[Vacancier Permanent]

Ok I know, we already have quite a few threads recently on the Ukraine. Needless to say after reading them and meeting with Luckystar a couple of weeks ago to give me the run down on the Ukraine, I have been seriously planning for a reconnaissance trip later this year. Since I do see the potential there, I'm even taking time time to learn some Russian. I have also joined 2 weeks ago a dating site, which I thought initially was mainly for Asia and the Phils, but I soon realized it was also got a fair bit of the U girls.

The site in question is cherryblossoms.com They have a free and paid membership. With the free membership, you can browse and send smiles to girls but you cannot email nor read the emails girls are sending you. So I signed up there and soon upgraded to the paid membership (50 bucks for 3 months). Within the first 3 days, I got bombarded with emails and smiles from Pinay girls, about 300 in 3 days or so. And the talent is a lot higher than say in DIA (http://www.dateinasia.com which is free and as a result, attracts only the bottom of the barrel in terms of girls). So from the Pinay side of the site, the talent is there, mostly educated, quite a few nice nurses in the mid 20's age range.

But this post is on the Ukraine girls, not Pinays. If anyone has any questions on the Pinay side of CB, just ask them here and I'll respond to the best of my experience there. Ok, so back to our U girls. Yes, they are very beautiful. I contacted all the U girls between the ages of 18 to 30 with no kids. So about 120 in total. I got an answer from 100 of them. And they all asked for my email to take the conversation private. Up to there, all is cool. About 60 of them reply back to me with very enthusiastic replies. Of those 60, I'd say the least beautiful is a solid 7 and the majority are in the 27-29 years old range. Of course all single and no babies. Or so they claim...

So I start emailing back and forth with about 50 of them. The first 2-3 email exchanges are normal, everything is cool, we exchange basic info about each other, share our thougths, what we are each looking for. 90% of them are looking for serious relations leading to marriage. I'm not looking to settle down anytime soon, but after seeing the talent there, I caught myself quite a few times considering at least getting into a LTR if these girls were for real...

After 2-3 email exchanges, the girls start telling me about since they don't speak/read English, they are using a translating company in an internet cafe and it's expensive and they hope I'm serious with my intentions. On the next email, they start directly or indirectly telling me that they are falling in love with me and they would hate to lose contact with me due to them not being able to afford the fee to have their letters translated from Russian to English and my letters from English to Russian and that it would cost only 4.59/letter or 100 to 150 bucks per month for unlimited letters translated. LOl Another interesting thing I noticed is that it was usually the super hot ones who were talking about money and needing help. I'm still communicating with 5-10 girls who appear geniune and know some english and have decent careers and they appear normal as they've sent me pics of them with their family doing normal things as opposed to the mega hotties sending me sexy pictures of them. And these are girls who have not asked me or hinted at a financial help from me directly or indirectly. Needless to say, as soon as one asks for money, any money, she's dropped from the list without a 2nd look. I don't mind help a girl after i'd hit it, but never before let alone before even meeting her. LOL

So my question is this: after this small experiment, for which I'm sure I'm being introduced to the famous mail order scams that operate out of the Ukraine and for which I have absolutely no desire to partake in sponsoring any of those girls, no matter how hot they may look on their pics, I'd like to ask the Ukraine experts some questions in order to further dig into the psyche of the U babes:

- do girls in the Ukraine generally ask for support even before having a relationship and or sex with a guy? (The reason I'm asking this question that may sound naive at first glance is that in some parts of the world, different rules apply to the dating scene/game, so just for clarification purposes am I asking that question).
- is the level of talent really that high in the Ukraine? I mean some of the girls' pictures I received were simply phenomenal. I'd love to post some of these pics in here if there was a fast way to do that as I have quite a lot of pics form these lizards that are mind blowing.
- since the majority of the girls who are the most enthusiastic are in the 27+ age range, should I not even bother and wait till I get there and then, have access to younger, fresher girls? specially if I can learn some basic russian by then? or would you Ukraine pros recommend pipeling before coming? and if yes, pipeling presents a high ROI, which sites do you recommend for the best, most geniune girls?

This has gotten a bit long so I'm going to stop. I'm all ears guys, specially guys who are experienced with the Ukrainian/Russian girls. Specially guys like Old Nemesis, Luckystar, Deb Auchery and Holligan Harry and anyone else with extensive first hand experience on the ground with these girls.

Spasiba.

[BalkanCynic]

Im far from a Ukraine expert, but my online experience was a bit different. I used mamba.ru, my response rate was about 30%, I contacted girls in the 19-25 range and encountered almost no outright scammers. Keep in mind I was on location in kharkiv and was pretty much outright about wanting to meet up.

To answer your questions: yes, the talent is ridiculously high, but of course the pictures lie. Every other Ukrainian girl seems to have semi-pro picture shoots of themselves. To pipeline or not.. depends on how long you'll be there and which city.

[MiXX]

VP, you've been bitten by the same bug that bit me 1 year ago, I even opened a Ukraine thread, just like you. I started taking Russian classes, just like you and pipelining on the internet (I used Ukrainedate.com), just like you. I even took a trip to DC to chill with Rocco who has access to a lot of Ukraine/Russian chics. However, you'll soon learn the superficial bullshit that Ukraine girls put you through is not worth the effort. Especially when you have fucked beautiful pinays (in my case Colombianas) with such ease.

You'll soon start to wonder wether Ukraine really deserves a spot on your roster....and eventually, you'll learn they are just a nice placeholder that adds no value, you'll drop them, and look elsewhere........JUST LIKE ME.

If I happen to come across a fine Ukraine blondie, no doubt, I'm approaching, but I won't be visiting the shithole I keep hearing Ukraine is as a main event.

Debauchary seems to be doing well there, but he is 6'4 in height I believe, and white. Still, I am very skeptical if its worth a unique ttip there because I just hear its just a "shithole" as Luckystar put it. Not to mention that Mechanico today told me he wonders why I would spend my time in Ukraine with their incredibly shitty food.



Mixx

[Hooligan Harry]

@Mixx

dont you think you actually need to go there before you make a call like that? Why is the place a shithole and what is it being compared to? You have travelled enough to know that foreign women you meet outside the country are not always an accurate reflection on the women you meet when you go there, and I think people need to go to the Ukraine or any country for that matter before they generalise like that.

I really dont know what people expect from the Ukraine either. Like most FSU countries, its only now starting to drag itself out of the dirt. The people may not look it, but the vast majority are actually quite poor by western standards and life is a daily struggle for most of them. They may look first world, but they are far from it.

The women themselves dont have time to waste either. They are over the hill at 25 and if they are unmarried as they move into their late 20's they are really in quite a bit bit of trouble. Its over if they are in their 30's for the most part. Now when they struggle like they do, it means nothing more than financial instability and loneliness for them as they get older. Throw into the mix a culture that believes and values traditional gender roles, and yes, the women are serious. They dont have time to waste on men who are not potential husbands. They dont have any safety nets and their safety net is their family and their husband.

This is why I keep saying to everyone that they need to get their stories straight and lie like absolute motherfuckers to them if its purely notch count they are after. Prepare properly and you will have a good time. Go there without doing your homework, acting like a tight arsed backpacker or thinking the women are all going to be DTF just because they enjoy sex is only going to lead to frustration.

Colombia is a paradise for you because you are not seen as a gringo sex predator, you speak the language, you have an established social circle there, you know the culture and you are wealthy by their standards. It puts you in the top 5th percentile dude. That does not mean that every other place in the world is a waste of time because you dont have home ground advantage there, but expecting it to be as easy is probably a bit unrealistic dont you think?

@ Vacancier Permanent

Dude, do not send those bitches money. You have probably walked right into a scam and they may not even be women. They prey on the mail order bride hunters and thats why they are so aggressive about the whole marriage thing. All of them have a desire to get married and they are all serious about it, but they are still women and they are still subtle about it. So no, its not normal. Google translate is free and internet access is not that expensive there.

Also, you never support these women. Not even if you are in a relationship with them! When they are with you, you cover expenses. Food, entertainment, tickets, etc. If you want to buy them something, do so, but nothing over the top. Once it gets to the point of living together or marriage, then yes, you support them then. If ever there is an expectation that you provide gifts, money or shopping sprees before they fuck, dump her immediately. And if it comes afterwards, she is looking for a sponsor, and dump her.

You do run into a few of them and I have run into my fair share over the years, but they almost always fuck you before they start pushing their luck. Its so easy for men to get cunt struck in these places and they know it. When they look the way they do and they are fucking you to try and keep you as a pet, you better believe her primary objective is keeping your balls drained.

If they expect you to sponsor them and you want to do it, you are then free to fuck other women with impunity. If you are supporting her and she is not living with you and she is not your wife, then she is your mistress. I dont see the need for this unless you are married though.

With regards to the womens looks? Yes, they are that good looking. A lot of it has to do with the way they present themselves though. They dress well, there are fewer fatties, they are feminine and they like to look good. I dont believe there is a region on the planet that produces better looking women. You can keep the Latina ass when it comes on a body with a face like a bulldog thanks, and Eastern European and Russian women have the best tits in the world IMO, hands down.

There are a ton of women who will be on the dating sites that are going to be far younger. If you are just looking for a holiday and sex, then the 25-30 age group is very easy pickings. The younger women are always a little more high maintenance, but by no means off the cards. People are not joking about 50 year old men fucking 20 year old women. These places must be hell for younger guys and I have often wondered if the lack of options for men under 30 is not what drives so many of their social problems.

I speak Russian, so dont use the dating sites. If I did not though, I would not hesitate to use them. Reports coming in of late are that a lot more younger women are speaking English and that has always been the trend in Eastern Europe. So it might be snowballing and maybe things are easier now. I would still suggest you pipeline even for the younger chicks, purely because I know and have experienced how shy they can be when they feel they are not proficient in English. I also am not quite sure that the numbers being reported are as high as they are, but maybe things are happening really quickly with the women under 20.

Speak to the guys who have used the online sites a bit more, maybe they can point you in the direction of a few better options. A few things:

- Tell them you are going to be in the city for what looks like a while. Either business, study, research, think of something that makes a longer stay seem plausible and genuine. This way they see potential future husband and you write the sex tourist thing off completely.

- Admitting to them that you dont speak the language yet but want to learn and have to learn because you are there for so long is a good thing. It validates what I said above and shows an interest in their local culture. Tell them it would be nice to have someone show them around.

- Pay for drinks, pay for their dinner, spot them club or gallery entrance, pay for the movie tickets, etc and you make the call on the activity. Thats as far as it goes. Dont start buying them shit or paying their rent. This is what sponsors do. Sponsoring women is nothing unusual there, but its not an arrangement that suits single guys at all. Some women want sponsors though, and if that her thing, just end it.

- Game is different there. Escalate quickly and dont beat around the bush with them. Be firm with them if they push their luck with you. Dont be rude or act like a complete clown either. Humility does you more favours than anything else. But being direct is the name of the game there. From the initial approach to the bang.

There is a saying in the Ukraine. "He hits me because he loves me". Lol, Im not saying you need to hand out beat downs, but think of the mindset.

Another saying I often think of when I am in EE is that "You treat a whore like a princess and you treat a princess like a whore." Traditional gender roles are not far removed from gold digging, and neither is that far removed from whoring. Modern western women are like spoiled children who dont need to rely on sex and their femininity anymore as they have all these huge safety nets and social advantages. They are like spoiled princesses, which means we need to treat them like fucking whores to push their buttons. Eastern European women are essentially whores though (I dont mean it in a derogatory sense), so treating them like a princess will push their buttons.

[Sirob]

Harry's posts should be made into a compendium on Ukraine Game (or Soviet Game). The insight there is phenomenal.

+1 from me.

[Greek kamaki]

do girls in the Ukraine generally ask for support even before having a relationship and or sex with a guy?

Generally this is common.There are some girls who search directly for sponsors and others who may want some financial help from time to time.In this case one needs to be careful because a 20% of them are scammers they may get the money in advance and never do what they promise.

So you have to rely on your judgement if it is good to send them money or not.As a general rule you should avoid sending money before meeting the girl in real however if the temptation is too much and she uses persuation techniques and manipulation and if you want to get laid in no time when you arrive without having to go through dating,clubbing etc with no guaranteed result sthen you could try the option of sending money before you arrive in order to secure the lay.

However be prepared in this case that the girl you meet will ask for more money to continue the sexual encounters usually translated in buying her presents.

It is the classical view in Kiev the old ugly foreigner next to a stunning 20 years old girl smiling carrying shopping bags.She may smile to you as well if you look at her.

How much you should send?I would say not more than 200 euro.Everything more than that is simply explitation from her side.It is also bad investment even in case she does what she promises and is not a scammer.With the same amount of money spent on real situations and actuall encounters you will have much better time in Kiev.

is the level of talent really that high in the Ukraine?

No it is not so high.Actually Ukraine has a proportion of about 10% of good looking girls in the general population.Only 1-2% of them are stunners.Compare to Sweden where 30% of women are very good looking or to Czech Republic where 25% are good looking.

But what matters is not the proportion of good lloking girls you see on the street but the proportion of them you can lay.In this regard you are in to bang the top 10% of girls population in Ukraine while many times you fail to qualify for the top 25% of Czech girls or the top 30% of swedish girls.There are several reasons for that.

So securing average girls in Ukraine does not give hotties.On the other hand you have a shot at hotties as well as a foreigner.Contrary to CR,Sweden where being able to lay average girls means you actally bang hotties since the level of appearance in these countries is rather high.

since the majority of the girls who are the most enthusiastic are in the 27+ age range, should I not even bother and wait till I get there and then, have access to younger, fresher girls? specially if I can learn some basic russian by then? or would you Ukraine pros recommend pipeling before coming?

This is good question.Pipelining is quite different from the reality you meet on the ground.As a general rule when you stay there more than 3 days you tend to explore the local possibilities on streets and clubs leaving pipelining.If you have very short time however less than 3 days pipelining can be quite useful in the sense that you have prearranged meetings so you do not spend valuable time searching for girls when you come(you actually pay for this time).

But the question will remain all tht eime during your stay should I call her and spend my time dating the internet contact or use the time picking up girls on street and shops instead of investing on inferior looking internet contacts?Sometimes this question will torture you for example you will wait for the date you have arranged for 18.00 and from 17.50 till 18.00 try to pick up girls in the same place the possibilities are endless.Or you will abandon some possible dates with internet contacts because you will find sb better immediately after you arrive.

Some flexibility is needed.Both internet,street gaming and night game bring excellent results so you need some gut instinct to get what will benefit you the most in a given situation.

I would say internet game is worse in western Ukraine and street game is worse in eastern Ukraine.If you visit western Ukraine do not rely so much on internet contacts many of them will flake.Also some of them will be out of town with relatives or on trip,others will be ill and some will have very tight schedule due to work or other arranged dates.Strain is more in Kiev where girls usually work till 18.00 and then come tired at home so you can mostly date them after 18.00.On Saturday some of them will have already prearranged going out with friends.

In province in this regard is much better since most girls have plenty of time most do not work and the ones who work finish at 15.00.They are also more relaxed during the day and in the weekends.

[Greek kamaki]

Maybe I should make that more clear:It is not necessary to send girls money before you meet them.If you do not want to send money ignore them.It will not hurt your chances much.However if you send them money to secure immediate lays which will happen(we talk about straight lays the girl will wait for you in the airport or will come to your apartment) be prepared for the following:

The girls will ask for more money to continue their sexual enounters

This means that sending her 100 or 200 euro for example will guarantee for sure only one lay(the first) and not anything during the following days.So you should consider it a lot before you send money.I sent money and it worked I also sent money other times and I regreted it.But if you think your game is solid enough and have more than 3 days to spend in the country better do not send any money because your money will be better used in dating and clubs.

For example you may think why should I spend 100 euro on dates(each meal for two in restaurant costs 50 euro) when I can have immediate sex if I send her 100 euro in cash?It is really complicated.Generally the girls who ask for money are not bad characters except in some extravagant cases.The hardcore sponsorettes are easy to point out and usually get money from a series of foreigners(for example an Italian,an American,a German,an Arab etc) who visit them in a row during the year without the one suspecting the activity of the others.In some cases these sponsored girls may even flake to her sponsor if one richer sponsor happens to be in town simultaneously.

You can avoid all these cases by skipping alltogether sponsorettes.

There are many variants of paying in Ukraine.It can range from hardcore direct pay for sex till very subtle situations where you give money or buy presents because you see the difficult situations the girl copes up with.In province in eastern Ukraine it is common that girls ask for some cash for everyday expenses each time you have sex.(eg to go to the supermarket and buy food).

In western Ukraine they try to spend as little as they can to keep you without suspicion they are materialistic so they have chances to marry you.It is different mentality.So a girl from western Ukraine is highly unlikely to ask for money in advance.

Another problem with sending a girl money is that before you come she may ask for more and in this case you will be unwilling to lose totally the amount you fist gave in case she becomes angry so you send her again.This is totally beta and is the the exact trap.Girls know this and they blackmail based on this that you will lose everything after you sent money for first time.So be prepared.

So in summary I advise sending money only other these circumstances:

1.The girl is rather good looking(exceptionally good looking to what you are used to)

2.She agrees on lots of sexual propositions(anal,threesomes,extreme whatever is your phantasy)

3.You have less than 3 days to spend in the country(otherwise you are very likely to get a girlfriend who will do all this)

4.You have not secured(meaning agreed already before coming) sex with your internet contacts or you want to have sex with multiple girls immediately after coming without having to spend time and without being obliged to stay with them in

[Hooligan Harry]

Are you seriously suggesting sending women money?

Dude, are paying for pussy when you are there? Look no judgement on my part if you are, I dont care either way and I know the scene is big, but it sounds like you are whoring it up to me. You are basically sponsoring chicks if not outright handing over cash for sex? Things like multiple positions needing to be paid for? Anal for more money?

In all my time in EE and Russia, even in the bad old days, I have never had to buy strange women shit. Yes, there has been that expectation at times and they have pushed for it, but I always made it clear that it was not on the cards. It never cost me anything but the chicks who were looking for a sponsor, and in most cases they all stuck around anyway. I was not married to them or living with them, so it was not going to happen. Covering costs when they are with you is a given, and there have been some chicks who I was involved with that I would give money to by lingerie or a real slut dress, but even that is a rarity and it was more for me than it was for them.

So Im going to have to disagree about the whole sponsor thing.

Even if you are whoring it up, why are you going to send money in advance? If its not a scam, it sets a president from day 1 too. I cannot ever see how it is even remotely a good idea.

There is that, then there is the matter of Sweden. I know that this is pretty subjective, but Sweden over Ukraine? Man, I dont know about that one either. I like slim, model type women I guess, and for my tastes, Slavic women from that region, along with Russian, are the best looking in the world hands down. Its the sheer quantity of 7's and 8's that matter and is the game changer to attitudes, not the number of top shelf 10's.

Clearly your approach to this is a bit unusual. I admit your posts so far have shown a great deal of insight and I would not doubt you have travelled it extensively given what I have read so far, I guess I am just curious to know what position its coming from.

[Greek kamaki]

I adapt to the local patterns.Truth is in most slavic countries a girl can have a serious boyfriend who is in relationship with with intention for marriage and at the same time she has a sponsor and some lovers.This is the case in all slavic countries whether it is Poland or Ukraine or Russia or even Czech Republic.

So you can play the role of the boyfriend,the future groom,the lover or the sponsor.Each role has its own advantages and disadvnatges.If a girl sees you as sponsor and you like her why skip this?You can be simultanously a lover and a boyfriend to other girls.I present the slavic reality as I lived it.

When I travel I make maximum use of resources.I usually have limited time to spend and have to bring on results instantly.Every date that does not lead to a lay ASAP is a failure.There is no time for a second date.So to have secured some girls for sure sex before coming is a must for me.When I arrive I play out all the other possibilities like normal internet contacts,girls from provnice,street pick up and clubs.My game is completely based on speed on the conscious effort to kill time and become in a state avove time.Time is the worst enemy for me I have to reduce or ameliorate even vanish its effects.In the effort to exterminate the consequences of time I use money and other resources.Every hour counts when staying abroad.So I try to force the results.The easy way is with money but I do not do it the Italian way as a compensation for lack of looks or game.I use money to compensate for time.

Sometimes it can fail when you try to force the natural laws.But sometimes you get to a different dimension due to high speed and quick alternation of sights.The danger is to become overexhausted and burned out soon and this happens(for example continuous banging then dating then clubbing then again banging non stop).

Another thing is girls usually smell on you what you are about.When they smell opportunities for sponsoring they react accordingly.When they smell good sex they also react accordingly.They also came in clusters to enjoy your generosity.For example the polish girl will bring her relative,her cousin and her friend and you will have unbelievable threesomes and foursomes.Ukrainian girls do exactly the same.

(When I started travelling to slavic countries I was totally unaware of the realities there.I will try to present a map what is the best bait for a girl according to each slavic country.)

Again one can skip entirely sponsoring all together and try to spend more time in foreign country instead.I would say if you stay more than 3-4 days it is better not to get involved in any kind of sponsoring.

[worldwidetraveler]

VP, no good girl will tell you she loves you after a couple of emails nor ask you for money. If they are asking for translation costs, trying to get you to sign up for an agency, costs for sick mother, internet costs then it is more than likely Boris pretending to be a woman.

[MiXX]

@Hooligan The problem I see with Ukraine is its similarity to Colombia.

You see in Colombia, you will see 50 yo foreign men fucking 20yo too! There is a reason for that: They pay for that pussy at a higher cost than paying for a pro. They pay her school, rent, clothes, food, her families issues and the list is a mile long!!

Hooligan Harry Wrote:

I keep saying to everyone that they need to get their stories straight and lie like absolute motherfuckers to them

You are giving me advice to flat out LIE to girls to get laid? Lie about what? My intentions? That's NOT GAME! I should not have to lie to a bitch! Maybe that's my problem, I hate lying. I consider myself too high value to flat out lie for sex. I will dance around the truth, but never flat out lie.

For real Hooligan, very, very few men at age 50 have a body that can attract a 20 year old, so the ONLY reason they are fucking her is because she dips her hands in the wallet like an ATM machine DAILY. Meanwhile, they are fucking 10 (younger) dudes behind your 50 year old naive ass!

Just like Ukraine, a woman in Colombia that is 30 yo is consider OLD, a cougar on the prowl, and usually, with 1 kid to raise at minimum. This is not a foreign/unknown concept for me.

Luckystar is a valuable member of this forum, and he has been to Ukraine a few times form my understanding. I personally spoke on the phone with him, and he told me Ukraine is a depressing shithole, and that girls are harder to bang than their Polish neighbors, not to even bother. I took that advice with my own research, and concluded that Ukraine, as a primary visit, would not be a wise idea.


BELIEVE ME, I WANT TO BE WRONG!! I REALLY WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS!


Another member here told me that if I want to fuck 18 year olds when I reach 45-50, I should go to Davao, Philippines, and avoid the cite with straight up hookers. However, VP is already a Philippines expert.

Luckystar, care to chime in on your intel of Ukraine?


Mixx

[Roosh]

Mixx, you're approaching Dash ground here. He praised locations he's never been while you're bashing them. You may have more experience with Ukrainian girls that guys who have actually been there, but like Hooligan said it's a different ballgame when you're in the country.

That said, Ukraine is in my sights.

[Hooligan Harry]

(02-14-2012 10:31 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

@Hooligan The problem I see with Ukraine is its similarity to Colombia.

You see in Colombia, you will see 50 yo foreign men fucking 20yo too! There is a reason for that: They pay for that pussy at a higher cost than paying for a pro. They pay her school, rent, clothes, food, her families issues and the list is a mile long!!

For real Hooligan, very, very few men at age 50 have a body that can attract a 20 year old, so the ONLY reason they are fucking her is because she dips her hands in the wallet like an ATM machine DAILY. Meanwhile, they are fucking 10 (younger) dudes behind your 50 year old naive ass!

Just like Ukraine, a woman in Colombia that is 30 yo is consider OLD, a cougar on the prowl, and usually, with 1 kid to raise at minimum. This is not a foreign/unknown concept for me.

You wont hear me dispute that. Im the man preaching to guys that game alone wont be enough when they are 50 if they want to tap 20 year old ass on the regular. While I think most older guys go overboard and many are resorting to outright whoring, if you are living in a cardboard box you are fucked too. You need to have your shit together when you get older.

Again though, the older dude in EE and Russia really is the one the bitches end up with. Seriously, I think many of their social problems are related to guys under 35 who battle with their local women. They want to play housewife and older men are established.

Cultures are different dude. With EE and Russian women, its a genuine cultural difference. Older man = stable family. Sure many are sponsored, but many are in traditional marriages and relationships with these guys because its a societal norm.

It changes your views on age completely.

Quote:

You are giving me advice to flat out LIE to girls to get laid? serious? That's NOT GAME, that's BULLSHIT! I should not have to lie to a bitch! Maybe that's my problem, I hate lying. I consider myself too high value to flat out lie for sex. I will dance around the truth, but never flat out lie.

You have a choice. You can either try your parlour tricks and routines or you can tell them that you are in town for a while. The latter will work, the former will make them think you are a sex tourist and only in it for the hit and run killing any chance you have. Western concepts of game will fall flat in a place like the Ukraine because they dont have time for bullshit and the culture is different. They find a great deal of it offensive and rude. My approach HAS to change the minute I leave Australia

You think you are going to salsa your way in, pull some Johnny Depp shit and fuck your way into the hearts and minds of the locals? You are dreaming. The Italians have been trying it for 20 years already and the Turks are trying to convince the chicks they come from Brazil or Argentina.

Its simple bro. The local women are simply not DTF unless you are potential boyfriend/husband or sponsor, they have no time to waste. So you put yourself into a position where they

1 - Dont think you are a sex tourist
2 - Think you will be around for a while and maybe they have a chance at something

and then its game on. If that means bullshitting her about being in town for a while, then so be it. Is that the case with all of them? Of course not, one night stands happen all the time. The difference is that they dont happen with the kind of regularity you would see in the west and you would have to work much harder to land them through sheer numbers alone.

Maybe its not for you dude. Thats cool. I have spent years there and I would never live in the place. Fuck Europe, the weather is shit and the quality of life is crap, and I have said myself on these forums I would settle in South America before I did Eastern Europe or Russia.

But for women alone, Eastern European and Russia are unmatched IMO. Not just in looks, but in everything they bring to the table.

If people want to go, they need to adjust their approach slightly or they are going to have a shit time of it. If they are not willing to make adjustments, they are pushing shit uphill and they wont enjoy themselves as much.

[Greek kamaki]

The reality is not black and white.Sponsored girls bad,girls for free good.Most situations are rather mixed.In some situations you really lose control you do not know where exactly you stand.It is due to slavic common cultural environment and genes.

If we try to compare polish women and ukrainian women I would say that polish women are more gullible in the sense that if you lie to them regarding your common future she is much more likely to swallow it.She is also more likely to have distorted perception of your wealth if you lie to her about it directly or indirectly.Polish girls for some reason believe everything you say and this makes them easy targets for some kinds of natural gifted liars.They can find heaven there.

Ukrainian girls are very cunning regarding this aspect.They may have a lower IQ than polish girls in general but polish IQ is mostly academic it is not street IQ.So an ukrainian girl will make a better estimation of your true wealth and income status and is less likely to believe stories of common life etc.Ukrainian women want sth in the hand.If it is money the better for them.

Russians know Ukrainians inside oyut and outsmart them in every case.Westerners do not know Ukrainians so well and may fall in some traps.Maybe I will try to present some common situations with ukrainian girls.What is very common is that the girl in her route up will not hesitate a moment to leave you after two years if you married her since in two years she gets the visa.In fact she had already planned the divorce from the time she was married and some Ukrainian girls told me that they were willing to spearate their new husbands in two years.

This is considered absolutely normal in Ukraine.It is also considered normal for a married man to have a sponsorette and his wife even knows that in most cases.It is part of the culture.Noone lifts a bat.

In general in slavic societies morals are very loose so much stuff will appear strange to you.There are no germanic strict protestantic ethics there is just a slavic general latitude the girls are free to do whatever they want there are absolutely no moral rules.

For example if you are in Czech Republic and a Czech guy starts kissing your gf he expects that you do not react.It is because his girlfriend will sleep with you.These are cultural nuances often escaping from western or mediteranean guys who become possessive of girls and show awful behaviors.Never judge a slavic girl or you will become her worst friend.

Slavic women also play a whole lot of mental games polish are top in that Ukrainian and Russian fall close.Generally mental and moral instability are characteristics ingrained in slavic psychology so you should not have demands on logic or reason except in the case of Czech women who are the most rational among Slavs due to Germanic mix

[MiXX]

(02-14-2012 11:25 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Mixx, you're approaching Dash ground here. He praised locations he's never been while you're bashing them. You may have more experience with Ukrainian girls that guys who have actually been there, but like Hooligan said it's a different ballgame when you're in the country.

That said, Ukraine is in my sights.

I'm not Bashing Ukraine, I'm just stating what Luckystar told me directly, someone whom has constantly given valuable feedback to the forum, and I believe you met yourself.

Like I said, I want to be wrong about Ukraine. I want Ukraine to be a pussy paradise for all.

All I got from members (who know it well) is that Ukraine is a depressing shithole from Luckystar, the food is shitty form El Mechanico, and that I should lie my ass of to locals from Hooligan Harry. That does not sound like pussy paradise to me.

How am I bashing? My post is nowhere near to Dash's delusional posts.

Mixx

[MiXX]

(02-14-2012 11:26 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

you think you are going to salsa your way in, pull some Johnny Depp shit and fuck your way into the hearts and minds of the locals? You are dreaming.

I like that response.

(02-14-2012 11:26 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

The Italians have been trying it for 20 years already and the Turks are trying to convince the chicks they come from Brazil or Argentina.

Fucking pricks!!

(02-14-2012 11:26 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

Its simple bro. The local women are simply not DTF unless you are potential boyfriend/husband or sponsor, they have no time to waste.

It is what it is. Then if I am going to lie, and I must lie, I'm telling every girl there I am looking for a wife. Seeems like the most direct lie that satisfies their need for marriage, and not make me look like a sex tourist.

(02-14-2012 11:26 AM)Hooligan Harry Wrote:  

If people want to go, they need to adjust their approach slightly or they are going to have a shit time of it. If they are not willing to make adjustments, they are pushing shit uphill and they wont enjoy themselves as much.

Props. Duly noted.

+1

Mixx

[Greek kamaki]

Again you are very linear.There is not a best place for everyone because everyone has different features.For some people Poland is better and for some Ukraine is better.Generally if you are willing to spend and you are older than 35 Ukraine is better.If you are not willing to spend and you are younger than 35 Poland is better.It is all relative.It also depends if you know Russian.

S the guys most benefited from Ukraine are the older ones with cash and knowledge of Russian.The ones who travel on budget,do not speak Russian and are younger will get a very different experience.

I saw some of your videos and you seem to me more fit for Poland than for Ukraine if you had to choose between these two although your style would maybe work better in Czech Republic.But given between Poland and Ukraine you should visitPoland in my opinion you just need to adapt a bit culturally and lose some of the outgoingness and American manerisms.Especially grimaces do not work well in Europe.

As a general rule the game in slavic countries is run by women not by men.All this push pull,cat string,negs etc is totally stuff that slavic women do and men are supposed to be receivers.So you have to run no game in the American style at all the roles are reversed you are the one to be gamed there.I will try somehow to present you how it works in real style but now I am a bit too tired to write good in English that is why you see fluctuations in the quality of my posts.

[Deb Auchery]

(02-14-2012 02:50 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Again you are very linear.There is not a best place for everyone because everyone has different features.For some people Poland is better and for some Ukraine is better.Generally if you are willing to spend and you are older than 35 Ukraine is better.If you are not willing to spend and you are younger than 35 Poland is better.It is all relative.It also depends if you know Russian.

S the guys most benefited from Ukraine are the older ones with cash and knowledge of Russian.The ones who travel on budget,do not speak Russian and are younger will get a very different experience.

I saw some of your videos and you seem to me more fit for Poland than for Ukraine if you had to choose between these two although your style would maybe work better in Czech Republic.But given between Poland and Ukraine you should visitPoland in my opinion you just need to adapt a bit culturally and lose some of the outgoingness and American manerisms.Especially grimaces do not work well in Europe.

As a general rule the game in slavic countries is run by women not by men.All this push pull,cat string,negs etc is totally stuff that slavic women do and men are supposed to be receivers.So you have to run no game in the American style at all the roles are reversed you are the one to be gamed there.I will try somehow to present you how it works in real style but now I am a bit too tired to write good in English that is why you see fluctuations in the quality of my posts.

Again it all depends on which area of Ukraine you're in, I spend almost nothing on women, never taken a girl for any kind of meal here. Gave one of my girls a bottle of wine and some chocolates for valentines today, but even they were given to me by someone as a gift,and so far tonight I have eaten most of the chocolates and drunk most of the wine

I would agree that Poland would be better on a budget because the Polish girls are more likely to have their own Zloty. But then again, the cost of living is quite a bit lower in Ukraine, so it evens out a bit.

I sometimes think to myself if it would have been better if I came to Ukraine ten years ago, and I have to say that it would not have been better. I'm far more confident, self-assured, fitter, financially independent than back then.

It's really true that you get more pussy as you pass 30.

[MiXX]

I do agree that almost 50% of guys on this forum travel on strict budgets. I am not one of them. I just refuse to buy women gifts, pay rent, and buy her clothes in exchange for sex.

Mixx

[speakeasy]

Mixx, I think you really should hit Ukraine hard for a few weeks this spring or summer. The thing with these FSU countries is I hear a lot of hit or miss stories. I've met Ukrainian as well as Russian girls visiting the states that didn't seem racist at all. So I'm sure you'd come up on something. You said you already know some of the language. You also said you're a martial artist so I think you can fend off any haters no problem. So you'd be the best candidate here to do this reconnaissance for non-white guys.

I think we'd all love to see how well a brown-skinned playboy with game would do over there. You could really be a trailblazer. Like NaughtyNomad, but in reverse.

Do it, man!!

[Brian]

Mixx, I think you should check them both out and give data sheets on both!

[MiXX]

Well, I'm already going to Poland in late April, I just want it to warm up a bit before I get there. I can't do 20 below 0 weather, not this puppy!

If I was going to Ukraine as small detour on my trip, it would be to L'viv or Ivano-Frankivsk. I just may who knows....I always wing shit anyways.

Montreal is already set in stone for me this summer, I just have heard too many great things about Montreal to avoid it yet another summer.


Mixx

[Vacancier Permanent]

Thanks to all the guys who have chipped in here with their first hand knowledge and experience of the Ukraine.

Mixx, compadre, you've been to 2nd and 3rd world countries and cities before so there's nothing that the Ukraine or any of the FSU could throw at a globe trotter like you that you wouldn't be able to cope with. I'm convinced that once you get there, the Ukraine will be akin to a wonderland for a player like you. You're the type of guy that these girls are lusting about: mature, successful, with class and worldly, add in the latino ingredient and you've got it made IMO. However, go there with an open mind, give it some time and learn as much Russian as you can before going. I am also pretty much the same profile as you (minus the master at game that you are) and I'm going to make the Ukraine my next destination for a mini retirement later this summer/early fall. I'm listening to some Pimsleur Russian cds to learn at least some basic stuff. Btw, I'm far from being a Philippines expert with my mere 3 weeks spent there in Cebu last year. I would call Neil or Lumiere experts on the UPI as they've spent 6 months plus there.

Harry,
Thanks for the great insight, I just love this forum. That's the kind of insight into the Ukrainian psyche I was looking for when I started this topic. I agree with everything you said. Of course I am not going to send a penny to none of these girls, no matter how hot or good they may look like in pics. I have already stopped replying to those who have been hinting at any form of financial support, be it even as small as paying for the emails to be translated. Excellent suggestions about telling them I'd be there for a long time and that I'm learning Russian. Which is true in both cases anyways. You mention of other dating sites, could you name some where the girls are less likely to be golddiggers and more geniune?

Greek Kamaki,
thanks for your insight and tips as well. However, I do agree with Harry here that sending money to girls is a no no. At least as far as I'm concerned as I will be spending a couple months at the minimum there, so I have time on my side. In all my trips around the world, I have never ever sent a girl money before end or after. Ever. I see no objection in covering costs when we're together and buying a cool girl I like some small gift or a perfume but not this non-sense of paying her rent or her bills. Perhaps when one reaches his 50's and 60's and when you'll be in town only for a short time and have more money than time, then things might change but until then, no thanks, no money is going to sent to any girl any where on planet Earth. When you mention girls bringing their friends or relative and then later go for a 3some or 4some, I'd be totally up for that. Oh and by the way, please go ahead and post your map of the rules for each of the Slavic countries. That would be very valuable!

worldwidetravel, totally agree with you man that no good girl is going to be magically falling in love after a couple of emails and some pics exchanged. LOL That's when I realized that something was fishy even before they started hinted of needing $ to pay for translating our emails. LOL

Again, thanks guys for the awesome feedback and insight into a fascinating culture and dating scene.

Cheers.

[Vacancier Permanent]

.Speaking of scammer, I don't think I've ever come accross a bigger one than this one. She even makes the Nigerian kings and royalty scam letters seem harmless. LOL Check for yourself:


Honey, I have got all travel info from agency You should know it is
only booked schedule and I will send more details later when I have
tickets in my hands . I will send time of my arrival to your airport
and number of terminal . Now I am sending exact date of my flight .
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>From "Travel & Work,Moscow, RUSSIA" to Kirstina Timofeeva.



>TRAVEL INFO : Kirstina Timofeeva - Individual tour. Flight info - English variant.
>Travel dates for: Ms.Kirstina Timofeeva
>Thank you for your booking and have a pleasant journey. Kind
>regards.Travel Agency - "Travel & Work,Moscow, RUSSIA" is a licensed and officially registered travel
>agency.

>Please use our service .Manager: Ms.Tepleeva Svetlana


>The date of the flight is - Friday,17 February 2012.


>Price: Service of agency , foreign passport,visa,tax,consulate fee,ticket Eco.class.USD
>1200 USD
>all the sum : 1200 USD
>Taxes and fees 60.00USD Includes a service fee. Total trip cost
> 1260.00 USD

>Your reservation will be confirmed by e-mail. Prices are not
>confirmed until we issue your confirmation invoice.


>This reservation will be automatically cancelled if the order is not
>purchased until - Thursday, 16 February 2012.



Honey, I am here after my visit to the consulate and to the agency so please be ready to read my long letter. The thing that mom was able to send me only 200$ due to finance problems at home, so I received a transfer today morning and I need your help. Mom told me that I can ask you about help if you are my beloved and she will send all the sum in a few weeks and i will give it all to you. Honey, I wanted, to ask you to help me to pay for my tickets directly but I was told in travel agency I can't use your help or ask you about sending me tickets or ordering electronic ones because I have a permission to use the help of the travel agency only. You see it is business of travel agency to arrange all travel things for my trip, such is the law. If I will buy ticket by myself, I will be not able to use my work visa. So you can't send me tickets.you see the price of the trip is big enough but I can get work permission
only with help of agency.

If I will not buy tickets my visa will be canceled and it will be forbidden for me to apply for visa again for next 8 months. Now I have only about 150 dollars that I expected to take with me for the first time and plus 200$ mom sent so if you will help me with 950$ I will have enough to buy tickets and have some extra money for travel needs. Well,I will be here tonight and please don't worry if I can't answer immedeatelly . I have
too much to do. Lorenzo please make transfer by western union, I
got transfer from mom and have all the info for it, it was so easy to get. You should know my rent address here is Russia, Moscow, pereulok Vasilkovaya 91 - 17. My full name is Kirstina(first name) Timofeeva(last name) and I can pick up the money at any bank of moscow.

It will be safe to use western union transfer! Please try to help me with the sum and in one month I will return you money back!!

P.S. Honey, dear I am sure when we meet we will have no regrets about it, I promise. I dream about our first meeting, our first kiss ,our first night.............I will dance for you, I think everything depends on
you! Please, honey, don't leave me alone I've done so much to start
this trip and I don't want to give up. And as always forget about
important thing, when I got my mom transfer in western union bank here
I fill out the form and I send this form because I can't get transfer from you if I don't know this info to fill the form. I need to know Full name of the sender. The name of the town from where the transfer was sent.
MTCN transfer number. I am sending my best photos to make you sure
that I look enough well for you and some fotos from my ex job I worked as model.

Kirstina

[K-man]

Just gotta LOL at this scammer! Law of large numbers at work here: send such emails to 50-100 dudes, might find one sucker, not a bad ROI!

Truth be told, I once had one Bulgarian girl visit me in the US who asked me to pay for her ticket and when she came over she gave me back the money in cash. She later told me she wanted to make sure I was for real and had some skin in the game and she would not find herself in a strange airport with noone waiting for her. But the difference is I had already met her in person in Bulgaria before that, and also I did not send cash by Western Union, I paid for a ticket directly so that it was of no use for her to spend on anything else.