Frame vs Game - Printable Version
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Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-02-2013
Before I knew anything about Game I was getting a lot of girls, more than I do now. So looking back what did I have back then that was doing this? I had something that's talked about a lot but very few really understand: I had a very good Frame. For whatever reason I had this unshakeable belief that I was entitled to hot girls, actually the very best girls, and I just acted accordingly. I never questioned this, regardless of how I looked in person.
Frame is your internal view and beliefs about yourself - as in Frame of mind.
The stronger your frame the more likely someone will accept it. Doesn't mean that everyone will but there will be a lot of women that will. Then I started learning about Game and for various reasons my Frame became weak. And guess what? My success rate fell.
The best Game cannot compensate for a weak Frame.
It has literally taken me years to rebuild my Frame and I am almost as good (~ 70%) as I was when I was younger and once again I am seeing the results. I am not saying that Game is not necessary or beneficial. What I am saying is that Game rest upon your Frame. To get the best results you need to combine the two BUT in my experience IF you have a strong enough Frame you almost don't need any Game.
As my Frame became stronger I found that women were the ones Gaming me. I just had to show up, express an interest, and don't fuck up too much (the Game part). The concept of Frame also applies to all other areas of your life.
Believing you are Entitled to something is 50% of getting it.
PS The thing that did the most damage to my Frame was buying into the American belief that you define yourself by what you do (your job) and the shit you own e.g. your car.
Frame vs Game - Mars - 06-03-2013
Quote: (06-02-2013 05:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:
The best Game cannot compensate for a weak Frame.
The concept of Frame also applies to all other areas of your life.
PS The thing that did the most damage to my Frame was buying into the American belief that you define yourself by what you do (your job) and the shit you own e.g. your car.
![[Image: black-preacher-meme-generator-preach-it-...846918.jpg]](http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/9de/dfc/b60/resized/black-preacher-meme-generator-preach-it-brother-84c7bf.jpg?1335846918.jpg)
Frame vs Game - Tuch - 06-05-2013
I like this. It definitely makes sense
Frame vs Game - MidniteSpecial - 06-05-2013
One of my nicknames is frame. We would kill it nomad holla at me if you ever in NY.
Frame vs Game - AneroidOcean - 06-05-2013
Quote: (06-02-2013 05:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:
Before I knew anything about Game I was getting a lot of girls, more than I do now. So looking back what did I have back then that was doing this? I had something that's talked about a lot but very few really understand: I had a very good Frame. For whatever reason I had this unshakeable belief that I was entitled to hot girls, actually the very best girls, and I just acted accordingly. I never questioned this, regardless of how I looked in person.
Frame is your internal view and beliefs about yourself - as in Frame of mind.
The stronger your frame the more likely someone will accept it. Doesn't mean that everyone will but there will be a lot of women that will. Then I started learning about Game and for various reasons my Frame became weak. And guess what? My success rate fell.
The best Game cannot compensate for a weak Frame.
It has literally taken me years to rebuild my Frame and I am almost as good (~ 70%) as I was when I was younger and once again I am seeing the results. I am not saying that Game is not necessary or beneficial. What I am saying is that Game rest upon your Frame. To get the best results you need to combine the two BUT in my experience IF you have a strong enough Frame you almost don't need any Game.
As my Frame became stronger I found that women were the ones Gaming me. I just had to show up, express an interest, and don't fuck up too much (the Game part). The concept of Frame also applies to all other areas of your life.
Believing you are Entitled to something is 50% of getting it.
PS The thing that did the most damage to my Frame was buying into the American belief that you define yourself by what you do (your job) and the shit you own e.g. your car.
I've seen you post about this before. I find it really interesting that you got a good amount of girls before you ever sought out game, and this is a great explanation for why. You had good access, logistics, and frame. All super key things.
Your signature says that everything in life is desire. I would say that it's all desire with ACTION.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-05-2013
Quote: (06-05-2013 07:30 PM)MidniteSpecial Wrote:
One of my nicknames is frame. We would kill it nomad holla at me if you ever in NY.
Thanks, same to you if you ever come down to Miami.
Frame vs Game - GenJx - 06-05-2013
nomad what separates frame from game? isnt frame a part of game? and how is frame different from confidence or what some people call 'inner game'?
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-05-2013
Quote: (06-05-2013 07:35 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:
I've seen you post about this before. I find it really interesting that you got a good amount of girls before you ever sought out game, and this is a great explanation for why. You had good access, logistics, and frame. All super key things.
Your signature says that everything in life is desire. I would say that it's all desire with ACTION.
Yes, I believe I have BUT I didn't have all of those things. I was young (16 - 24), I didn't have my own place, shitty car, not much money, etc. BUT I had two things I don't have a lot of now: Desire and Frame. With a strong enough desire and belief in yourself you can get some high quality women because you hit them on a level they can't defend against: their reptilian brain.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-05-2013
Quote: (06-05-2013 10:34 PM)GenJx Wrote:
nomad what separates frame from game? isnt frame a part of game? and how is frame different from confidence or what some people call 'inner game'?
Frame is the person you see when you look in the mirror. Your view of yourself. It's what gives you your self-esteem and self-worth. If you believe you have a high value then yes, you will have more confidence. Animals have the greatest Frames. For example, a dog never questions it's nature. If it feels like fucking your leg it will do exactly that in front of everyone. Now imagine being able to do that with a woman.
Game is your conscious interaction with women. It's the things you learn and decide to do or don't do. It's the pickup lines, 3-bounce strategy, not showing too much interest etc.
BUT if you have a strong enough Frame, like a rock star or dog, you can literally get away with doing just about anything. Women loves kids and animals because of their strong frame. A strong frame makes you genuine and authentic - qualities women love and respond to very well. When I was younger, I just did whatever I felt like when it came to girls, I never questioned what or why I did.
It was always the right thing to do SIMPLY because I believed it was - same with animals and kids. With this mentally you can't ever be needy and you automatically project the optimum personality that attracts women.
Frame vs Game - Que enspastic - 06-05-2013
the best frame is one you can back up with evidence. it's rock solid, you can't poke holes in it.
but the most impressive frames are the ones where you can't back it up, the delusional confidence that a lot of people carry in their rise to success, the frame that some will question but most will go along with thinking there must be something behind it which i don't know about. like obama going from relative political novice to president on the back of charisma and good marketing or di caprio's character in 'catch me if you can' that's based on a true story.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-05-2013
Quote: (06-05-2013 10:53 PM)Que enspastic Wrote:
the best frame is one you can back up with evidence. it's rock solid, you can't poke holes in it.
but the most impressive frames are the ones where you can't back it up, the delusional confidence that a lot of people carry in their rise to success, the frame that some will question but most will go along with thinking there must be something behind it which i don't know about. like obama going from relative political novice to president on the back of charisma and good marketing or di caprio's character in 'catch me if you can' that's based on a true story.
Very good explanation. Yes, the kind of Frame I am talking about is the delusional kind. The kind where it doesn't even occur to you that you need to back anything up.
Frame vs Game - Mage - 06-06-2013
Frame is why stupid kids get laid more than smart kids. Probably it is the reason dumb people keep reproducing.
A drunken and smelly bum has stronger frame then you. When you walk on a narrow sideway - the bum won't care about touching you and you will move aside while he walks straight. The street is his domain, not yours.
A lantern has an even stronger frame then a bum. But not if it is a russian bum.
Frame is why truth never wins in public arguments. A smart person who sees the world as it is will analyzie the opponents arguments and take pause to consider them. The dumb biased person will not give away his position for even an inch and will argue rapidly and mercilessly.
frame is an ugly thing and causes more harm then it does good. But it is too powerful for you to not use it.
Frame vs Game - Screwston - 06-11-2013
Confidence>Game
Is that what you mean Nomad??
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-11-2013
Frame creates confidence. It's how you think about yourself. It's the guy you see when you look in the mirror all alone and naked.
Frame vs Game - soup - 06-12-2013
I think an important question might be: "Too what extent does frame improve game, and too what extent does game improve frame?" Also, throw in a "how".
It sounds like you had a natural thing going and that the game techniques actually hurt that in the beginning.
I also think that you are essentially bringing up the "inner game" vs. "outer game" debate, which I believe has been touched on a lot here.
I think it is still an important question, but maybe so different for every guy that a general approach might be impossible to find.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-12-2013
Inner game is another word for Frame, yes. Here is another way of explaining Frame vs Game. You want to get into a club with tight door control. If you approach the door man as if you belong in the club then you have a much better chance of getting in - that's Frame. If you approach the door man and use your ability to talk you way in - that's Game. Getting in with Frame is a lot less work than getting in with Game - Frame is passive, Game is Active. Frame is what you think, Game is what you do. Frame influences your Game. Using the same Game with a different mindset can produce very different results. Naturally combining the two will give you the best results.
Different levels of women are just like clubs. Once you have gotten one of them it changes your Frame/inner game. Another women of the same class can sense that you have gotten women of their caliber before and that's makes it ok to associate with you. The problem with talking about Frame is that it's not something you can see. Frame and Game is a feedback loop. They are linked to each other. Getting good at one improves the other but only to a certain degree. I can have a rock solid Frame but still have relatively weak Game. If a guy has a strong Frame, he will be able to get away with not having good game more often than not. Of the two, inner game/frame is more difficult to acquire but it is also what will get you the highest Quality of women. Game on the other hand is easier to acquire and will get you the highest Quantity of women.
Frame vs Game - soup - 06-12-2013
Quote: (06-12-2013 12:38 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:
Inner game is another word for Frame, yes. Here is another way of explaining Frame vs Game. You want to get into a club with tight door control. If you approach the door man as if you belong in the club then you have a much better chance of getting in - that's Frame. If you approach the door man and use your ability to talk you way in - that's Game. Getting in with Frame is a lot less work than getting in with Game - Frame is passive, Game is Active. Frame is what you think, Game is what you do. Frame influences your Game. Using the same Game with a different mindset can produce very different results. Naturally combining the two will give you the best results.
Different levels of women are just like clubs. Once you have gotten one of them it changes your Frame/inner game. Another women of the same class can sense that you have gotten women of their caliber before and that's makes it ok to associate with you. The problem with talking about Frame is that it's not something you can see. Frame and Game is a feedback loop. They are linked to each other. Getting good at one improves the other but only to a certain degree. I can have a rock solid Frame but still have relatively weak Game. If a guy has a strong Frame, he will be able to get away with not having good game more often than not. Of the two, inner game/frame is more difficult to acquire but it is also what will get you the highest Quality of women. Game on the other hand is easier to acquire and will get you the highest Quantity of women.
I'd like to believe the second paragraph, but, in my experience, getting with a more attractive women doesn't automatically put you on a higher level.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-12-2013
No, it doesn't, it just means that you have been allowed into a club of that level before and thus will be more comfortable approaching the door of one again.
Frame vs Game - Kaizen - 06-12-2013
![[Image: potd.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/potd.gif)
Frame vs Game - travolta - 06-12-2013
Nomad77 - no offense or anything, but I think the only reason you're posting so many things about game theory is to get forum validation. I don't think that post about this type of stuff will help you get laid
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-12-2013
@travolta - No offense taken. Obviously, this is a forum and you are entitled to your opinion the same as the other members who may have a different opinion than you. Just read the previous comments. In all honesty, my validation do not come from this or any forum. The ONLY validation that matters to me is the quality (not the quantity) of women I get. I am no longer interested in getting laid. I've gotten laid enough. What I am interested in at this point in my life are quality relationships with quality women - so that is what I write about.
Besides, there are many threads on game specifics on here. You don't have to read my material if you don't feel it has any benefit. That's what a forum is all about: presenting information from different view points.
Frame vs Game - soup - 06-12-2013
Quote: (06-12-2013 03:38 PM)travolta Wrote:
Nomad77 - no offense or anything, but I think the only reason you're posting so many things about game theory is to get forum validation. I don't think that post about this type of stuff will help you get laid
I think it's important to understand how need validation can affect your game. I can be honest and say that I definitely feel more confident when I'm validated by those whose opinions and experience I care about.
And, I usually feel less confident when I don't get that validation (with regards to a specific endeavor).
Obviously, the real validation is the results. But, game is all about confidence, and when you are unsure of what you are doing, even when you are doing it correctly, a little validation from your peers can give a boost to your ego or bolster your confidence. Maybe just enough to make the bang happen or not in some situations.
Frame vs Game - Nomad77 - 06-12-2013
I agree, a little validation never hurts and certainly helps. Where the forum has helped me the most is just in knowing that there are other men that think like me out there and through it I have also met some really cool guys. Before, I felt pretty much alone, like some weirdo out in the regular world. I couldn't really relate to the guys around me when it came to women. It was like I was living on an alien planet.
Frame vs Game - OGNorCal707 - 06-12-2013
Quote: (06-12-2013 03:38 PM)travolta Wrote:
Nomad77 - no offense or anything, but I think the only reason you're posting so many things about game theory is to get forum validation. I don't think that post about this type of stuff will help you get laid
No offense to you, but how many solid posts have you dropped on the forum, I can't ever thinking once to myself "wow this guy travolta is dropping knowledge". Nomad77 as far as I'm concerned is one of the best posters in the game forum (which to me is one of the most valuable aspects of RVF), "everything else" is the most popular, but mostly a waste of time.
Now I'm not trying to sound like a Nomad groupie
![[Image: cheerleader.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/cheerleader.gif)
, LOL, but I think he is also one of the most under-repped members of this forum, whereas there are a lot of members who post funny stuff or have a great online personality that are highly repped, but rarely post anything with substance or value IMO.Furthermore yeah sometimes you get the sense that a certain poster is posting to get attention or validation, but it's not like Nomad is promoting a blog or anything like that, with some people you get the sense that posting on RVF is just a means to get more exposure to their blog or selling some sort of e-book.
Finally I think Nomad's posts will help people get laid, because it will change the way they think, and change the way they view game, and the way they behave. So much of improving in game is changing to have the proper mindsets.
Frame vs Game - soup - 06-12-2013
Quote: (06-12-2013 04:31 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:
I agree, a little validation never hurts and certainly helps. Where the forum has helped me the most is just in knowing that there are other men that think like me out there and through it I have also met some really cool guys. Before, I felt pretty much alone, like some weirdo out in the regular world. I couldn't really relate to the guys around me when it came to women. It was like I was living on an alien planet.
It's funny that you say that, because I feel more like a freak than an "Alpha male" or whatever.
I feel like an X-Man mutant outcast that is part of a secret society of pussy masters.
There is definitely something whacked of the "natural" order with our society if a not so big/tough guy like me gets the amount of pussy I've been getting recently while there are guys who are making a ton more money, or are more built than I am, who probably aren't getting anything like the numbers I've been getting.