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An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - rotekz - 03-30-2016

This epic new Breitbart article by Milo Yiannopoulos and Allum Bokhari is a must-read.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29...alt-right/

[Image: slack_for_ios_upload-640x480.jpg]

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Enoch - 03-30-2016

Krauser has an interesting take on this.

"Gays always make everything into them being fabulous, as we see in real-time with Milo."

I like Milo but its a strong point.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - El Chinito loco - 03-30-2016

Quote: (03-30-2016 05:04 PM)rotekz Wrote:  

This epic new Breitbart article by Milo Yiannopoulos and Allum Bokhari is a must-read.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29...alt-right/

[Image: slack_for_ios_upload-640x480.jpg]

That's a great read. I wasn't aware that ramzpaul termed the 1488'ers larpers but that's a hilarious and accurate description of their worldview.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Phoenix - 03-30-2016

I've never really liked the term 'conservative'. It conjures up the idea of someone who just defers to the status quo. The left shifts society in their direction, and the conservatives merely drag their feet, instead of pushing back in the opposite direction in a sustained and equally forceful manner.

I much prefer the term 'right wing'. Technically, the name for groups like us is reactionary. This is within the umbrella of right wing, but further right than mere conservatism, yet left of fascism. Not just wanting to merely conserve what we have, but wanting to revert to an earlier form of social organization. Trump is a reactionary, not a mere conservative like Jeb. He even says so: make America great again.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - hydrogonian - 03-31-2016

This is the first article that I've ever encountered, in a semi-mainstream publication or better, that attempted to couch the interests of the alt-right in anything but a foundation of economic insecurity.

Which, if one thinks about this framing strategy as well as the overall economic focus of the establishment Republicans, is just a continuation of the economic frame that communists insist upon. Like the communists, the establishment holds that politics is defined and driven by economics. Merely taking the opposite economic position makes them reinforcers of the communist worldview in their acceptance of the overall framework of the culture denying political model and the discussion. I digress.

Anyway, this is the most incisive and honest article that I've ever read on the politics of at least 1/3rd of the Western population. I'll be curious as to whether the establishment media ignores or addresses it, given their primary strategy of ignoring the truths laid forth in the article and disingenuously reframing motivations as a means of platform denial.

Every time I thought that the authors were going to cop out, they reeled it back in. In addition, these two journalists were impressively objective, in spite of personal stakes, in a manner that I have not witnessed perhaps ever in my adult life. It can now be said that at least two journalists understand modern politics and understand what the difference is between propaganda and journalism. They are choosing the West and the prospect of peace over any other agenda to include that of any possible interest in a particular political group that they might identify with. Good for them and for Breitbart.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - MMX2010 - 03-31-2016

Thanks very much for sharing that article.

I learned a lot about myself and the alt-right. I'm about 20% meme team and 80% natural conservative.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Tytalus - 03-31-2016

This is a fantastic article, I will be sharing it with people I know.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Requiem - 03-31-2016

Yep, even though he's gay, I like Milo a lot. He's doing some great work for the manosphere. But after the Rubin interview I was under the impression he didn't understand the seriousness of the matter and what Alt-Righters really think. This article however, is a pretty accurate depiction of what the situation looks like. I'd have some things to add about the 1488ers, but it doesn't matter all that much. I'd guess his co-author contributed some good insight that clarified a few things for Milo. One thing they still get wrong though... their denial of a certain historic event isn't just memes to rustle some jimmies.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - rotekz - 03-31-2016

Quote: (03-31-2016 02:03 PM)Requiem Wrote:  

I'd have some things to add about the 1488ers, but it doesn't matter all that much. I'd guess his co-author contributed some good insight that clarified a few things for Milo. One thing they still get wrong though... their denial of a certain historic event isn't just memes to rustle some jimmies.
Do 1488'ers get involved in memes? Are they comparable to meme team types?

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - blacknwhitespade - 04-01-2016

Ask any alt-right person if they approve of the main stream right practice of carpet bagging and putting strip malls on other societies? Go ahead, I dare you.

A trickle of people on their own who conformed to the local ways has never been a problem. Waves of migrant workers funded by hot money and da guberment subsidies has always been a problem.

That's exactly one of the biggest problems of why the conservative movement (at least conservatism as we have known it) is dead. Too much emphasis on numbers, charts, economic theories without any regard to the inseparable link of economy to social well-being. This akin to left-wing people who press hard for liberal immigration policies that re-enforce their worship of multiculturalism and diversity. But will a town like Los Angeles still be "diverse" in another 20 years when every city street is just one strip mall after another of Taquerias and the occasional Cambodian-owned donut shop or Korean-run liquor store?

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - not-a-pua - 04-02-2016

The 1488 crowd is not pleased. I have to admit, I like the headline in their reply. It's funny. The article is pure hate.

"Breitbart’s Alt-Right Analysis is the Product of a Degenerate Homosexual and an Ethnic Mongrel"

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - El Chinito loco - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 04:16 AM)not-a-pua Wrote:  

The 1488 crowd is not pleased. I have to admit, I like the headline in their reply. It's funny. The article is pure hate.

"Breitbart’s Alt-Right Analysis is the Product of a Degenerate Homosexual and an Ethnic Mongrel"

If these guys wanted to be the supposed "storm vanguard" of white civilization why don't they start by taking an active role mopping up the streets of Europe first instead of jacking off over sick burn internet memes.

Aside from the neo-nazi stuff the reason why noone takes 1488'ers seriously or just shuns them is because they go for easy low hanging fruit. Their actions are cowardly.

They make a big fuss over attacking Roosh, Cernovich, Milo, Ramzpaul etc.. in comments sections because these are available and safe targets on the right for them to pick at. They claim ideological purity when they don't even put forth a coherent face or political foundation behind their rage.

They are not different from extremist SJWs hiding behind Guy Fawkes masks or pretending to be anonymous. Too cowardly to go after real targets and will instead snipe individuals they know they can do with safety and anonymity.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - not-a-pua - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 04:28 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

They make a big fuss over attacking Roosh, Cernovich, Milo, Ramzpaul etc.. in comments sections because these are available and safe targets on the right for them to pick at. They claim ideological purity when they don't even put forth a coherent face or political foundation behind their rage.

They are not different from extremist SJWs hiding behind Guy Fawkes masks or pretending to be anonymous. Too cowardly to go after real targets and will instead snipe individuals they know they can do with safety and anonymity.

I thought about one of the arguments, especially as they attacked Ramz Paul. And I think they are right in a sense that Ramz and other should not fight with the 1488 crowd. Treat them like a Super-PAC! The left does this all the time. They have their Antifa that burns down cars and beats up opponents. But they never are alligned with this crowd. Let them lose and let them smash.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Roosh - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 04:16 AM)not-a-pua Wrote:  

The 1488 crowd is not pleased. I have to admit, I like the headline in their reply. It's funny. The article is pure hate.

"Breitbart’s Alt-Right Analysis is the Product of a Degenerate Homosexual and an Ethnic Mongrel"

They were so busy attacking me, someone who had no plans to co-opt or even join their movement, that they've essentially allowed a gay Brit and half-Pakistani man to define them without their input. [Image: lol.gif]

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - cubanlinx - 04-02-2016

1488ers spend more time attacking those who'd be aligned with their beliefs than those who wouldn't.
They amble into the ROK comments section sometimes. Easy to find too. Look for "genetic waste" and "purge the xenos" (no embellishment). I love these guys. They're great for a laugh.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - OculusDexter - 04-02-2016

This is a pretty interesting development.

My first observation is that Breitbart has amazingly ventured to discuss the alt right in what is now a pretty mainstream site. My mom reads it.

However, I do think that anglin makes some good points about the article. I love to read daily stormer because it's hilarious and it speaks a lot of truth, but it's part of the 1488ers in the sense that it's basically a bitch fest and an unrealistic plea for a nazi or white nationalist utopia that simply isn't going to ever happen.

But the points he makes about the article sort of underplaying real sentiments towards blacks and Jews is valid. The alt right is sort of divided on homosexuality so long as it's not pushed on society, but it's uniformly against homo propaganda and indoctrination. The alt right is uniformly in agreement with human biodiversity research and differences among races. It uniformly agrees that blacks, in particular, have lower IQ on average and higher aggressive tendencies, which need to be addressed in order to have black schools and neighborhoods not devolve into shitholes.

It's also somewhat divided on the Jewish question, but I think that most of the alt right is not happy about what Jews as a group have done to the west (basically the vanguard of the left), and see traditional conservatism as having been infiltrated by neocon Jews who have pushed US policy into pro Israel stances and wars that were ultimately to our detriment.

So when Milo and the other guy say all those memes are just trolling, they're not being accurate. It's trolling, but it's not purely in jest or just to get a rise. It's a new tactic of mocking the problem makers to weaken them. But the alt right really does believe that feminism, Jewish media, and BLM are complete bullshit and their enemies.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - rw95 - 04-02-2016

I've been reading a lot of these 1488/white nationalist sites lately, i.e Amren, The Right Stuff, Heartiste, etc. For the life of me, I don't know why, considering I'm only half-white. But it strikes me that most of these guys really aren't any better than BLM people who blame white people for everything. You hear them bragging so much about being "pure," and how much they hate mongrels. I remember reading one article on the Right Stuff about not dating Asian women, saying that if you're mixed, you can't be inspired to achieve greatness because you're not pure. Then in the comments, they were all going on about how they were the descendants of Vikings, or Aryans, etc., and how they were descended from greatness and they were destined to achieve the same. And in the meantime I'm thinking: "Cool story, bro.

"What are you doing with those genetics besides bitching on the internet?"

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - 262 - 04-02-2016

One of the reasons I like this forum is its emphasis on self-improvement.

What's the point of [insert genetic advantage/heritage here] if you're lazy?

Who's to say [insert genetic advantage/heritage here] is worth more than [insert other genetic advantage/heritage here]? Aside from a free market, of course.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - nomadbrah - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 09:24 AM)rw95 Wrote:  

I've been reading a lot of these 1488/white nationalist sites lately, i.e Amren, The Right Stuff, Heartiste, etc. For the life of me, I don't know why, considering I'm only half-white. But it strikes me that most of these guys really aren't any better than BLM people who blame white people for everything. You hear them bragging so much about being "pure," and how much they hate mongrels. I remember reading one article on the Right Stuff about not dating Asian women, saying that if you're mixed, you can't be inspired to achieve greatness because you're not pure. Then in the comments, they were all going on about how they were the descendants of Vikings, or Aryans, etc., and how they were descended from greatness and they were destined to achieve the same. And in the meantime I'm thinking: "Cool story, bro.

"What are you doing with those genetics besides bitching on the internet?"

This is a common argument and a false one. I'm not 1488, far from it, but while taking pride in an ethnic heritage might seem cheap to you, it is also something white Europeans (and those of that heritage) desperately NEEDS. White young Europeans are historical and cultural orphans, which as for all orphans, is not a good position to be in. Everyone needs to know their heritage. And not only know their heritage, but to understand their frailty in the churning grindstone of history. Think you are special? How many people do we know the names of from 500 years back, not many. Understanding the broad lines of your people is also a way to understand both your mortality and you immortality.

Second, most the white purity crowd is as Roosh saw it, just spillover from the PUAHate crowd. That's the fags in comment sections saying don't fuck Asians/Blacks/Latinas. What the actual 1488s, such as the Daily Stormer (again I'm not advocating or part of that) is don't have children with other races. The difference is defensive vs aggressive.

I also think there ton of trolls and agent provocateurs in the 1488 movement. I bet tons of Hasbarah types, they're easy to spot on ROK and Heartiste with their strange beliefs and half-truths, half-lies. I would go so far as say most these commenters are trolls, morons and agent provocateurs. Most of the influential publishers in that movement came out rather quickly with support for Roosh.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Andy_B - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 04:16 AM)not-a-pua Wrote:  

The 1488 crowd is not pleased. I have to admit, I like the headline in their reply. It's funny. The article is pure hate.

"Breitbart’s Alt-Right Analysis is the Product of a Degenerate Homosexual and an Ethnic Mongrel"

I just finished reading Anglin's article. Jesus Christ it's dumb. Just gonna address a few of the points one by one.

Quote:Quote:

Basically, they claim that everything the alt-right says it believes they don’t actually believe, but simply say they believe it as a part of a joke to piss off feminists and Black lives activists. Because they think it is funny to piss people off.

That's not what Milo/Allum's article actually says at all. To quote the Breitbart piece:

"Natural conservatives can broadly be described as the group that the intellectuals above were writing for. They are mostly white, mostly male middle-American radicals, who are unapologetically embracing a new identity politics that prioritises the interests of their own demographic."

This is just one example of what Milo (correctly) assesses as being the beliefs of part of the alt-right. Elsewhere, he cites the example of the manosphere. He's not saying that the alt-right isn't sincere, he's just saying there's a contingent among the alt-right who are trolls. And that's correct.

Quote:Quote:

Possibly excluding /pol/, the largest part of the alt-right movement is the Daily Stormer. We have at least four times the traffic of all of the cuck alt-right sites combined.

Uh, no?

ROK's traffic absolutely crushes the Daily Stormer's. See the Alexa comparison below; ROK is like Twice as highly ranked as DS.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.returnofkings.com

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/www.dailystormer.com

Quote:Quote:

What they do is describe the views of a minority of cuckolded alt-right figures – irrelevant figures – and then try to define the entire alt-right movement within that cuckolded minority’s paradigm.

Who are these cucked figures? Milo's article covers the manosphere, whose members have risked their lives and livelihoods for their beliefs for their beliefs repeatedly, and without the satirical veneer that the Daily Stormer apparently relies on to disarm people into thinking its just a joke (I personally always thought that site was mostly satire, until reading Anglin's reply to the Breitbart piece; now that Anglin's saying they're totally serious about this, I have to conclude that they have serious messaging problems, which will be a focus of my criticism of a few points below)

Quote:Quote:

Of course we hate these people.

Saying that we don’t hate them, and it’s all a big joke because we want to anger our parents, is not just spin, it’s an outright lie.

Andrew, your site reads 100% like satirical trolling to me. If you are motivated by serious principles and have serious goals, it's not evident from any of the content on your site. The Daily Stormer hasn't turned the alt-right into a neo-nazi movement and won't any time soon.

Quote:Quote:

We actually, literally hate these people who are trying to destroy us.

We are going to fight them and we are going to win.

Who is "they," and who is "we"?

If by "they" you mean The Jews, you haven't gotten the message across all that well, as there are many Jewish members of the alt right.

If by "we" you mean the whole alt-right, what do you make of the fact that everybody who has replied to your article on ROK so far does not approve of it? Is ROK simply not part of the alt-right? Or, (as I consider more likely) is it possible that the article is correct in its analysis, and the 1488 set does not actually represent the alt right?

Quote:Quote:

I’ve written a long essay explaining to Ramz Paul that no one actually knows anyone who dresses up and pretends to be an historical Nazi. He never responded and just kept saying the same things over and over. Then he told the same thing to these Breitbart people...

... Ramz has previously called me a “1488er.” I think this term is extremely faggotish. Apparently, it refers to anyone who blames the Jews and says the Holocaust is a hoax.

Well, is Ramz part of the alt-right or not? If so, and he's only of the 'cucked' alt-right figures, what do you make of other alt-righters (i.e. Roosh, Cernovich) who disagree with neo-nazism and are clearly not cucked as evidenced by actually risking their lives for their beliefs IRL instead of posting epic maymays all day?

Overall, Anglin penned a pretty retarded piece here.

Elsewhere (I'm too lazy to dig up the article) he wrote that his strategy is to publicly look like the most extremist Nazi possible because it makes the more moderate alt-right positions look reasonable by contrast. He goes on to show how the left did this with Black Panthers and NAMBLA, who helped make moderate black/gay rights seem tame in comparison.

If this is what Anglin's game is, then I don't see why he even wrote this piece: he admits himself he's only doing it in the service of the broader alt-right, which clearly doesn't agree with him.

On the whole I think he's just confused and doesn't really know what he's doing.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Praetor Lupus - 04-02-2016

Quote: (03-30-2016 11:05 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I've never really liked the term 'conservative'. It conjures up the idea of someone who just defers to the status quo. The left shifts society in their direction, and the conservatives merely drag their feet, instead of pushing back in the opposite direction in a sustained and equally forceful manner.

I much prefer the term 'right wing'. Technically, the name for groups like us is reactionary. This is within the umbrella of right wing, but further right than mere conservatism, yet left of fascism. Not just wanting to merely conserve what we have, but wanting to revert to an earlier form of social organization. Trump is a reactionary, not a mere conservative like Jeb. He even says so: make America great again.

The problem I have with the term conservative is that, like the term saturated fat, for example, it doesn't accurately describe what it's attached to. The term saturated fat might make you think of a dense, heavy sponge, dripping with grease. In fact, it's simply referring to the chemical structure of the fat molecules. Likewise, conservatism isn't necessarily about trying to conserve something, or about being 'athwart history, yelling "Stop!"'.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - rw95 - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 07:17 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

Quote: (04-02-2016 09:24 AM)rw95 Wrote:  

I've been reading a lot of these 1488/white nationalist sites lately, i.e Amren, The Right Stuff, Heartiste, etc. For the life of me, I don't know why, considering I'm only half-white. But it strikes me that most of these guys really aren't any better than BLM people who blame white people for everything. You hear them bragging so much about being "pure," and how much they hate mongrels. I remember reading one article on the Right Stuff about not dating Asian women, saying that if you're mixed, you can't be inspired to achieve greatness because you're not pure. Then in the comments, they were all going on about how they were the descendants of Vikings, or Aryans, etc., and how they were descended from greatness and they were destined to achieve the same. And in the meantime I'm thinking: "Cool story, bro.

"What are you doing with those genetics besides bitching on the internet?"

This is a common argument and a false one. I'm not 1488, far from it, but while taking pride in an ethnic heritage might seem cheap to you, it is also something white Europeans (and those of that heritage) desperately NEEDS. White young Europeans are historical and cultural orphans, which as for all orphans, is not a good position to be in. Everyone needs to know their heritage. And not only know their heritage, but to understand their frailty in the churning grindstone of history. Think you are special? How many people do we know the names of from 500 years back, not many. Understanding the broad lines of your people is also a way to understand both your mortality and you immortality.

Second, most the white purity crowd is as Roosh saw it, just spillover from the PUAHate crowd. That's the fags in comment sections saying don't fuck Asians/Blacks/Latinas. What the actual 1488s, such as the Daily Stormer (again I'm not advocating or part of that) is don't have children with other races. The difference is defensive vs aggressive.

I also think there ton of trolls and agent provocateurs in the 1488 movement. I bet tons of Hasbarah types, they're easy to spot on ROK and Heartiste with their strange beliefs and half-truths, half-lies. I would go so far as say most these commenters are trolls, morons and agent provocateurs. Most of the influential publishers in that movement came out rather quickly with support for Roosh.

I am not saying one should not take pride in an ethnic heritage. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. What I am speaking against are these 1488 types who seem to spend all their time blaming Jews/Blacks/"Mongrels" for all the problems of the world and not really doing anything about it. If you're English/Swedish/Polish, whatever and you feel pride in your heritage by all means be proud of it! But doesn't someone with half-English and half sub-Saharan African ancestry have as much right to be proud of his English heritage as someone of half-English and half-Irish ancestry? To these guys it seems that the latter does while the former does not.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Liberty Sea - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 08:38 PM)Praetor Lupus Wrote:  

Quote: (03-30-2016 11:05 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

I've never really liked the term 'conservative'. It conjures up the idea of someone who just defers to the status quo. The left shifts society in their direction, and the conservatives merely drag their feet, instead of pushing back in the opposite direction in a sustained and equally forceful manner.

I much prefer the term 'right wing'. Technically, the name for groups like us is reactionary. This is within the umbrella of right wing, but further right than mere conservatism, yet left of fascism. Not just wanting to merely conserve what we have, but wanting to revert to an earlier form of social organization. Trump is a reactionary, not a mere conservative like Jeb. He even says so: make America great again.

The problem I have with the term conservative is that, like the term saturated fat, for example, it doesn't accurately describe what it's attached to. The term saturated fat might make you think of a dense, heavy sponge, dripping with grease. In fact, it's simply referring to the chemical structure of the fat molecules. Likewise, conservatism isn't necessarily about trying to conserve something, or about being 'athwart history, yelling "Stop!"'.

A reactionary is someone who stands athwart history, yelling "Go back!" instead of merely yelling "Stop!", at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.

I prefer the term "traditionalist" though.
"I have so many fabulous friends who happen to be gay, but I am a traditionalist." - Donald Trump.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - Street Justice - 04-02-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 04:28 AM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

If these guys wanted to be the supposed "storm vanguard" of white civilization why don't they start by taking an active role mopping up the streets of Europe first instead of jacking off over sick burn internet memes.

Less than a century ago, Adolf Hitler wrote sick memes from prison and within 15 years some 1488 types were mopping up the streets of Europe. It's not unprecedented.

An Establishment Conservative's Guide To The Alt-Right - not-a-pua - 04-03-2016

Quote: (04-02-2016 06:42 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

They were so busy attacking me, someone who had no plans to co-opt or even join their movement, that they've essentially allowed a gay Brit and half-Pakistani man to define them without their input. [Image: lol.gif]

If you want to troll them in the future you could mention that, as a Persian man, you are actually an Aryan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

These Nazis are appropriating your culture damnit.