Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Printable Version
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Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Nomad77 - 09-26-2014
It's hard to say exactly what it is but there is something off about you. What I would recommend is that you get some in person help or find someone on here who you can hang out with a little bit and who can give you some feedback. Without seeing how you behave in the real world and around women it would be difficult to tell you what you need to do to fix your problem.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Giovonny - 09-27-2014
Quote: (09-26-2014 09:09 PM)thegreenman Wrote:
at least I'm touching. What next? What's the next level?
You already asked this question.
And, I already gave you the answer..
Quote: (09-18-2014 03:27 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
I recommend "Soft Stroking". This means to gently caress and rub a woman in a playful yet seductive way. I usually start with her hands, shoulders, or knee area.
Here is a specific example:
We smoked some more and listened to some music. We were sitting right next to each other on my couch, our knees occasionally touching.
I started my escalation by touching her hands, rubbing them and caressing them, she responded well by turning her hands over and opening them up.
I started to rub her wrists, forearms, upper arms and shoulders taking my time before moving higher. I caressed her collarbone and neckline, rubbed her back and ran my hand across the back of her neck...
Finally, I put my nose on her ear and my face next to hers.. I ran my lips over her neck and hair line..
We start making out, I rub her ass, I lightly spank her ass..
I am starting to suspect that you may have a learning disability??? Some people are just not good at learning new things..
And, I'm also stating to suspect that you are subconsciously or consciously self sabotaging yourself. This could be a deep rooted childhood issue..
Also, do you think its possible that you could be gay?
Serious question. I just want to explore every possibility.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Truth Teller - 09-27-2014
Rabbi game?
Also, stop overthinking it. It's not that tough.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - thegreenman - 10-06-2014
Giovonny:
Yea you did explain how you initiate touch with a girl. But that was from the point where she 's already:
1) sitting on your couch next to you
2) in private
3) with the tacit understanding that it's a nascent sexual encounter, and sex is what's on your minds and the purpose of being there
4) not just close to you, im assuming, but that extra-close proximity that says "more than friends" (see #3)
From this condition, your escalation moves make good sense, and I'd definitely try them if I have a chance.
But you left out how you got here to that point, where all four of those factors were present. The farthest I've gotten with a girl, including Kung-fu chick, is #1 (sitting next to me). I haven't yet been able to achieve 2, 3, or 4.
I'm especially interested in #3 because i think its the key thats missing. This mutual understanding that sex is whats being thought about - that even if the two of you dont end up having sex, SEX was the thing you ended up not having. It's kinda like the difference between a "No" and an "N/A".
As in Yes/No or N/A.
The girl on your couch was thinking "do i want to have sex with Giovonny? Yes/No....
But with me theyre not even asking that to begin with. Its not even the thing in question. I'm an "N/A". It's not even applicable.
And ive tried to ameliorate this by bringing up sex in conversation. When I do, they look at me in shock, like it was totally unwarranted, inappropriate, weird, etc to bring it up. The interaction is then over, and I am shunned by that girl and all of her friends thereafter as a persona-non-grata to be avoided.
And I'm not gay. I can understand why you brought it up, and I'm not offended. It was a logical base to cover.
But here are my hetero credentials:
-Attracted to females
-Intense, unabating need for female contact
-Not a single instance of attraction to a male in 16 years of post-puberty
-Brief, accidental female touch leading to erections so powerful they triggered a need to run home and masturbate (this happened several times in highschool and college. In fact, there were times when just sitting next to a girl in class, without even touching, without making any eye contact or verbal contact whatsoever for the entire class, but just periodically glancing over at her cleavage, caused me such arousal that I had to leave early and run back to my dorm to unleash the load. One time i was on the campus shuttle bus, sitting next to a really hot black girl, and I could feel her body heat emanating off of her. It was driving me nuts. Then the bus got stuck in traffic. Eventually i was losing my mind so i put my backpack on top of my crotch, and used my other hand to masturbate, which only took about 10 seconds. Thankfully no one noticed ).
Those are my hetero creds. Ive never been attracted to a dude in my whole life.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - thegreenman - 10-07-2014
Ok I'm back. I know its been awhile.
I just spent a long hiatus traveling around the area, going to local villages, visiting the world's deepest gorge, collecting feral cannabis, and doing lots of hiking. Of course i didnt actually have fun in any of it, due to sexual starvation. But I'm coming closer to the realization that I need to get out of China. This is not the place i need.
For one thing, although Chinese girls are very submissive, they're not sexually open. In fact, they're extremely repressed. They freak out if I even try to hug them. This culture is NOT one for physical touch.
And although my market value is higher here than in the states, for some reason I'm not able to make anything "click." I'm being passed over just like I was back home. The only difference is that I get an introductory period of a few hours to a few days, where I have respect and attention. After that period, however, I start to notice that even though the girls are NICE to me, they're not thinking of me in a sexual way.
American girls are the rudest, meanest rejectors. Chinese girls continue to be kind, and treat me well - but I can tell they have zero interest in anything romantic or physical. As far as dating goes, I'm no more on their radar than I am on an American girl's radar.
Fuck this. This ain't what I signed up for.
I am gathering up the courage to tell my very nice and kind coworkers and boss that I'm leaving. Everything here was perfect, except for not having feminine affection.
My family and friends back home will not understand. They will call me a quitter. With their comfortable sex-partners and easy, daily access to affection, they don't understand what its like to not have that, and how important it is to get it.
Whatever. Fuck them.
Fuck the whole world.
The only point in living is to love and be loved. If you don't have that, you might as well take the beautiful gift of life and return it to the store. It's worthless.
My main - no, ONLY - purpose in life now is to find someone to love. There is nothing else. All of my hobbies and interests are worthless. I don't give a shit about any of it. Everything I used to care about, everything I used to be passionate about, is dead to me.
Yoga is dead to me. Hiking/trekking is dead to me. Ecology/environmentalism is dead to me. My mission to make the world a better place and alleviate others' suffering and leave a positive effect on the planet and humanity - it's all dead. I can't muster one nerve impulse of care for any of it anymore.
I need only one thing: another human being to love, touch, cuddle with, and care about me. Until I have this, nothing else exists. The universe is linear, one dimension only. I am done.
All caring emotion has been hardened and crusted over by over a decade of starvation and abandonment. The capacity to look at anything in this world with interest or curiosity is dried up like a pool in the Atacama. A starving man cannot appreciate philosophy. To me, every inch and atom of this world is philosophy - with the sole exception of a woman's touch.
I will get a woman's touch, or die trying.
I'm going to Thailand. I'm going whether I have a job waiting for me or not. I've sent out applications - dozens of them, with only one lukewarm response. But it doesn't matter. I'm going, and I'm trusting that I'll have something by the time my cash runs out. I've got about $300. That'll last me about 3 weeks. Less than that if I spend it on girls - but I'm prepared to die. If I spend it all, and wind up on the street, that will be ok, as long as I got to spend some time with a girl. I can then go to my death knowing that I did everything I could, and my last memories of this life will be of sleeping with a girl at my side.
Of course in all likelihood some school will hire me before I run out. 75% chance I won't starve. But I'm willing to take the chance. I'm willing to die. This world has nothing left for me. Nothing except one thing - female affection - and I am ready to stake my life on it. I'm ready to give God the ultimatum.
Give me love, or give me death.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Nomad77 - 10-07-2014
Contact this member in Thailand for help: VincentVinturi
You need personal infield help.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Simeon_Strangelight - 10-07-2014
Greenman - that sounds rather desperate, but I cannot really blame you. You will come out fine.
Still - while being willing to do all that you might as well take the time and energy to optimize your look - go down in body fat, work out, shave your head and get a tan.
All this might seem trivial to you, but I am betting that you improve your sexual attraction by 1-2 points by those things. Plus it gives you something positive to do that can effectively impact your future love life. Most other hobbies have no direct relation to getting laid.
In any case - good luck - try to contact some RVF guys in Thailand. They might be able to give you some assistance.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - MdWanderer - 10-07-2014
Quote: (10-07-2014 12:01 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
Of course in all likelihood some school will hire me before I run out. 75% chance I won't starve. But I'm willing to take the chance. I'm willing to die. This world has nothing left for me. Nothing except one thing - female affection - and I am ready to stake my life on it. I'm ready to give God the ultimatum.
Give me love, or give me death.
Greenman I have a very important question for you. Do you have a racial or a bodily preference? Many people in your position I know have only one type of girl in mind and shut themselves off, limiting their pool. Have you looked at Jewish women? I knew a Jewish guy in your same position from college (never dated or even kissed a girl in college) and then moved to Israel and found his first girlfriend. You can get birthright trips there for free.
Secondly, where have you lived in the United States? Have you tried NYC or Southern California? I am from Baltimore just like you and it is pretty tough there. I have found that a change of location can do you good, even within the U.S (in case you have to ever move back for some reason). I do know you're trying to get to Thailand so that might do you good.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Tony_Flame - 10-08-2014
This is a very dramatic story. And I'm sure your are not the only 'normal' man cursed with celibaty. So respect for being so open and sharing your greatest pain with us. The community will give their best to help you.
Cold Approach is the hardest way to meet women and there aren't many guys who are good with it. So be carefull about your expectations from cold approach because it's really complex when two strangers meet. There are more reasons fr her to say no than otherwise. To compensate this exaggerate all your small results you had so far and forget all the negative ones.
I would absolutely discourage you to state everything at one card (your Thailand trip). It's not a solution, merely a recreational holiday. DONT GIVE UP, you are still young enough to make it and you never know what's going to happen.
Our understanding of the game might change in a few years and new advanced courses and concepts may evolve which can finally bring salvation to you. Communities like this are giving their best and it's the first time in history that men are bold enough to engineer game for everyone. You gotta be ready and constantly practice, collect new ideas and gain experience. And have fun with it...enjoy it even when you don't have success. The game itself is rewarding enough. You will gain such a deep self-love and self-respect among the journey if you keep the right mindset/ positive attitude.
IF you finally make it you will probably be the HAPPIEST man on earth, because you have gone through hell and didn't give up.
One REALLY IMPORTANT thing if you belive in god:
Don't express any hate towards god and really stop this death thougts. This is the worst thing you can do and it could be your ultimate checkmate! Women are not the purpose of life... even without them life is still a fantastic gift... theyare more like a (fantastic) bonus. God knows our desire as a man and for this reason created women. They are created for us, not the other way around. God is your friend but for some reason he wants us to carry our cross in life. Even his own son had to do so. We don't understand why- but be sure that god really loves us... his love is far more superior than the love you can recieve from a human being (or woman). Who knows what great gifts he has ready for those who were ready to carry their cross in life? So even if you stay incel for the rest of your life don't sacrifice your faith!
There has been written a lot here regarding game advice. Definetly go out and meet guys who are really good with women. There probably aren't a lot of them so use the offers in this thread. This might open your eyes and show you new possibilities. Immerse yourself in field and sort your inner game and mindsets. To be honest: 3000 approaches in a 10 year period isn't enough to make significant changes and master the art of cold approach. Probably everyone of us has been in a plateau where he wanted to give up- but if you survive that phase you will come out stronger than ever before! The (S)HBs are waiting for strong men who are solid like a rock.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Every10GivesMeA10 - 10-08-2014
No one has even asked about this guy's looks?
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Giovonny - 10-08-2014
Quote: (10-07-2014 12:01 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
My main - no, ONLY - purpose in life now is to find someone to love. There is nothing else.
You need professional help!
Trying to solve these problems by yourself is not working.
You need a team of professionals to help you.
You need intensive therapy.
Or, you need to be more patient with yourself and understand that your problems will take years to solve. Especially, if you try fixing them by yourself.
Quote: (10-07-2014 12:01 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
The only point in living is to love and be loved. If you don't have that, you might as well take the beautiful gift of life and return it to the store. It's worthless.
I disagree.
Life can be awesome even without "love" from a woman.
"Love" is nice while it lasts but it can also be very painful when it ends.
Don't get me wrong, I love "love" but even when I don't have it, life is good.
Quote: (10-08-2014 07:22 AM)Every10GivesMeA10 Wrote:
No one has even asked about this guy's looks?
We don't have to ask because..
He posted pics earlier.
And, I have skyped with him.
He is not an ugly man, he is at least average in looks.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Cattle Rustler - 10-08-2014
To complement what Gio said:
It's not a one day thing, things take time. I'm starting to lift because my upper body is not where I want it to be, I won't get results in one day. Gio didn't get college hotties in one day neither, it took him 4 years to get where he is. At the same time, he's enjoying the trip and the day to day life. Did he get to his nirvana? Absolutely.
If you're thinking that loving someone can bring you joy, you are not ready for the break up part. Because the break up part will be worse than what you're experiencing right now. It's knowing there is someone but accepting that there is someone better. You can't go to step C without passing through A and B.
Do some "lifestyle game", do what you want and fuck everything else. When you're doing well, people will notice and be around you trying to see what you're doing. This goes for bitches too, they don't want someone bitter or sad.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Krusyos - 10-09-2014
Wow. Quite a thread.
I don't have experience with non-American Chinese women, but kino is actually remarkably easy once you get over your trepidation. The jewelry excuse is a good one, but I also like to grab and move a girl's wrist if it's on a paper or menu, and say "what you got there?" If she is open to the touch, start touching her more, to emphasize points, illustrate stories, or emphasize the punchline of a joke. If she remains open, then start moving closer to her, if she stays where she is and doesn't back away, put your arm around her. If she doesn't back away, go in for the kiss.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Redwood - 10-09-2014
greenman, you need to work on yourself more than you should go chasing pussy just for the sake of "love".
You're not entitled to love just because you're desperate for it. Focus on yourself, your favorite hobbies, and try to build genuine connections with people around you and you'll change for the better.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - TripleG - 10-13-2014
God throws different people, different challenges and height seems to be yours. At 5-2" unfortunately you are at a HUGE disadvantage in USA and with vast majority of the cold approaches you do. Cold approaches are all about looks and no matter how funny/creative you are if the girl does not like your look in the few minutes you talk to her on the street the interaction will not go far. So, for a guy like yourself I believe you are on the right path by going to Thailand to teach and game.
Going to SEA Asia where you have a bit of the WGF (White-God factor) will help and so will the fact that you will come across many women who are even shorter than you.
Nevertheless, I just hope that you do not resort to P4P as you have already mentioned those tendencies in the past. This is a game forum and if you do that you will loose respect of many of the guys from here who have given you great advice!
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - The Beast1 - 10-13-2014
Quote: (10-07-2014 12:01 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
My main - no, ONLY - purpose in life now is to find someone to love. There is nothing else.
WRONG A woman's only purpose in life is to find love. YOUR purpose is to define and make what your own purpose is.
Quote: (10-07-2014 12:01 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
The only point in living is to love and be loved. If you don't have that, you might as well take the beautiful gift of life and return it to the store. It's worthless.
Wrong again. You are looking for something in other people instead of looking inside yourself. I know what it is like to be there, I struggled hard core through middle school and high school with women. You've made some notable progress in maturing yourself through working on social skills, but it's time you take the next step: actually developing your skills and values as a man.
Stop trying to game women. It's obvious that it isn't working. You need a goal that is outside of you and in "finding" love. You won't find love with that current attitude.
However, I can't "tell" you what your life goal is. Only you can figure that out. I can however tell you things that helped clear my own life up and others here will tell you it's my mantra and the mantra of many others on the forum.
Why don't you instead try to organically make friends with people. Men and women. Be friendly, ask questions, do things with people. Discover friendship first. Be a good friend to a man or woman (don't be a push over!). Learn how friendships work first.
I didn't read the last 10 pages, but if you aren't doing this already eat a healthier diet and strength train. This will correct your posture and make you appear more confident.
But the first thing you need to do is stop "wanting" a relationship. You won't get one until you focus your energies away from it.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - thegreenman - 12-11-2014
Update 12/5 (and maybe the final post on this thread):
Well guys, I'm happy to report that my love/sex life has finally begun. The situation I was in when I wrote the previous updates no longer exists.
I am now fully confident in my ability to attract women, and to get physical with them.
This is due to three big factors:
-a girlfriend
-Thailand
-being pursued and lavished (and offered sex) by a hot rich chick, and debating the very awesome dilemma of what to do when two chicks are into you at the same time
Lets start with part 1
Part 1: The Girlfriend
Just a few days after posting my semi-suicidal, quasi-religiously-themed previous update, I met a girl who now considers herself my girlfriend.
I was browsing a corner store in a nearby village, looking at a random assortment of indigenous carvings, Buddha-figurines, vintage copies of the "little red book", and other random artifacts that looked as though they had survived the cultural revolution buried in someone's backyard, when I noticed some very sexy looking beercap openers, carved into the shape of scantily clad women. Seeing how cheap they were, I began envisioning a business plan if importing them to the US in bulk, and selling them there.
When I tried to ask the shopkeeper if she could get me 100 of them, I ran into communication difficulties. Luckily there was a Chinese girl in the shop who spoke English, overheard our (attempt at a) conversation, and offered to translate.
Although the business idea fizzled out, the translator chick began talking to me and asking me questions about myself. It turned out that we both liked to go hiking on the same forest path, and so we set up an insta-date - and headed for the hills.
On the way she dropped the C-bomb: she's a Christian. And she likes going to the woods to pray, so that no one can hear her. "Ok", I thought. No harm in that... I hung out with mormons all summer - I can handle it.
But what I was in for really stretched my comfort zone... in more ways than one.
On the one hand, she immediately started touching me, and when I reciprocated, she was totally cool with it. Within an hour, we were cuddling on the hillside, her head resting on my chest. It was the most sustained physical contact I had had with a girl in... in... hmmm... a long long time, and was more than I was used to.
And the other reason why it took me out of my comfort zone is because while she was laying on top of me, she was staring up at the sky, shouting, tears streaming down her face, and talking in a language that at first seemed like Chinese, but actually turned out to be "tongues".
Ooooooo...... kkkkkkkkk.........
Apparently it was no special occasion - she does it almost every day.
This presented me with the dilemma of pretending to think she's totally sane, in order to keep hanging out with her. I've also had to endure getting the bible read to me, listening to her shout verses in the bathroom for up to 45 minutes at a time (in Mandarin, Cantonese, and glossolalia-ese) and having to put on the act like I think her religion makes sense.
Yet my patience was rewarded, and I got myself my first girlfriend.
She followed me around, took care of me, and gave me the chance to get comfortable being in close proximity with a girl for extended periods of time, with repeated and often sustained touch, without the pressure of having to be a dancing monkey to retain interest. I got over my fear of comfort-oriented, "PG" rated touch.
And then... I went to Thailand.
Part 2: Thailand (and Laos)
Being on a visa that only allows 60-day periods, I had to do a "run" to a neighboring country by Oct 29 at the latest. I picked Thailand, and took the highly scenic, overland route that passes through northern Laos.
Laos has perhaps the least modernized, most pristine, "primitive" hill tribe cultures in the world, outside of Africa, Papua, and the Amazon. Despite only intending to pass through for one day, I ended up staying for a week, cutting my time in Thailand by half. I just had to - the hill tribes are so fascinating - they're so normal. I observed that the farther you travel out of town, and the less modern infrastructure you have, the happier the people look. When you get to the villages that are off of the road grid, and only accessible by foot, the people are just constantly smiling. The people washing their clothes in the river have more light shining in their eyes than the 'fortunate' people who have washing machines. The people with no TVs or radios spend their evenings talking and laughing with eachother throughout the village - and you can hear them from a long ways off. One evening, I perched myself on a hilltop overlooking a village, and just listened to the distant ambience of laughter, the normal evening sounds of people not chained down by television.
The modern cultural narrative that we are better off than our grass-hut-dwelling ancestors, I had always doubted. But after Laos, I feel ready to abandon it completely. From what I can tell, all of the labors of the Greeks, Romans, and everyone after them, has been for nought. The world is worse off because of our heroic accomplishments and genius inventions. How can we claim to "benefit" from anything invented over the last 5,000 years, if the hill tribes are happy while they don't even have the fuckin wheel?
Ok now that I've pissed off all of my readers and shown that I really am a troll after all, lets continue to the pivotal event:
..my menage-a-Thai.
I spent a week in Thailand, and I didn't take advantage of the 'massage' industry until the final night.
To make a long story short, I had a kind of threesome with one girl handjobbing me while I made out with the other. Having two girls in bed with me, both of them hot, and actually making it all the way to orgasm like this... did something. Something inside of me clicked.
From that moment on, I felt like a sexual being again. The memory of a gratifying orgasm is now stored in my neural wiring. Now I can refer back to this experience, whenever my dopamine system needs convincing that there does in fact exist in the world something called "reward".
It's also made me more confident. It's not so big of a deal to touch a girl now. I feel like I can do it, and it's not such a big deal.
And it's this new confidence that I believe has led me to part 3...
Part 3: Being propositioned by a rich hottie
To make a long story short, after I came back from Thailand (Nov15), the school gave me a new student for one-on-one lessons.
Within a week, she cancelled her classes, called me up, met me at an upscale restaurant, bought me lunch, and handed me an envelope with hundreds of dollars in it. "2000 yuan for 20 classes", she said. Ok. Wow. How can I say no to that?
This chick is pretty darn hot, in that petite little Chinese sorta way, very wealthy (she bought me a $100 jacket like it was pocket change), and lives with a ex-husband that she divorced but keeps around as an employee of her business and to raise their daughter.
She put me in the driver's seat of her SUV and told me to drive anywhere I want, thus commencing my first time behind the wheel of a four-wheeled vehicle in a foreign
country. We went to an interesting local indigenous cultural site at the foot of the mountain that's in the pictures I posted earlier in this thread.
After two days of making me her English-teacher-cum-driver, and "wining and dining" me at fancy restaurants, the subject of massage came up. I told her I'm good at massage, and gave her a sample. She liked the sample, and offered to get a room in a 5-star hotel so I can give her a full body one!
Read that last sentence again.
I wasn't sure what to do.
So she made it even clearer: she said "we can get a room and have sex."
She explicitly said it.
But I wasn't sure.
Why? Because I have a girlfriend! Well, a girl who calls herself my girlfriend. I don't know if I actually want to stay with her. (See why below)
And so began the most awesome problem I had ever had thus far in my life.
I don't know what to do. This is uncharted waters for me. But I won't bug you for advice. This is my thing to figure out. At least I'm in the game now. I might be a rookie, but at least I have access to the practice field.
Ok well if you feel like you have something to say, if you're really keeping up with my saga, here's some more info:
My girlfriend (lets call her Christian Girl) and I really don't match. She believes in judeo-christianism, which is a ridiculous belief system. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't so rigid about it - but she's absolutely close-minded. She won't even consider any ideas that aren't in the bible. She thinks yoga is evil! And buddhism too! And when I try to explain that they're not evil - and that if jesus and buddha were in the same room they'd probably be friends -she shuts down the conversation and tells me I'm "attacking her" and that she's a "delicate flower" and that she wants me to only "protect" her, not "attack" her.
Powerful mind games, I think.
Oh, and she's asked me to marry her!! On several occasions.
She said "god" gave her a vision, ten years ago, of who her husband would be - and that I match the description.
I've tried to tell her that i dont agree with all of her belief system. I even told her that I need to experience sexuality, and that if she's unwilling to address that part of me, (she's not willing to let even one drop of sexuality enter our space, and insists that her spiritual/emotional love should be enough, and that i would realize this if i "came to god"), I would have to seek it with someone else.
This really set her off. She threatened to never speak to me again, "forever and ever", unless I promised to have "only one girlfriend".
Meanwhile, or rather the day before this happened, was when the other girl (lets call her Rich Girl) propositioned me for sex. Since I hadn't had the "conversation" with Christian Girl yet, I decided not to go all the way with Rich Girl - instead I decided to compromise, and still explore a little bit - so I pulled over and we made out in her backseat. During this experience I felt really crappy inside, because I supposedly had a girlfriend. I didn't enjoy it. I don't really know what the term "girlfriend" even means, but Christian Girl definitely considered herself to have exclusive rights over me at that point. As I found out later when she threatened to never speak to me again.
While I was deciding whether to make this promise to her, I got a text from Rich Girl...
... saying basically that since I'm a virgin, and I don't know what I'm doing, she doesn't think it's a good idea to have sex with me.
Wtf?
So I was like, ok, maybe I should stick with Christian girl for now.
But after all this happened, (it happened about 3 weeks ago, November 22/23rd-ish) I regret not going all the way with Rich Girl. I think I should have just accepted her offer, gone to the hotel with her, and fucked. One time woulda been enough - instead I pussyfooted and "compromised" with a stupid backseat makeout like a fucking highschooler.
I'm growing to resent Christian Girl for causing me to miss this opportunity. I'm getting less and less patient with her. It's a fucking three-way relationship: me, and her, and a 2000-year-old zombie. If she can have jesus as her "husband" with me also as her husband, then why can't I have two wives?
It seems that would only be fair.
I think my time of exploring christianity is coming to a close. If you recall from the original post, I joined the mormon church last summer, mostly out of hatred for my family and feminists. But I was kiiiiiinda into it. I was like ok, as long as I'm hanging out with them, I'll give their jesus a chance.
But not now. Now I've seen firsthand how Christianity represses people and prevents them from having sex. I didn't have sex with EITHER girl. Not with the rich one because of the christian one, and not with that one because of her religion prohibiting it.
Anyway, marrying her is out of the question. I cant marry someone who thinks everything is evil if not contained within one book. "Open-minded" has always been on my list of qualities I need in a mate.
Open minded - willing to consider new ideas even if they conflict with present ideas
An open communicator - willing to listen to me speak my truth, even if she doesnt agree with it, and always willing to have a conversation, rather than letting things boil in silence
She does NOT meet those criteria.
But she's super devoted, and would probably make a great wife for whoever winds up with her. She's an almost perfect match for what the people on ROK consider good wife material.
I can't help but wonder, am I throwing something away?
But then again, ALL of my friends warn me that it would be madness to commit to her; at the very least, it would be insane to do so right now.
In any case, it was the happy-ending Thai massage that turned me from a bitter person into an optimistic person - the christian girlfriend just made the sexlessness a little more bearable, but it was the Thai chick who HEALED me.
So I'm taking this to mean that what I need is SEXUAL and SENSUAL, much more so than spiritual, and that even if jesus himself were to descend out of the clouds and tell me "I love you child", it wouldn't help, because it's not what I need. I need sexuality and sensuality.
And since Christian Girl is not willing to address those needs (unless I sign away the rest of my life to her), I've decided that I'm going to LJBF her.
Some of the more conservative ROK'ers will probably call me an idiot, but oh well.
I love her, as a friend. And I'm thankful for her affection, and for giving me the chance to "warm up" on physically touching girls before the key moment in Thailand, and for keeping me company until that time arrived.
But I can't ditch opportunities because of her. She doesn't own me.
And I think she just wants to convert me anyway. Thats why she chose to be my girlfriend - to convince me to join her in jesusland. Which is actually kind of ironic, cause it means that jesus is at least partly responsible for getting me my first girlfriend. Lol. Oh well, he shouldn't have told her not to fuck.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Saweeep - 12-11-2014
Why did you tell "rich girl" that you were a virgin??
You are missing out on low hanging fruit here!
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Days of Broken Arrows - 12-11-2014
Quote: (12-11-2014 06:56 AM)thegreenman Wrote:
Update 12/5 (and maybe the final post on this thread):
Well guys, I'm happy to report that my love/sex life has finally begun. The situation I was in when I wrote the previous updates no longer exists.
I am now fully confident in my ability to attract women, and to get physical with them.
This is due to three big factors:
-a girlfriend
-Thailand
-being pursued and lavished (and offered sex) by a hot rich chick, and debating the very awesome dilemma of what to do when two chicks are into you at the same time
Lets start with part 1
Part 1: The Girlfriend
Just a few days after posting my semi-suicidal, quasi-religiously-themed previous update, I met a girl who now considers herself my girlfriend.
I was browsing a corner store in a nearby village, looking at a random assortment of indigenous carvings, Buddha-figurines, vintage copies of the "little red book", and other random artifacts that looked as though they had survived the cultural revolution buried in someone's backyard, when I noticed some very sexy looking beercap openers, carved into the shape of scantily clad women. Seeing how cheap they were, I began envisioning a business plan if importing them to the US in bulk, and selling them there.
When I tried to ask the shopkeeper if she could get me 100 of them, I ran into communication difficulties. Luckily there was a Chinese girl in the shop who spoke English, overheard our (attempt at a) conversation, and offered to translate.
Although the business idea fizzled out, the translator chick began talking to me and asking me questions about myself. It turned out that we both liked to go hiking on the same forest path, and so we set up an insta-date - and headed for the hills.
On the way she dropped the C-bomb: she's a Christian. And she likes going to the woods to pray, so that no one can hear her. "Ok", I thought. No harm in that... I hung out with mormons all summer - I can handle it.
But what I was in for really stretched my comfort zone... in more ways than one.
On the one hand, she immediately started touching me, and when I reciprocated, she was totally cool with it. Within an hour, we were cuddling on the hillside, her head resting on my chest. It was the most sustained physical contact I had had with a girl in... in... hmmm... a long long time, and was more than I was used to.
And the other reason why it took me out of my comfort zone is because while she was laying on top of me, she was staring up at the sky, shouting, tears streaming down her face, and talking in a language that at first seemed like Chinese, but actually turned out to be "tongues".
Ooooooo...... kkkkkkkkk.........
Apparently it was no special occasion - she does it almost every day.
This presented me with the dilemma of pretending to think she's totally sane, in order to keep hanging out with her. I've also had to endure getting the bible read to me, listening to her shout verses in the bathroom for up to 45 minutes at a time (in Mandarin, Cantonese, and glossolalia-ese) and having to put on the act like I think her religion makes sense.
Yet my patience was rewarded, and I got myself my first girlfriend.
She followed me around, took care of me, and gave me the chance to get comfortable being in close proximity with a girl for extended periods of time, with repeated and often sustained touch, without the pressure of having to be a dancing monkey to retain interest. I got over my fear of comfort-oriented, "PG" rated touch.
And then... I went to Thailand.
Part 2: Thailand (and Laos)
Being on a visa that only allows 60-day periods, I had to do a "run" to a neighboring country by Oct 29 at the latest. I picked Thailand, and took the highly scenic, overland route that passes through northern Laos.
Laos has perhaps the least modernized, most pristine, "primitive" hill tribe cultures in the world, outside of Africa, Papua, and the Amazon. Despite only intending to pass through for one day, I ended up staying for a week, cutting my time in Thailand by half. I just had to - the hill tribes are so fascinating - they're so normal. I observed that the farther you travel out of town, and the less modern infrastructure you have, the happier the people look. When you get to the villages that are off of the road grid, and only accessible by foot, the people are just constantly smiling. The people washing their clothes in the river have more light shining in their eyes than the 'fortunate' people who have washing machines. The people with no TVs or radios spend their evenings talking and laughing with eachother throughout the village - and you can hear them from a long ways off. One evening, I perched myself on a hilltop overlooking a village, and just listened to the distant ambience of laughter, the normal evening sounds of people not chained down by television.
The modern cultural narrative that we are better off than our grass-hut-dwelling ancestors, I had always doubted. But after Laos, I feel ready to abandon it completely. From what I can tell, all of the labors of the Greeks, Romans, and everyone after them, has been for nought. The world is worse off because of our heroic accomplishments and genius inventions. How can we claim to "benefit" from anything invented over the last 5,000 years, if the hill tribes are happy while they don't even have the fuckin wheel?
Ok now that I've pissed off all of my readers and shown that I really am a troll after all, lets continue to the pivotal event:
..my menage-a-Thai.
I spent a week in Thailand, and I didn't take advantage of the 'massage' industry until the final night.
To make a long story short, I had a kind of threesome with one girl handjobbing me while I made out with the other. Having two girls in bed with me, both of them hot, and actually making it all the way to orgasm like this... did something. Something inside of me clicked.
From that moment on, I felt like a sexual being again. The memory of a gratifying orgasm is now stored in my neural wiring. Now I can refer back to this experience, whenever my dopamine system needs convincing that there does in fact exist in the world something called "reward".
It's also made me more confident. It's not so big of a deal to touch a girl now. I feel like I can do it, and it's not such a big deal.
And it's this new confidence that I believe has led me to part 3...
Part 3: Being propositioned by a rich hottie
To make a long story short, after I came back from Thailand (Nov15), the school gave me a new student for one-on-one lessons.
Within a week, she cancelled her classes, called me up, met me at an upscale restaurant, bought me lunch, and handed me an envelope with hundreds of dollars in it. "2000 yuan for 20 classes", she said. Ok. Wow. How can I say no to that?
This chick is pretty darn hot, in that petite little Chinese sorta way, very wealthy (she bought me a $100 jacket like it was pocket change), and lives with a ex-husband that she divorced but keeps around as an employee of her business and to raise their daughter.
She put me in the driver's seat of her SUV and told me to drive anywhere I want, thus commencing my first time behind the wheel of a four-wheeled vehicle in a foreign
country. We went to an interesting local indigenous cultural site at the foot of the mountain that's in the pictures I posted earlier in this thread.
After two days of making me her English-teacher-cum-driver, and "wining and dining" me at fancy restaurants, the subject of massage came up. I told her I'm good at massage, and gave her a sample. She liked the sample, and offered to get a room in a 5-star hotel so I can give her a full body one!
Read that last sentence again.
I wasn't sure what to do.
So she made it even clearer: she said "we can get a room and have sex."
She explicitly said it.
But I wasn't sure.
Why? Because I have a girlfriend! Well, a girl who calls herself my girlfriend. I don't know if I actually want to stay with her. (See why below)
And so began the most awesome problem I had ever had thus far in my life.
I don't know what to do. This is uncharted waters for me. But I won't bug you for advice. This is my thing to figure out. At least I'm in the game now. I might be a rookie, but at least I have access to the practice field.
Ok well if you feel like you have something to say, if you're really keeping up with my saga, here's some more info:
My girlfriend (lets call her Christian Girl) and I really don't match. She believes in judeo-christianism, which is a ridiculous belief system. It wouldn't be so bad if she wasn't so rigid about it - but she's absolutely close-minded. She won't even consider any ideas that aren't in the bible. She thinks yoga is evil! And buddhism too! And when I try to explain that they're not evil - and that if jesus and buddha were in the same room they'd probably be friends -she shuts down the conversation and tells me I'm "attacking her" and that she's a "delicate flower" and that she wants me to only "protect" her, not "attack" her.
Powerful mind games, I think.
Oh, and she's asked me to marry her!! On several occasions.
She said "god" gave her a vision, ten years ago, of who her husband would be - and that I match the description.
I've tried to tell her that i dont agree with all of her belief system. I even told her that I need to experience sexuality, and that if she's unwilling to address that part of me, (she's not willing to let even one drop of sexuality enter our space, and insists that her spiritual/emotional love should be enough, and that i would realize this if i "came to god"), I would have to seek it with someone else.
This really set her off. She threatened to never speak to me again, "forever and ever", unless I promised to have "only one girlfriend".
Meanwhile, or rather the day before this happened, was when the other girl (lets call her Rich Girl) propositioned me for sex. Since I hadn't had the "conversation" with Christian Girl yet, I decided not to go all the way with Rich Girl - instead I decided to compromise, and still explore a little bit - so I pulled over and we made out in her backseat. During this experience I felt really crappy inside, because I supposedly had a girlfriend. I didn't enjoy it. I don't really know what the term "girlfriend" even means, but Christian Girl definitely considered herself to have exclusive rights over me at that point. As I found out later when she threatened to never speak to me again.
While I was deciding whether to make this promise to her, I got a text from Rich Girl...
... saying basically that since I'm a virgin, and I don't know what I'm doing, she doesn't think it's a good idea to have sex with me.
Wtf?
So I was like, ok, maybe I should stick with Christian girl for now.
But after all this happened, (it happened about 3 weeks ago, November 22/23rd-ish) I regret not going all the way with Rich Girl. I think I should have just accepted her offer, gone to the hotel with her, and fucked. One time woulda been enough - instead I pussyfooted and "compromised" with a stupid backseat makeout like a fucking highschooler.
I'm growing to resent Christian Girl for causing me to miss this opportunity. I'm getting less and less patient with her. It's a fucking three-way relationship: me, and her, and a 2000-year-old zombie. If she can have jesus as her "husband" with me also as her husband, then why can't I have two wives?
It seems that would only be fair.
I think my time of exploring christianity is coming to a close. If you recall from the original post, I joined the mormon church last summer, mostly out of hatred for my family and feminists. But I was kiiiiiinda into it. I was like ok, as long as I'm hanging out with them, I'll give their jesus a chance.
But not now. Now I've seen firsthand how Christianity represses people and prevents them from having sex. I didn't have sex with EITHER girl. Not with the rich one because of the christian one, and not with that one because of her religion prohibiting it.
Anyway, marrying her is out of the question. I cant marry someone who thinks everything is evil if not contained within one book. "Open-minded" has always been on my list of qualities I need in a mate.
Open minded - willing to consider new ideas even if they conflict with present ideas
An open communicator - willing to listen to me speak my truth, even if she doesnt agree with it, and always willing to have a conversation, rather than letting things boil in silence
She does NOT meet those criteria.
But she's super devoted, and would probably make a great wife for whoever winds up with her. She's an almost perfect match for what the people on ROK consider good wife material.
I can't help but wonder, am I throwing something away?
But then again, ALL of my friends warn me that it would be madness to commit to her; at the very least, it would be insane to do so right now.
In any case, it was the happy-ending Thai massage that turned me from a bitter person into an optimistic person - the christian girlfriend just made the sexlessness a little more bearable, but it was the Thai chick who HEALED me.
So I'm taking this to mean that what I need is SEXUAL and SENSUAL, much more so than spiritual, and that even if jesus himself were to descend out of the clouds and tell me "I love you child", it wouldn't help, because it's not what I need. I need sexuality and sensuality.
And since Christian Girl is not willing to address those needs (unless I sign away the rest of my life to her), I've decided that I'm going to LJBF her.
Some of the more conservative ROK'ers will probably call me an idiot, but oh well.
I love her, as a friend. And I'm thankful for her affection, and for giving me the chance to "warm up" on physically touching girls before the key moment in Thailand, and for keeping me company until that time arrived.
But I can't ditch opportunities because of her. She doesn't own me.
And I think she just wants to convert me anyway. Thats why she chose to be my girlfriend - to convince me to join her in jesusland. Which is actually kind of ironic, cause it means that jesus is at least partly responsible for getting me my first girlfriend. Lol. Oh well, he shouldn't have told her not to fuck.
Congrats on getting some action. Christianity is no more BS than any other made-up religion, IMO. Just one point of contention here:
"I'm growing to resent Christian Girl for causing me to miss this opportunity."
She didn't cause that. You did -- because of your own conscience and/or self-consciousness left over from your upbringing. You almost never get second chances in life when it comes to sex being offered, but if there is a way to get back into Rich Girl's good graces, why not try it?
Men have had mistresses throughout the ages. You'll be another one.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Simeon_Strangelight - 12-11-2014
Quote: (12-11-2014 07:31 AM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:
Congrats on getting some action. Christianity is no more BS than any other made-up religion, IMO. Just one point of contention here:
"I'm growing to resent Christian Girl for causing me to miss this opportunity."
She didn't cause that. You did -- because of your own conscience and/or self-consciousness left over from your upbringing. You almost never get second chances in life when it comes to sex being offered, but if there is a way to get back into Rich Girl's good graces, why not try it?
Men have had mistresses throughout the ages. You'll be another one.
I agree. She may be Christian, but most Europeans are Christian and it means nothing. She rather sounds a bit crazy and almost borderline personality disorder. If you talk even with so-called religious girls in Europe, they never mention the bible or Jesus unless you ask them. It's basically like Jews who only think religion when there is a bar mitzvah or a wedding around.
You likely botched that deal with the rich woman. I guess she is in her 30s and from what I've heard being divorced and over 28 - even with a child - means that she will likely not re-marry with any Chinese man. So she wants to have fun and chose you for fucking.
My advice is to re-initiate the contact with her - ask her out, invite her to a hotel and say you would like to share a great bottle of wine you got. You can share it in her hotel room.
As far as tying yourself to the crazy Christian girl - you will likely rue the day.
So go fuck the rich woman and then later move to SEA - Philippines in some remote regions where hardly any Westerner is to be found. But frankly all this lack of sex is making you crazy and you should get it out of your system ASAP.
At least it looks as if you are making progress, so congrats on that.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Wayout - 12-11-2014
OP...you should keep a journal of your life! Then publish it on Amazon! It is hilarious to read about your adventures and though process! I would probably pay 10 bucks for an e-book.
When I think my life is shitty - I find this and everything becomes ten times better!
![[Image: smile.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Cyclone - 12-11-2014
Damn dude. I have just re-checked this topic and you went from suicidal to being in a hilariously better position than 90% of the men in USA. Haha.
IMO your best bet is to re-try with the rich girl. You should NOT have let the fact that you have a girlfriend stop you - shes not there watching you, so for all intents you deserve it. Just back off of rich girl for a while, send a teasing text a week or so later, and get back into the groove. Hopefully you can get away with telling her that you were just joking about being a virgin.. but you may have been acting the part.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Truth Teller - 12-11-2014
Congratulations. Mormonism is a cult, so I can understand your revulsion to it.
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Dalaran1991 - 12-11-2014
![[Image: clap2.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/clap2.gif)
So, game finally works.
Congratulations man. Sure must feel great to almost transform your love life.
Serves as great inspiration for other guys out there. I am particularly impressed how you made it through everything at 5"0, and here I am always secretly bitching about my height.
Keep this thread as reminder of a chapter long gone in your life and start posting new threads on your progress
Why Hasn't Game Worked? - Cobra - 12-11-2014
![[Image: mindblown.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/mindblown.gif)