[GunznButta]

following from wolf's and blurb's posts....

the old traditional polynesian cultures were matrilineal from what i understood. men were responsible for warring for turf, fighting for turf, gaining turf, whacking heads, explore, expand and getting more turf and territory.

women were responsible for bringing in the fruits that the land their men gained dominion over. they got the poi, papaya, pigs, pakalolo, and whatever the conquered lands had to offer.

women get to order society and decide the most worthy men to breed with according to their fun/tastes; maybe it's the super schlong for one; maybe the super surfer for another, humorous artist, spear thrower or whatever.... i don't know or care in this equation....

the rub is this: is the perfect society where men get to live/hunt/explore/fuck as they choose and not have to worry about the consequences (knowing that mama society will take care of their kiddies/and them whoever the daddy?) aka the totally alpha life...

or is it to stay close to the village and play the wahines? (which is a bit beta (and possibly fuck more) to be sure...)

(yeah this is a bit apocryphal/possibly racist of pacific islanders so i'll apologize in advance if i offend you...)

[gds555]

This is just stating the obvious about the picture of Polynesian societies (which ones?) that you've painted--whether that picture is accurate or not--but I'll say it anyway: Societies like that would be great if you were an alpha or a high-level beta. But if you were one of those guys who women rarely or never judged worthy to have sex, then it'd seriously suck. Especially since there'd be few or no alternatives to your situation. So for many, many guys, modern Western society, as bad as it is, has to be counted as preferable. If for no other reason than that there's always the possibility of going to prostitutes as a last resort.

[Cincinnatus]

I'll take modernized patriarchies over primitive matriarchies any day.

Women did not build civilization, and matriarchies tend to be weak and underdeveloped.

Did the Polynesians get it right? Absolutely not.

[Excelsior]

(02-13-2012 05:03 AM)GunznButta Wrote:  

(yeah this is a bit apocryphal/possibly racist of pacific islanders so i'll apologize in advance if i offend you...)

You're describing many parts of Native America and Africa as well.

[Giovonny]

Some of those primitive societies really had their "gender roles" sorted out!

Here is an old Indian joke that I stole this from Roosh's twitter..

Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official, 'You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done.'

The Chief nodded in agreement.

The official continued, 'Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?'

The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied. 'When white man find this land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex.'

Then the chief leaned back and smiled.

'Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that.

[Chad Daring]

I think you're overshooting what is a good point about how things used to be and why feminists are delusional bitches.

In ancient times men did the manly shit, women did the womanly shit. Men hunted, fought, and built, while women were the caregivers. They raised the young, tended the sick, fed the masses, ect. The society, while not built upon the women, was highly dependent upon them. They bolstered their men. This is what feminists seem to have missed. The traditional female role was incredibly integral to the success of the species.

Compare that to today where the women DONT do any of the womanly things, and dont bolster men, now the men aren't free to be men because they must also do the tasks women did before as well as working, building, and fighting. Same for women, they're no longer free to be women because whether they like it or not they're required to do the things men do (work, make money, bringing of bacon). Now women are no longer integral to society, they're just watered down men, they've actually lost power and influence because of feminism.

[WestIndianArchie]

Have you considered traditional Arabic societies?

We now associate all the head dress/lack of opportunity with Islam, but truth betold, most of that was happening in the cradle of civilization from the very beginning

women
- covered from head to toe
- sexuality very controlled
- access to men, very limited
- supervised dates
- marriages based on family
- dowries being paid to take the woman off of the father's hands
- stay at home, take care of kids, stay uneducated

Men - do everything.
- can take multiple wives!

Arguably, you've got lots of young men
- engaging in "same gender loving" because there are no available women,
- engaging in pederasty
- possible explanation for political unrest (i.e revolutions or terrorism)

I can't think of any good historical models. Maybe the best time that we've had is when the sexual revolution got ahead of the work-place revolution. Free to fuck, but still couldn't get a job.

That probably happened before most of us were born.

WIA

[GunznButta]

sorry folks was away on a trip.

i decided this thread is too vaguely related to game and my op was too open-ended so i'm gonna kill it.

final thread comments:

@WIA: didn't think of arab societies but good point. as they used to say: heavy is the head that wears the crown. problem with modern feminism is they like wearing the crown (ex: wanting to be in the military) but they don't want the responsibilities that come with it (ex: having to train to haul shot up fellow soldiers off the front line.)

@chad. completely agree. modernization has blessings and curses (like feminism.) if sue wants to be butch in her youth she can be cat lady in her dotage...

@Giovonny: if roosh posted that tweet it'd suggest he'd come down on the maternal side of the spectrum just a little

@MSW: comparing modern industrial societies to traditional ones is like comparing the prancing horse (aka ferrari) to a horse (4 hoof kind) as modes of transportation; somewhat related but totally different animals altogether. no slam intended.

that said,