be able to feel the vibe of your renewed predator-hood. So she will know. She just won't have to talk about it, and she will relax in the safety of trusting you to keep things discreet and not put her in the position of awkward conversations with her friends. This is what she wants - having you, and having her friends a little jealous of her. Come back from the road trip with our friends with a gift or flowers sent to her office and you are likely to get frek sex when you come home to.

Remember chicks like to score too - but they just want the Alpha, noone else.

Enjoy!

PS If I'm wrong - if you do try it and she pries noses around and figures it out and then blows up - so what? You'll have given it your best, and you'll know it won't work. Nothing whatsoever to lose. You wo could never have ben happy together in this case.

My advice is to pursue the lifestyle you want with all the cunning, persistence and determination that you used to nail your gf.

Oh - and forget the chicks from the past. You are headed to self-destruct there - stop. They will rat you out in a minute, embarrass your gf, fun's over. The chick from HS is okay if she has no connection to the others.

Good luck.

Wow, I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of your assessment (as someone who works in mental health, I "should" be better at making these assessments but my game is rusty for sure.).

I didn't realize at the time I was a "high value male" although the fact that one friend introduced me to another chick who she thought would want to fuck me and did so and then did a 180 and asked the same chick if she could get me and that chick backed off for the original friend to fuck me...well that's some competition right there. I should have realized with girls coming at me with little effort on my part that value was here. As I contemplate your feedback even more I realized the girl I fucked right before meeting my current LTR went batshit crazy after I fucked her. We had talked about how it was NSA and FWB, but after the fuck she went around talking shit and was mad I didn't want a relationship. I realized it was competition when you said high value, other girls I was working on at the same time!)

Also I initially disagreed with your assessment that she accepts my behavior and almost expects it as long as she doesn't know. But as I contemplated I realized I was an alpha male for most of my late teens and early 20s...I was usually so laid back and nice that girls didn't see it coming, most girls came to me without effort. Admittedly I was a bit of a jerk back then, I had confidence, swagger, and I was a no bullshit guy...my current LTR always comments on how to her I was such an asshole but she fell for me anyways...I got soft over the years and while I like being nicer in general, I see your overall point...she accepted me being an asshole (or alpha), she knew my history, and she still kept close to me. I appeared to not give a shit and be chill either way, it was a blend of nice guy and untouchable out of her league. However she doesn't have many female friends, most of her friends are guys and most of our social circle in one state is mutual. She was low confidence and shy when I met her, she's a lot more bold and confident now which I love...but I wonder which way it goes for me moving forward...is she really more confident or is it defense against her perception of me?

I have recently regained a lot of my confidence back, for a short period I leaned on her a lot, I had a lot on my plate and she was a foundation of sorts...and it was wrong of me to do that.

I do have some questions regarding your assessment if you have further insight:

3.) I wonder if she's ok with it, naive to it, or it would break her art. She's a badass with a soft spot and I see that a lot. She'll even comment that I'm still an asshole sometimes but she loves me. I wonder if she really is grateful she has a guy who was high value for so long....I know I can get away with anything but I wonder if you could elaborate on how she is giving her ok for me to screw around?

4.) I get a sense she wouldn't' dump me if she found out, but she's be upset, then pissed, than upset, and finally acceptance. But do you really think she thinks this is going on? I do hang out alone (and did a lot more a few years ago) with female friends who are single and one I hooked up with multiple times...could she really figure this out and just look the other way??

5.) The out of town chick doesn't seem interesting in "wrecking relationships" currently.

6.) Maybe I'm confirming your overall assessment, but she pretty much puts up no resistance when I say I'm going out...literally none. As long as I make some time for her..she's happy as hell. Am I incorrectly perceiving her as wanting more when really she's just happy to have me around?

Amazingly I did very little to nail the girls I have nailed and very little to my current LTR...I was pretty much a cocky metal head when I met her, multiple people tried to drive her away from me because while I was "nice" I was "trouble."

Also which high school chick are you referring to? I probably would resist fucking the recently reconnected one only because as a platonic friend she offers insight into the female sex drive very nicely, she'd be valuable and I wouldn't want to fuck that up. The other chick (one who has liked me and got beat to it by another girl back in the day) I believe is scared shitless of my LTR girl and is scared if she ever ratted me out the LTR would write her off as crazy and I'd cut her out of my life...so I may have to try her out next time I'm home.

But heres the thing, I feel some guilt when trying to get into this. Years ago I tried to get a BJ from the distance chick and couldn't pass the boner test, when I was hookin up with the HS past girl we were drunk and it never went beyond making out and feeling up. As I've gotten older I've felt like I'm being "less of a man" by trying those things and yet I want the best of both worlds. Problem I almost feel like my LTR is naive and blindly in love at times. On flip side I wonder if she's savvy to my desires and is just happy to have me...maybe my confidence is low these days.

Any more insight is insanely helpful, do i really just need to get better reads and use my psych background to get more in tune with what my LTR is really thinking?
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#4

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

Quote: (04-16-2012 08:24 PM)SonicOne Wrote:  

...she's savvy to my desires and is just happy to have me

...maybe my confidence is low these days.

Yup.

Yup.
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#5

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

OK, you asked what it was that told me this chick won't mind you geting the occasionally extracurricular BJ. Here are some excerpts of what you wrote:

Quote: (04-16-2012 01:32 PM)SonicOne Wrote:  

...My reputation as a guy who had a decent amount of FWB and casual sex was well known and the girl quickly learned this but dated me anyways.

...So basically my view of sex and girls was "it's casual sex, sex can be without love, and friends can fuck."

I'm on speaking terms with almost every girl I fucked, and consider myself on good terms with most of them.

...I even fucked some older girl in college like a week before meeting my current LTR and it got around the social circles and she knew it and STILL was cool with dating me.

...we pretty much do our own thing, she doesn't get jealous, she doesn't protest if I want to go out with friends, she acknowledges my female friends, and basically lets me do what I want and I the same towards her.

...she's stereotypically the "girl that every guy ideally wants if they decide to settle down" because theres little to no bullshit, there's no chain, and she's nice.

...She knows my views on sex as being possible without love and my support of those who engage in fwb and casual sex. ...I believe sex can be just like a glass of wine or a cold beer, it can be shared among friends or new people and it's fun, it's all just pleasure...

...And fair enough, I recall telling my LTR once that if I wanted to fuck another girl I'd break up with her before cheating on her, unless of course she was cool with it.

...she knows fully of my sexual past, my views on sex, and that she was far from my first fuck.

...she insists I can go out with friends or do what I want as long as I spend some time with her) and less ability to just "do whatever I feel like."....
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#6

Dealing with an LTR and a desire to get back in the game...

But here's the one scary part:

"Part of me misses the freedom of living alone (or at least not having a girl always living with me) and the freedom of just being able to do whatever,whenever and sometimes I wonder where I'd be had I not met this girl."

If you really don't want her long-term, jeez, after 9 years she deserves to know. THAT would make you a jerk. If you don't want to live with her, get out.

But maybe you should play around first. it might solve the problem.

If you want to avoid complications you can set rules for yourself like divorced MILF's only, BJ's only, or out-of-town only.

Don't tell her with words, tell her with the way you fuck her.
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