Miles and Points for Players - Printable Version
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Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-09-2014
Hello everyone, I thought I’d drop my first data sheet on something I know a good amount about. It’s not a destination, but a method of transportation that just might take your game to the next level, it's a little long but I think it's worth it for the traveling player.
I started in the miles and points game 18 months ago and I haven’t looked back. In that time I’ve applied and been approved for almost 20 credit cards and earned over 1,000,000 points and miles and I’m still going.
What is the points and miles game?
Points and miles are the currencies of hotels, airlines, cruises, and membership clubs that allow their members to take free flights have free nights, and get comped. All of the major airlines, hotels, and car rental companies have them. The goal of the miles and points player to is acquire the points at as low of a cost per point as possible, and then use them for the most value possible. i.e. staying at the Park Hyatt Paris Vendome for as little as $10 a night when the room regularly goes for nearly $1000 (granted, this redemption is only achievable one time over a two night stay).
How is this done?
First you need a great credit score; anything above 720 should be sufficient to get you going, though anything above 750 and you should be able to hit the ground running. This is because most of the great credit card bonus offers are limited and even targeted to high credit score potential borrowers. You also need stable source of income and limited to none outstanding credit card debt. This is because, of your credit scores components, debt to credit ratio is one of the most important in not only determining your credit score, but determining how much credit a bank is willing to give you. Lastly, you need a US address, because almost all of the bonuses worth going for are based in America.
There are a couple of different ways to think through your strategy for obtaining points: 1) specific next trip; 2) open ended future options. When I started this game I went with option 2 since I didn’t know where I wanted to go, how I wanted to get there, or where I wanted to stay; so I acquired a lot of points. My first round of credit card applications got me nearly 600,000 points, mostly in Hilton which aren’t nearly as valuable now.
Example trip: New York City New Years 2013
2 nights at Holiday Inn Express Midtown Manhattan – 40,000 IHG Rewards points (~$400 in savings)
4 nights at Conrad Manhattan with free breakfast – 170,000 Hilton points (~$2,400 in savings)
For one trip to New York which I’d never seen before (and before I really invested in changing myself with game and the red pill) I stayed in great locations (the Conrad is an awesome property) and explored one of the great cities of the world, for essentially nothing.
In general, you can do a round of credit card applications every 3-4 months depending on your credit score, ability to meet the minimum spending requirements on the cards (or your ability and inclination to manufacture spending, more on that later). You’re going to want to very your applications between banks so as not to go to the well too many times too often with the same institution, though some are stricter than others (Barclay’s doesn’t like too many apps over a 9-12 month period, Citi won’t give you multiple personal cards on the same app day, spread them 60 -90 days apart, Chase has a top end credit limit so you can move credit around or sacrifice older cards to get new ones, BofA is a joke and can and will give you the same card multiple times).
What is Manufactured Spending?
Under normal circumstances, you would limited to meeting a spending requirement with your normal spending or time shifted spending (buying things in the future now to meet the minimum spend on a credit card). However, with manufactured spending, you can “spend” money while not actually incurring the huge debts the spending implies. Under this scenario, you need a few things: A place to buy debit gift cards (the ones with a PIN, stay with Visa, they’re all over and easier to use), a Wal-Mart or another store that lets you buy a money order with a debit card, and/or a Bluebird card from America Express (similar process as described below, but you tell the cashier you want load your bluebird card for $499.99 ($500 loads trip an internal control that requires paperwork)). The first method is the most straight forward; buy a gift card (usually in $500 denominations to keep your fees down), assign the gift card a PIN (depending on the type of card you’re using), and buy a money order from Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart charges $.70 per money order, so you’ll buy a $499.30 money order and be on your way. If you’ve followed these instructions, you can now put that $499.30 in your bank account and pay off your card (you’ll need to come up with the other $5.65 but on $60,000 in manufactured spending a year, it’s only about $720). Multiply this process as long as you’re comfortable and you have compliant Wal-Mart employees since it is against Wal-Mart policy to sell money orders on debit gift cards.
How does this help me?
I will readily admit that I am not at the level of game that the vast majority of contributing members of this community are, but from what I have learned and absorbed, this community likes options and logistics. Points and miles are another tool that helps achieve those ends. My personal example of a trip I’m taking in July of this year is below:
Over the month of July I will be in Istanbul, Madrid, Pamplona, Barcelona, Prague, Budapest, and Bangkok. I ‘m flying business class on Turkish (LAX-IST), SWISS (IST-ZRH-BKK), and EVA Airways (BKK-TPE-LAX) for 120,000 United miles and $110. My intra-European flights cost another 40,000 United miles and $140 (IST-MAD, BCN-MUC-PRG, PRG-ZRH-BUD, BUD-IST). All the flights together cost nearly $17,000 and I paid 160,000 miles and $250 for tickets that will let me sleep, relax, and drink in style on the international flights; that’s the power of miles and points. In Prague, Istanbul, and Budapest, I’m staying in hotels in the heart of the city for free on Club Carlson points, in Bangkok I’m going to buy nights but my Arrival points will cancel out the cost there, and the train between Pamplona and Barcelona will be covered the same way. It’s my first time out of the country and I’m doing it in a way that I didn’t think possible before, and to top it all off, in each of the cities I’m staying I’ll be in hostels the first 1-2 nights with hotels overlapping night 2 to give me options on where I end up and who I end up with; in the middle of the city’s nightlife.
TL;DR Miles and Points requires good credit, a way to meet a minimum spending requirement for the bonus, and a US address to get the best offers. Manufactured Spending requires a compliant Wal-Mart and Wal-Mart employee but is very scalable. Points offers access to business class and first class flights that might otherwise be unobtainable to the average, non G-Manifesto, player; they also offer opportunities for multiple free coach flights for the quantity player looking to move around often internationally. I’m more than willing to expand even more on this as it’s a hobby of mine; there are certain point’s currencies that are more valuable than others depending on where you want to go or what your goals are (ex Boston to Dublin for 25,000 miles in coach or 50,000 in business roundtrip with British Airways Avios), I can help point you in the right direction in most cases.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-09-2014
Here's a few websites worth reading on how to get the most out of miles and points:
boardingarea.com/onemileatatime/
thepointsguy.com
boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/
travelisfree.com
Awardwallet is great for tracking your miles and points across nearly every program in the world. This is my code for 6 months of the premium service: free-hfzyes
Miles and Points for Players - zatara - 05-10-2014
Really interesting stuff, thanks.
I'm always jealous of the mileage offers Americans have open to them through credit cards. They're much rarer this side of the pond so I've had to do most of my mileage collection by actually going on flights. You can still clock up some decent mileage (and upgrades) this way though. It really surprises me when people who have a regular international commute to their home country, or who just love to travel, don't bother to collect FF miles. Such a waste!
Miles and Points for Players - booshala - 05-10-2014
Nice overview of the miles and points game, OP. I've been doing this for 4-5 years now and have racked up over 7 million miles and points since then. It really is a great way to see the world on the cheap - it's really sad to see the devaluations going on in the industry, but I guess that can't be helped.
I actually run a consulting service that teaches people which cards to apply for and how to meet minimum spends.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-10-2014
Quote: (05-10-2014 11:07 AM)booshala Wrote:
Nice overview of the miles and points game, OP. I've been doing this for 4-5 years now and have racked up over 7 million miles and points since then. It really is a great way to see the world on the cheap - it's really sad to see the devaluations going on in the industry, but I guess that can't be helped.
I actually run a consulting service that teaches people which cards to apply for and how to meet minimum spends.
That's great. I'm good but I haven't been doing it for long but I picked up the basics, and some of the advanced pieces quickly. So far, with all the resources on this site and others, game is going the same way. The devaluations in the industry are killer, but the Hilton and United massacre last year led me to book my super trip, and ultimately led me to this site and the red pill lifestyle; so i suppose I have miles and points to thank for the me I'm becoming.
Miles and Points for Players - Global Entry - 05-11-2014
You can share a code on AwardWallet (which i use, non premium) with another user?
Quote: (05-09-2014 04:04 PM)HungWeiLo Wrote:
Here's a few websites worth reading on how to get the most out of miles and points:
boardingarea.com/onemileatatime/
thepointsguy.com
boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/
travelisfree.com
Awardwallet is great for tracking your miles and points across nearly every program in the world. This is my code for 6 months of the premium service: free-hfzyes
Miles and Points for Players - rishboy77 - 05-11-2014
I usually pay for most of airfare and accommodations on points for the last 10 years where possible.
Best for me Starwood SPG .... worst Marriott.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 07:24 AM)G_global Wrote:Yes, G_global, on the left hand side of the main balances screen there is an option to "Upgrade using a Coupon" from there, enter my code and you should get the premium version for 6 months. Basically it lets you see unlimited expiration dates and advanced information on the accounts you enter, without having to go to the rewards currency website itself. that code is only good ten times though, so if they run out, post your code so others can take advantage.
You can share a code on AwardWallet (which i use, non premium) with another user?
Quote: (05-09-2014 04:04 PM)HungWeiLo Wrote:
Here's a few websites worth reading on how to get the most out of miles and points:
boardingarea.com/onemileatatime/
thepointsguy.com
boardingarea.com/frequentmiler/
travelisfree.com
Awardwallet is great for tracking your miles and points across nearly every program in the world. This is my code for 6 months of the premium service: free-hfzyes
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 07:55 AM)rishboy77 Wrote:Agree, I'm building up a balance to trade them for a Lufthansa First Class or Emirates First Class award, depending on where my next vacation destination direction is. My personal favorite right now though is Ultimate Rewards because they're easy to acquire, and transfer to some good, but not great, partners, like Korean
I usually pay for most of airfare and accommodations on points for the last 10 years where possible.
Best for me Starwood SPG .... worst Marriott.
Miles and Points for Players - Menace - 05-11-2014
Does balance transfer and paying it off count as spending? I'm guessing yes.
Miles and Points for Players - Blunt - 05-11-2014
How did you learn how to properly spend your miles though? I've racked up a good bit of these miles but I have a feeling they set up traps to get you to blow your miles in an inefficient manner.
Are miles better suited for international flights or domestic?
Miles and Points for Players - speakeasy - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 01:01 PM)Menace Wrote:
Does balance transfer and paying it off count as spending? I'm guessing yes.
I've recently just got started in points hacking. I haven't seen a card yet that gives you points for balance transfers.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 01:01 PM)Menace Wrote:
Does balance transfer and paying it off count as spending? I'm guessing yes.
Quote:speakeasy Wrote:
I've recently just got started in points hacking. I haven't seen a card yet that gives you points for balance transfers.
In general no, balance transfers don't count towards minimum spending. However, there is usually an offer from US Airways (through Barclays US) that gives you a mile per dollar on balance transfers, up to $10,000. The catch is that there's usually a fee associated with transferring the balance.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 01:33 PM)Blunt Wrote:
How did you learn how to properly spend your miles though? I've racked up a good bit of these miles but I have a feeling they set up traps to get you to blow your miles in an inefficient manner.
Are miles better suited for international flights or domestic?
I researched the websites I listed in my second post in this thread, in additional to Flyertalk, and MilePoint which are frequent flyer communities and points and mile communities respectively. The question of value really comes with currency. Certain points are more valuable due to their network.
For example, Hilton has 3000+ hotels in it's chain and are found in just about every city worth traveling in if you NEED a room, but only a small sub-set of their hotels like Conrad, Waldorf-Astoria, and their Millenium brands are the hotels you want to look for if you want to get the most value for your points.
In the points and miles community, the highest end flights and hotels are known as aspirational. That is, they are the flights and hotels that may normally be priced out of the reach of the average person, but through points and miles they become attainable.
To your question specifically, the most advantageous uses of miles for flights are for international flights, and within that area, for international premium class flights. When I booked my flights for the trip I'm taking in July, I could buy an economy ticket for about $2,000 for all my flights. With points, I got a $17,000 ticket with better sleeping options, faster boarding, better food, and free top shelf alcohol.
There is a caveat to this advice on international flights as the best use of miles, and that is British Airways Avios. It's a distance based currency so the longer the flight the more miles it costs. But for shorter flights, the costs in miles are much lower (9,000 miles round trip for a flight less than 600 miles away (LAX-SFO, LAX-LAS, JFK-YUL) versus 25,000 miles round trip for most regular programs, and perhaps more for short international flights).
The one thing you won't escape is fuel surcharges and airport taxes and fees. For this reason, even you have BA Avios, you don't want to use them to actually fly to London, fly from Boston to Dublin on Aer Lingus instead, it'll save you $500-1000 in taxes and fees.
Miles and Points for Players - Global Entry - 05-11-2014
This is a little off point, but is there a way to aggregate pre-existing miles on a network such as Star Alliance for the purpose of booking travel. I have miles on EVA and United and Thai, as I hadn't realized a year and a half ago that EVA and Thai were affiliated with United. I'd like to aggregate those miles for the purpose of booking a ticket. If they're all under one airline (United) I can use them on any affiliated airline including Singapore
![[Image: banana.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/banana.gif)
Presumably I could do the same by aggregating them on EVA or Singapore or Thai. But when they are fragmented in this way (I won't allow this to happen again) I cannot figure out how to make best use of them. Have the same issue between AA, Cathay and BA (though I figured it out and the vast majority of the miles are on BA now, except BA doesn't seem to let you book on the other airlines in its network so easily) and to a lesser degree, between KA and Delta.
Any advice? Or is there a pay option to transfer these miles? If so, I cannot find it.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Unfortunately, there's no (easy) way to aggregate miles from different airlines into one currency regardless of their alliance affiliation. In theory, you can use a site like points.com to buy and sell points from your account, but the prices are never in your favor. Depending on what your balances are in each currency, if you're close to a free flight domestically (since they're the cheapest points wise) I would consider crediting future flights to your orphan points until you have a free flight OR consider them abandoned, and start crediting to a single currency. Another option to consider is to build a balance in SPG (Starwood hotels) points since they transfer to just about everybody, but you get your best transfer rate when you transfer in multiples of 20,000 since they give you an extra 5,000 miles when you do.
If you choose the single currency route, I would recommend Alaska (since they're generally considered a 4th alliance to themselves as they partner with airlines from across all of the other alliances), American Airlines (Oneworld has some of the nicest upper end airlines out there), or United (even though they're partner premium award chart was eviscerated in the last devaluation, they still fly their own metal to more locations than just about everyone, so their coach and business class award tickets are not unreasonable).
BA is a PITA to book on anything other than AA. You pretty much need to use AA's or Quantas' website to look for the flights on OW carriers you want and then call BA to book the award.
Avoid Delta's SkyPesos like the plague (or a pro in BKK).
Miles and Points for Players - TheBulldozer - 05-11-2014
I love to fly. Explore. Discover. You’re probably reading this forum because you do as well.
I had detailed in the past on how to make the most of your flying experience, and generally speaking it works. I virtually always end up with an exit row seat, next to an unoccupied seat, or if I’m feeling dashing and a bit devious I’ll cause some sort of seat malfunction so I can change my seat to a better one.
Despite all this wonderful advice, there is nothing quite like flying first class or business class on a trans-continental route. No amount of game will get you a full beginning to end first class or business class experience unless you pay for it.
But do a quick search on Kayak, and you’ll quickly realize that you can buy a small car for the price of a ten hour flight in a premium cabin.
So how have I figured out how to fly in business and first class cabins on two round trips in the past year for a fraction of the cost?
I will provide you with practical, easy to follow actionable advice that can turn a major transcontinental flight into a truly world class experience.
One note: This advice is what works for me. I will agree there are much more complex ways to do the same things I do, paying even less for tickets. However, I feel comfortable with my ROI on the price I pay for flights and time I spend researching/acquiring miles.
The simple goal is to accumulate significant amounts of airline miles to subsequently use to book ‘award tickets’ on a specific airline or one of its partners.
Each airline and alliance has their own set of specific rules for booking awards tickets, which in some cases creates a huge opportunity to fly in a first class or business class cabin for mere pennies on the dollar.
The absolute key to executing this is to identify the route(s) you plan to fly and diligently research what airline/alliance provides the best value for using miles.
If you cannot execute this step effectively, which requires ~8-10 hours of research for a novice, then this is probably not for you.
I’ll provide you with an example of how I decided whose miles I should accumulate and later how I went about accumulating a significant amount of those miles in a very short amount of time:
I’ve recently accepted a job working in an Asian city that does not have direct service from the Eastern US. This job will require moderate regional travel, oftentimes to Hong Kong. Additionally, I will likely fly 4-6x a year round trip trans-pacifically.
I asked myself:
1. What airlines have service at both my US airport and my Asia airport? I certainly don’t want to fly multiple airlines because my miles will not go as far or have unnecessary connections.
I identified Cathay Pacific, Qatar Air, Aeroflot, All Nippon Air, Asiana, EVA, Finnair, Japan Air, Korean Air, Singapore Air, and Delta.
2. What airlines fly the long way to Asia(through Europe)? I don’t want to spend 35 hours flying.
I can eliminate Qatar, Aeroflot, Finnair, and Singapore as a result.
3. What airline/alliance has the best mileage redemption rates for my desired trip(s)?
This certainly took me the longest time because I searched every airline’s mileage chart in addition to their ‘alliance mileage chart’(a chart that shows you how many miles you need to book an awards flight on one of that airline’s alliance partners).
I can quickly eliminate any SkyTeam airlines, because booking SkyTeam rewards is notoriously difficult with many blackout dates. Moreover, they offer a terrible redemption value. Goodbye to Delta and Korean.
I’m now left with Cathay Pacific, All Nippon, EVA and Japan air.
All Nippon, Asiana, and EVA are part of the Star Alliance. JAL and CX are part of Oneworld.
Understanding this I went to look at the rewards chart for travel to South Asia for Star and Oneworld.
A quick glance will indicate that flying business/first class to Asia from North America is significantly fewer miles on Oneworld than it is on Star.
My decision is now easy. My goal is to accumulate as many miles as possible for an airline that partners with Oneworld. Since miles can be booked across one alliance, all I have to do is now accumulate miles for an airline within Oneworld. For example, I can accumulate American Airlines miles but still book with Cathay Pacific, Qantas, British Airways, Japan Airways, and many other airlines using those same AA miles.
In a future post I will detail what credit cards I’ve signed up for and how I accumulate miles in a way that fits my budget.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-11-2014
Quote: (05-11-2014 10:04 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:
I love to fly. Explore. Discover. You’re probably reading this forum because you do as well.
I had detailed in the past on how to make the most of your flying experience, and generally speaking it works. I virtually always end up with an exit row seat, next to an unoccupied seat, or if I’m feeling dashing and a bit devious I’ll cause some sort of seat malfunction so I can change my seat to a better one.
Despite all this wonderful advice, there is nothing quite like flying first class or business class on a trans-continental route. No amount of game will get you a full beginning to end first class or business class experience unless you pay for it.
But do a quick search on Kayak, and you’ll quickly realize that you can buy a small car for the price of a ten hour flight in a premium cabin.
So how have I figured out how to fly in business and first class cabins on two round trips in the past year for a fraction of the cost?
I will provide you with practical, easy to follow actionable advice that can turn a major transcontinental flight into a truly world class experience.
One note: This advice is what works for me. I will agree there are much more complex ways to do the same things I do, paying even less for tickets. However, I feel comfortable with my ROI on the price I pay for flights and time I spend researching/acquiring miles.
The simple goal is to accumulate significant amounts of airline miles to subsequently use to book ‘award tickets’ on a specific airline or one of its partners.
Each airline and alliance has their own set of specific rules for booking awards tickets, which in some cases creates a huge opportunity to fly in a first class or business class cabin for mere pennies on the dollar.
The absolute key to executing this is to identify the route(s) you plan to fly and diligently research what airline/alliance provides the best value for using miles.
If you cannot execute this step effectively, which requires ~8-10 hours of research for a novice, then this is probably not for you.
I’ll provide you with an example of how I decided whose miles I should accumulate and later how I went about accumulating a significant amount of those miles in a very short amount of time:
I’ve recently accepted a job working in an Asian city that does not have direct service from the Eastern US. This job will require moderate regional travel, oftentimes to Hong Kong. Additionally, I will likely fly 4-6x a year round trip trans-pacifically.
I asked myself:
1. What airlines have service at both my US airport and my Asia airport? I certainly don’t want to fly multiple airlines because my miles will not go as far or have unnecessary connections.
I identified Cathay Pacific, Qatar Air, Aeroflot, All Nippon Air, Asiana, EVA, Finnair, Japan Air, Korean Air, Singapore Air, and Delta.
2. What airlines fly the long way to Asia(through Europe)? I don’t want to spend 35 hours flying.
I can eliminate Qatar, Aeroflot, Finnair, and Singapore as a result.
3. What airline/alliance has the best mileage redemption rates for my desired trip(s)?
This certainly took me the longest time because I searched every airline’s mileage chart in addition to their ‘alliance mileage chart’(a chart that shows you how many miles you need to book an awards flight on one of that airline’s alliance partners).
I can quickly eliminate any SkyTeam airlines, because booking SkyTeam rewards is notoriously difficult with many blackout dates. Moreover, they offer a terrible redemption value. Goodbye to Delta and Korean.
I’m now left with Cathay Pacific, All Nippon, EVA and Japan air.
All Nippon, Asiana, and EVA are part of the Star Alliance. JAL and CX are part of Oneworld.
Understanding this I went to look at the rewards chart for travel to South Asia for Star and Oneworld.
A quick glance will indicate that flying business/first class to Asia from North America is significantly fewer miles on Oneworld than it is on Star.
My decision is now easy. My goal is to accumulate as many miles as possible for an airline that partners with Oneworld. Since miles can be booked across one alliance, all I have to do is now accumulate miles for an airline within Oneworld. For example, I can accumulate American Airlines miles but still book with Cathay Pacific, Qantas, British Airways, Japan Airways, and many other airlines using those same AA miles.
In a future post I will detail what credit cards I’ve signed up for and how I accumulate miles in a way that fits my budget.
@MaleDefined: Great post. I think it would be worthwhile to note that different airlines make more sense and less sense based on where you're traveling from. Korean for instance has great availability from LAX and even runs a fifth freedom route to Sao Paolo from LAX and they have an excellent first class product that I'm intending on trying sooner rather than later. Additionally, Ultimate Rewards points are also an easier way to acquire SKYPASS (Korean Air) miles. I'll also list the cards I've applied for and hopefully with your list, members will get an idea of the size of the offers out there to be had.
Below is the list of cards I've applied for and received, and the bonuses I earned:
BofA Hawaiian Airlines - 35,000 (traded for 70,000 Hilton)
Bank of Hawaii Hawaiian Airlines - 35,000 (traded for 70,000 Hilton)
Citi Hilton Hhonors x2 - 80,000 (40,000 each time)
Chase Freedom - 10,000
Chase British Airways - 100,000 (50,000 in first year, 50,000 in second)
Chase Sapphire Preferred MasterCard - 40,000
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa - 40,000
Chase IHG Rewards - 80,000
Chase United - 50,000
Chase United Business - 50,000
American Express Hilton - 50,000
American Express SPG - 25,000
Barclays US Air - 35,000
Barclays Lufthansa - 50,000
Barclays Arrival - 40,000
US Bank Club Carlson - 85,000 (+40,000 each renewal)
US Bank Club Carson Business - 85,000 (+40,000 each renewal)
I think there's been some others, but I'm not sure. There's about 1,000,000 in just bonuses on that list, and another several hundred thousand in manufactured spending. The important ones from this list, as I think MaleDefined will agree, are the Chase Freedom and Sapphire (they work as a team because the Freedom's points are transferable to Ultimate Rewards when you have the Sapphire), the AmEx SPG (the points transfer to just about every airline currency, and personally the two Club Carlson cards because the signature benefit is the last night free on award reservations and the 40,000 points you get on each card when you renew.
Miles and Points for Players - Global Entry - 05-12-2014
you guys are both stars. I agree with Male-Defined's approach to a T. Unfortunately, I didnt come to my senses soon enough (and i also didn't even collect miles years ago on BA when I used to do NY - London regularly in biz class, but that's as they say, spilt milk). I've recently been aggregating primarily on Oneworld, though its a little less desirable as KA flies into vegas, which saves me a transfer in Los Angeles, typically.
I think my approach is going to be to use my delta miles, if possible, to book hotels and other flights, or just domestically. My (many) international flights, well, I've been dropping them on my BA account, so there is an incentive with the tiering to keep going higher so I can get increased status and the perks of having higher level (which applies across OneWorld, just not on BA).
What kind of credit rating was required to get accepted for all of those cards, HWL?
Quote: (05-11-2014 11:17 PM)HungWeiLo Wrote:
Quote: (05-11-2014 10:04 PM)MaleDefined Wrote:
I love to fly. Explore. Discover. You’re probably reading this forum because you do as well.
I had detailed in the past on how to make the most of your flying experience, and generally speaking it works. I virtually always end up with an exit row seat, next to an unoccupied seat, or if I’m feeling dashing and a bit devious I’ll cause some sort of seat malfunction so I can change my seat to a better one.
Despite all this wonderful advice, there is nothing quite like flying first class or business class on a trans-continental route. No amount of game will get you a full beginning to end first class or business class experience unless you pay for it.
But do a quick search on Kayak, and you’ll quickly realize that you can buy a small car for the price of a ten hour flight in a premium cabin.
So how have I figured out how to fly in business and first class cabins on two round trips in the past year for a fraction of the cost?
I will provide you with practical, easy to follow actionable advice that can turn a major transcontinental flight into a truly world class experience.
One note: This advice is what works for me. I will agree there are much more complex ways to do the same things I do, paying even less for tickets. However, I feel comfortable with my ROI on the price I pay for flights and time I spend researching/acquiring miles.
The simple goal is to accumulate significant amounts of airline miles to subsequently use to book ‘award tickets’ on a specific airline or one of its partners.
Each airline and alliance has their own set of specific rules for booking awards tickets, which in some cases creates a huge opportunity to fly in a first class or business class cabin for mere pennies on the dollar.
The absolute key to executing this is to identify the route(s) you plan to fly and diligently research what airline/alliance provides the best value for using miles.
If you cannot execute this step effectively, which requires ~8-10 hours of research for a novice, then this is probably not for you.
I’ll provide you with an example of how I decided whose miles I should accumulate and later how I went about accumulating a significant amount of those miles in a very short amount of time:
I’ve recently accepted a job working in an Asian city that does not have direct service from the Eastern US. This job will require moderate regional travel, oftentimes to Hong Kong. Additionally, I will likely fly 4-6x a year round trip trans-pacifically.
I asked myself:
1. What airlines have service at both my US airport and my Asia airport? I certainly don’t want to fly multiple airlines because my miles will not go as far or have unnecessary connections.
I identified Cathay Pacific, Qatar Air, Aeroflot, All Nippon Air, Asiana, EVA, Finnair, Japan Air, Korean Air, Singapore Air, and Delta.
2. What airlines fly the long way to Asia(through Europe)? I don’t want to spend 35 hours flying.
I can eliminate Qatar, Aeroflot, Finnair, and Singapore as a result.
3. What airline/alliance has the best mileage redemption rates for my desired trip(s)?
This certainly took me the longest time because I searched every airline’s mileage chart in addition to their ‘alliance mileage chart’(a chart that shows you how many miles you need to book an awards flight on one of that airline’s alliance partners).
I can quickly eliminate any SkyTeam airlines, because booking SkyTeam rewards is notoriously difficult with many blackout dates. Moreover, they offer a terrible redemption value. Goodbye to Delta and Korean.
I’m now left with Cathay Pacific, All Nippon, EVA and Japan air.
All Nippon, Asiana, and EVA are part of the Star Alliance. JAL and CX are part of Oneworld.
Understanding this I went to look at the rewards chart for travel to South Asia for Star and Oneworld.
A quick glance will indicate that flying business/first class to Asia from North America is significantly fewer miles on Oneworld than it is on Star.
My decision is now easy. My goal is to accumulate as many miles as possible for an airline that partners with Oneworld. Since miles can be booked across one alliance, all I have to do is now accumulate miles for an airline within Oneworld. For example, I can accumulate American Airlines miles but still book with Cathay Pacific, Qantas, British Airways, Japan Airways, and many other airlines using those same AA miles.
In a future post I will detail what credit cards I’ve signed up for and how I accumulate miles in a way that fits my budget.
@MaleDefined: Great post. I think it would be worthwhile to note that different airlines make more sense and less sense based on where you're traveling from. Korean for instance has great availability from LAX and even runs a fifth freedom route to Sao Paolo from LAX and they have an excellent first class product that I'm intending on trying sooner rather than later. Additionally, Ultimate Rewards points are also an easier way to acquire SKYPASS (Korean Air) miles. I'll also list the cards I've applied for and hopefully with your list, members will get an idea of the size of the offers out there to be had.
Below is the list of cards I've applied for and received, and the bonuses I earned:
BofA Hawaiian Airlines - 35,000 (traded for 70,000 Hilton)
Bank of Hawaii Hawaiian Airlines - 35,000 (traded for 70,000 Hilton)
Citi Hilton Hhonors x2 - 80,000 (40,000 each time)
Chase Freedom - 10,000
Chase British Airways - 100,000 (50,000 in first year, 50,000 in second)
Chase Sapphire Preferred MasterCard - 40,000
Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa - 40,000
Chase IHG Rewards - 80,000
Chase United - 50,000
Chase United Business - 50,000
American Express Hilton - 50,000
American Express SPG - 25,000
Barclays US Air - 35,000
Barclays Lufthansa - 50,000
Barclays Arrival - 40,000
US Bank Club Carlson - 85,000 (+40,000 each renewal)
US Bank Club Carson Business - 85,000 (+40,000 each renewal)
I think there's been some others, but I'm not sure. There's about 1,000,000 in just bonuses on that list, and another several hundred thousand in manufactured spending. The important ones from this list, as I think MaleDefined will agree, are the Chase Freedom and Sapphire (they work as a team because the Freedom's points are transferable to Ultimate Rewards when you have the Sapphire), the AmEx SPG (the points transfer to just about every airline currency, and personally the two Club Carlson cards because the signature benefit is the last night free on award reservations and the 40,000 points you get on each card when you renew.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-12-2014
G, all true statements. Remember though, BA has a great currency it's just limited in its best uses. I understand if you're sort of boxed in with them given all the flying it sounds like you do, but the longer the flight and the higher the class of service, the more punitive their awards get. In general and I my experience, you should be fine with anything above 720. 740+ should guarantee your acceptance at almost every bank. After that, you run into total credit limits within one institution but you're usually able to mitigate that by transferring credit to the new card; and after that, it's total applications that show up on their credit pull (which depends on which bureau they pull).
Miles and Points for Players - heavy - 05-12-2014
I signed up for the Barclay Arrival card in January. I got the 40,000 bonus points, I'm around 56k now. The only travel I've done was staying at the Intercontinental in downtown Chicago. It doesn't show up as a qualifying redeemable purchase. (ideally you spend $ on air or hotel and after the fact you redeem the points for money toward your balance)
I would like to fly somewhere soon, but since I've never used credit card or airline miles, I have a concern, probably unwarranted, that my travel will not be qualifying. Any comments are appreciated.
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-12-2014
I just got my Arrival card as well and I just booked the Radisson Suites in Bangkok so i'm waiting for it show up. There shouldn't be any reason why an InterContinetal does not show up as a qualifying purchase unless it's been 90 days from the charge since that is all the time you have to offset a qualifying purchase. I called Barclays and the rep told me that if my train and hotels dont come up to give them a call and they'd make it right so I'd give Barclays' a call and have them investigate. Going forward, I wouldn't be too concerned about offsetting travel costs with Arrival points as their phone support seems pretty responsive and the card/service gets great reviews in the points and miles community
Miles and Points for Players - Basil Ransom - 05-12-2014
How are you guys manufacturing spending? Should this be discussed via PM instead?
Miles and Points for Players - HungWeiLo - 05-12-2014
Hit me with a PM and I can try and explain it a little more in depth. There's a few options out there:
Amazon Payments being one, though they can can be strict on your use and shut you down fast if you abuse it. There's some good information on the net about AP carousels, but they require some cooperation from friends or family to get going and run properly.
There's the gift card churn through Wal-Mart which I personally prefer but it's time consuming (I explained it in the OP).
Then there's the PayPal Cash option but PayPal has been known to be even quicker on the account blocking button than AP. However, if you ramp up slowly and use the account for other than "payments", I've been told the results are good.
Lastly, there's the buy and sell option; it's the highest risk and highest reward. It's also only borderline manufactured spending because it's more of a mini-business. In that scenario, you buy large quantities of product through shopping portals that offer big bonuses per dollar and then resell the product through Amazon, eBay, or another avenue for as close to breakeven or profit as possible, pocketing HUGE points in the process. For more information on this option check out thepointsguy.com or boardingarea.com/frequentmiler. Both have good info on the buy and sell game but note, it takes a good capital investment upfront with no guarantee of success so tread carefully and follow their advice
Miles and Points for Players - BTman - 05-12-2014
Does applying for a lot of credit cards hurt your credit score?