Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Printable Version

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Cattle Rustler - 07-20-2013

There's been a few threads on people getting robbed or the gringo killed in medellin. Some say "give them what they want" and some say "fight them".

In some places it's illegal for foreigners or natives to pack heat, so this brings it to the next thing.

Is packing a knife a good thing when traveling for self defense?
Too much of a hassle or perfect when someone tries to pull sketchy shit?

Personally, a switchblade is perfect for me. Not exactly a gun but better than having nothing and it's legal in most places. Not to mention that you can place it in your luggage when traveling.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - iknowexactly - 07-20-2013

plastic design "keychain" that has a short blunt blade. might help if you need it but won't set off police or thug radar.

also better cause non-lethal. want to explain "self-defense" in spanish or Ukrainian?

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - OGNorCal707 - 07-20-2013

I don't know, if you're going to pull out a knife you better be ready to use it, and I don't know if stabbing someone in a foreign country, especially a 3rd world country is a good idea, way too many variables of things that could go wrong that could end up fucking you. The only time I would pull a knife is if someone pulled one on me first, a lot of guys wouldn't want to get into a knife fight, so this could potentially prevent you from getting robbed or victimized. That said if someone tries to strong arm rob me, assuming it's not more than 2 guys, I would take my chances and fight them, if someone pulls a gun I'd just except my fate and hand over my money or valuables. All in all, it's probably not worth killing or getting killed over, or risking jail time and a foreign countries legal system.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Cattle Rustler - 07-20-2013

Quote: (07-20-2013 06:48 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

plastic design "keychain" that has a short blunt blade. might help if you need it but won't set off police or thug radar.

also better cause non-lethal. want to explain "self-defense" in spanish or Ukrainian?

That seems like a good tool, it's not exactly something that will get you locked up but good enough to use on the spot.

Luckily enough, I can explain self defense in Spanish. Although that won't help unless I pay a bribe.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Cattle Rustler - 07-20-2013

Quote: (07-20-2013 06:49 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I don't know, if you're going to pull out a knife you better be ready to use it, and I don't know if stabbing someone in a foreign country, especially a 3rd world country is a good idea, way too many variables of things that could go wrong that could end up fucking you. The only time I would pull a knife is if someone pulled one on me first, a lot of guys wouldn't want to get into a knife fight, so this could potentially prevent you from getting robbed or victimized. That said if someone tries to strong arm rob me, assuming it's not more than 2 guys, I would take my chances and fight them, if someone pulls a gun I'd just except my fate and hand over my money or valuables. All in all, it's probably not worth killing or getting killed over, or risking jail time and a foreign countries legal system.

That's the tricky part, how to avoid being attacked with your own tool. The time I'll one would be after I've been robbed to get them off guard. As you said though, when you pull it out you better use it or else the mugger will know you're bluffing.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - speakeasy - 07-20-2013

Get a small can of pepper spray. It's about as big as your thumb, yet it's highly compressed so it can spray a stream over 15ft. I carried that with me when I was touring South America. I wouldn't use it against a guy with gun, but if it's a dude with a knife or you're about to get jumped by a group of guys I'd use it in a second. Handy for any aggressive street dogs too.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Wreckingball - 07-20-2013

Quote: (07-20-2013 07:13 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

Get a small can of pepper spray. It's about as big as your thumb, yet it's highly compressed so it can spray a stream over 15ft. I carried that with me when I was touring South America. I wouldn't use it against a guy with gun, but if it's a dude with a knife or you're about to get jumped by a group of guys I'd use it in a second. Handy for any aggressive street dogs too.

Word of advice:
This is not legal in a lot of European countries. OR it is legal in lower concentrations.
If you plan on carrying something be sure to know how to use it.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Seadog - 07-22-2013

I guessed you were American by the title and you did not dissapoint

I would never even entertain that idea. As others said you better be prepared and able to use it. As soon as you pull any sort of lethal weapon the stakes have just gone way, way up. To potentially dying. Unless you're very good with knives, odds are you'll cross someone sooner or later who is better. What do you have on you that is potentially worth dying over? Even if you have the advantage, what if he sstill wants to fight? Are you really gonna slash a guy? Then potentially deal with all the fall-out that entails? In many places, as a foreigner you're automatically in the wrong. What if he's connected? What if he runs off then shows up with 4 friends, also with knives? The stakes are too high, and odds far too unpredictable.

The other thing, (and this goes for the paranoid gun crazy in the US) how much crime is really happening out there? Crime rates are about the lowest ever, and to me it seems like way more hassle than its worth (metal detectors at museums, forgetting to take it out of your pocket at airport etc) for a situation that for me at least, has never come up in almost 30 years.

The way I feel about this, is that if it gets to this point where you're staring at someone with a weapon who's trying to rob you, you've probably already made some mistakes and made yourself vulnerable/a target(walking alone at night, bad part of town, got drunk and mouthy with someone). Now isn't the time to fix them. With me, my goal would be to end the situation as quickly as possible, regardless the cost.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - billbudsocket - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 06:40 AM)Seadog Wrote:  

I guessed you were American by the title and you did not dissapoint

I would never even entertain that idea. As others said you better be prepared and able to use it. As soon as you pull any sort of lethal weapon the stakes have just gone way, way up. To potentially dying. Unless you're very good with knives, odds are you'll cross someone sooner or later who is better. What do you have on you that is potentially worth dying over? Even if you have the advantage, what if he sstill wants to fight? Are you really gonna slash a guy? Then potentially deal with all the fall-out that entails? In many places, as a foreigner you're automatically in the wrong. What if he's connected? What if he runs off then shows up with 4 friends, also with knives? The stakes are too high, and odds far too unpredictable.

The other thing, (and this goes for the paranoid gun crazy in the US) how much crime is really happening out there? Crime rates are about the lowest ever, and to me it seems like way more hassle than its worth (metal detectors at museums, forgetting to take it out of your pocket at airport etc) for a situation that for me at least, has never come up in almost 30 years.

The way I feel about this, is that if it gets to this point where you're staring at someone with a weapon who's trying to rob you, you've probably already made some mistakes and made yourself vulnerable/a target(walking alone at night, bad part of town, got drunk and mouthy with someone). Now isn't the time to fix them. With me, my goal would be to end the situation as quickly as possible, regardless the cost.

I carry everywhere I go it doesn't matter what country I'm in - I'd rather have legal troubles than end up dead. You sound like you must live in a nanny state, you have that mindset. I'm personally not gonna be a victim.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Acute Angle - 07-22-2013

Carry a decoy wallet with old credit cards etc inside. When challenged, hold it up so the guy can see it then throw it behind him. Whilst he's distracted, leg it.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - bacon - 07-22-2013

I used to carry traditional pepper spray but I got it taken away a few times from bouncers in Mexico so I bought the pen version which is great for consealing your pepper spray. So far I have only used it on a stray dog that was trying to attack me.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - thegmanifesto - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 08:01 AM)Acute Angle Wrote:  

Carry a decoy wallet with old credit cards etc inside. When challenged, hold it up so the guy can see it then throw it behind him. Whilst he's distracted, leg it.

I hear people mention this all the time on the Internet.

But, does anyone really do this?

Or had real world success with it?

First of all it is a pain in the *ss to carry around two wallets waiting around for a time you get jacked. I mean you might carry around an extra wallet for years.

So people are carrying two wallets, a cell phone, cigarettes, lighters, gum, extra stuff and not wearing Suits? Are people rolling out cargo pants? I am joking here, but are people really carrying two wallets? Sounds like a pain.

And you have to do it all the time to get in the habit. If not, you are liable to forget your "decoy wallet" on a night you might need one.

Second, the "throw it behind him" move sounds good on paper or on a forum, but you are liable to get yourself shot by a nervous trigger man.

Again, anyone actually do this or have had in worked in the real world?

Quote: (07-22-2013 08:17 AM)bacon Wrote:  

I used to carry traditional pepper spray but I got it taken away a few times from bouncers in Mexico so I bought the pen version which is great for consealing your pepper spray. So far I have only used it on a stray dog that was trying to attack me.

How did it work?

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - bacon - 07-22-2013

@ g
The dog (medium - large size mut) was running at me barking crazy, growling so I took out the spray and shot it in his direction. I hear a wimper as it starts to breathe in the pepper and it runs in another direction.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Celtic - 07-22-2013

How would you get the pepper spray on the airline and past customs in the country you're going to? I thought you couldn't bring sprays like that on a plane.

I wouldn't use a knife or a gun when traveling- foreign courts, especially in the third world are not going to give your self defense claim a fair hearing if it is a big mean gringo vs. a poor local. I'd rather lose my wallet than spend time in a foreign prison.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - thegmanifesto - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 08:59 AM)Celtic Wrote:  

How would you get the pepper spray on the airline and past customs in the country you're going to? I thought you couldn't bring sprays like that on a plane.

That "pen pepper spray" seems like it would be easy to conceal on checked baggage.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - rudebwoy - 07-22-2013

This is such an absurd idea that I can't believe you are actually entertaining this idea.

Let's be honest, outside of North America there is a different world out there with different people. Now you are an American guy visiting Colombia for example, I am sure those dudes would take tremendous delight in taking "your" weapon and cutting your throat without thinking. Just because you are an American!!!

In "civilized" UK I heard of an American guy that was cleaning up with the ladies, a bunch of local dudes jumped him.

Yes it is great to be an American when you are travelling (I am Canadian) but you are travelling to someone's elses domain. The world is full of haters. Do you really think the local guys like seeing some slick American with white perfect teeth, nice clothes and money having easy access to their women.

Be safe, be humble and you have WAY more to lose than these guys.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Acute Angle - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 08:47 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

I hear people mention this all the time on the Internet.

But, does anyone really do this?

Or had real world success with it?

First of all it is a pain in the *ss to carry around two wallets waiting around for a time you get jacked. I mean you might carry around an extra wallet for years.

So people are carrying two wallets, a cell phone, cigarettes, lighters, gum, extra stuff and not wearing Suits? Are people rolling out cargo pants? I am joking here, but are people really carrying two wallets? Sounds like a pain.

And you have to do it all the time to get in the habit. If not, you are liable to forget your "decoy wallet" on a night you might need one.

Second, the "throw it behind him" move sounds good on paper or on a forum, but you are liable to get yourself shot by a nervous trigger man.

TBH I've never had to try it. I tend not to be fucked with, not because I look like a badass but because I don't look like a victim.

I don't carry a real wallet, just the decoy (and not always). Any dough and a single credit card are tucked inside the waistband of my trousers in a special concealed compartment.
Phone, check. Cigs, lighter, gum - don't need that shit.
What extra stuff? I like to walk the streets looking light.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - zatara - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 07:56 AM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I carry everywhere I go it doesn't matter what country I'm in - I'd rather have legal troubles than end up dead. You sound like you must live in a nanny state, you have that mindset. I'm personally not gonna be a victim.

Studies show you are far, far more likely to have any weapon you pull against a mugger used against you than to your advantage. They have less to lose, more experience in these situations, and (in most places outside of Europe/the U.S.) a court system that will find in their favour even if you do physically best them. Theres also the massive amounts of hassle you'll get from cops or immigration if youre found 'carrying'.

You'd do far more to ensure your safety by ensuring youre fit enough to outrun any attacker. Its rather hard to get mugged when you've no problem doing a 100m sprint in 12 seconds and a decent speed 1k/2km run after that. Or, even better, just be smart enough to not put yourself in that situation to begin with - walking around late at night in dodgy areas by yourself etc.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Giovonny - 07-22-2013

Unless you are well trained and experienced, whatever weapon you pull out will likely be used against you.

The best defense is to avoid putting yourself in dangerous situations.

The best self defense training is to do 800 meter sprints.

If you can sprint a half a mile, you will out run most attackers and make it to a safe place.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Seadog - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 07:56 AM)billbudsocket Wrote:  

I carry everywhere I go it doesn't matter what country I'm in - I'd rather have legal troubles than end up dead. You sound like you must live in a nanny state, you have that mindset. I'm personally not gonna be a victim.

Do you really think there are people out there just aching to kill you? This is the paranoia I speak of. If the situation is fight to the death then yes I agree, but that situation is basically non existent. That is why when random murders do happen (eg Washington shooter a few years back etc) it makes national headlines. You literally have more likelihood of winning the lottery then getting to an unexpected situation where the only outcomes are kill or be killed. 99% of the time, they want your money and that's it. And *that* situation isn't very common in itself.

Same thing with the decoy wallet. When I go out (especially at night) I carry essentials with me, nothing I'd not be willing to lose. Carrying around a second wallet, potentially getting hurt, dealing with the legal consequences, all that, is really not worth it for $100 and a few phone calls to cancel credit cards.

The other thing is that I hear a lot of 'good ideas' both here and on other travel sites. The simple fact that things like decoy wallet and all that stuff isn't field tested should speak volumes about how likely this sort of thing is.

Any crimes I've heard of while travelling where crimes of opportunity. (Bag left on beach while swimming, money belt left on bed, locket left unlocked, wallet in big pocket on cargo pants snatched at train station. I've never met anyone who was held up while travelling.

The best defense in my opinion would be martial arts, easy to conceal and hide, can deal with basic threats like knives, and can physically dominate if needed 1 on 1, or outrun.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - DoctaWho - 07-22-2013

I hate to break it to you but that's a bad idea. Not only do you put yourself at more risk trying to fight against a robber, but if you carry a weapon and kill a local at best you'll get a fair trial and at worst you'll rot with no trial or be killed for revenge. Is that fate really worth what you would have to give up? Also, in many situations most robbers don't want to hurt you. There are tons of examples of robberies in Latin America where the victim was given taxi/bus money and sent home after their valuables were taken. Also if you've ever seen a knife fight then you would know that it's not as simple as it seems. There's also the possibility that when you fight back some random guy might hit you in the head just because you are a foreigner. The only time you should ever fight back is if they want to take you to another place or if they try to violate you.

I'll close with a story a cop told me. A country boy got in an argument with a Mexican at a local bar. They proceeded to do the drunk wrestling thing until it was broken up. The Mexican grabbed a bottle and told the country boy he was going to kill him. The country boy takes a knife from his pocket (it's common for people to carry one where I live after all it is a useful tool) and says bring it. Before things can go further the cops come and take them both to jail. During processing they notice a ton of tattoos and scars on the Mexican's arms and torso. Turned out he was a Mexican gangster who had spent more than his share of time knife fighting. My point is that most of us think that a weapon gives us the upper hand, but most of us have no idea how to use that weapon in a stressful situation and pulling one can make a bad situation worse.

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - GameTheory - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 08:17 AM)bacon Wrote:  

I used to carry traditional pepper spray but I got it taken away a few times from bouncers in Mexico so I bought the pen version which is great for consealing your pepper spray. So far I have only used it on a stray dog that was trying to attack me.

do you know if those pepper spray pens can be re-loaded once they are used ???

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Cattle Rustler - 07-22-2013

Interesting things going on in this thread.

I'll agree with most of you, don't carry a knife, but rather practice on running and carry OC spray. Shanking someone is not worth the time.

Sometimes you just get used to carrying something with you, thanks ccw for giving me a blue pill and thanks to you guys for giving me the red pill.

Does someone have any "mt/bjj/mma helped me in X sketchy situation" stories?

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - username - 07-22-2013

The pepper spray pen looks like the best option, it is enough to give you a little self defense but it can't be used against you, by itself, to get you killed. Any idea the cost or where to buy one?

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Packing "semi-heat" when traveling, Yay or Nay? - Cattle Rustler - 07-22-2013

Quote: (07-22-2013 11:24 PM)username Wrote:  

The pepper spray pen looks like the best option, it is enough to give you a little self defense but it can't be used against you, by itself, to get you killed. Any idea the cost or where to buy one?

It depends where you buy it, I would say any Asian market or import store has it. Ditto for military surplus stores. Prices should be from $12-$30+ USD. It all depends on the quality.

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