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Avoiding the nice guy label. - godzilla - 07-13-2016

How do you guys do it?

Anyone have similar experiences?

I feel this is my struggle especially with hotter chicks.

It definitely could be my inner programming from getting this treatment when I was younger.

Usually isn’t a problem for me at night.

But especially when I meet people during the day or online. I’m pretty laid back dude and I can be anywhere between quiet and talkative.

Obviously, hard to tell since I don’t have a convo to show anyone.

Basically, I’ve had some pretty awkward dates haha where something like below happens. The girls are normally on the hotter side but its not like any of them are incredible.

Many dates are also successes, so obviously I’m doing a lot right too. I had by far my best year last year, and this year will come close I think.

Keep in mind these are not precise quotes.

“I just wanted to be your friend.” or a recent example “Don’t try to kiss me”

Me “I’m not trying to be your friend” (This is usually comes with a surprising look from her like its not going as she planned)

“Well im not a slut”

Me “Who said you were a slut?”

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

Btw, this has happened on every continent.

I’m quickly finding out that Euro women waste probably more of my time then American.

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Ezio31 - 07-13-2016

Bits of asshole game should work, if you don't want to be seen as a "Nice Guy". Pull their hair while you're on a date. But above all, keep a smug, entitled smirk on your face [Image: wink.gif]

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Phoenix - 07-13-2016

Quote: (07-13-2016 09:57 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

How do you guys do it?

Anyone have similar experiences?

I feel this is my struggle especially with hotter chicks.

It definitely could be my inner programming from getting this treatment when I was younger.

Usually isn’t a problem for me at night.

But especially when I meet people during the day or online. I’m pretty laid back dude and I can be anywhere between quiet and talkative.

Obviously, hard to tell since I don’t have a convo to show anyone.

Basically, I’ve had some pretty awkward dates haha where something like below happens. The girls are normally on the hotter side but its not like any of them are incredible.

Many dates are also successes, so obviously I’m doing a lot right too. I had by far my best year last year, and this year will come close I think.

Keep in mind these are not precise quotes.

“I just wanted to be your friend.” or a recent example “Don’t try to kiss me”

Me “I’m not trying to be your friend” (This is usually comes with a surprising look from her like its not going as she planned)

“Well im not a slut”

Me “Who said you were a slut?”

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

Btw, this has happened on every continent.

I’m quickly finding out that Euro women waste probably more of my time then American.

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

Better not to respond at all to those (with words). "Don't try to kiss me" is pretty aggressive though, if a girl said that to me I'd probably respond with "Don't forget your stuff on the way out -- there's the door". The only valid response to contempt is contempt -- anything else and you're in submissive territory, which means a long drawn-out waste of time, rather than a rapid-ending waste of time.

Make sure you're treating the hot ones the same as the other ones. Just reference it back -- is there anything I'm thinking or trying with this one that's different to normal girls? Those can be tells to the girl that "I'm not at your rank". Otherwise, if all is the same, contempt from hotter girls just means you're not hot enough yourself. Hard self-improvement work is the only possible help with that.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Dalaran1991 - 07-13-2016

Quote: (07-13-2016 09:57 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

How do you guys do it?

Anyone have similar experiences?

I feel this is my struggle especially with hotter chicks.


“I just wanted to be your friend.” or a recent example “Don’t try to kiss me”

Me “I’m not trying to be your friend” (This is usually comes with a surprising look from her like its not going as she planned)

“Well im not a slut”

Me “Who said you were a slut?”

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

Btw, this has happened on every continent.

I’m quickly finding out that Euro women waste probably more of my time then American.

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

I think you have the wrong mindset.

You are explaining yourself to girls, justifying things.

Thats what make most people "nice". An alpha guy can do nice things and would never get that "nice" label. When girls talk about an alpha guys who do nice things, they use the word "hot".

In your example, why do you need to respond to those shit test that girls give you? And if you do respond, do it correctly, not explaining things to girls.

Most guys I respect, they never explain or justify anything they do, whether good or bad, and they have done plenty of good.

Regarding general vibe, you might just be a chill guy. In that case dress more R-selected, and dont smile a lot. Smirk more often.

Nah fuck this, waiting for WIA to answer [Image: lol.gif]

Avoiding the nice guy label. - godzilla - 07-13-2016

Quote: (07-13-2016 10:18 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Quote: (07-13-2016 09:57 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

How do you guys do it?

Anyone have similar experiences?

I feel this is my struggle especially with hotter chicks.


“I just wanted to be your friend.” or a recent example “Don’t try to kiss me”

Me “I’m not trying to be your friend” (This is usually comes with a surprising look from her like its not going as she planned)

“Well im not a slut”

Me “Who said you were a slut?”

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

Btw, this has happened on every continent.

I’m quickly finding out that Euro women waste probably more of my time then American.

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

I think you have the wrong mindset.

You are explaining yourself to girls, justifying things.

Thats what make most people "nice". An alpha guy can do nice things and would never get that "nice" label. When girls talk about an alpha guys who do nice things, they use the word "hot".

In your example, why do you need to respond to those shit test that girls give you? And if you do respond, do it correctly, not explaining things to girls.

Most guys I respect, they never explain or justify anything they do, whether good or bad, and they have done plenty of good.

Regarding general vibe, you might just be a chill guy. In that case dress more R-selected, and dont smile a lot. Smirk more often.

Nah fuck this, waiting for WIA to answer [Image: lol.gif]

Im not sure what I am justifying, you'll have to explain that, though I do smile like a nice guy [Image: smile.gif]

Avoiding the nice guy label. - NickDunne - 07-13-2016

My breakthrough moment happened when I decided that the date I had that day would end only in 1 of these 2 ways:

1) I get the bang or at least we make out.
2) I get a slap on my face and get called a motherfucker.

So, my advice is just push-push-push. From your question I sense you've got enough female friends already and you definitely do not need more. So either she gets offended and hates your guts or you bang. And I guarantee you that the former will happen much more often than you now think once you get into the above mindset.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Rhyme or Reason - 07-13-2016

I wrote about this in response to a newbie awhile back.

thread-54512...pid1255350

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Don's D - 07-13-2016

Sounds like they are just shit testing you and you failing to recognize such shit test.

“I just wanted to be your friend.” - my response "yea best friends for ever" with a smile and eye contact while caressing her arm or thigh

"Well I'm not a slut" -my response "great, my mother is gonna love you" again with a shit eating grin and and kino

If you are thinking you are being too nice, just start touching and teasing them. Then it won't matter what you say because your actions will confuse her.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - El_gato - 07-13-2016

I tend to launch a pre-emptive strike by refering to them as a friend in a playfulway. Most girls have never heard a dialogue that has inferred that they are in the "friend zone" . Their subconscious reacts when they hear somthing to that effect. It also seperates you from all the other thirsty dudes that are trying to get in her pants. Some examples:
1. She says ..: "i might have a glass of red wine". You respond .." You shouldn't - friends don't let friends have red wine with calamari"
2. She does something for you ... You smile and say "ahh what a good friend"
Be playful and fun - if too serios it could backfire...and put you in friend zone

Finally you have to get some kino going. If she is doing it - go in for a kiss on that encounter

Avoiding the nice guy label. - godzilla - 07-13-2016

Thanks for the advice..im leaning towards Phoenic's thoughts on this.

@dond ...I will go with for line next time

Avoiding the nice guy label. - toejam - 07-14-2016

@Red_Pillage
That's some funny sh1t but golden

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Bogart - 07-20-2016

Quote: (07-13-2016 09:57 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

How do you guys do it?

Anyone have similar experiences?

I feel this is my struggle especially with hotter chicks.

It definitely could be my inner programming from getting this treatment when I was younger.

Usually isn’t a problem for me at night.

But especially when I meet people during the day or online. I’m pretty laid back dude and I can be anywhere between quiet and talkative.

Obviously, hard to tell since I don’t have a convo to show anyone.

Basically, I’ve had some pretty awkward dates haha where something like below happens. The girls are normally on the hotter side but its not like any of them are incredible.

Many dates are also successes, so obviously I’m doing a lot right too. I had by far my best year last year, and this year will come close I think.

Keep in mind these are not precise quotes.

“I just wanted to be your friend.” or a recent example “Don’t try to kiss me”

Me “I’m not trying to be your friend” (This is usually comes with a surprising look from her like its not going as she planned)

“Well im not a slut”

Me “Who said you were a slut?”

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

Btw, this has happened on every continent.

I’m quickly finding out that Euro women waste probably more of my time then American.

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

I avoid the friend zone like the plague - the only women worth conversing in my life who aren't dating mates or related to me I make a point of bedding or letting them know that i'm not a sexless orbiter. Always be comfortable making the odd gross/sexual remark to throw them off guard, they never write you off that way when you keep this up and you'll never waste time by lying about who you are and what you want. If you are already in the friendzone/seen as a nice guy or heading there, there are about 3 options which have already been canvassed:

1) Re-Orient Frame: for the smarter girls a response to a "we're just friends" is the Harry met Sally line: "I don't believe straight men and women can be friends....." they might respond "But I have lots of male friends!" then you simply and cooly dissect any examples she gives you to show that either she, or they want to bang eachother. By pointing out you see this and the others don't immediate DHV, gets the hamster spinning and keeps your frame b/c you won't acknowledge her label/zoning.

2) Ignore Her and Make Her Jealous: This is harder to pull of but can work in social situations. If you're striking out with one girl, retract your lavish attention from her a dole it out on another candidate. Nothing gets a girls attention and hamster spinning like competition and we've all probably heard or seen the head bitch get pissed off when a former beta orbiter gets swung into another girls column. This will cause social fallout if done right so beware!!

3) The Vanishing Act: retreat and take the loss - live to fight another day. You can always try to re-start on your terms and impose your sexual frame on them. This will work if you've over invested and can't seem to find a way out and does wonders for your internal game.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Brick - 07-20-2016

If "nice" starts getting thrown around, I go with "I'm not nice. I'm kind." Usually they ask what the difference is... "Nice guys avoid confrontation....I go after things I want" Then take a sip of her drink with a smile.

If she says "that wasn't very kind!" I usually follow with "that sip was poison. I saved you." Then start to clearly eye up something else you might take...especially if she has food in front of her. Should get a giggle and you now have a game to play for the rest of the night as you save her from poison sips every once in awhile....let her save you a couple times. Look at fruits in drinks with suspicion. "What the hell is that?" I use that when they have cherries in their drink because I love those fucking things.

Or it all goes down in flames...but at least you got a free sip of alcohol (or more if she throws it in your face! Open wide!) and didn't waste more time

But that's generally how my world reknowned, highly-respected-in-these-parts ass avoids the nice guy label

Also eagerly waiting for WIA's post.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - DimeBait - 07-20-2016

Didn't read the whole thread, but just wanted to add there is nothing wrong with being a nice guy. To quote the great TM, just know all you have in this world are your balls and your word and don't break em' for nobody! Which essentially means you should adopt a set of principals (such as not being taken advantage of) and strictly adhere to them.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Dantes - 07-20-2016

I am unsure about the context but if this is occurring during a date something is off. You aren't building enough attraction. The nonverbal is just as important as the conversation.

Those responses indicate that it is game over and you should move on immediately.

Practice strong eye contact with your body slightly facing away...also learn to smirk if it doesn't come naturally to you.

Most guys have difficulty in this regard with hotter girls. It is simple, you aren't use to being in the game with 8 plus girls. The psychological default is to raise her value while trying to show her your are a normal, harmless, and nice guy. It is a "don't rock the boat mentality". Girls sense this a mile away, when we are cautious and unsure about our own capacity to attract her.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Only One Man - 07-21-2016

Quote: (07-20-2016 03:12 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

I am unsure about the context but if this is occurring during a date something is off. You aren't building enough attraction. The nonverbal is just as important as the conversation.

Those responses indicate that it is game over and you should move on immediately.

Practice strong eye contact with your body slightly facing away...also learn to smirk if it doesn't come naturally to you.

Most guys have difficulty in this regard with hotter girls. It is simple, you aren't use to being in the game with 8 plus girls. The psychological default is to raise her value while trying to show her your are a normal, harmless, and nice guy. It is a "don't rock the boat mentality". Girls sense this a mile away, when we are cautious and unsure about our own capacity to attract her.

^^^This exactly. Bill Burr puts it in a great way:

"Work on yourself. Hit the gym and get in shape. Talk shit to women who are out of your league."

You need to make these interactions about YOUR entertainment and enjoyment, not appeasing the girl and essentially trying too hard to convince her you're not creepy. Most guys do this shit with hotter girls until they have a lot of experience talking to, dating and banging 7.5s and up. Playful teasing is always the way to go, along with strong nonverbal and body language. Really the only way to get there is to talk to lots of hot girls and not give a shit about the outcome.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - godzilla - 07-21-2016

@dantes or anyone else

Would you say escalating quickly before building rapport/attraction would cause this type of réaction?

Avoiding the nice guy label. - greekgod - 07-21-2016

I read this as such......

You're coming up short or not confident in your Man to Woman communication. (Body language, tone, cadence, attitude, vibe, etc)

The words are there but "feeling" is just a little off. You aren't "playing to not lose" but you might not be "playing to win either"

In other words, your intellectual game is correct. Your application might need tweaking.

When new territory is conquered, pioneers explore. Once the exploring is done, the political management class takes over (your approach right now).

Be more mentally exploratory and body language barbaric because until you conquer that pussy, you are still at the gates. But the bring down the gates, you have seduce her mind's (hindbrain and the conscious one) perception of you. Words alone will never do that.

Another way of saying all this is some guys can read the encyclopedia and melt a chick. Its about feel, not words.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Irenicus - 07-26-2016

What I do (especially when I am gaming a 9/10):



1. My favorite method (I think this is from CH, can't recall) - when a bartender is close, I silently order a drink (which includes a glass of water). If she asks me to buy her a drink (in EE only gold diggers do that), she will get a glass of water. If not, I will drink both in front of her. If she is nice, she can get a sip.



2. Treat her no differently than a 7/10 girl (in my book, "girl next door" type). This is VERY important if she is your LTR - keep reminding her INDIRECTLY (if she is being a bitch, even directly) that she is very expandable. She will hate you, but she will be attracted to you even more. That is called dread game, use it.


3. Don't buy her friends anything, unless they have done it before to you. Rinse and repeat.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Robert Plant - 07-27-2016

Being nice is fine as long as you are very confident, outcome independent and put off a sexual vibe.

Any girl who wants a true asshole has some problems and I wouldn't want to get involved beyond a one night stand. Some girls especially Americans are retarded enough that the "nice" label will make their pussies dry up. They are retarded and a waste of energy, their loss, not yours.

Once you develop a true abundance mentality you will realize that there are literally 10s of millions of sweet girls who just want confident, put together, non-asshole guys. So why waste time with dumb bitches. Now I realize in night game you have demonstrate higher value, but that doesn't mean being an asshole it just means believing and putting off the energy that no one girl is that important. Again, it's that outcome independence thing at work.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Phoenix - 07-27-2016

OP, you could always just punch a baby seal to death with your bare hands on put it on youtube. Very hard for the nice guy label to stick after that.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - godzilla - 07-27-2016

Thanks Phoenix , but I prefer Dolphin meat over Seal meat.

Actually I had a pretty good weekend in Budapest after I wrote this.

Sometimes it's better not to worry what bitches do.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - Htownanddown - 07-29-2016

I find that the more you sexualize an interaction with a woman, the less inclined she is to say your nice. Outside of a light teasing, I am not an asshole to women. A lot of times I find when a woman says a man is too nice, what she really means is he is too nice to really try to fuck me.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - ksbms - 07-30-2016

Wear a black leather jacket (and dark clothes in general), curse a lot, spit a lot, sit with your legs wide open, don't wait for permission, talk with a low voice, smile infrequently and you're golden.

-

-

-

I was kidding about spitting.

Avoiding the nice guy label. - hydrogonian - 07-30-2016

Your game should get more:

direct, and

cheeky instead of including serious convos about what you want or don't want. Convos like that are logical. A woman's attraction is never logical. It's instinctual. You have to say and do things that trigger that instinct, even if her social programming is providing resistance.

the important thing is to keep working on these things, through your own reading and thinking, but also through practice.

You didn't provide a context (date, instadate, friend get together, classmate, etc), and so my responses can't account for any various social factors that might change them. Generally, my context for hitting on women, in this vein, will be a social circle acquaintance or a cold approach; not a date:

Quote:Quote:

“I just wanted to be your friend.”

Friends who exchange orgasms?

You may be thinking of another guy, but I'll suck on that pussy until the bugle pops out.

Quote:Quote:

“Don’t try to kiss me”

Sorry, I was just imagining your moth around around my cock / eating that tight little pussy.

Quote:Quote:

“Well im not a slut”

I just want to eat your pussy, not call anyone names.

Quote:Quote:

Quote:Quote:

A couple lines later and usually I tell her, “I don’t want to be your friend...nothing is stopping you from leaving if that's what you want.”

^^ Your entertaining her rejection in your response. Direct protest of rejection never works. Just come at it from another angle. See above.

Quote:Quote:

As everyone knows, I full of travel advice, so any game advice is appreciated.

If you want to avoid being seen as a 'nice guy' ever again, master the above type of game. I'm not saying that the above exact lines are perfect, but they are along the lines of what you should be doing if everything else about you is communicating "nice guy". Some guys can get away with softer game if other things about them are sexy or dangerous. If that isn't you, then you have to communicate sex and not giving a fuck through your language.

Just remember to not say these things like you require a response. That would be "creepy". It has to be casual and unattached. You can even say them and immediately walk away. The type of response that these lines get can be delayed, as she will then be working through her social programming in favor of her instinct. There is less of a delay if alcohol is involved. Some women will approach you at a later date after delivering such direct game.