[americanInEurope]

One of the things that perplexed my German friends about Americans is our ability to take on a task/problem with sometimes no plan, no guarantee of success, the odds against us, and with humiliation possibly being the only outcome. To those guys, nothing is worth really trying unless you're sure it's going to work. Otherwise you're just fucking around and are not serious. I never understood this. Maybe it's because I'm an arrogant American and all that, but when I was a kid we were always told that the reward is worth the effort. That you never know the outcome of something unless you try. History is littered with people who have failed numerous times, but eventually get it right. In fact, American movies are built on that cliche. But why are so many other countries not like that? The only thing more embarrassing to a German (and a lot of other EU countries) than being wrong about something is to fail at something, consistently. It seems like a lot of graduates and young people I talk to just want safety and security over trying something different that could pay off big dividends. When I tell my friends about my plans they sort of just laugh, like yeah right man keep dreaming. How are you ever going to do this and that and this? Because I'm crazy motherfucker would rather fail doing something he likes than do the "right thing" and die a slow death in suburban bliss with the wife and kids. I wonder if this also manifests itself in game.

Also I've noticed this in chicks I've dated. Maybe this is just a flaw in my ability to pick girls, but I've noticed roughly 90% of girls I've dated in my life have been like this. They really wouldn't attempt anything unless victory was 100% assured. If there was a chance, even a small chance, that they'd get embarrassed or be unsuccessful or anything like that most of them won't even attempt it. I had a young German girlfriend who was given a house by her parents but refused to do anything with it out of fear of failure. I gave her many ideas, like renting it out to Americans at high prices that no German would pay (very common in Germany actually) as she would have an advantage of speaking English which would make Americans trust her and like her over the older disgruntled Germans who don't speak any. She wouldn't even attempt it because of obscure reasons and non-guarantee of success. Just the thought of something like that was daunting to her, the thought of having to fix everything and the non assurance that Americans would rent it. So she dropped the whole idea. She could have made hundreds of thousands of euros over this house that's just sitting doing nothing. Another girl is a Japanese girl who had it with Japan and wanted to move to America at all costs. She came over and lived with me for a few months (just left a few weeks ago actually) rent free while she made it happen. But she soon lost confidence as her English wasn't that good. She didn't even try to get a job because of this, and the idea of networking with other Japanese here never crossed her mind. In fact, a lot of things never crossed her mind and I didn't wanna hold her hand, but it seems like every idea I gave her was something she'd never thought about before but she didn't want to try it because of various reasons (she could fail, they could not like her because of her English, she may have to go back to Japan anyway, etc). So she had to go back to Japan with nothing to show for her chance but an emptier bank account. It seems to me like chicks only want to try something if success is pretty much guaranteed. Don't get me wrong, she's a hard working girl. But just in stuff she knows she's already good in.

I wonder if in schools overseas teachers ever ask kids what they want to do before they die, or what do they want to be known for, and shit like that, because when I ask people that they look confused and perplexed trying to answer. I can't believe people seriously don't give questions like that much thought. Most people seem to be contempt with just working everyday and dying. I don't know am I being a dick or what? I think you only get one life on this bitch and I'm trying to sleep when I'm dead. I don't have bucket list or anything, but I'm trying to do everything that I've dreamed of doing since I was a child and if that makes me crazy or selfish then so be it.

[Cincinnatus]

I think the correct balance between Mr. Suburban and pissing-in-the-wind is having a Plan B for life while trying to live out your dream. Roosh, for instance, worked as a microbiologist or some such before living out his dream of being a location-independent income man traveling the world and banging local women. I, for instance, work for a small business earning moderate coin while exploring inexpensive online opportunities for big returns.

Concerning women, most of them simply want security and the path of least difficulty. Women are not hard-wired for stress or survival. The women who tend to make it in cutthroat careers like law or finance tend to be rather masculine.

As far as the relation to such matters and game... My best guess is that the same guys willing to take all-or-nothing risks are also the most willing to make cold approaches, embarass themselves during learning exercises, etc. To maximize my ROI however, I try to enhance myself by learning game and becoming a better man.

[Taciturning]

(03-19-2012 10:48 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

I think the correct balance between Mr. Suburban and pissing-in-the-wind is having a Plan B for life while trying to live out your dream. Roosh, for instance, worked as a microbiologist or some such before living out his dream of being a location-independent income man traveling the world and banging local women. I, for instance, work for a small business earning moderate coin while exploring inexpensive online opportunities for big returns.

This. I have worked as both a soldier (still hold a commission in the Reserves) and a cop. I can go back to either to pay the bills should my increasingly shaky, but lucrative, contracting work go tits up. Plan B or some kind of fallback makes hitting the road or trying risky things much more enjoyable for me. I can see the allure of the pissing in the wind approach to life, but I personally prefer a little prudence.

[Anon-A-Moose]

(03-19-2012 11:17 PM)Taciturning Wrote:  

This. I have worked as both a soldier (still hold a commission in the Reserves) and a cop. I can go back to either to pay the bills should my increasingly shaky, but lucrative, contracting work go tits up. Plan B or some kind of fallback makes hitting the road or trying risky things much more enjoyable for me. I can see the allure of the pissing in the wind approach to life, but I personally prefer a little prudence.

This was actually for a long time my plan for life.

I think it's because America is a melting pot. Business, dating, sports, even taxes are examples--if you're in the top 10% or 1% you can live like a king, preying and taking from the rest, whereas everyone else is given a few scraps and told to be happy with it.

[blurb]

americanIneurope Wrote:

I wonder if in schools overseas teachers ever ask kids what they want to do before they die, or what do they want to be known for, and shit like that, because when I ask people that they look confused and perplexed trying to answer. I can't believe people seriously don't give questions like that much thought. Most people seem to be contempt with just working everyday and dying. I don't know am I being a dick or what? I think you only get one life on this bitch and I'm trying to sleep when I'm dead. I don't have bucket list or anything, but I'm trying to do everything that I've dreamed of doing since I was a child and if that makes me crazy or selfish then so be it.

+1 !!!

I couldn't agree more.

America was built by adventurous men who risked their lives in taking a risk. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. This was the "get up and go" spirit that was talked about in the North Dakota thread.

Unfortunately, lately this entrepreneurship spirit seems to be having less of an effect on people than before, and I really think this has to do with people valuing security over freedom.

[Smitty]

(03-19-2012 10:30 PM)americanInEurope Wrote:  

They really wouldn't attempt anything unless victory was 100% assured. If there was a chance, even a small chance, that they'd get embarrassed or be unsuccessful or anything like that most of them won't even attempt it.

This is also a very big reason why many guys fail at achieving their full potential with picking up women.

Well said.

[UrbanNerd]

As far as career/work/survival, times have changed. Years ago, one could take risks as far as career and /or business goals and IF they failed, they had factory job in their hometown waiting for them to work the next 20-30 years guaranteed....and oh by the way, you had benefits and a PENSION waiting for you when you retired. Well, there are very few companies with pension plans and nobody gets 20+ years at the same employer anymore, so the risk of falling flat on your face is now falling flat on your face. I think nowadays, one MUST have a Plan-B...and a Plan-C and Plan-D too.

Now that is my defense for the folks choosing security as far as career/work/survival.

For OTHER areas like approaching women and other non-survival things, why not go all out? As long as you can eat, drink and maintain your health (and family too), everything else should be approached with risk.

[46.]

(03-20-2012 01:22 AM)blurb Wrote:  

America was built by adventurous men who risked their lives in taking a risk. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. This was the "get up and go" spirit that was talked about in the North Dakota thread.

Unfortunately, lately this entrepreneurship spirit seems to be having less of an effect on people than before, and I really think this has to do with people valuing security over freedom.

Security is sooooo easy now.
What's interesting about today is that everyone has tons of s---. Everyone has access to everything via the internet. Even the poorest person is privy to more information than the richest 100 years ago.

If you wanted the goodies in the past, you had to work your @ss off and take chances. Otherwise you might not be eating that day. Now, its way different as everyone already has stuff...so its a new restlessness that has to be harnessed to take chances.

[Chad Daring]

(03-20-2012 01:22 AM)blurb Wrote:  

americanIneurope Wrote:

I wonder if in schools overseas teachers ever ask kids what they want to do before they die, or what do they want to be known for, and shit like that, because when I ask people that they look confused and perplexed trying to answer. I can't believe people seriously don't give questions like that much thought. Most people seem to be contempt with just working everyday and dying. I don't know am I being a dick or what? I think you only get one life on this bitch and I'm trying to sleep when I'm dead. I don't have bucket list or anything, but I'm trying to do everything that I've dreamed of doing since I was a child and if that makes me crazy or selfish then so be it.

+1 !!!

I couldn't agree more.

America was built by adventurous men who risked their lives in taking a risk. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. This was the "get up and go" spirit that was talked about in the North Dakota thread.

Unfortunately, lately this entrepreneurship spirit seems to be having less of an effect on people than before, and I really think this has to do with people valuing security over freedom.

The fall is a lot farther now then it was then.

Back in the day if your business venture failed and you lost all your money you'd go live with your parents, now our parents are finding people to live with because money is so tight.

Im really sick of this argument that the new generations dont try as hard as the old ones and that "we've lost our spirit"

We didn't lose it, it was stolen from us, get the facts straight.

[RichieP]

You're honing into one of the major positive qualities of American culture. It's rooted in America's history, and it's the reason why America is the entrepreneurial and innovative capital of the world. It's what, if anything, is going to keep America in the game internationally in the coming years.

Be thankful you have this positive trait! Many other cultures do not. You have to understand, the reason you have it is based in the roots of your culture - you are lucky to have had this positive conditioning. The history of Germany and europe is very different from the history of America. There are other positive qualities that europeans have though that Americans do not, for sure. You'll see them if you're open to them - maybe you can share your "get up and go" in a way that rubs off, and maybe you can absorb something cool in turn from the Germans.

BTW if you think Germany is bad for get-up-and-go, check out some of the really heavily socially conditioned places around the world. Young modern Koreans for example work so hard but have creativity and entrepreneurial spirit absolutely squeezed out of them during school. All they learn is Maths, Science, Korean and English, and they study all through their youth, filling afterschool hours with extra tuition. Their life goal is to get a job and steadily work their way through the system, and any deviation from the norm is unthinkable. For REAL.

[Hencredible Casanova]

What the OP said is exactly why I love the United States. That's the one trait I have not seen anywhere else. That's why most of the coolest ideas come from the US. Just look at the innovation taking place here; it's an unparalleled atmosphere.

[Kitsune]

There are only so many go-getters in every generation.

You have to remember we're going through an economic and cultural recession. You'll see a lot of go-getters make names for themselves as we come into the next boom period, or we hit the next adaptive stage of society.

Plenty of young guys out there who are preparing to conquer the world. The old guard won't stay on top forever; it's fate.

[Aliblahba]

Jevioso wrote on another thread:

Quote:

A lot of American men, have lost a lot of confidence in themselves because they're scared to really conquer the world. One of the reasons why people complain so much about corporations is that they're the only people who have really taken full advantage of globalization. Many people have been indoctrinated into believing that they can only find their happiness here, where yet there is a world, willing to embrace your creative mind and genius, yet you choose to wither away in the basements of your mothers and father's houses, because you're scared of the unknown; it's not your fault though.

From the age of 3, you've been raised to see the worse in the world, you've been raised to see the worse of Europe, the worse of Africa and the worse of Asia, you've been taught to be depressed and enslaved by loans and debt, rather than to stand on your own in a nation free, where your skills and passion for life would not only enable you to flourish, but would make you happy. Uncover your eyes, the American mind, it's creativity and it's ambition, have been the driving force in the world decades, and not much has changed. Your desire to partake in a system that swallows you in and spits you out, is the reason why so many of your bosses treat you like shit. Go where you're wanted, and you'll be amazed how much you can accomplish.

And if they don't want you here, trust me they want you somewhere.

[Chad Daring]

(03-21-2012 05:27 AM)Kitsune Wrote:  

There are only so many go-getters in every generation.

You have to remember we're going through an economic and cultural recession. You'll see a lot of go-getters make names for themselves as we come into the next boom period, or we hit the next adaptive stage of society.

Plenty of young guys out there who are preparing to conquer the world. The old guard won't stay on top forever; it's fate.

We're also running out of innovations. You can only re-invent the wheel so many times.

Think about how technology has advanced just from the 80s, how many things have now been done and completely corporatized.

Take my industry for example. I'd love to open a restaurant and I'm sure I have the skills and knowledge to do so. The problem is large corporate chains snuff out small upstart "mom and pop" joints left and right by using their size to undercut smaller operations.

In hard financial times the bulk of society favors value over quality, meaning cheap shitty food at Applebees is going to be picked over a meal twice as good thats 150% of the cost.

[Kitsune]

The 'there is no more innovation left' is just your inner weakness-demon being let out.

Read some sci-fi novels and then say humanity has reached its peak in innovation. That may not be a lesson in practicality, but we've achieved very little in the cosmological scheme of things. For a more realistic look, read Michio Kaku's 'Physics of the Impossible'. We can do a lot more.

I know what you're saying about corporatism, but 1) You've got to remember that todays economic climate isn't permanent, and 2) There is a work around for everything. I can't say I know your industry, so I won't speculate, but I imagine there are a lot of ways you can do something that people will pay for.

Technology is your ally, and everything the corps do, you can. Just work on the things nobody has done (I know one guy who, for instance, is starting up a healthy fast food ordering system over the internet. It is probably nothing you want to do, but it's the only example I have that is semi-relevant to your industry.) Basically my point is to find some hook that can give you leverage. Assuming it is leverage that you need.

If you need buying power, then make deals.
If you need to be a corporation, incorporate.

I know it is easier said than done, but once upon a time to be a go-getter you'd have to bludgeon your rivals with a blunt instrument then kill the rest of his male heirs. Your DNA survived that period, you can survive this one.

[Roosh]

Great cultural observation that applies to where I'm in right now. The local English teachers (non-native speakers) tell students that they shouldn't speak unless they will be correct (i.e. to never make a public mistake). I had an old-school Russian teacher who believed this. She actually stopped me many times while I was speaking when I wasn't grammatically correct. Needless to say, I fired her.

Like Hencredible said, this is one of the things that makes (or made?) America great. I am who I am because of this "never give up" and "keep trying until you succeed" attitude. If I was born in any non-Western country, I would still be a microbiologist, whining about how I want to travel more, or sleep with more foreign women.

I think you are definitely seeing a decline in the go get em attitude right here in America. Look at our iPhone obsessed youth today. Are they risk takers? Are they innovators? If anything I sense defeatism. Sadly, I get so many emails from guys who are paralyzed and need step-by-step advice. They want to know all the information before making a possible mistake or experiencing failure. If you look in the past decade with the helicopter parent phenomenon, you're gong to see a lot of Americans that act more like your German and Japanese friends.

A good example is the Occupy movement. I'm with them in spirit against the elite, but these are people who, instead of starting a business, instead of hustling, they are protesting 24 hours a day, not trying to make a living. They're begging for crumbs. I think protesting is an important part of democracy, but their full time protests suggest Americans are more comfortable being professional complainers instead of identifying a need that people have and then starting a business around it.

[Hades]

I think that feminism is sapping the strength of men, to some point. The whole "nobody loses" bullshit in schools makes it so nobody knows how to lose anymore, and they all develop a complex. Men are like passive aggressive women, they avoid fights at all costs, and protect their egos because they never were allowed to win either.

[Screwston]

Chad you need to come down here if you can't open up a restaurant up there. Texas is very business friendly. Damn, I can't even imagine living somewhere where there's no hole in the wall and cheap ghetto restaurants.

[Cincinnatus]

(03-22-2012 01:12 AM)houston Wrote:  

Damn, I can't even imagine living somewhere where there's no hole in the wall and cheap ghetto restaurants.

Me either.

I live in a major metropolitan area, but there's shit-tons of family-owned restaurants in addition to the mega-corporate diarrhea-fests.

The small businesses are all very special and very niche, though. Gyro shops, ethnic restaurants, barbecue joints, shit like that.

[Nujabes]

You gotta give the immigrants that come to this country ALOT of credit. Not knowing a lick of English and making shit happen. I always admire their hustle. All the nail shops where I live are owned by Vietnamese/Asians. Indians own all the laundry mats. My tailor is from Hong Kong and his business is ALWAYS busy. My landscaper who is from El Salvador who speaks NO English started with one dinky truck and himself, now has a fleet of trucks and multiple employees. My body shop guy is from Brazil speaks no English and his yard is always packed. I can go on for days. They do all the jobs "white people" look down on but their the ones banking.

[durangotang]

(03-22-2012 06:45 PM)Nujabes Wrote:  

You gotta give the immigrants that come to this country ALOT of credit. Not knowing a lick of English and making shit happen. I always admire their hustle. All the nail shops where I live are owned by Vietnamese/Asians. Indians own all the laundry mats. My tailor is from Hong Kong and his business is ALWAYS busy. My landscaper who is from El Salvador who speaks NO English started with one dinky truck and himself, now has a fleet of trucks and multiple employees. My body shop guy is from Brazil speaks no English and his yard is always packed. I can go on for days. They do all the jobs "white people" look down on but their the ones banking.

Great point, just adding to the good stock with these people. Honestly, without the welfare state, I am very pro immigration. I want people yearning to be American to come and work hard here.

[Screwston]

(03-22-2012 02:36 PM)MSW2007 Wrote:  

(03-22-2012 01:12 AM)houston Wrote:  

Damn, I can't even imagine living somewhere where there's no hole in the wall and cheap ghetto restaurants.

Me either.

I live in a major metropolitan area, but there's shit-tons of family-owned restaurants in addition to the mega-corporate diarrhea-fests.

The small businesses are all very special and very niche, though. Gyro shops, ethnic restaurants, barbecue joints, shit like that.

That whole DC area sounds like a shithole. No good food, ugly girls with attitudes, boring bland people, expensive cost of living. Welcome to hell muthafuckers...

[Vitriol]

(03-22-2012 07:30 PM)houston Wrote:  

That whole DC area sounds like a shithole. No good food, ugly girls with attitudes, boring bland people, expensive cost of living. Welcome to hell muthafuckers...

Dude, that's most of the USA now. Free time = shopping and TV.

[Blunt]

This thread is inspiring (re-inspiring). I've always set challenging goals but only in the past few years after a real low point have I been so determined to stick to them.

After questioning the meaning of it all I decided to treat the rest of my life as an experiment. To try everything possible to improve my lot in life. To live everyday with a burning passion until I get there, where ever that is. My life has gotten so much better that some times I forget about my experiment, so it's nice to have a helpful reminder.

[texaschili]

Children are raised to be dependent.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...74646.html

"By contrast, the U.S. videos showed Los Angeles parents focusing more on the children, using simplified talk with them, doing most of the housework and intervening quickly when the kids had trouble completing a task."

Parents intervene any time a child hits a snag instead of letting the child figure it out themselves. These children later become the adults of tomorrow that can't do anything themselves.