Thailand: A good country for older men. - Printable Version
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Thailand: A good country for older men. - nomadbrah - 09-23-2017
Quote: (09-23-2017 05:16 PM)SlickyBoy Wrote:
Quote: (09-23-2017 04:11 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:
Part-time jobs and volunteer jobs are practically impossible to get in Thailand.
Most fields of work are restricted for foreigners in Thailand. All manual labor for example. Volunteer work requires work permit. Can't fully own a normal Thai business either.
Thailand law is extremely restrictive to the point of hostile towards foreigners. Integration is virtually impossible.
I wouldn't say most fields, but yes, unskilled or semi-skilled labor is pretty much restricted to Thai nationals. Unless your only skill is being a bricklayer, a Thai doll maker or a hairdresser, there are other possibilities and getting the right visa is not out of the question. But it is true that you will always be a farang.
There are ways to get work permit and companies but it requires - to my knowledge - academic credentials, BOT companies or a Thai partner. Then you can do a lot behind the scenes but legally by the book difficult. The problem with this is that if you do want to integrate and contribute to Thailand, even not wanting to be a citizen (technically possible, but practically not), it doesn't seem Thais really want you to. Maybe you want to help out poor children learn to use computers, which is definitely something lacking. That would require a work permit and even if you had it, is there a culture to allow a foreigner to integrate? There are - some - foreigners who live 10-20-30 years in Thailand and seem to become integrated. I don't think it's easy and best something begun when you're young enough to get educated in Thailand. School friends usually last.
Edit: That Karsten guy has a good blog, very helpful and legit unlike so many other "expat blogs".
Thailand: A good country for older men. - soltopia - 09-23-2017
I have bought cans of beer for 20c all over Spain. Try Aldi.
Even on Koh San you won't get a big Chang under 80 baht, anything around that and you'll be sitting on a tiny plastic chair surrounded by kathoeys and other low life.
In a half nice Irish bar you are paying 150 baht for a small beer. Sod that!
Thailand: A good country for older men. - KYT88 - 09-26-2017
Quote: (09-23-2017 09:20 PM)soltopia Wrote:
I have bought cans of beer for 20c all over Spain. Try Aldi.
Even on Koh San you won't get a big Chang under 80 baht, anything around that and you'll be sitting on a tiny plastic chair surrounded by kathoeys and other low life.
In a half nice Irish bar you are paying 150 baht for a small beer. Sod that!
Right so you don't want to pay 80baht on KS because you will be surrounded by low life but 150baht for a small beer is too expensive for you? Hmmmm......
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Duke Main - 05-12-2018
I'm in Thailand and I'm an older man, so I'd like to revive this thread a bit. The OP seems to have gone awol, but I hope he'll return.
I started this thread, but I think it could be useful here.
thread-68262.html
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Duke Main - 05-12-2018
Quote: (09-13-2017 12:51 PM)Svoboda Wrote:I've had very positive interactions.
What are people's experiences with Chinese Thai?
When I was still married, my wife and I hosted a Chinese Thai exchange student from a wealthy family. She is very intelligent and sweet and I still love her like my own daughter. Her family owns a factory outside Bangkok. I've visited them there and they seemed to be genuinely liked/revered by their employees.
I recently met a Chinese Thai lady on a language website (interpals). She came from a poor background growing up in Southern Thailand. She was working full time while still a high school student, and maintaining a 4.0 average. She's in her mid 20s now and has a teaching business linked to a large university and she owns a house and car, both modest, but that's a serious achievement in my opinion. She was very kind to me when I visited her city, touring me around the area when she wasn't working. I had to insist on paying for almost everything. She's quite impressive in my opinion.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - seahorse - 10-02-2018
Hi Guys,
I'm 60 and heading to Thailand for 2 weeks over Christmas. I don't have a lot of game, I just want to get laid, I don't really care if I have to pay a little, I do care that I don't get any diseases and not go broke.
Any suggestions about where in Thailand I should go? I thought maybe a week in Chiang Mai and a week on a beach somewhere maybe Phi Phi?
I love the ocean and do want to enjoy friendly crowds but I'm not looking for any wild party scene.
I'm a pretty quiet guy, fairly fit, and I don't drink.
I currently live in the US and I've also lived in England and Australia, and a year in India a long time ago. I enjoy travel and I'm not too type A so I think I'll be reasonably comfortable traveling in SEA.
Someone told me that AirBnbs are generally good and affordable accommodations in Thailand. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
Thanks in advance for any info and tips.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - seaofp - 10-02-2018
Quote: (10-02-2018 01:01 AM)seahorse Wrote:
Hi Guys,
I'm 60 and heading to Thailand for 2 weeks over Christmas. I don't have a lot of game, I just want to get laid, I don't really care if I have to pay a little, I do care that I don't get any diseases and not go broke.
Any suggestions about where in Thailand I should go? I thought maybe a week in Chiang Mai and a week on a beach somewhere maybe Phi Phi?
I love the ocean and do want to enjoy friendly crowds but I'm not looking for any wild party scene.
I'm a pretty quiet guy, fairly fit, and I don't drink.
I currently live in the US and I've also lived in England and Australia, and a year in India a long time ago. I enjoy travel and I'm not too type A so I think I'll be reasonably comfortable traveling in SEA.
Someone told me that AirBnbs are generally good and affordable accommodations in Thailand. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
Thanks in advance for any info and tips.
I always enjoy Koh Samui, Phuket not so much.
Hotels are quite good value in Thailand, never seen big savings by using Airbnb there.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - VincentVinturi - 10-02-2018
I'm not quite what you'd call an older guy yet - I'm 32 years old - but I've been based primarily in Thailand for going on 6 years now.
I recently came back from a 10 day trip to Saigon, Vietnam and a beach town called Hoi An - and while it was a pretty cool trip overall and Vietnam is a crazy scene - I felt a wave of happiness wash right over me as soon as I stepped back onto Thai soil. It happens every time...
I also wholeheartedly agree with OP that the overarching atmosphere in Thailand is something of a "live and let live" approach to life. It's probably the reason that a lot of Western expats feel so at home here, myself included, and all of the hullabaloo about Thai xenophobia notwithstanding. In the States, where I'm from, there's certainly a lot of lip service to the IDEAS of freedom, but less and less of it is evident in the actual day to day reality.
One famous libertarian economist quipped that all countries and their governments are corrupt but the ones that should really frighten you are the ones with the money and resources to effectively meddle in your life.
It seems to me that you can bribe your way out of most petty troubles like not having a helmet on when you're driving a motorbike, or even something more serious like getting caught with drugs (although I wouldn't recommend trying your luck with that one). By and large my experience as a foreigner is that the police are interested primarily in making some cash; they're not on some giant collective power trip like they are in the US. Or at least to nowhere the same degree.
The practical consequence of all of this is that you're pretty much free to do what you want as long as you don't fuck with anybody, and nobody will bug you for the most part.
A lot of this is also attributable to the unique confluence of Thai religion, history, temperament, and culture. Of all of the countries in the SEA region I find Thais to be the most pleasant, all things considered. They smile a lot, they're warm and friendly, and generally helpful. Sure, the smiles are put on; sure they lie through their teeth about all things great and small. But a lot of them are genuine too, especially if you can speak a bit more Thai than the average farang.
I actually had a chuckle about this earlier today because I just got back from Vietnam and was thinking that the people there seemed more bellicose (got cursed at twice in the span of a week, which has only happened once in Thailand in 6 years) and less prone to "causeless" smiling, which is also something that will make people in the Eastern bloc countries think you're mentally ill (or so I'm told).
A Ukrainian friend of mine told me that Vietnamese are closer to Ukrainians in disposition than Thais. Hmm.
On the other hand, if you invert the perspective, why would you want to go around with a dour puss on, all morose and forbidding, eschewing the opportunity and tiny pleasure of greeting your fellow man with a small contraction of your facial musculature?
This is something I can appreciate about the US. People are really friendly and chummy with one another, at least in my southern home town in Florida. I'm not super smiley but it feels good when people around you are making an effort to interact warmly with one another, even if it's sometimes faked.
On OP's point about Thais not gossiping, my experience has been that they ask you probing personal questions about everything from your paramours to your finances, if you could call that gossip. Both of these really used to piss me off when I arrived here. But the Humphrey Bogart act and telling people to mind their own business won't endear you to anyone here, so I've learned to smile and deflect questions of that nature.
But gossiping I don't so much mind. So everybody in your neighborhood knows you bang lots of chicks. Big freaking deal.
The main point, as many have echoed, is that you can live your gossip worthy or non-gossip worthy life, whichever you prefer, without anybody actually interfering much into it. And that there is the rub.
Also agreed that with Thailand you trade several large inconveniences in the West with a plethora of smaller inconveniences. With perhaps the exception of sorting your visa situation here, which is a constant pain in the ass. And even that can be handled if you have 15 grand lying around by purchasing a Thailand Elite visa, which a friend of mine has and considers one of the best investments he's ever made. With the elite visa, all your immigration headaches disappear for the next 5 years.
The main inconveniences here are variations on the theme of lack of standards. In the West we consider doing things right and well the standard. In Thailand they consider doing things the standard. So like somebody mentioned, if you get electrical wiring done in your house, it's going to get done wrong almost guaranteed. Thais are half assers unless they're making papaya salad. I think this is really just an education issue because the younger Thai generation are creating startups, traveling abroad to study, opening all sorts of cool hipster businesses with an artisan bent, and are generally more switched on the necessity and beauty and purposefulness of doing things and, as long as you're doing them, doing them as best you can.
In terms of having Western amenities, you totally can if you're willing and able to pay for it. And even though Thailand has become more expensive - especially the gentrifying areas of Bangkok - it's still very affordable compared to the West.
Healthcare is inexpensive and top notch, although you need to do your homework and grill your doctors as you would anywhere. Many doctors are Western trained and speak excellent English, and the bigger hospitals have excellent diagnostic resources, lab facilities, and many specialists and sub-specialists. If you go to Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok you'll see that it's filled to the rafters with Saudis and sundry Arabs who come here for medical tourism and the treatment of various genetic disorders no doubt caused by generations of inbreeding.
![[Image: biggrin.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
As far as street food being unhealthy - yes, it is. But why the hell are you eating that crap to begin with? All of the big cities have excellent hipster markets with lots or organic and local foods. Villa market and Tops in Bangkok and Phuket, and Rimping market in Chiang Mai. You can also order totally organic, wild, free range, etc., prepared meals and frozen meats / fruits / veggies direct to your door from PaleoRobbie nation wide, delivered in a styrofoam box on dry ice. You absolutely do NOT have to eat crap in Thailand, and you can always ask for no MSG and no sugar. Plus, some street food is awesome like the little baked sweet potatoes in the plastic bag that's leaching loads of BPAs most likely. ^_^
The nature in Thailand is also super stunning. I lived in Bangkok for almost 2 years and now I would never live there or any other big city for more than a few months of the year because they don't have nature. And nature is medicine. In Phuket or Chiang Mai or Samui you can go to the beach or the mountains every day. You can go swim in waterfalls and trek in the jungle barefoot on acid if the mood should strike you. Makes a HUGe difference in your well being.
The rainy season is definitely a drag because it's wet as fuck all the time, and you can't really go anywhere because roads are slippery and the beach / mountains aren't super appealing when it's pouring down rain. A good option during rainy season is to go to Bali which has a sort of inverse seasonal relationship to Thailand. That's if you want to stay in Asia. More on that in a minute.
As far as the women go, I've thought about this point too. Every country has a large population of less educated bumpkins and quasi-bumpkins, and a relatively small percentage of more cultured, sophisticated and educated people. Thailand is no different. But there are relatively fewer people who would fit into the average western milieux in terms of overall education and worldliness. And there are indeed very few women whom you can connect with on any kind of deeper level.
I'm conflicted on this point because my deep, philosophical needs are met by my male friends (mostly expats, and mostly training partners in jiu jitsu or fellow online business peeps). So I don't feel the need for my women to be on this level. Yet once the honeymoon period bangathon wanes and you realize you're with a puerile twit you might start to crave a bit more intellectual stimulation.
If you're looking for a wife then that's a different matter and not something I can speak on with any authority. I suck at even keeping a steady girlfriend. But the point is that if you share this sense of compartmentalization you can act it out in Thailand because there are plenty of chicks who will assume a fairly rigid partner role without expecting any "deeper philosophical" component. You be the man, they'll be the woman, and that's where it can stay.
*In terms of Thailand starting to wear on you after a while:
The modus operandi that I'm slowly transitioning to now is to spend 6 months of the year in Thailand to be used for training, resting, relaxing, and creating. And 6 months abroad in a more cultured country to hone business skills, music skills, stoke intellectual fires, and do intense periods of productive work. The lack of culture (classical music in particular) and easy lifestyle breed complacency and a sense of intellectual stagnation that have been plaguing me and that I don't intend to abide any longer.
But all things considered, Thailand is truly a wonderful place with wonderful people, nature and culture. If you can take ownership of the negatives and avoid / mitigate them as much as is in your power (a lot of which is simply proportional to your financial power) then you might come here and never want to leave. I for one will always consider this my home base.
??
Thailand: A good country for older men. - LowerCaseG - 10-02-2018
Go to Koh Samui for the whole 2 weeks if that's what you want. Don't waste too much time traveling between places. Just walk around the various hotels and check them out, and negotiate for a room. I wouldn't get something in advance.
Quote: (10-02-2018 01:01 AM)seahorse Wrote:
Hi Guys,
I'm 60 and heading to Thailand for 2 weeks over Christmas. I don't have a lot of game, I just want to get laid, I don't really care if I have to pay a little, I do care that I don't get any diseases and not go broke.
Any suggestions about where in Thailand I should go? I thought maybe a week in Chiang Mai and a week on a beach somewhere maybe Phi Phi?
I love the ocean and do want to enjoy friendly crowds but I'm not looking for any wild party scene.
I'm a pretty quiet guy, fairly fit, and I don't drink.
I currently live in the US and I've also lived in England and Australia, and a year in India a long time ago. I enjoy travel and I'm not too type A so I think I'll be reasonably comfortable traveling in SEA.
Someone told me that AirBnbs are generally good and affordable accommodations in Thailand. Anyone have any thoughts about that?
Thanks in advance for any info and tips.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - LowerCaseG - 10-02-2018
What's the deal with Chao Po?
I remember trying to read about them on the internet years ago and there was very little information. Some sort of Chinese/Thai Organized Crime/Government amalgam.
Quote: (05-12-2018 04:50 AM)Duke Main Wrote:
Quote: (09-13-2017 12:51 PM)Svoboda Wrote:I've had very positive interactions.
What are people's experiences with Chinese Thai?
When I was still married, my wife and I hosted a Chinese Thai exchange student from a wealthy family. She is very intelligent and sweet and I still love her like my own daughter. Her family owns a factory outside Bangkok. I've visited them there and they seemed to be genuinely liked/revered by their employees.
I recently met a Chinese Thai lady on a language website (interpals). She came from a poor background growing up in Southern Thailand. She was working full time while still a high school student, and maintaining a 4.0 average. She's in her mid 20s now and has a teaching business linked to a large university and she owns a house and car, both modest, but that's a serious achievement in my opinion. She was very kind to me when I visited her city, touring me around the area when she wasn't working. I had to insist on paying for almost everything. She's quite impressive in my opinion.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - seahorse - 10-03-2018
Quote: (10-02-2018 04:52 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:
I wouldn't get something in advance.
Hi LowerCaseG,
Thanks for replying. That sounds really tempting but because it's the Christmas and (Western) New Year's holiday season, I was afraid everything will be sold out in advance. Do you think I'm being too cautious?
Thailand: A good country for older men. - seaofp - 10-04-2018
Quote: (10-03-2018 11:21 PM)seahorse Wrote:
Quote: (10-02-2018 04:52 PM)LowerCaseG Wrote:
I wouldn't get something in advance.
Hi LowerCaseG,
Thanks for replying. That sounds really tempting but because it's the Christmas and (Western) New Year's holiday season, I was afraid everything will be sold out in advance. Do you think I'm being too cautious?
that time of year can cause a lot of "no vacancy" problems in the tourist towns......best book ahead.
also a lot of people find Koh Phi Phi is paradise lost.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - chrisblackbeard - 10-04-2018
With the rising of white hate and toxic male to female relationships, I think we will see a lot more men moving to this part of the world.
My plane leaves this January. And I'm 22.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Buddydowrongright2 - 10-05-2018
Quote: (10-02-2018 01:02 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:
I'm not quite what you'd call an older guy yet - I'm 32 years old - but I've been based primarily in Thailand for going on 6 years now.
I recently came back from a 10 day trip to Saigon, Vietnam and a beach town called Hoi An - and while it was a pretty cool trip overall and Vietnam is a crazy scene - I felt a wave of happiness wash right over me as soon as I stepped back onto Thai soil. It happens every time...
I also wholeheartedly agree with OP that the overarching atmosphere in Thailand is something of a "live and let live" approach to life. It's probably the reason that a lot of Western expats feel so at home here, myself included, and all of the hullabaloo about Thai xenophobia notwithstanding. In the States, where I'm from, there's certainly a lot of lip service to the IDEAS of freedom, but less and less of it is evident in the actual day to day reality.
One famous libertarian economist quipped that all countries and their governments are corrupt but the ones that should really frighten you are the ones with the money and resources to effectively meddle in your life.
It seems to me that you can bribe your way out of most petty troubles like not having a helmet on when you're driving a motorbike, or even something more serious like getting caught with drugs (although I wouldn't recommend trying your luck with that one). By and large my experience as a foreigner is that the police are interested primarily in making some cash; they're not on some giant collective power trip like they are in the US. Or at least to nowhere the same degree.
The practical consequence of all of this is that you're pretty much free to do what you want as long as you don't fuck with anybody, and nobody will bug you for the most part.
A lot of this is also attributable to the unique confluence of Thai religion, history, temperament, and culture. Of all of the countries in the SEA region I find Thais to be the most pleasant, all things considered. They smile a lot, they're warm and friendly, and generally helpful. Sure, the smiles are put on; sure they lie through their teeth about all things great and small. But a lot of them are genuine too, especially if you can speak a bit more Thai than the average farang.
I actually had a chuckle about this earlier today because I just got back from Vietnam and was thinking that the people there seemed more bellicose (got cursed at twice in the span of a week, which has only happened once in Thailand in 6 years) and less prone to "causeless" smiling, which is also something that will make people in the Eastern bloc countries think you're mentally ill (or so I'm told).
A Ukrainian friend of mine told me that Vietnamese are closer to Ukrainians in disposition than Thais. Hmm.
On the other hand, if you invert the perspective, why would you want to go around with a dour puss on, all morose and forbidding, eschewing the opportunity and tiny pleasure of greeting your fellow man with a small contraction of your facial musculature?
This is something I can appreciate about the US. People are really friendly and chummy with one another, at least in my southern home town in Florida. I'm not super smiley but it feels good when people around you are making an effort to interact warmly with one another, even if it's sometimes faked.
On OP's point about Thais not gossiping, my experience has been that they ask you probing personal questions about everything from your paramours to your finances, if you could call that gossip. Both of these really used to piss me off when I arrived here. But the Humphrey Bogart act and telling people to mind their own business won't endear you to anyone here, so I've learned to smile and deflect questions of that nature.
But gossiping I don't so much mind. So everybody in your neighborhood knows you bang lots of chicks. Big freaking deal.
The main point, as many have echoed, is that you can live your gossip worthy or non-gossip worthy life, whichever you prefer, without anybody actually interfering much into it. And that there is the rub.
Also agreed that with Thailand you trade several large inconveniences in the West with a plethora of smaller inconveniences. With perhaps the exception of sorting your visa situation here, which is a constant pain in the ass. And even that can be handled if you have 15 grand lying around by purchasing a Thailand Elite visa, which a friend of mine has and considers one of the best investments he's ever made. With the elite visa, all your immigration headaches disappear for the next 5 years.
The main inconveniences here are variations on the theme of lack of standards. In the West we consider doing things right and well the standard. In Thailand they consider doing things the standard. So like somebody mentioned, if you get electrical wiring done in your house, it's going to get done wrong almost guaranteed. Thais are half assers unless they're making papaya salad. I think this is really just an education issue because the younger Thai generation are creating startups, traveling abroad to study, opening all sorts of cool hipster businesses with an artisan bent, and are generally more switched on the necessity and beauty and purposefulness of doing things and, as long as you're doing them, doing them as best you can.
In terms of having Western amenities, you totally can if you're willing and able to pay for it. And even though Thailand has become more expensive - especially the gentrifying areas of Bangkok - it's still very affordable compared to the West.
Healthcare is inexpensive and top notch, although you need to do your homework and grill your doctors as you would anywhere. Many doctors are Western trained and speak excellent English, and the bigger hospitals have excellent diagnostic resources, lab facilities, and many specialists and sub-specialists. If you go to Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok you'll see that it's filled to the rafters with Saudis and sundry Arabs who come here for medical tourism and the treatment of various genetic disorders no doubt caused by generations of inbreeding.
As far as street food being unhealthy - yes, it is. But why the hell are you eating that crap to begin with? All of the big cities have excellent hipster markets with lots or organic and local foods. Villa market and Tops in Bangkok and Phuket, and Rimping market in Chiang Mai. You can also order totally organic, wild, free range, etc., prepared meals and frozen meats / fruits / veggies direct to your door from PaleoRobbie nation wide, delivered in a styrofoam box on dry ice. You absolutely do NOT have to eat crap in Thailand, and you can always ask for no MSG and no sugar. Plus, some street food is awesome like the little baked sweet potatoes in the plastic bag that's leaching loads of BPAs most likely. ^_^
The nature in Thailand is also super stunning. I lived in Bangkok for almost 2 years and now I would never live there or any other big city for more than a few months of the year because they don't have nature. And nature is medicine. In Phuket or Chiang Mai or Samui you can go to the beach or the mountains every day. You can go swim in waterfalls and trek in the jungle barefoot on acid if the mood should strike you. Makes a HUGe difference in your well being.
The rainy season is definitely a drag because it's wet as fuck all the time, and you can't really go anywhere because roads are slippery and the beach / mountains aren't super appealing when it's pouring down rain. A good option during rainy season is to go to Bali which has a sort of inverse seasonal relationship to Thailand. That's if you want to stay in Asia. More on that in a minute.
As far as the women go, I've thought about this point too. Every country has a large population of less educated bumpkins and quasi-bumpkins, and a relatively small percentage of more cultured, sophisticated and educated people. Thailand is no different. But there are relatively fewer people who would fit into the average western milieux in terms of overall education and worldliness. And there are indeed very few women whom you can connect with on any kind of deeper level.
I'm conflicted on this point because my deep, philosophical needs are met by my male friends (mostly expats, and mostly training partners in jiu jitsu or fellow online business peeps). So I don't feel the need for my women to be on this level. Yet once the honeymoon period bangathon wanes and you realize you're with a puerile twit you might start to crave a bit more intellectual stimulation.
If you're looking for a wife then that's a different matter and not something I can speak on with any authority. I suck at even keeping a steady girlfriend. But the point is that if you share this sense of compartmentalization you can act it out in Thailand because there are plenty of chicks who will assume a fairly rigid partner role without expecting any "deeper philosophical" component. You be the man, they'll be the woman, and that's where it can stay.
*In terms of Thailand starting to wear on you after a while:
The modus operandi that I'm slowly transitioning to now is to spend 6 months of the year in Thailand to be used for training, resting, relaxing, and creating. And 6 months abroad in a more cultured country to hone business skills, music skills, stoke intellectual fires, and do intense periods of productive work. The lack of culture (classical music in particular) and easy lifestyle breed complacency and a sense of intellectual stagnation that have been plaguing me and that I don't intend to abide any longer.
But all things considered, Thailand is truly a wonderful place with wonderful people, nature and culture. If you can take ownership of the negatives and avoid / mitigate them as much as is in your power (a lot of which is simply proportional to your financial power) then you might come here and never want to leave. I for one will always consider this my home base.
??
Much respect for this post, Mr. Vinturi. I came to Thailand recently for a training/health escape, and now I never want to leave. My time here only numbers in the months, not years, but so far my experience with the women here has been overall positive - although the quality does seem lower than Eastern Europe.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - CleanSlate - 10-05-2018
VV, great post and I agree with most of it.
Quote: (10-02-2018 01:02 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:
I actually had a chuckle about this earlier today because I just got back from Vietnam and was thinking that the people there seemed more bellicose (got cursed at twice in the span of a week, which has only happened once in Thailand in 6 years) and less prone to "causeless" smiling, which is also something that will make people in the Eastern bloc countries think you're mentally ill (or so I'm told).
A Ukrainian friend of mine told me that Vietnamese are closer to Ukrainians in disposition than Thais. Hmm.
While the Vietnamese are more outwardly genuine than Thais (in the sense of how they're really feeling and whether they like or dislike you), I don't know why you got cursed out twice in the span of a week. Not without reason, anyway. Maybe a little context will help.
I've never gotten cursed out in Vietnam. The only time I got a hostile glare was when I was crossing a street and some guy on the motorbike nearly ran me over, and we exchanged "what the hell do you think you're doing!" glares. But my experience in Vietnam has been overwhelmingly positive and I also get more intellectual stimulation here than anywhere else in SEA.
But there's a lot to like about Thailand, that's for sure.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - VincentVinturi - 10-05-2018
^^^
Vietnam is a fascinating place isn't it?
Well worth spending more time there.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Downunder - 10-18-2018
Quote: (10-02-2018 01:02 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:
I'm not quite what you'd call an older guy yet - I'm 32 years old - but I've been based primarily in Thailand for going on 6 years now.
I recently came back from a 10 day trip to Saigon, Vietnam and a beach town called Hoi An - and while it was a pretty cool trip overall and Vietnam is a crazy scene - I felt a wave of happiness wash right over me as soon as I stepped back onto Thai soil. It happens every time...
I also wholeheartedly agree with OP that the overarching atmosphere in Thailand is something of a "live and let live" approach to life. It's probably the reason that a lot of Western expats feel so at home here, myself included, and all of the hullabaloo about Thai xenophobia notwithstanding. In the States, where I'm from, there's certainly a lot of lip service to the IDEAS of freedom, but less and less of it is evident in the actual day to day reality.
One famous libertarian economist quipped that all countries and their governments are corrupt but the ones that should really frighten you are the ones with the money and resources to effectively meddle in your life.
It seems to me that you can bribe your way out of most petty troubles like not having a helmet on when you're driving a motorbike, or even something more serious like getting caught with drugs (although I wouldn't recommend trying your luck with that one). By and large my experience as a foreigner is that the police are interested primarily in making some cash; they're not on some giant collective power trip like they are in the US. Or at least to nowhere the same degree.
The practical consequence of all of this is that you're pretty much free to do what you want as long as you don't fuck with anybody, and nobody will bug you for the most part.
A lot of this is also attributable to the unique confluence of Thai religion, history, temperament, and culture. Of all of the countries in the SEA region I find Thais to be the most pleasant, all things considered. They smile a lot, they're warm and friendly, and generally helpful. Sure, the smiles are put on; sure they lie through their teeth about all things great and small. But a lot of them are genuine too, especially if you can speak a bit more Thai than the average farang.
I actually had a chuckle about this earlier today because I just got back from Vietnam and was thinking that the people there seemed more bellicose (got cursed at twice in the span of a week, which has only happened once in Thailand in 6 years) and less prone to "causeless" smiling, which is also something that will make people in the Eastern bloc countries think you're mentally ill (or so I'm told).
A Ukrainian friend of mine told me that Vietnamese are closer to Ukrainians in disposition than Thais. Hmm.
On the other hand, if you invert the perspective, why would you want to go around with a dour puss on, all morose and forbidding, eschewing the opportunity and tiny pleasure of greeting your fellow man with a small contraction of your facial musculature?
This is something I can appreciate about the US. People are really friendly and chummy with one another, at least in my southern home town in Florida. I'm not super smiley but it feels good when people around you are making an effort to interact warmly with one another, even if it's sometimes faked.
On OP's point about Thais not gossiping, my experience has been that they ask you probing personal questions about everything from your paramours to your finances, if you could call that gossip. Both of these really used to piss me off when I arrived here. But the Humphrey Bogart act and telling people to mind their own business won't endear you to anyone here, so I've learned to smile and deflect questions of that nature.
But gossiping I don't so much mind. So everybody in your neighborhood knows you bang lots of chicks. Big freaking deal.
The main point, as many have echoed, is that you can live your gossip worthy or non-gossip worthy life, whichever you prefer, without anybody actually interfering much into it. And that there is the rub.
Also agreed that with Thailand you trade several large inconveniences in the West with a plethora of smaller inconveniences. With perhaps the exception of sorting your visa situation here, which is a constant pain in the ass. And even that can be handled if you have 15 grand lying around by purchasing a Thailand Elite visa, which a friend of mine has and considers one of the best investments he's ever made. With the elite visa, all your immigration headaches disappear for the next 5 years.
The main inconveniences here are variations on the theme of lack of standards. In the West we consider doing things right and well the standard. In Thailand they consider doing things the standard. So like somebody mentioned, if you get electrical wiring done in your house, it's going to get done wrong almost guaranteed. Thais are half assers unless they're making papaya salad. I think this is really just an education issue because the younger Thai generation are creating startups, traveling abroad to study, opening all sorts of cool hipster businesses with an artisan bent, and are generally more switched on the necessity and beauty and purposefulness of doing things and, as long as you're doing them, doing them as best you can.
In terms of having Western amenities, you totally can if you're willing and able to pay for it. And even though Thailand has become more expensive - especially the gentrifying areas of Bangkok - it's still very affordable compared to the West.
Healthcare is inexpensive and top notch, although you need to do your homework and grill your doctors as you would anywhere. Many doctors are Western trained and speak excellent English, and the bigger hospitals have excellent diagnostic resources, lab facilities, and many specialists and sub-specialists. If you go to Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok you'll see that it's filled to the rafters with Saudis and sundry Arabs who come here for medical tourism and the treatment of various genetic disorders no doubt caused by generations of inbreeding.
As far as street food being unhealthy - yes, it is. But why the hell are you eating that crap to begin with? All of the big cities have excellent hipster markets with lots or organic and local foods. Villa market and Tops in Bangkok and Phuket, and Rimping market in Chiang Mai. You can also order totally organic, wild, free range, etc., prepared meals and frozen meats / fruits / veggies direct to your door from PaleoRobbie nation wide, delivered in a styrofoam box on dry ice. You absolutely do NOT have to eat crap in Thailand, and you can always ask for no MSG and no sugar. Plus, some street food is awesome like the little baked sweet potatoes in the plastic bag that's leaching loads of BPAs most likely. ^_^
The nature in Thailand is also super stunning. I lived in Bangkok for almost 2 years and now I would never live there or any other big city for more than a few months of the year because they don't have nature. And nature is medicine. In Phuket or Chiang Mai or Samui you can go to the beach or the mountains every day. You can go swim in waterfalls and trek in the jungle barefoot on acid if the mood should strike you. Makes a HUGe difference in your well being.
The rainy season is definitely a drag because it's wet as fuck all the time, and you can't really go anywhere because roads are slippery and the beach / mountains aren't super appealing when it's pouring down rain. A good option during rainy season is to go to Bali which has a sort of inverse seasonal relationship to Thailand. That's if you want to stay in Asia. More on that in a minute.
As far as the women go, I've thought about this point too. Every country has a large population of less educated bumpkins and quasi-bumpkins, and a relatively small percentage of more cultured, sophisticated and educated people. Thailand is no different. But there are relatively fewer people who would fit into the average western milieux in terms of overall education and worldliness. And there are indeed very few women whom you can connect with on any kind of deeper level.
I'm conflicted on this point because my deep, philosophical needs are met by my male friends (mostly expats, and mostly training partners in jiu jitsu or fellow online business peeps). So I don't feel the need for my women to be on this level. Yet once the honeymoon period bangathon wanes and you realize you're with a puerile twit you might start to crave a bit more intellectual stimulation.
If you're looking for a wife then that's a different matter and not something I can speak on with any authority. I suck at even keeping a steady girlfriend. But the point is that if you share this sense of compartmentalization you can act it out in Thailand because there are plenty of chicks who will assume a fairly rigid partner role without expecting any "deeper philosophical" component. You be the man, they'll be the woman, and that's where it can stay.
*In terms of Thailand starting to wear on you after a while:
The modus operandi that I'm slowly transitioning to now is to spend 6 months of the year in Thailand to be used for training, resting, relaxing, and creating. And 6 months abroad in a more cultured country to hone business skills, music skills, stoke intellectual fires, and do intense periods of productive work. The lack of culture (classical music in particular) and easy lifestyle breed complacency and a sense of intellectual stagnation that have been plaguing me and that I don't intend to abide any longer.
But all things considered, Thailand is truly a wonderful place with wonderful people, nature and culture. If you can take ownership of the negatives and avoid / mitigate them as much as is in your power (a lot of which is simply proportional to your financial power) then you might come here and never want to leave. I for one will always consider this my home base.
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What a superb post! Lots of perspective which I loved reading. Definitely will try out Thailand.
I just turned 50 and will probably either go for the Thai Elite or Retirement Visa option.
Do you recommend one over the other??
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Jefferson - 10-18-2018
I really don't like Phuket, though it has nice parts. Very seedy and crowded
Hua Hin definitely does not do it for me either, too small.
Bangkok is one of the best cities in SE Asia though and very underrated.
The one reason I would not settle there is the language issue, the alphabet is unlearnable really and all the advantages of Thailand you can have in other SE Asian countries which use a western Alphabet and you can actually learn the language.
I am also concerned that the crime level in Thailand is rising but that may be a news thing, I don't live there.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - I_luh_durian - 10-18-2018
Quote: (10-18-2018 11:31 AM)Jefferson Wrote:
I really don't like Phuket, though it has nice parts. Very seedy and crowded
Hua Hin definitely does not do it for me either, too small.
Bangkok is one of the best cities in SE Asia though and very underrated.
The one reason I would not settle there is the language issue, the alphabet is unlearnable really and all the advantages of Thailand you can have in other SE Asian countries which use a western Alphabet and you can actually learn the language.
I am also concerned that the crime level in Thailand is rising but that may be a news thing, I don't live there.
I agree with you wholeheartedly and I love BKK but the damn air quality kills is for me... you are just taking years away from yourself hanging out in the city 24/7
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Jefferson - 10-18-2018
Oh yes, that's a good point, the air quality in Thailand. Apparently some people move to Chiang Mai for that but even there apparently there are months when the air quality is very bad. There is a specific reason for it that escapes me now. Chiang Mai is actually an area I would like to see. Have heard good things.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - DarkTriad - 10-18-2018
Quote: (10-18-2018 01:42 PM)Jefferson Wrote:
Oh yes, that's a good point, the air quality in Thailand. Apparently some people move to Chiang Mai for that but even there apparently there are months when the air quality is very bad. There is a specific reason for it that escapes me now. Chiang Mai is actually an area I would like to see. Have heard good things.
"The Burning Season". Northern Farmers do a giant burnoff every year (feb/march?) that makes it pretty unlivable during that time.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Jefferson - 10-18-2018
Yes, exactly. It's the Northern Thailand farmers that slash and burn.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Padrino - 10-18-2018
Quote: (10-18-2018 11:31 AM)Jefferson Wrote:
I really don't like Phuket, though it has nice parts. Very seedy and crowded
Hua Hin definitely does not do it for me either, too small.
Bangkok is one of the best cities in SE Asia though and very underrated.
The one reason I would not settle there is the language issue, the alphabet is unlearnable really and all the advantages of Thailand you can have in other SE Asian countries which use a western Alphabet and you can actually learn the language.
I am also concerned that the crime level in Thailand is rising but that may be a news thing, I don't live there.
Vietnam seems to be at least 20 years behind of Thailand in terms of development and has ten times worse traffic where even crossing a road is an operation itself. Also speaking the language isn't necessarily any easier as I believe it has more tones than Thai. Malaysia and Indonesia are Muslim countries, plus KL and Jakarta are not comparable to Bangkok. Singapore is better quality but has also first world prices, which might be ok if you're living off a local salary but not suitable for anyone who is location independent. Add to that the fact that it's also just a small city state. That leaves us the Philippines where the English level is high but from what I have heard has unreliable internet, is somewhat more expensive and bureaucratic and has bad food.
Overall I think Thailand is still a pretty good package in comparison, even if there exists the language barrier and many locals seem to hold some facade in front of them.
I agree that the crime level appears to be on the rise. Although this is only anecdotal I have now twice had things stolen from a condo which seemed hard to believe a few years ago. Also the police is probably harassing foreigners in increasing numbers in hope of fast buck.
Thailand: A good country for older men. - slowpoke - 10-18-2018
Quote: (10-18-2018 11:31 AM)Jefferson Wrote:
Bangkok is one of the best cities in SE Asia though and very underrated.
Lol, underrated? It was literally the most visited city in the world last year and one of the most discussed on the forum.
I agree it's great and spend a lot of time there, but I think over hyped would be closer to the mark than underrated
Thailand: A good country for older men. - Mentavious - 10-19-2018
Quote: (10-18-2018 09:10 PM)slowpoke Wrote:
Quote: (10-18-2018 11:31 AM)Jefferson Wrote:
Bangkok is one of the best cities in SE Asia though and very underrated.
Lol, underrated? It was literally the most visited city in the world last year and one of the most discussed on the forum.
I agree it's great and spend a lot of time there, but I think over hyped would be closer to the mark than underrated
20% of Bangkok is overrated but the rest of Bangkok outside of the MRT and skytrain can be a gem.