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Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-07-2016

Hey guys,
Just had several job opportunities in SF, Berlin, Barcelona.
Salaries are quite high for their countries respectively (except maybe SF where it's market rate, ~120k), all companies are working on very interesting projects that would push my career forward.
I'm a 30 single guy. SF is very interesting professionally but I've been there and I find the vibe a bit weird, plus I'd be considered low middle class even with a 6-figure salary and it's far from my European culture (I don't plan to settle down anytime soon, but if the opportunity happens, I don't see myself living in the Bay Area for a long time, or the US for that matter).
Barcelona looks like I'd be having a very nice life, although I wouldn't be saving as much as in SF obviously.
Berlin seems nice as well, but I haven't been there recenlty so it's hard to say.

I'd appreciate any advice from you guys!

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Buddydowrongright2 - 12-07-2016

I grew up in the SF Bay Area and will wholeheartedly tell you that you could not pay me to live in San Francisco simply due to the cost of living and the nightmare ratio of single men to women. Not sure if it's still this bad but at one point t was 2 to 1. Go to any bar in the city and you will see the classic symptoms: scores of dudes surrounding the one cute girl in the group all trying to compete for her attention. Nightlife can be fun with a big group of your guy friends, and it's not impossible to game there... I had an acquaintance who had a studio apartment right on Polk Street a few steps from the bars and he did well. But his place was rent controlled and he was paying 1500.... years ago... just saying

That's not even to mention it is the most liberal city on Earth with the highest population of gender freaks and even the few pretty women who are there are masculine ball-busters who think shaming men should be a sport. The one exception would be foreign chicks which thankfully have a decent presence there, mostly FOB asians and Russian chicks.

For the record I also lived in Germany and thought it was dope. Can't speculate about Barcelona as I have only visited, but there were a lot of tourists.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - PragueDude - 12-07-2016

What is European culture?

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - joost - 12-07-2016

If the salary will be similar, you'll get a better bang (no pun intended) for the buck in Europe.

Between Barcelona and Berlin, it is a matter of taste. I have my personal opinion but I think you should read Data Sheets posts about those cities and see which one fit your needs. The language, the culture, people, girls, weather...

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-07-2016

Quote: (12-07-2016 12:13 PM)Buddydowrongright2 Wrote:  

I grew up in the SF Bay Area and will wholeheartedly tell you that you could not pay me to live in San Francisco simply due to the cost of living and the nightmare ratio of single men to women. Not sure if it's still this bad but at one point t was 2 to 1. Go to any bar in the city and you will see the classic symptoms: scores of dudes surrounding the one cute girl in the group all trying to compete for her attention. Nightlife can be fun with a big group of your guy friends, and it's not impossible to game there... I had an acquaintance who had a studio apartment right on Polk Street a few steps from the bars and he did well. But his place was rent controlled and he was paying 1500.... years ago... just saying

That's not even to mention it is the most liberal city on Earth with the highest population of gender freaks and even the few pretty women who are there are masculine ball-busters who think shaming men should be a sport. The one exception would be foreign chicks which thankfully have a decent presence there, mostly FOB asians and Russian chicks.

For the record I also lived in Germany and thought it was dope. Can't speculate about Barcelona as I have only visited, but there were a lot of tourists.

That confirms some of the feelings I had while there. The guy/girl scenarios you described sound like nightmares. Also, I'm under the impression everyone is trying hard to clim the social ladder, more than in Barcelona/Berlin for sure. I think the only way to truely enjoy SF is to have a significant chunk of equity in a successful tech company and become rich, then again you have to pick the right horse.

PragueDude> Hard to define, and I guess I meant more of the latin European culture which I feel attached to. I spent enough time in the US to know the culture is more different than it first seems.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - kirdiesel - 12-08-2016

Platon you really need to post what kind of person you are and girls you want. Then someone who has lived or gamed extensively in these places can better explain to you what its like and give you recommendations.

For example, Berlin is unlike the rest of Germany and very hipster and alternative. I have only been there for a weekend and guys said they have had fun but they didn't care for the quality level of girls unless you are into what... "hipsters". But yet again that might be your thing.

Ogunn has a Berlin Datasheet as well as some other guys here.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-08-2016

When it comes to girls, I'm definitely more into feminine, dolled up girls than hipsters/alternative or even "country" girls (whatever that really means).
I have the feeling when it comes to girls, Barcelona would be #1. But then again Berlin is a very big and international city so I'm sure I could find my happiness there as well.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - kirdiesel - 12-08-2016

Quote: (12-08-2016 03:28 AM)Platon_ Wrote:  

When it comes to girls, I'm definitely more into feminine, dolled up girls than hipsters/alternative or even "country" girls (whatever that really means).

Def go to Barcelona over Berlin.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - 262 - 12-08-2016

Haven't been to Barco myself, but can confirm that Berlin is hipster.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-08-2016

Any one had experience with long term living, more than just vacations trips in those places? I'm interested about the lifestyle that these cities tend to provide.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Ice - 12-08-2016

Quote: (12-08-2016 08:09 AM)Platon_ Wrote:  

Any one had experience with long term living, more than just vacations trips in those places? I'm interested about the lifestyle that these cities tend to provide.

I lived in Berlin for 3 years, I might actually move back there soon.

Berlin is pretty diverse - it's a quite big, widespread city. It really depends what kind of scene you're looking for.

Berlin is most famous for the "alternative" scene. That in itself is a pretty broad category, but one thing you have to be aware of is that there's a pretty large group of people who are not very ambitious and who I would just call "losers". Not everyone of course, and it depends where you hang out, but I think it's noticeable, more so than in other cities. Berlin just attracts a certain type of person - on one hand the alternative, anti-capitalist type of person, and on the other the tech/startup guys. There are certain areas like Neukölln that are very alternative and where there are a lot of immigrants - whenever I walked around there I could really feel like the average IQ level in that area is way below the national average.

But you'll definitely find people who have their shit together and who are smart & successful. There's a huge influx of new startups, digital agencies, innovation strategy firms etc. As I said, you just really have to find your scene.

A big bonus is the nightlife - the amount of clubs & bars is just crazy. There's parties happening every night of the week. This also has a downside tho: I know of quite many people who went to Berlin with big plans for what they wanted to achieve professionally or in terms of personal projects, and many didn't get shit done because they spent all their time partying.

Also, it's a very liberal city - not sure if that's a positive or negative for you. Theres a huge gay scene - probably the largest of any European city. There's quite a few sex/swinger clubs, the porn film festival is based in Berlin, and most of Germany's most well-known porn production studios are located there too. There's just generally a very open-minded culture & vibe. But that of course also comes with certain downsides.

If you have any specific questions just let me know.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Kendrick - 12-08-2016

I just spent two years in SF. It's horrible. It might be the worst city for game in the US. This is coming from a good looking white guy. 120K won't stretch far, the going rate for a 1BDR in a decent neighborhood is 2.5-3K.

I don't have much experience in Berlin, but aside from the tourists, Barcelona is a beautiful city with great weather, food, and nightlife.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-08-2016

I think SF is great if you have your own company and want to make it big. I'm not sure it makes sense to go there as an employee, maybe if you have a family and everything there.
Quality of life in Barcelona seems quite optimal but I'm wondering if reality is as good as what it seems from outside.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Baffled King - 12-08-2016

If you are primarily concerned with career advancement and/or work in tech, go to SF. There are increasing numbers of attractive girls there, especially if you like Asian girls.

I don't know much about Barcelona or Berlin, but it seems like Spain has a very weak economy and the whole EU is going through lots of problems.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - SanMiguel - 12-09-2016

For me Barca is the easy choice ..

As a city it has everything you'd want - great cafes/restaurants, awesome nightlife, beautiful architecture (Google search 'Gaudi'), very good logistics/transport system, even a beach within walking distance from the centre!

Also the Spanish culture/lifestyle is more relaxed and I think healthier than here in the UK. Girls wise it is probably 7.5/10 - you won't be blown away by talent on the streets as you would in say Budapest, but there are plenty of nice girls there. Also a decent no. of EE/Russians and of course lots of easy tourists from all over. As you can see I'm a big fan - can see myself taking an extended stay there in the future. I've been 3 times, most recently 3 weeks in the Summer to study Spanish. That would be another bonus in my eyes - you'd pick up the most useful second language so much easier while you're there.

As for Berlin, I've only had the displeasure for 3 nights so my opinion might be unfair but I absolutely hated it - too spread out, ugly city in general, girls wise it was terrible, the hipster/alternative vibe is not me at all. Can't comment on SF but it sounds like your gut feeling is not there so I'd listen to that. Good luck!

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - MCMV - 12-09-2016

Definitely Barcelona. Very easy choice.

Foodwise, weather-wise, warm people, less-expensive, music, culture, everything is much better in Spain than Germany, except economy. Given the fact that you'd have stable income, I'd choose Barcelona over any German city any day.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-09-2016

So I understand Barcelona is nice for living as well, it's not a "holliday only" destination. Good to know.
SF's pay with Barcelona's lifestyle would be the best of both world. Anyone freelancing for a US company here and living the dream?

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - rishboy77 - 12-09-2016

Barcelona all the way.

Only draw back it is not so cheap especially in the Summer during the tourist season

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - SanMiguel - 12-09-2016

Quote: (12-09-2016 11:11 AM)Platon_ Wrote:  

So I understand Barcelona is nice for living as well, it's not a "holliday only" destination. Good to know.
SF's pay with Barcelona's lifestyle would be the best of both world. Anyone freelancing for a US company here and living the dream?

What sort of income level would you be looking at? I'm guessing that half your SF pay would go very far in Barca. It's not the cheapest place in Spain or Europe, but is a long long way away from the dearest. Rent is fairly high but after that, general day to day costs would be quite low depending on your lifestyle.

Obviously if you can get something remote with US wages you'd be balling.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-09-2016

Quote: (12-09-2016 11:36 AM)SanMiguel Wrote:  

Quote: (12-09-2016 11:11 AM)Platon_ Wrote:  

So I understand Barcelona is nice for living as well, it's not a "holliday only" destination. Good to know.
SF's pay with Barcelona's lifestyle would be the best of both world. Anyone freelancing for a US company here and living the dream?

What sort of income level would you be looking at? I'm guessing that half your SF pay would go very far in Barca. It's not the cheapest place in Spain or Europe, but is a long long way away from the dearest. Rent is fairly high but after that, general day to day costs would be quite low depending on your lifestyle.

Obviously if you can get something remote with US wages you'd be balling.
Around 45-50kE.
I have some passive income I get from online as well (~300-400e/month).
It's not huge but I'm pretty sure I can have a good life in BCN with that.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - expatinlocombia - 12-09-2016

I've lived in Barcelona. I don't care for Catalan girls and dog-shit smeared sidewalks but it's a beach city with a good vibe and lots of Latinas and the dance bars they bring, if you're into either of those.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Unchained - 12-09-2016

Barcelona IMO. But like another poster said, the answer is gonna be different for different people.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Sonoma - 12-09-2016

You can find relatively cheap rent in SF if you're willing to have roommates. I have friends paying as low as 600-700 in the Richmond, closer to 1400 for Nob Hill

The ratio is terrible, but like some people have said, if you like Asian girls it's not bad. Also consider that a lot of the guys game there is atrocious, though it does attract a reasonable amount of mid 20s-30s people who are well educated, intelligent, and have a social background.

Berlin's weather isn't terribly appealing. I'd do SF or Barcelona (whats the pay difference?)

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Platon_ - 12-10-2016

Quote: (12-09-2016 11:21 PM)Sonoma Wrote:  

You can find relatively cheap rent in SF if you're willing to have roommates. I have friends paying as low as 600-700 in the Richmond, closer to 1400 for Nob Hill

The ratio is terrible, but like some people have said, if you like Asian girls it's not bad. Also consider that a lot of the guys game there is atrocious, though it does attract a reasonable amount of mid 20s-30s people who are well educated, intelligent, and have a social background.

Berlin's weather isn't terribly appealing. I'd do SF or Barcelona (whats the pay difference?)
I guess you're right, but I have a weird gut feeling with SF. I'm getting tired of the startups scene meme and the city has an uncomfortable vibe with me.
Also, the idea of living recluded in a shared flat in a shady neighboorhood in SF to save money isn't so appealing. I'd rather make less, live better, and work on my own stuff in my free time to make more money.

Moving: SF, Barcelona, Berlin? - Mshake510 - 12-10-2016

The amount of pro-sf gay area replies I'm seeing must be from people that don't live out here. The answer is Barcelona.