The problem of clubs - Printable Version
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The problem of clubs - Handsome Creepy Eel - 09-03-2011
I've recently visited a club with a friend, one of the places that I usually avoid as I prefer daygame and less stressful surroundings. Now, I don't know if this is a problem of my town and country or general, but all the clubs here are extremely loud venues, playing techno/trance to such volume that it's impossible to say even one word, with a lot of "lightshow" and very packed. Anyways, maybe it's relaxing to sway in the blinding/deafening/crushing crowd for an hour, but I felt that it was a very poor method for meeting girls. And the problem is, it's everyone's idea of "a night out".
Sure, I saw some people making out, but they were definitely couples or knew each other from outside. My impression is that, in those surroundings (impossible to talk or even dance), a girl is forced to judge you just on the first impression of your looks, and if judged just on that basis, I (and 90% of guys) will simply never see any success.
Maybe this is fatalism, but I feel that I would have vastly superior chances if I just went to the club entrance and said "hi" to 10 girls passing by than sweating in there for hours. In fact, that would be my idea of a good time and pickup - go to a club with friends, but not actually inside unless it's "civilized" and possible to talk.
How do you guys feel about this? Any luck in such conditions? Will not going to clubs gut most of my opportunities?
The problem of clubs - Aliblahba - 09-03-2011
I hate loud music, overly-crowded places, and most of all club dancing. I would almost put a dick in my mouth than be caught out on a dance floor. There are much better places to pull ass. I also can't stand the way most guys act in clubs. It wears on last reserve nerve. If you must go hang out in the smoke area where you can at least converse with females. Club game has been dead to me for over a decade.
The problem of clubs - gringochileno - 09-03-2011
My talking game is a lot more solid than my dance-floor game even though I'm a decent dancer. I don't mind clubs as long as they have a bar or outside area where it's possible to talk without having to yell. A lot of the time I chat up girls at the bar or the patio for like 15 minutes before taking them to dance. It's a good way to start escalating while simultaneously getting them used to being led around by you and potentially isolating them from cockblocking friends.
I also think it helps move things along faster because moving to multiple locations within the club makes them feel like they've known you longer than you have. It's the same time-dilation effect as changing venues on a date, except you don't have to leave the building. If you talk to a girl for 15 minutes, dance for 15 minutes, and then go get water, isolate on a couch and go for a makeout, it's more likely to succeed than if you only talked or danced for the same amount of time and stayed in the same spot.
Don't get me wrong, neighborhood bars are my go-to spots for night game, but even if clubs don't play to your strengths you can still make them work in your favor. It's a pretty necessary skill to have in places like South America that don't share the US's stand-up/mingling bar culture.
The problem of clubs - Aliblahba - 09-03-2011
Quote: (09-03-2011 02:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
It's a pretty necessary skill to have in places like South America that don't share the US's stand-up/mingling bar culture.
Shit. That's not good news for me.
![[Image: confused.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/confused.gif)
The problem of clubs - Amour Fou - 09-03-2011
I completely agree with you!
My strength is also my verbal game, and that strength is downplayed on a loud environment. And when I do go for girls on the dancefloor, I'm usually reopening them from when I ran into them elsewhere...
When I go to loud venues, there are usually a few places that seem a bit better to run game, or at least open some women and reopen them on the dancefloor.
-I usually stick a while next to the bar, where usually is a bit less noisy.
-Even though I hate smoke, I plunge into the smoking area and chat the girls over there... do this all the time.
-I hang out next or close to the girls' toilet, and open them before they go to the dancefloor, or at least get some minimal eye contact.
Cold approach without my verbal arsenal on the dancefoor is quite a hard task, but even then I fell I already improved a lot...
And yeah, the hard (-for some-) way round it is to follow what Samseau broke down in his excelent guide for dancefloor game... and actually learn how to open and engage girls with minimal verbal action.
But I also find it important to know how to take advantages of your strengths, and venue selection goes a long way to support that.
The problem of clubs - Amour Fou - 09-03-2011
Quote: (09-03-2011 03:07 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:
Quote: (09-03-2011 02:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
It's a pretty necessary skill to have in places like South America that don't share the US's stand-up/mingling bar culture.
Shit. That's not good news for me.
Yup... you have to know the spots where you'll have a more reserved place to run talking game.
In Rio, at least, many of the 'bars' are places where people go to sit and drink, not walk and mingle. I'd never go to an 'average' bar in my town to pull women, only to socialize with friends.
http://www.google.com.br/imgres?q=bar+de...25&bih=751
The problem of clubs - gringochileno - 09-03-2011
Quote: (09-03-2011 03:20 PM)Amour Fou Wrote:
Quote: (09-03-2011 03:07 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:
Quote: (09-03-2011 02:55 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
It's a pretty necessary skill to have in places like South America that don't share the US's stand-up/mingling bar culture.
Shit. That's not good news for me.
Yup... you have to know the spots where you'll have a more reserved place to run talking game.
In Rio, at least, many of the 'bars' are places where people go to sit and drink, not walk and mingle. I'd never go to an 'average' bar in my town to pull women, only to socialize with friends.
http://www.google.com.br/imgres?q=bar+de...25&bih=751
Haha very true. Only after I got to Rio did I realize why Roosh went to Gringo- and prostitute-infested places like Emporio to pick up. It's your only option if you don't want to go to a loud club.
The problem of clubs - silent_scope - 09-04-2011
Quote: (09-03-2011 02:26 PM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:
My impression is that, in those surroundings (impossible to talk or even dance), a girl is forced to judge you just on the first impression of your looks, and if judged just on that basis, I (and 90% of guys) will simply never see any success.
Sux to be me then...
I gotta find some non clubby type lounges/bars to hang out in.
Or day game.
The problem of clubs - Dash Global - 09-04-2011
Non verbal game?
Maybe bouncing a female outside for a smoke?
The problem of clubs - Handsome Creepy Eel - 09-04-2011
I am wondering how I would do that, Dash. Raise a finger to the mouth and imitate smoking? It still runs into the problem that she is forced to judge whether to go smoke with me on just my looks and nothing else. I might try that though, it's low-key, and at least in crowded clubs no one will ever remember you if you screw up
![[Image: biggrin.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
How do you do it? I am literally talking about an environment where no words can be heard. But I will try to find something with a quieter bar/outside area, there have to be some around.Amour Fou linked a difficult bar, but still.... in such a closed bar where everyone is sitting in small groups, (at least in a foreign city), I would have less qualms about approaching.
I wonder, when Roosh says that he went to a club, does he mean a place like I described or something more chill?
The problem of clubs - Dash Global - 09-04-2011
What id recommend is to go to the dance floor.
Find a cute girl giving you IOI's. eye contact with a smile is most common.
Dance with her for a bit.
Then suggest grabbing a drink and / or going for a smoke. Normally I can always speak directly into a girls ear even with loud music but if not hand gestures work fine too
The problem of clubs - Amour Fou - 09-04-2011
Quote: (09-04-2011 05:40 AM)Dash Global Wrote:
Find a cute girl giving you IOI's. eye contact with a smile is most common.
I consider myself to be an attractive guy. Still, even when I go to the dancefloor, I don't seem to have girls 'giving me IOIs'. Granted, I usually don't wait for IOIs. But you see, girls that go dancing are usually somewhat crazed because of the music+alcohol mix, and might never give IOIs.
You shouldn't have to wait for IOIs to approach. You might wait a lifetime or so. I have this night only.
I completely identify with Handsome Creepy Eel.
I think a good tactic is to go to the dancefloor armed with quick and effective one-liners that you can hit women with. Short sentences that can be said while the music is on.
I remember teasing women with quick one-liners complaining that they stepped on me while dancing or something.
Even then, it is much harder than gaming women on quieter spots, and I think it requires much more confidence and physical presence, things to work on.
Work on = exposing yourself to these situations.
I also don't find this easy at all, but I had success with these scenarios already. You adapt or pussy-starve, and life goes on.
I am finding this thread very productive...
The problem of clubs - Amour Fou - 09-04-2011
Quote: (09-04-2011 05:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:
I wonder, when Roosh says that he went to a club, does he mean a place like I described or something more chill?
There are places that are somewhere in between. These are the usual spots that I go to when back home.
On such scenarios, the dancefloor and its loudness can be quite helpful. You open a girl elsewhere and drag her to the dancefloor for the close.
Classic, classic move.
The problem of clubs - Vicious - 09-05-2011
From a combination of G Manifesto and Roosh tactics. People I met in Vegas just from posting at a restaurant bar, not moving and letting others approach:
-A Maxim model.
-The MILF agent of several major A-grade hard rock and old school hip hop groups (can't give out the names in public).
-A really cool, attractive married couple that I just ended up hanging out with.
-A hot blonde that told me she'd fuck me after 20 min if it wasn't for the fact that she was getting married in two weeks (and i could have worked on that if her cockblocking friends weren't hovering over her).
-Another smashing MILF whose family had close connections to Steve Wynn (lost her number! - still kicking myself for that)
Why would I ever want to go to a night club again (if there was a choice)?
The problem of clubs - Samseau - 09-05-2011
Quote:Quote:
How do you guys feel about this? Any luck in such conditions? Will not going to clubs gut most of my opportunities?
I'm pretty sure all of your questions are answered in my guide. I would recommend finding clubs that play good music and emphasize dancing, and for you to go for the kiss before ever talking to a girl, and bouncing her to a quieter spot (aka outside the club for a smoke or "to cool off").
Quote:Quote:
From a combination of G Manifesto and Roosh tactics. People I met in Vegas just from posting at a restaurant bar, not moving and letting others approach:
-A Maxim model.
-The MILF agent of several major A-grade hard rock and old school hip hop groups (can't give out the names in public).
-A really cool, attractive married couple that I just ended up hanging out with.
-A hot blonde that told me she'd fuck me after 20 min if it wasn't for the fact that she was getting married in two weeks (and i could have worked on that if her cockblocking friends weren't hovering over her).
-Another smashing MILF whose family had close connections to Steve Wynn (lost her number! - still kicking myself for that)
Why would I ever want to go to a night club again (if there was a choice)?
Vicious, have you been in any Vegas nightclubs enough to know what kind of women frequent them?
The problem of clubs - Vicious - 09-05-2011
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:
I'm pretty sure all of your questions are answered in my guide. I would recommend finding clubs that emphasize dancing, go for the kiss before ever talking to a girl, and bouncing her to a quieter spot (aka outside the club for a smoke or "to cool off").
Are you referring to your dance floor game or is there something else you got tucked away?
The problem of clubs - Samseau - 09-05-2011
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:42 PM)Vicious Wrote:
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:
I'm pretty sure all of your questions are answered in my guide. I would recommend finding clubs that emphasize dancing, go for the kiss before ever talking to a girl, and bouncing her to a quieter spot (aka outside the club for a smoke or "to cool off").
Are you referring to your dance floor game
yes
The problem of clubs - Vicious - 09-05-2011
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Vicious, have you been in any Vegas nightclubs enough to know what kind of women frequent them?
Yes.
The operative word here is, I. As in Why would I ever want to go to a night club again. If you are a great dancer on the other hand (I'm not) then of course you should leverage the hell out of that.
The problem of clubs - Handsome Creepy Eel - 09-06-2011
Quote: (09-05-2011 05:17 PM)Vicious Wrote:
Quote: (09-05-2011 04:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:
Vicious, have you been in any Vegas nightclubs enough to know what kind of women frequent them?
Yes.
The operative word here is, I. As in Why would I ever want to go to a night club again. If you are a great dancer on the other hand (I'm not) then of course you should leverage the hell out of that.
After another fun but totally unproductive night at a club, I think I need to re-read Samseau's guide and try to salvage before giving up. This time it was a workday night, so enough space to dance, and true enough, a couple of girls soon got into a circle around me. But the 'no words' sound barrier is still fucking me up whenever I try to progress from just dancing into any kind of escalation, and I haven't had any successes with transferring to outside the club or a (relatively) quieter terrace.
Hmmmm....
The problem of clubs - gringochileno - 09-06-2011
I think you need to be one of the absolute best dancers in the club to pull a girl for the ONS without using any verbal game at all. Even in South American clubs where I'm the only Gringo there and can heavily leverage that fact, I find that once I get the makeout I still need to isolate the girl somewhere quieter and do some macking in Spanish if I'm gonna have any chance of taking her home.
HCE, have you tried saying "I'm thirsty, let's get some water" and seeing if she follows you? If she's been dancing with you and enjoying herself for more than a couple songs I've found that they usually will.
The problem of clubs - Handsome Creepy Eel - 09-07-2011
I think I did, but I'm not sure if she heard it! I doubt that my voice could be to blame (it's average, not weak but certainly not booming) and I find that anything short of leaning in and shouting directly into her ear doesn't work. Plus I wouldn't be able to hear her response. It's that loud.
Maybe I am facing the same problem as with palm reading - entertainment, and rapidly losing interest as I try to transfer out of the role she is viewing me in (great dancer or whatever). You know, if we are dancing, maybe I should just try to "drag" her outside without any words and see what happens. Or learn sign language, lol.
Well anyways, I will keep experimenting... keep you posted if improvement happens.
The problem of clubs - K-man - 09-07-2011
I don't think any of us guys here enjoys the club-going experience for the loud music, the cool DJ, the laser lights show, or the pricey bottle service. We just go there for the girls.
And, as much as I don't like clubs myself, girls seem to love them and they can be found there. So that's where I go. It's as simple as that.
If in your city/country girls like to go to "neighborhood bars" - then definitely go hunt for them there. Unfortunately in mine the hotties don't seem to enjoy the neighborhood dive bars as much.
Day game is probably better because all girls, hot and ugly alike, have to go around during the day running their errands. But I don't collect phone numbers and go on dates, so for me that's not an option.
Now, what can be done to be more effective in a club environment... I think my number one limitation over the years has also been my voice - while not pussy-sounding and soft, it is definitely not loud enough to be well heard in clubs. I used to have a friend who got laid a lot in clubs without better game than mine, but he had a very loud, alpha-sounding voice that everyone could hear... while I've had to simply give up many times despite obvious IOI's just because I could not carry the conversation further. After a couple of "What?"s and "What did you say?"s you simply give up.
So with that in mind, what can one do? The obvious is - avoid the dance floor, hang out near the bar, near the ladies' room, or leaned against a column in the back end where it's quieter... Use simple openers... And escalate quickly - if she's giving you 10 minutes of talking, you should move in closer, make her feel your body, your breath, your smell - if she likes, move in for the kiss and try to bounce her to a quieter place.
The problem of clubs - Samseau - 09-07-2011
Quote: (09-06-2011 10:07 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
I think you need to be one of the absolute best dancers in the club to pull a girl for the ONS without using any verbal game at all. Even in South American clubs where I'm the only Gringo there and can heavily leverage that fact, I find that once I get the makeout I still need to isolate the girl somewhere quieter and do some macking in Spanish if I'm gonna have any chance of taking her home.
Hilariously enough, I once pulled a Mexican visiting a Boston Dance Bar, who spoke next to no English. She traveled with friends and they helped me translate. But most of the time, the communication was basic as talking to a two-year old.
The problem of clubs - gringochileno - 09-07-2011
Quote: (09-07-2011 10:54 AM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (09-06-2011 10:07 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
I think you need to be one of the absolute best dancers in the club to pull a girl for the ONS without using any verbal game at all. Even in South American clubs where I'm the only Gringo there and can heavily leverage that fact, I find that once I get the makeout I still need to isolate the girl somewhere quieter and do some macking in Spanish if I'm gonna have any chance of taking her home.
Hilariously enough, I once pulled a Mexican visiting a Boston Dance Bar, who spoke next to no English. She traveled with friends and they helped me translate. But most of the time, the communication was basic as talking to a two-year old.
See that's you, you're an exceptional dancer, you're able to translate that strength directly into notches, and you're smart for playing to it. My dancing skills are more on the level of "good enough to escalate with a chick who's already interested and not screw up the bang progression by embarrassing myself." Those of us who are mere mortals at dancing need strategies to create opportunities for communication in environments like clubs that aren't conducive to it. It's just not gonna happen if I dance for 15 minutes, make out, and say "let's get out of here" when we've exchanged maybe 20 words total.
The problem of clubs - Samseau - 09-07-2011
Quote: (09-07-2011 11:48 AM)gringochileno Wrote:
Quote: (09-07-2011 10:54 AM)Samseau Wrote:
Quote: (09-06-2011 10:07 PM)gringochileno Wrote:
I think you need to be one of the absolute best dancers in the club to pull a girl for the ONS without using any verbal game at all. Even in South American clubs where I'm the only Gringo there and can heavily leverage that fact, I find that once I get the makeout I still need to isolate the girl somewhere quieter and do some macking in Spanish if I'm gonna have any chance of taking her home.
Hilariously enough, I once pulled a Mexican visiting a Boston Dance Bar, who spoke next to no English. She traveled with friends and they helped me translate. But most of the time, the communication was basic as talking to a two-year old.
See that's you, you're an exceptional dancer, you're able to translate that strength directly into notches, and you're smart for playing to it. My dancing skills are more on the level of "good enough to escalate with a chick who's already interested and not screw up the bang progression by embarrassing myself." Those of us who are mere mortals at dancing need strategies to create opportunities for communication in environments like clubs that aren't conducive to it. It's just not gonna happen if I dance for 15 minutes, make out, and say "let's get out of here" when we've exchanged maybe 20 words total.
I did this last September, back when I didn't how to break dance and my partner dancing was quite limited. I just had started swing lessons. I didn't think to myself, "I'm a shitty dancer no girl will like dancing with me." Instead, I thought, "Dancing is fun! I want to find a girl who likes to dance with me."
Don't be so hard on yourself. Anyone can be a good dancer, the trick is to find a girl who responds well to your lead. If she feels your vibe, you'll be pulling off moves you didn't even know you knew.
When dancing, don't worry about embarrassing yourself. Don't worry about if the girl is having a good time or not. Worry about if you are enjoying yourself, and focus on moving to the music. Find a girl who vibes to you, and the rest is almost automatic. You just need to do the steps I've outlined in my guide after you've got a good dance going (kiss, isolate, comfort build).
I know you guys complain about how hard it is to talk inside of a club, so DON'T FUCKING TALK IN THERE! GET HER OUTSIDE! Once it's just you and her outside, you can run normal game and it's way more effective! Pulling a girl outside of the club increases your odds of taking her home by a significant margin! 50% of the girls I've pulled outside of the bar I've been able to get back into their place afterwards. It's not a coincidence. Once she's walked outside of a club with you (make sure you're holding always holding her hand as you do this) she will trust you so much more.
Also, once you pull her outside, it doesn't mean you need to automatically get her back to her place right there and then. Instead, you'll want to keep spending more time with her. Go back inside for another dance. Or get a drink with her inside the club or at another bar. Figure out how to handle her friends. Try cuddling with her on the club's couches after dancing with her some more. Just keep having fun after you move her outside and you'll be fucking golden when it comes to getting back inside of her place.