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Employer/Employee, advice please - Charles Martel - 07-30-2017

I run a large and very busy brew-pub. I am full aware of the phrase, "Don't dip your pen in the company ink" Great advice and for a very long time, I've followed it, to the letter. I know the dangers, both from first hand experience and from places like this forum.

Two months ago, I hired a new hostess. She is an 8/10, 23 years old and has potential as an LTR, since she has passed numerous red-flags (as defined by me).

From the start, she sent me continuous IOIs. Not totally unusual in my position, but this gal is a bit different. She is actually charming and is noticeably lacking the cynical/sarcastic/snarky attitude that is the sad, sad norm of late.

That has lowered my guard.

After much debate in my head, I asked her to have drinks with me one night...specifically Wednesday, two weeks ago. She eagerly accepted, but it didn't happen, because she had lost her phone and when the day came, we had no way of planning logistics. The phone thing was legit, I knew that at the time of asking her out(it was expected to be fixed by the day in question- it wasn't)

So, today she was especially sending out the IOIs. Finding any excuse to touch me...playful hitting, as example...and asking me what I have been doing and "Gee! It's been sooo long since I've seen you!"...That kind of stuff. Now, some friends of mine had invited me to a BBQ tomorrow, Sunday evening and this seemed like the perfect opportunity to ask her out again. That was my plan.

I had printed out an updated beer menu and handed them off to her so that she could stuff our menus and get them updated. "Are you going to sit down with me?" She asked. I said maybe, then took care of a few other things, then I did so.

We made some flirty banter for a few minutes, she was up beat and giggly. Then things took a turn for the worse...

She is employed M-F at a law office and only works for me a few hours on Saturday and Sunday. So, I asked her, "So, are you a workaholic or just have an insane amount of bills?"

She proceeded to tell me that when she has down time, she makes bad decisions and really just need to have something productive to do. In the process, she told me that last year, she noticed that with so much down time plus having a physically impoverished job, she started gaining weight.

Putting on my Cheshire grin, I said, "Yeah, I've noticed"

Her face went into complete horror mode and she stammered, "You think I'm fat?"

Thinking my joke was obvious, I doubled down, "Yeah, of course"

Obviously upset, she got up and walked off.

Fuck. What have I done?

I let her have about a minute head start, then I followed. If this was some random dish...pffffft- big deal; but this was one of my employees and she works for a law office!

Double fuck.

I walked out the back door, to find all of my kitchen crew and a couple of servers had followed her (white knight, motherfuckers!) I sat down opposite her, with her in full-on eye-gushing mode and said, "You know that was just a joke, right" That was all I needed to say in front of the crew and since they sat there still gawking, I waved my hand at the door and said with a touch of anger, "Get the fuck back in there" They promptly did so.

Turning back to her I explained that it was a joke, like how you call a tall guy, "Shorty" I never actually said, "I'm sorry" just explained that it was a joke and nothing more. After a few moments, she stopped crying and tried to smile. Now she looked embarrassed.

I soothed her for a few more moments all the while thinking that this is a bridge I had burned...time to cut losses and just worry about the biz. This is one bird I won't be shanking.

Then came the inevitable hug. This was no friend hug. This was full body contact and lingering, like she didn't want to let go. It lasted quite a while.

Afterward, I cut her loose and she stuck around long enough to have two beers and chatted with me and others for a bit. All as if nothing had happened.

Hmmmmm

So, after all that...what the fuck to do?

For starters, any player knows that being able to access and control a women's emotions is the key to success. No doubt, I hit a nerve for sure, but that is a double edged sword, isn't it?

This is a strange case to me, because I am not convinced that the proper course is just to back off and go full professional on her. It may be a better idea to continue to pursue her... here's my reasoning-

As things stand, if she wanted to make a fuss over this...it's not a great case. I made a mistake, no question, but I apologized immediately, in front of about 8 witness'. I doubt the most bloodthirsty of lawyers could make much of that.

The other side of the coin is, that I am convinced she does does like me and if I am right and properly game her I can make this all just a bad memory, which will soon fade and be forgotten.

Not gonna lie, that last bit sounds like hamstering. Nevertheless, that's where my mind is at and I would like very much to get you guys' input.

What do you think?

PS- Cant help but think of this song right now...






Employer/Employee, advice please - Suits - 07-30-2017

OK, how the fuck is this the first I've heard of a forum member owning a brewpub?

Two points:

(1) OP, don't fuck this up. RVF needs a clubhouse for those of us elite enough to appreciate a quality brew.

(2) What do we need to do to establish your brewpub as an RVF clubhouse?

Employer/Employee, advice please - eradicator - 07-30-2017

She is probably angling for a harassment lawsuit so she can sue you. She works for lawyers all day. Stop trying to bang your employees unless you want to get sued.

Employer/Employee, advice please - RatInTheWoods - 07-30-2017

Back off, DONT DO IT.

You know how this is going to end.

Hopefully she will voluntarily leave in the future and you can nail her then.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Jetset - 07-30-2017

I sense a great disturbance in the force. Do not do this.

She liked you and made herself vulnerable, you accidentally crushed her fragile little heart and then recovered and now she's stuffing a zucchini up herself furiously trying to settle all the emotions you just caused.

If you stuff her yourself, I guarantee she will convince herself you took advantage of her and go nuclear afterwards. You called her fat and she works for lawyers. Stop now.

Edit: also, I predict she has a shitty relationship with her father.

Employer/Employee, advice please - H1N1 - 07-30-2017

You're a dude - if she is smoking hot and feminine and makes it easy for you, you're going to do it. Recording all conversations from this point onwards would be a good idea. That way, when you do inevitably do the wrong thing that you're going to do anyway - that we'd probably all do anyway in your position - you have a good chance to mitigate any nasty fallout. Know thyself, know what thy testicles will make you do in defiance of reason, plan accordingly.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Off The Reservation - 07-30-2017

I stopped reading after the phone lost thing. This was Not legit, this is called being flaked on.

All of your story after doesnt matter. She got the boss to invite her and she flaked.

She let you know this info as a pre flaking excuse. She could have written down your number and called from a friend or just met you at a set time and place. But she didnt - she flaked. She flaked. She flaked.

Stop repeating other peoples excuses. Never pass on excuses to others. Be a filter that they die once heard.

So now you have lost power at your job also. Rest assured everyone of your female employees know now.

Dude, go back to your rules. Are you the OWNER not the boss or manager? If you are the owner youre nuts. If youre the boss its just your job on the line.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Rhyme or Reason - 07-30-2017

^ I too was wondering if he's the owner. In either case, it's beyond stupid to go after this chick. Hell, we had a thread where we were telling a fucking bus boy to NOT shit where he eats for christ's sake...

Employer/Employee, advice please - Off The Reservation - 07-30-2017

OP now I read the rest.

LTR material?

Properly game?

What the actual fuck?

You want to go after a chick who is fat and admits to.making bad decisions at night, who has already flaked you and is starting to manipulate you.

You need to stop automatically applying vocabulary you learn here to your real world so quickly, and instead develop your own concepts slowly over time and observation and thinking. Guys throw out terms like ltr material and have no idea what they are saying. Dont be that guy.

Just think of the worst future scenario you can. One that includes an overweight bitch with your kid(s), child services, drugs, court, loss of jobs, poverty, and you being a fraction of the man you dreamed of. Then play your song and decide.

Employer/Employee, advice please - RoastBeefCurtains4Me - 07-30-2017

Quote: (07-30-2017 12:00 PM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

OP now I read the rest.

LTR material?

Properly game?

What the actual fuck?

You want to go after a chick who is fat and admits to.making bad decisions at night, who has already flaked you and is starting to manipulate you.

You need to stop automatically applying vocabulary you learn here to your real world so quickly, and instead develop your own concepts slowly over time and observation and thinking. Guys throw out terms like ltr material and have no idea what they are saying. Dont be that guy.

Just think of the worst future scenario you can. One that includes an overweight bitch with your kid(s), child services, drugs, court, loss of jobs, poverty, and you being a fraction of the man you dreamed of. Then play your song and decide.

I'm not the OP, and thinking of some worst case scenarios is enough to give me the willies, and maybe some nightmares. It's just amazing how different things can be between a single woman who is attracted to you, and that same woman a couple of years later when you married her and she's wondering what you've done for her lately. It doesn't matter that you work hard and support her, not even if you provide an extremely upscale lifestyle. These are things you did for her in the past, and what have you done lately? Nothing. Talk about a dry pussy and a bitch out of hell.

Don't be fooled.






Employer/Employee, advice please - jabberbabewocky - 07-30-2017

Can't you just find another 8/10 girl you like somewhere else with less danger?

The only way I would get sexual with a chick in this situation is if you can put yourself to openly talk about getting involved with her and then make her quit before things can get any more sexual.

Even then, even if she quits her job for you, you know that she may sue you if things don't end well. So not only you called her fat, shit would get framed as "i gave up my job for you, i went jobless because i wanted to be with you, oh i'm such a pretty little victim" even though she consented to giving up her job.

Employer/Employee, advice please - MongolianAbroad - 07-30-2017

She's very emotionally unstable.

Would not touch with a ten foot pole.

You're going to do it anyways, though, so just plan accordingly to weather any financial fallout.

[Image: agree2.gif]

Employer/Employee, advice please - RatInTheWoods - 07-30-2017

heh OP still bangs her despite 98% of his brothers warning against it in strong terms!

Employer/Employee, advice please - puckerman - 07-30-2017

You fucked up the first time you asked her out. Have you talked to your lawyer about this yet? I know what he will tell you.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Charles Martel - 07-30-2017

So, an update...

I typed out my original at about three o'clock in the morning and after having a few. I had to be back to work at 8 am. I woke up a tad late and was able to read the responses garnered thus far, but didn't have time for any reply, especially a quality one.

With a sober mind, I read those first responses and knew you were right. I was talking crap. It is very possible, that I wrote that, subconsciously knowing that I needed a thorough spine-stiffening. You all delivered.

As I headed into work ( i walk since it's only four blocks) I figured the best move was to do nothing. Business mode. Let her set the tone. I did and we exchanged "Good mornings" that was it...far different and much colder than our previous interactions. Yep, it was gonna be a long day.

For the record, I don't own the place, I run it. The owner is a great guy, but a bit more on him later...

After I had been at work for a bit, my dining room manager wants to talk, so we go out back and he brings this whole sorry scenario up. I told him what happened, plainly and factually as I could. Being a relatively red-pill guy (crimson, I would say), he understood it was merely a joke and said that he was only bringing it to my attention, because he had to. The gal in question, plus another one, had complained to him.

At that point, I decided two things-

1) I needed to talk to the owner ASAP and

2) I needed to not work today.

The second part is probably the most important. There are two kinds of sexual harassment lawsuits- one is direct favors, i.e. "Give me a blowjob and you'll get a raise"...obviously not the case here...the second is, "Creating a hostile work environment" That couldn't get any more vague, could it? But that's the one that people get taken on, routinely. Since both of us were supposed to work today, I recused myself. Better to have a bad shift and let her feel safe, secure and all snow-flaky. Lawyers would be impressed, if it gets that far.

My talk with the owner went stupidly well. He likes me and my work a lot and
I basically offered my resignation. He declined, saying that was "quitter talk" and that my knowledge and hard work, outweighed my sporadic gaff. He suggested that the three of us sit down and hash it out. He is such a smooth talker, I have little doubt, he can squelch this in about 30 seconds.

I thank all of you for your responses, that was exactly what I need (a kick up the backside).

Employer/Employee, advice please - DarkTriad - 07-30-2017

She's a pretty girl that works in a law office, this is exceedingly dangerous. Lots of older guys dying to white knight her.

Employer/Employee, advice please - General Stalin - 07-31-2017

Man what a fucking mess.

Eject, and don't let your dick get in the way of how you run your business anymore.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Simeon_Strangelight - 07-31-2017

Fuck her, but you might have to date her for a while and play a monogamous couple.

Jeez - this thread should be in the legal advice part of the RVF thread.

Employer/Employee, advice please - H1N1 - 07-31-2017

I would also say that since you are likely to cause yourself significant heartache when you do end up fucking her, it is imperative that you get anal underway early on in the proceedings. It will provide some consolation in the midst of the swirling uncertainty and destitution which will follow this dalliance to know that you did at least fuck her in the arse. It's been my recent experience that few things kindle the embers of the heart in the midst of female-induced despair quite like knowing that at least you did that.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Charles Martel - 07-31-2017

Quote: (07-30-2017 04:52 AM)Suits Wrote:  

OK, how the fuck is this the first I've heard of a forum member owning a brewpub?

Two points:

(1) OP, don't fuck this up. RVF needs a clubhouse for those of us elite enough to appreciate a quality brew.

(2) What do we need to do to establish your brewpub as an RVF clubhouse?

I have considered this place of mine as an RVF meet up joint. It's pretty perfect. Beyond great beer and food, it is strategically located just outside of a large city, which I know as fact, many, many RVF's visit on a regular basis. Further, there is a college nearby, so no lack of young tail, to chase.

Anyone interested PM me.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Simeon_Strangelight - 07-31-2017

< Somehow did not read Martel's update.

Jeez - she already went to complain about it and threw in team-sister-support into the mix.

Fucking A - the US is like a fucking landmine for men. The entire story in the rest of the world would be laughed out. Even in France, Germany or Switzerland they would care zero about it. Neither the boss, nor her co-workers, not even the female co-workers would care - no one would give a shit.

If the tables are turned that deep against men, then you cannot even engage in any flirting whatsoever, no bangs no nothing. No wonder some politicians won't even have meetings with female staff members with closed doors.

And meanwhile Russian and Chinese businessmen hire secretaries and assistants with "extras" where blowjobs and quickies are part of your job descritption. They even have women like that working in Western Europe.

This is just bullshit working in the lawyered-up feminist matriarchy, where women are strong and independent, but one word can cause her strength to topple down like a house of cards and she would then require 1 million $ to help her forget about her ordeal, so she can be a strong independent woman again.

[Image: Love-and-Other-Drugs.gif]

Strong independent empowered need-no-man fear-no-bossy woman.

The system is characterized with toxic femininity. I think the West needs another world war - and a big one - to clean this shit off the books.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Dalaran1991 - 07-31-2017

All the advice has been given, I just have one question:

Why the hell do you have girls working in your brewhouse???

I was a bartender so of course I know how having female staff at a bar is good for appearances. However: The owner is redpill and cool, you are on RVF, and the dining manager is cool. This seems like a typical man's place, a rough-gentlemen club, if even.

There's no fucking sense in letting women working here and ruining a male place. One way or the other, you end up with bullshit like this.

Even in cucked Paris we have some bars where all staff are 100% cool guys. These bars tend to have the highest quality of drink and service.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Jetset - 07-31-2017

Quote: (07-30-2017 09:28 PM)Charles Martel Wrote:  

As I headed into work ( i walk since it's only four blocks) I figured the best move was to do nothing. Business mode. Let her set the tone. I did and we exchanged "Good mornings" that was it...far different and much colder than our previous interactions. Yep, it was gonna be a long day.

She probably feels awkward for having a crying meltdown and then for hugging you too close. She knows that you know her feelings are tied up in this and there's a risk that she'll find a reason to turn the tables on you to save face - because if somebody has to come out of this looking like the clingy, unstable nutcase, she ain't gonna let it be her. I would suggest that you keep it cold.

Quote:Quote:

After I had been at work for a bit, my dining room manager wants to talk, so we go out back and he brings this whole sorry scenario up. I told him what happened, plainly and factually as I could. Being a relatively red-pill guy (crimson, I would say), he understood it was merely a joke and said that he was only bringing it to my attention, because he had to. The gal in question, plus another one, had complained to him.

Oh nice, now it's officially two complaints about the same matter and you put on notice by another manager. That'll look good in court.

Quote:Quote:

He suggested that the three of us sit down and hash it out. He is such a smooth talker, I have little doubt, he can squelch this in about 30 seconds.

I hope you're right. Just be cool and professional with her. Don't get any ideas about being the incestuous father figure she never had ever again.

...and if you do, as noted above, make sure you fuck her up the ass raw so you can take that thought with you on the way down.

Employer/Employee, advice please - Off The Reservation - 07-31-2017

Quote: (07-31-2017 07:42 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

All the advice has been given, I just have one question:

Why the hell do you have girls working in your brewhouse???

I was a bartender so of course I know how having female staff at a bar is good for appearances. However: The owner is redpill and cool, you are on RVF, and the dining manager is cool. This seems like a typical man's place, a rough-gentlemen club, if even.

There's no fucking sense in letting women working here and ruining a male place. One way or the other, you end up with bullshit like this.

Even in cucked Paris we have some bars where all staff are 100% cool guys. These bars tend to have the highest quality of drink and service.

That's the gayest thing I've heard yet today.

Employer/Employee, advice please - debeguiled - 07-31-2017

Sounds like you have come to your senses and have lost interest in throwing away your career for some girl.

So, in case you are in a similar situation with a girl who doesn't work for you, remember that teasing doesn't really work on low self esteem girl, they take it to heart.

And, the subject of weight turns almost any woman into a low self esteem girl.