[Hencredible Casanova]

Forgive me if this article has already been discussed, but I saw it while I was out of town and wanted to see what guys on the forum might have to say about this. We've got some solid analytical minds on here. Would be interested in your thoughts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/melanie-cu...66872.html

[Nonpareil]

Quote:

According to Tracy McMillan, the reason I'm not married is that I'm a selfish, angry, shallow, lying, slut who deep down doesn't feel like she's good enough.

In actuality, most of this is true for women -- and men, for that matter -- some of the time. We are all selfish, shallow, and "slutty" (although I have a big problem with this word) at times. All of us lie. And God knows we all have moments where we feel like we're not good enough (harshly lit TJ Maxx dressing rooms are great for this).

But I don't believe I'm not married because of these things. I think these things are part of what make me human. Here's why I think I'm not married:

1. I'm not ready.

I'm still figuring myself out. I know enough to know that I have a tendency (as most women do) to lose myself in relationships. Instead of repeating this glorious and oh-so-effective pattern over and over, I'm committed to doing my own personal growth to move beyond it. I've gotten psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, acupuncture, done EFT, and currently get Network Spinal Analysis to actively work on my own spiritual growth and expand into the very best version of myself I can be. I do this primarily for myself (separate from wanting to be in a healthy relationship someday), but I also do it because I know that means I will then attract the best mate possible. As a wise friend says, "You attract what you are, not what you want." I want an amazing, passionate, self-aware, dynamic, understanding life partner -- so I'm working on being exactly that. Then I'll be ready.

2. I'm not willing to settle.

Tracy McMillan claims that most men just want a woman who is nice to them, and imply that it's appropriate to either stuff or somehow eliminate your anger if you're a woman, to keep your man happy. But I don't want a man that can't handle my anger sometimes. I'm a full-bodied, full-ranged person: sometimes I'm upset, sometimes I'm silly, sometimes I'm sad, sometimes I'm playful, sometimes I'm hurt, sometimes I'm radiant and sometimes I want to stuff my face with cupcakes and not be judged for it. I don't want someone who wants an edited version of myself. I want someone who embraces all the facets of me.

And I want the same thing in my man. I don't want a man who has cut off his balls or his anger so as not to threaten my ego, or because he's afraid I'll get angry back. I want someone who is his own person, and I want to be my own person right alongside him. I want someone with whom I successfully negotiate conflict, not who colludes with me in avoiding it at all costs. In other words I want a man, not a boy who doesn't know how to handle me when I'm pissy.

3. I haven't found the right partner.

I don't give a sh*t what kind of car a guy drives or how much money he makes. And maybe it's just the circles of women I run in, but I rarely encounter women who do. Honestly, I see this is as a hyped-up fallacy perpetuated by men who want something to blame when it doesn't work out with someone. "Oh, she left me because I didn't drive a Spyder." Seriously? Most women don't know a Spyder from a spider. When it comes to what women want in a man, it's less about craving wealth than craving a man who knows who he is and what he's about.

Does he have a career he's happy with, in which he's fulfilled? Is he doing something he believes in? Does he have a job that pays a decent wage such that he is in a position to support a family at some point? Or does he still smoke a bong every day and work at Applebee's because he doesn't yet know how or what he wants to contribute to the world? There's a difference.

I don't even care whether I meet a guy who's unemployed if he knows what he wants to do and is going after it. Hell, I'll help him go after it. I just want someone who is capable and mature enough to want to give his gifts to the world in the biggest way he can and get paid for it. And I don't think I'm alone in wanting that.

4. I don't want to rush into marriage.

Tracy McMillan's qualification, it appears, is that she's been married three times -- which also means she's been divorced either two or three times. She says she was "born knowing how to get married," but isn't it also true that she hasn't yet learned how to stay married? I'm not saying that as an accusation: I have a strong feeling she had very good reasons for getting divorced all the times she did.

My point is, I don't want that path. I want to be sure that I'm compatible with a man before I marry him -- you know, kick the tires, take him for a ride (it's particularly important to me to ride my men before committing to them). I want to see how he handles stress; I want him to see how I handle stress. I want us to travel together -- the kind where you're hungry and tired and possibly lost in a country where you don't speak the language and have to squat to use the bathroom, not long-weekend-sex-by-the-fireplace "travel."

I also want to be sure he and I are a good fit. Does he understand how I like to be loved (ask me questions that challenge me; notice how I look in something new)? Is he willing to listen -- really listen -- when my feelings are hurt, without getting defensive or lashing out? Can we communicate openly about sex? Does he give me the last cookie?

Most of these are things you can't ask on a date or force to happen. They just come up: when someone's parent dies; when one person sees how hot the other person's ex is; when you have to make a decision together about whether to move for one person's job; when there is only one Oreo left in the box. These are things that matter, and I'd rather not be committed 'til death do us part until I'm sure they all function.

I don't just want to get married -- I want a good marriage that lasts.

5. I actually do like being single right now.

Tracy's right: Being married involves sacrifice. Having children especially. I am currently appreciative of getting to sleep through the night and stay late at a bookstore if I want, instead of coming home because someone (or multiple someones) are expecting me. I love getting happy with some Yellowtail and girlfriends, or blowing off work to stay home with a bag of popcorn and a "Love Actually"/"Dirty Dancing"/"Say Anything" marathon.

This is a unique time in my life and I recognize that. I can stay up too late and drink too much and I don't have to answer to anyone. I can spend money on a tropical vacation with friends instead of putting it into a college fund. There are rewards and sacrifices to be made when you become part of a family unit, and I simultaneously look forward to that and also actively appreciate my life as it is now. I am excited to be a wife and a mother someday, and I genuinely like being single right now. Especially during Fleet Week.

6. I don't want to get married just for the sake of getting married.

I've seen too many bad relationships to say that being in one is better than not being in one. I've seen too many good relationships fail to have any false ideas about how just because something is good now, it will stay that way. And I've seen too many bad marriages to want to get married just because it's what you do after a certain age.

When I get married, it will be for the right reasons: because I've truly learned how to give and receive love and found someone who does the same. Because I've found a man who takes care of his friends, is intellectually curious, will rock out to Avril Lavigne with me on a roadtrip and looks good naked. Because I know deep down that this man wants me, not a generic wife, and that I want him, with all his quirks, insecurities, and idiosyncrasies. Mostly, it will be because I've found someone equally as committed to self-awareness and personal development as me, so that we can grow together -- gazing outward together and all that.

If I don't find that, I won't get married.

If I do, I might even be the one to propose.

Wow...so many ways I can skewer this.

1) 'I'm not ready': Yeah well I hate to open your eyes to the cruel realities of the world, but by the time you are 'ready' you'll be in your forties and no man will have you. You want to know the best way to attract the best mate possible? By being young and hot, and Psychotherapy and world travel aren't time machines.

2) 'I don't wanna settle!': At least she admits to wanting a man and not a beta orbiter, but come on, honey...everyone who gets married is settling on some level.

3) 'I haven't found the right partner': Saying you don't care about a guy's whip or how much money he has doesn't make me believe you, trust me honey, I've fucked a lot of girls and I just know that isn't true, and don't act like you give a shit about how satisfied a man is with his job and his life; the overwhelming majority of you don't.

4) 'I don't want to rush into marriage': You say you aren't a slut, but then..

Quote:

(it's particularly important to me to ride my men before committing to them)

Maybe that's why you aren't married. Look ladies, at the end of the day while certain traits you carry can help you hold onto a man, honestly sex is all we want from you, and the easier you give it away, the less effort we'll put into things. You don't want to rush into marriage? You date someone for two years or more and you know more than what you need to know about them, that's sufficient time.

5) 'I actually do like being single right now...': I'm not one to tell someone that they don't know how they feel, but I will tell you this: It (it being the period in your life between the ages of 16 and 28 and obtain the maximum amount of attention from men) does not last forever, and spending the better part of your twenties milling around drinking with the girls and eating Ben & Jerry's will only accelerate your slide into sexual obsolescence.

6) 'I don't want to get married just for the sake of getting married.':

Quote:

Because I've found a man who takes care of his friends, is intellectually curious, will rock out to Avril Lavigne with me on a roadtrip and looks good naked.

Maybe that...point #6, contains the essence of why you aren't married; the previous five points list nothing about yourself and what you can offer, and six culminates in what you expect and feel that you're entitled to. Maybe that's why so many women bemoan not being married; instead of looking inward at what they can bring to the table, they treat the men in their lives like pieces to be evaluated and bid on at an auction.

[Only One Man]

I know the original article has been discussed but I don't think this response has. The original was a rare breath of fresh air and pretty spot on for the most part. I was shocked that a woman (feminist?) would actually write something like that and tell women how it really is instead of rationalizing cunty, slutty behavior and pretending it's not the main reason these bitches can't find a quality man to marry.

Of course, this response was just the same old feminist bullshit that is spewed day in and day out. I just can't believe (well actually I can) that a feminist would take this good advice written by a woman that women who actually want to get married desperately need to hear, and then dissect it from a perspective of not caring whether she gets married or not. This is a huge reason why marriage is so fucked up in the US.

If a woman really is determined to never get married, then tell her to do whatever the fuck she wants. It's her choice. But if she does want to get married or thinks she might want to in the future, responses like this to genuinely good advice are just going to keep fucking women over more and more.

[Basil Ransom]

She is attractive. She also looks like she loves to fuck. She's 30.

Quote:

I've gotten psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, acupuncture, done EFT, and currently get Network Spinal Analysis to actively work on my own spiritual growth and expand into the very best version of myself I can be. I do this primarily for myself (separate from wanting to be in a healthy relationship someday), but I also do it because I know that means I will then attract the best mate possible. As a wise friend says, "You attract what you are, not what you want."

This is absolutely retarded psychobabble. This is proof that women can go to the highest institutions (she's a Stanford grad), be technically smart, and still be a complete retard. It's also proof of the fact that when people don't have traditional religion, they will fill that 'God-shaped hole' with something far more absurd, women especially.

#2 - Despite the headline here, wanting a man who can handle her (plentiful) bullshit is a reasonable requirement in my opinion.

The rest of it is filled with such chick-babble that I can't even assess it. I think it boils down to the fact that she wants absolutely no limitations or obligations on herself whatsoever. Any hint of having to change, compromise or giving something up makes a relationship out of the question. It's funny, I've heard guys accused of being selfish for never wanting to marry, but they have pragmatic reasons for not doing so. For this woman, it is pure narcissism. She can't brook any limitation to her will.

Nonpareil, haha, I totally missed that ride line. God what a ho.

I'm starting to feel like the prevalence of a mentality like this is inevitable as women become independent and find men superfluous. Roissy and others are fond of saying alphas are the only men who profit, because they get to fuck more. But you have to wonder if even they are losing - consider how much Roosh hates American women even as he's bedding dozens of them. At some point, you can't bang enough of them to make the loss of femininity worth it.

[Blunt]

Quote:

Managing Director of a New York City-based non-profit start-up
dedicated to ending sexual abuse in the Jewish community

Huh?

Quote:

Her latest venture, Vixen On The
Loose, seeks to redefine what it means to be an empowered woman and
highlight the fact that sex is not separate from the spiritual path,
but rather an integral part of it.

I bet she puts out on the first date.

[speakeasy]

(02-14-2012 11:59 PM)Nonpareil Wrote:  

Quote:

Because I've found a man who takes care of his friends, is intellectually curious, will rock out to Avril Lavigne with me on a roadtrip and looks good naked.

Maybe that...point #6, contains the essence of why you aren't married; the previous five points list nothing about yourself and what you can offer, and six culminates in what you expect and feel that you're entitled to. Maybe that's why so many women bemoan not being married; instead of looking inward at what they can bring to the table, they treat the men in their lives like pieces to be evaluated and bid on at an auction.

I totally agree with your post. I especially like the last point. It's a trip ain't it? I mean seriously, she wants a real man, yet wants one who will rock out to Avril Levine while the wind blows through their hair on the highway. As if any real man would even be caught dead "rocking out" to Avril Levine in the first fucking place?? It's like some women get their cues of an ideal relationship from watching way too damn many Meg Ryan movies.

And you're right, not once does she offer up any reason why she would be a good choice for a man. What she would do to make a man feel good. Entitlement is the default temperament of women now. They are automatically entitled to be swept off their feet by an alpha man just because they are women, while stating nothing to offer in return.

That's why I can't spend even 10 minutes looking at dating profiles. They all read exactly like that woman above. Every so often you might see a rare diamond in the rough: http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-9864-p...#pid153391

[joehoya]

Her points are valid. The problem is that they come from a perspective that a woman's options will be the same years from now as they are today. It is like a farmer holding on to his harvest while he waits to get the best price. If he waits to long, eventually his vegetables will start to rot, and he won't be able to get nearly as much as he turned down before.

The chick is admittedly hot, and I imagine that she has guys falling all over themselves to be with her. However, this might not be the case in 10 years. More importantly, this DEFINITELY won't be the case for the majority of women. Most women are simply not that hot and don't age that well (if that picture was taken recently).

With her looks and genes she very well MAY be able to wait, and still snag a solid guy when she is in her late 30's to early 40's (although, even for her, he will most likely be 10 years older). But the majority of women don't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that. They just are not that attractive.

Her piece reminds me of the story of Brad Pitt quiting college A FEW DAYS before he was going to graduate in order to move to Hollywood and pursue his acting career. Yeah, it worked out for him, but how do you think it would work out for 99.9% of the rest of the population?

[Moma]

This woman will set all these dizzy lizards straight. View below:

[WestIndianArchie]

Didn't Terry Mac marry a notoriously flaming heterosexual who then came out of the closet?

*shrugs*

[Andy_B]

Quote:

When I get married, it will be for the right reasons: because I've truly learned how to give and receive love and found someone who does the same. Because I've found a man who takes care of his friends, is intellectually curious, will rock out to Avril Lavigne with me on a roadtrip and looks good naked.

You can't seriously expect any self-respecting adult male to enjoy the music of Avril Lavigne.

[joehoya]

(02-15-2012 09:46 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Didn't Terry Mac marry a notoriously flaming heterosexual who then came out of the closet?

*shrugs*

The name in the thread title is misspelled. TERRY McMillan is the author who wound up marrying a gay dude. The author of the article in question is named TRACY McMillan.

[Hencredible Casanova]

(02-15-2012 10:51 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 09:46 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Didn't Terry Mac marry a notoriously flaming heterosexual who then came out of the closet?

*shrugs*

The name in the thread title is misspelled. TERRY McMillan is the author who wound up marrying a gay dude. The author of the article in question is named TRACY McMillan.

Thanks for the correction.

[joehoya]

(02-15-2012 11:03 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 10:51 AM)joehoya Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 09:46 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Didn't Terry Mac marry a notoriously flaming heterosexual who then came out of the closet?

*shrugs*

The name in the thread title is misspelled. TERRY McMillan is the author who wound up marrying a gay dude. The author of the article in question is named TRACY McMillan.

Thanks for the correction.

No problem, it was an easy mistake. Although it would have been REALLY funny had Terr McMillan, after marrying a closeted homosexual golddigger who was using her to get US citizenship, was writing an article on how to find a man.

[Timoteo]

The whole "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" bullshit is typical female thinking. The questions is, how often am I seeing your worst?

I found her reply to McMillan to be typical also. Sure, there are some grains of truth and honesty in them, but mostly it illustrates her selfishness. I don't want to change, so I need a man that simply swallows EVERYTHING I throw at him and doesn't complain or challenge me in any way. The whole personal development, growing together nonsense is another trap. How often do you hear some chick deciding she needs a divorce because "we grew apart" or "I wanted different things?" The problem is they don't really know what they want from one moment to the next.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

Quote:

I'm a full-bodied, full-ranged person

One of the stupidest female expressions ever, and given how many there are in article, that's saying a lot!

Although, from those words I would expect a too-aged frumpy fattie, so it surprised me to see a woman that is attractive

[Ferro]

The first article was actually pretty good; her hamster must have been on vacation. The Hamster Empire's response was all too predictable though.

[Bad Hussar]

There are loads of chicks like her in NYC. She's quite attractive so I'm sure she's having a great time living in Manhatan. But she was likley more atractive 5 years ago than she is now. Not that anyone will ever take this advice, but chicks should get ahead of the competition and start with their "hook a man" program at 25, rather than the current 30 years old. But it's difficult to give up the good life of partying when everything still SEEMS on track. Not like any man here can't empathise at least a little.

[Timoteo]

(04-26-2012 09:30 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  

There are loads of chicks like her in NYC. She's quite attractive so I'm sure she's having a great time living in Manhatan. But she was likley more atractive 5 years ago than she is now. Not that anyone will ever take this advice, but chicks should get ahead of the competition and start with their "hook a man" program at 25, rather than the current 30 years old. But it's difficult to give up the good life of partying when everything still SEEMS on track. Not like any man here can't empathise at least a little.

The problem is that most women don't own up and take responsibility for the choices they make. They'll instead complain about how men their own age don't want them when they hit their mid-30s, instead of being honest about how the game is played, and locking a guy up when they're at their best (namely, when they're at their most attractive). They expect some great guy to want them when they're all partied-out, 20 pounds heavier and their pussies are worn out.

[46.]

(02-15-2012 12:47 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Entitlement is the default temperament of women now.

For real. My favorite part of all of this is the sheer level of selfishness and entitlement.

McMillan wrote the initial article (courageous as hell, IMO) as someone who has been married three times to advise younger women who don't really know what the hell they're talking about. Pretty cool in my book.

The response is just so typical, taking the original idea of sharing knowledge and experiences to help others and turning it into a complete ME, ME, ME, I, I, I-Fest. My favorite line was "I can spend money on a tropical vacation with friends instead of putting it into a college fund." An interesting argument to say the least... screw motherhood- just buy s--- for yourself. Unbelievable.

[Veloce]

It would be easy to pick apart the original article line by line, but to me, it could have come from any American woman, certainly any white chick I've ever dated. There's no reasoning with the beast, no analyzing it. The only suitable response I can think of is to look at foreign girls. The author makes it sound like "this is just how women are" and that men should deal with it, without realizing there IS an alternative. Once you fuck/date your first SE asian girl it changes everything.

[teh_skeeze]

I don't get why women think that we should put up with their shit (or as she puts it "anger"). It's one thing if I actually did something to deserve it (i.e. I spent the baby's diaper money boozing and gambling). However, most of the time women will take out their frustrations in life on you (e.g. My ex flipping out on me as soon as I walk in the door because she was bored all day). If I'm supporting your ass, shut the fuck up. If you can take care of yourself, then take care. I'm going to find someone else that is more pleasant.

I think I'm going to start a petition to have pussy juice listed as a schedule I substance. It certainly addictive and it has the potential to ruin lives.

[Timoteo]

(04-26-2012 12:50 PM)46. Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 12:47 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Entitlement is the default temperament of women now.

For real. My favorite part of all of this is the sheer level of selfishness and entitlement.

McMillan wrote the initial article (courageous as hell, IMO) as someone who has been married three times to advise younger women who don't really know what the hell they're talking about. Pretty cool in my book.

The response is just so typical, taking the original idea of sharing knowledge and experiences to help others and turning it into a complete ME, ME, ME, I, I, I-Fest. My favorite line was "I can spend money on a tropical vacation with friends instead of putting it into a college fund." An interesting argument to say the least... screw motherhood- just buy s--- for yourself. Unbelievable.

These are the bitches that are least capable of being a parent or a partner. They're inherently selfish, and resent anyone and anything that gets in the way of their wants. They are best left to being pumped and dumped until their looks give out, then they can quietly recede into a life of pet ownership. They can get their sexual needs taken care of by spreading a little peanut butter on their coochies and letting the cat lick it off...

[teh_skeeze]

(04-26-2012 03:45 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

They can get their sexual needs taken care of by spreading a little peanut butter on their coochies and letting the cat lick it off...

That puts a whole new spin on "ribbed for her pleasure".

[Excelsior]

(04-26-2012 03:45 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(04-26-2012 12:50 PM)46. Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 12:47 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Entitlement is the default temperament of women now.

For real. My favorite part of all of this is the sheer level of selfishness and entitlement.

McMillan wrote the initial article (courageous as hell, IMO) as someone who has been married three times to advise younger women who don't really know what the hell they're talking about. Pretty cool in my book.

The response is just so typical, taking the original idea of sharing knowledge and experiences to help others and turning it into a complete ME, ME, ME, I, I, I-Fest. My favorite line was "I can spend money on a tropical vacation with friends instead of putting it into a college fund." An interesting argument to say the least... screw motherhood- just buy s--- for yourself. Unbelievable.

These are the bitches that are least capable of being a parent or a partner. They're inherently selfish, and resent anyone and anything that gets in the way of their wants.

It isn't just the women either on this one. This type of attitude is common among many of within these more recent generations. They don't really have a direction or purpose in life beyond the acquisition of new material things (i-pods, vacations, gucci, BMWs) and the attainment of new drug-induced highs. Beyond their own self-gratification, for many there just isn't any deeper purpose there, or even a desire to perhaps discover one later down the road. Anything that calls for even a hint of duty or tradition (ex: motherhood, in this case) is something to be looked down upon or feared.

We live in an age of don't-give-a-fuck, one that is both partially circumstantial (we can afford to do a lot less than our boomer parents could, and that includes family formation) and ideological (we genuinely don't give a fuck, nor do we wish to). The west has ascended to the stage of decadence, a stage often succeeded by some serious change (or decline, if history is any indicator).

At the end of the day, while this isn't my own chosen path, there is no point in shaming those who follow it. These folks will more likely than not choose not to reproduce. This is probably good for their would-be children (who'd be seen as perpetual joykillers at best and malign parasites at worst by their would-be parents) and good for those who disagree with them, who will soon (due to their tendency to actually reproduce) come to gain a very strong demographic edge over them. It is for this same reason that there is little reason to oppose abortion.

This and the selfish impulse/culture behind it are merely new means for Darwin's Natural Selection to keep its hands on our modern population development. There is no need for harsh environmental change to do the culling and selecting now-humans will naturally push themselves into completing these tasks one way or another.

The irony, of course, is that by remaining so wholly concerned with material pursuits, people of this mindset do tend to doom themselves. They wipe out their own genetic legacy and, thanks to demographics and resulting fertility gaps, hand the future over to those who are totally at ideological odds with them (the ones who reproduce and will birth the vast majority of the next generations), further damaging the continued strength of their social and political position.

You'd figure that followers of this school of thought would be more concerned about this, but they're really not. It is too bad that this ideology (modern liberalism in general, which has quite a few positive elements) is willing to go down with such a whimper. Serious adaptation and change will be necessary for its continued maintenance of strength.

The next 20-30 years are going to be very interesting. Our political landscapes are going to look very different.

[speakeasy]

(04-26-2012 11:25 PM)Athlone McGinnis Wrote:  

This and the selfish impulse/culture behind it are merely new means for Darwin's Natural Selection to keep its hands on our modern population development. There is no need for harsh environmental change to do the culling and selecting now-humans will naturally push themselves into completing these tasks one way or another.

Unfortunately though, it's the dumbest people that have the most kids. Ideally the people with the highest IQs should be having lots of kids and the dumbest ones should be practicing contraception. Unfortunately reality is the opposite.