KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Printable Version

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - tiggaling - 09-28-2012

jimukr104 Wrote:

"They do not have sex with strangers becasue they WANT sex, they want the love and romance that comes with it."

This is a key point. Western women are more prone to have "sex like men do", ala sex and the city - at least in their own justification for it. But in these countries where women are women, and maintain feminine values, love and romance are actually primary for them - not how big the guys dick is or whatever.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-28-2012

Between love and romance and hard cold cash most FSU women well prefer the latter.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Vacancier Permanent - 09-28-2012

Informative thread here. I learned a good deal about Ukrainian mentality and what is the best approach or game to slay them (Thanks Kamaki, Iknoweactly, Vorkuta and others who have dropped some true golden gems on Ukraine and Ukrainian lizards mentality). Good reports Alex, good luck to you and let us know how it goes. Btw, I couldn't see your pics as they were taken down. Anyways you could post them again for those of us who didn't follow this thread from the beginning? Spasiba!

P.S. Did anyone else got the feeling from reading his posts, that Alex, might be G's long lost brother (G, the 8 or 9 figure earner, or was it 10? rolling fully custom suited swooping models in the dopest places in the world while flying on Ryan Air and inquirying about hostels in the French Riviera - and Alex, the hedge fund manager from London who stays at a run down soviet apartment with broken washing machine and dressing like a backpacker...). Something smells fishy here...lol

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - The Duke - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-27-2012 05:50 PM)Wolverine Wrote:  

They view the U.S, Canada and Australia as being too far from their family and the mentality in these countries too detached from their own. They see white Europeans as sophisticated.

You make it sound like Ukrainians girls much prefer Western Europeans over Americans. This is the first I've heard this. Would be nice if you could explain your theory in more detail. Before you do, consider this.

America produces a lot of things Ukrainians use and consume -- computers, movies, McDonalds is big here . In America/Canada/Oz we speak English. English proficiency is comparatively low in Kharkiv, but still English is the most popular foreign language here.

I've met some girls and guys in Kharkiv with real exposure to America. That is, they've personally visited America or they have some relative or friend living there. These people in Kharkiv speak glowingly about America.

I agree they also have a very favorable opinion of Western/Northern Europe. But I didn't think that Ukrainians thought so much better of Western Europe than America.

As an American in Kharkiv, I don't get Rockstar treatment like I did in Peru ten years ago, but I get VIP treatment. Sounds like Alex is getting also getting VIP treatment, not Rockstar. When I say Rockstar, I mean getting action like Adam Sandler's character got in the movie Funny People.

Quote: (09-27-2012 10:21 PM)timmy21 Wrote:  

A univeristy I am closely associated with in my city, there are two very popular languages that many girls are just flocking to, and those two languages are Chinese and Turkish, these languages are very popular, and the girls who are studying these languages esp. Turkish are very very attractive and many of these girls spend their summer in Turkey and China; again, where I'm sitting, I just dont see this high regard for N/W euro, and i ve never see it since i ve been here, and it's not all that difficult for these girls to travel to N/W euro, through their univeristy, they do it all the time, big deal.

Yeah, I'm sure a subset of girls in Kharkiv have a thing for Turkish guys, but generally speaking, a majority of girls here don't. Everything else equal, a non-Turkish foreigner is going to do better than a Turkish guy.

I met a girl who was learning Chineese here in Kharkiv. I got the impression she was doing it mainly for work opportunties. I get the impression girls here would love to go to America or Western Europe but they feel like it's unrealistic to get a job there. They understand that getting a visa is very difficult.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-28-2012

Turks have access in Ukraine that is all.Kiev is only 1.5 hours from Istanbul by plane and there are several flights everyday.Some of them study in Ukraine but many conduct business and have actually a reason to be present.(turkish products are cheap and competitive in FSU markets).
Moreover the turkish state has immensely facilitated the visa from FSU to Turkey(it costs only 30$ paid in turkish airport) thus caring for the dick of its citizens.(ours cares only for gays).

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Blunt - 09-28-2012

I don't understand where all this sentiment that Europeans or Turks (really?) are favored over Americans in Ukraine. In my time there, I recognized that Dutch and British guys were there as well doing fine, but I never felt disadvantaged for being an American compared to them. Turks are a polarizing group, some girls are into it but a lot of them aren't as well.

People in this thread are acting like it is a zero-sum game or that because a Ukrainian girls expresses interest in visiting W. Europe it means less pussy for Americans.

You know which language I saw was trending on a language-exchange site for Ukr/Rus girls? Korean. The young girls are really into K-pop.

I guess we should all start emulating K-pop stars or be banished from the collective vagina of Ukraine.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-28-2012

The general distinction in FSU is:
1.FSU(considered low class place,rampant poverty,useless men)
2.Eastern Europe(considered sth similar,fishy with bad tendencies)
3.West(this includes all western Europe and Mediteranean countries.It is considered a very wealthy region where guys make on average more than 5000 euro per month(Ukrainian girls have illusions).Greece is lately viewed less and less positively due to constant news about crisis)
4.Turkey,Arab countries(most girls dislike the region due to men's mentality there and lack of freedom for women,however some of them like it especially for vaccations)
There is no girl who will say I reject US and prefer Western Europe and the opposite is also true.No girl will reject a western European guy for favor of American.The girls who are attracted to these categories of guys are the same.
Italy,Spain and Greece are considered by some girls to be different in the sense of not belonging to western Europe.
Let's say 20% of girls who like foreigners do not care if the foreigner is Western or Turk,Arab.40% do care but do not distinguish between Mediteraneans,western Europeans.40% distinguish between Mediteraneans and Western Europeans prefering the latter.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - rudebwoy - 09-28-2012

I recall people telling Roosh not to visit Ukraine because he is of turkish background,they made it seem like he would not get ANY pussy. Having just met up with Roosh, I asked him about Ukraine and he showed me pictures of the girls he dated there. They were stunning to say the least and on par if not better than what Alex has posted.
I will say being an American is a very high DHV in alot of places in Europe, even as a Canadian I will play that card because it is easier.
I am sure Ukranian girls would prefer to live the American dream, I also get the feeling alot of them are patriotic and do not want to be too far from home (family).

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-26-2012 05:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

I disagree guys. I'm not saying he has to be dressed "slick" but dressing a little more refined than a backpacker would probably at least make him stand out in a positive way. Right now I see nothing that makes him look more than average. I'm not a fashionista but some cool shoes, skinny jeans, a v neck and a badass jacket would be just as comfortable and he'd look good enough to walk into most places during the day. Her body language does say "I don't want people who see this photo to think we're together".

Quote: (09-27-2012 12:27 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I'm with you K-man,I'd rather bang three 7's then no 9's. However two points need mentioning:
Alex no doubt gets enough 7's back home.
He has said his intention was to find a 9 to take to Spain for a trip.

I respect that he's taken the harder road then targeting sevens which really are easy to get in Kiev. I'm bald,late thirties and knocked a tooth out a week before Kiev ( never had time to replace before trip ) and yet even in the centre of Kiev which is sex tourist central I number closed a couple of girls,kiss closed ( the one in the photos I posted ) and have her begging me to visit her in Odessa. So if I'm doing it with my bastardized Russian language skills then anyone who is white and from northern Europe will manage it. So good on him for going for the 9's.

On that point I would say that if you're intention was to grab a 9 to take to Spain at some point then Russia would have been a better option for you. Russians get visas easily most of the time as you'll know from the hordes that invade Spanish beaches every summer. And Moscow in my experience is easier then Kiev due in
part to the women being more liberal and westernized and there being less sex tourist stigmatization. A lot less.

As to your attire: don't take the comments to heart. I don't think people were hating on you personally because what you wore is probably fine for schlepping
about at home in. It's just that you are out trying to day game 9/10's but hindering your chances by being so sloppy. People were just surprised that you had not got that base covered. I don't necessarily agree with Greek in saying you have to dress like you are on business, however in a place where image is often more important then substance,you really should not be walking around in scruffy jeans,t-shirt and with a backpack on. That look whilst comfy,just screams tourist staying in a hostel. The image you are trying to give off is definitely not that if your aim is to bang up echelon women. I know you said you were caught unawares by the girl being ready early but still,by dressing like that you are missing possible opportunities. Personally I cannot stress enough how much image is important over there. I know full well you can dress like that and be a multi millionaire in the west,it's usual. But over there it doesn't work like that. How is a girl going to believe you'll take her to your penthouse on the beach in Spain if you dress like you're staying in a dormitory? Be overdressed rather then under dressed.
There again you're the one rotating models so it's not hurting you that badly!

Well we agree with the conversations being somewhat dull. I suppose that in part a lot of these girls have not travelled and are quite insular so it's hard to discuss certain topics or for then to have in depth opinions. However you said you brought a tear to the eye a couple of times of one girl when in comfort so you're getting on ok it seems.

Lastly,you are a hedge fund manager,have two places in Spain,have Saville Row hand made suits: why the fcuk are you staying in a place with a broken Soviet washing machine and intermittent electricity??!! Again,like your clothes,that's not going to entice some of these models into believing in your dream you are selling them that you would like to invite someone to Spain. No wonder you're not closing when they come back to yours. Those places are fine for me because I'm only bringing average girls back but you're ambitions are loftier then mine and an aspiring model in Kiev has a lot of local choice. Therefore get a pimped apartment next time,not ridiculously flash but something in a new build with mod cons at least.

I think you're doing very well for yourself,I doff my cap to your efforts. However I think your failure to close these models is because you've got a few chinks in your armor. Dress better and live in a better place and with the exception of language you will have all bases covered.

Good luck!

Just catching up on the Kiev thread and replying more or less in the order I see them.

Need to clear up some major misconceptions developing because its painting a wrong picture of me that makes me look like a troll, which is the last thing I wanted.

1) I am not G manifesto's long lost brother. I am not a multi millionaire and never said I was. I work in the hedge fund industry in a good technology position for a successful fund. I earn a good salary and my family is moderately wealthy. At 32 I am better off than most guys my age. Yes I could afford to buy a very modest apartment or two in Kiev but that kind of cash won't even get you into a private bank. All this is irrelevant to this Kiev thread because I am spending as little cash as possible and only mention I live in my flat on the mediteranean coast as a DHV on a D2/D3. And I think that is fair within the rules of game as its part of my value proposition.

I am sure there are several dudes on this board rocking more net worth than me.

2) I am not dating a harem of top models in Kiev. Please reread my posts as this does me a disservice - I am slogging it through a small number of higher quality girls because thats why I come to Kiev, but they are normal girls with normal lives. I posted photos so regulars could see what I'm dealing with and that i'm not an idiot braggart. My interest was in tactics specific to laying >8s in FSU capitals.

Truth be told I started this thread primarily for tips on the hot Kiev girl's mentality. Why physical escalation is often so slow...are they super traditional? do they expect expensive gifts...are the hottest ones plate spinning with various rich dudes to see which plate they take home... flowers? Chocolates? Do I go full beta on them? Do I go confident beta? Should I go alpha dominant russian boyfriend on them... So many questions.

I am dating 2 or 3 hotties and a couple others that are 7-8. Nothing amazing for two weeks in a city and knowing what you're doing. Pretty sure that Roosh was rocking similar quality and probably had a better close rate by concentrating on nightgame

Kiev is very nicely set up for a smooth British guy with BBC accent, who can splash cash as needed, expertly pipelines and has great attraction/comfort game. I spent over 40 hours pipelining - I doubt many here would put that investment in. Truth is my closing rate is disappointing because these girls need at least 4 dates and careful work in my opinion to get in the sack. More on this in the final update.

Point is the reason at my age (32) I have good disposable income IS EXACTLY BECAUSE I rent old soviet flats (albeit city center) and eat at Hazata Puta every day (student type buffet place in Kiev). The biggest cheap skates I have eaten with are some of the top Hedgies in London.

To give you some idea of rental costs in Kiev- My flat has cost me 390 euros after serious negotiation for 2 week stay. Nearly every other flat in the area is over 600 euros per 2 weeks. This is a basic shitty studio flat. Many of the flats being rented here are shithole compared to what we are used to in the west. I do not even have a wardrobe here, I hang everything on the coat stand. Pimped apartments in the center are going for 1200 + euros every 2 weeks, I won't drop that money for an apartment in which I only sleep and bang.

KIEV IS EXPENSIVE. Unbelievably so. My new pair of skinny jeans from zara (down two sizes, thanks kiev) were almost 3 times the cost in Spain. Many things except the staples are more expensive in Kiev than in Europe and the luxuries are far more expensive.

Totally agree on the clothes front - From losing so much weight here from skipping meals running around like a headless chicken chasing numbers and dates in the center, most of my clothes are too loose now. Luckily my date uniform was always tight and now fits great (tailored jacket, pocket square, tailored trousers and shirt, designer loafers).

When I walk in the street at night in my date uniform, I am convinced I will be mugged. I have seen literally no Kiev dudes dressed like me. Then again I don't frequent Kiev's few private gentlemen clubs. Again its all about learning from your errors and calibrating for the next visit.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - jimukr104 - 09-28-2012

Turkish guys do well in Ukraine. They are agressive and know how to assert themselves , almost as if they are local guys. Infact TBH they see mto act just like Russians and Ukrainians in thier swagger. I think the girls fall for it the same way. Thier dislike for turks, when they have it, is usually because they picture life in Turkey like muslim middle-east countries and think they will be dominated. However, one of the reasons they love t ovisit Turkey is the attention they get there. Turkish men are als o more likely to speak Russian than Americans and Euro's. Thier businesses are i n the community so language skills are needed. Also alot of Turks look like Italian or spanish guys. FSU girls love Italian guys or looks anyway. Italian sex tourists probably ruined thier own image no doubt.
Anymore details Alex? Sorry we hijacked the thread. Personally I do not care WHAT type they presently like, they change types every few years anyhow. I just wanted to squash the idea, as did Timmy, that these girls want to leave. The marriage agencies scam men int o believing this. Its mostly bullshit. I had mates wh o went int o that business. I myself could have been a partner. The 2 businesses expats always thought about opening was either marriage agencies or English schools. The marketing was aimed at brainwashing girls that they are better off in the west and should marry older guys. Most girls who signed up are not serious and 50k-100k participants is a very small % of thepopulation. LOL, agencies even buy lists from each other and normal girls photos are used without permission often.
Whens BANG Ukraine coming out Roosh? Its definitely a board game in Ukraine, problem is the pieces do not follow consistant rules. I also agree with the above poster, its not a zero-sum game. Thats beta thinking.
The below quote applies to Russian and Ukrainian GIRLS equally(basically they are the same if you minus the western village influence):
"Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." Winston Churchill

I find this quote sooo true.

P.S. is there an add on that checks for spelling mistakes in forum posts? I am kind of tired of making typing errors and some wise- ass who has a different opinion insults my typo's because they can't Win thier point. It be the same thing as me calling someone "fat and ugly" (you probably are, just kidding) because they counter my points, ideas or views. We all have a right to our views and ultimately will deferr to our experiences . Your experiences might be different. I am not going to stare you wrong. I am not your competitor, I'm already married. I also have my own source of pussy to tap into if I wanted to cheat( all married ukrainians do). Heck if I wanted to bullshit you( like a former member did about Lviv) I woudl tell you Odessa is awesome and Pussy is free there, infact its poosy paradise. Then i would offer you the opportunity t o rent out my empty 3 room Euroremont flat thats in a great area next to the beach clubs. I could clean house renting it out.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-28-2012

Quick word on Wolverine who I met in Kiev a day ago - legit RVFer, nice bloke, better built and handsomer than 90% of the dudes on this board and his game seems more natural than learned. Legit knowledge on FSU girl mentality and Kiev as he is part Ukrainian and speaks Russian perfectly. I can see him killing it here in Kiev with that combination if he lived here longer term and splashed the cash.

Short Kiev anecdote: Never invite another tiger to your dinner.

Wolf needs to read up on winging as most naturals do. I was in set with a 7/7.5 cutey (lovely girlfriend material) vibing very nicely in an underground bar near Kreshatic and wolf arrives as invited, and quite without realising I was in set with this chick (or he didn't have a clue about winging or he is always AMOG), cut across some of my sentences, switched to russian for periods of time with her and generally held court. LOL WTF!? I thought. Won't be making that mistake again.

Of course the intimate vibe I had worked hard to develop was fucked and its my own fault for inviting another player into my set without briefing him first. I just had too much going on at once to brief him before. I quickly moved the girl out before I bled too much value to chat in isolation with Wolf and met the girl again for a nice D2 today with long makeout.

After that Wolf and I hung for an hour or two and he gave me tremendous value on FSU babe mentality. Very generous of him.

Legit dude, superb alpha unreactive frame (I'm always absorbing elements to work on from other players) and enjoyed meeting him.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-28-2012

3) Not sure if Wolf didn't understand me correctly but I would say <50% of my dates are from online game. And the inordinate time spent on pipelining added to the variable nature of the goods once you actually meet them means I cannot reccommend online game in the FSU. Sure pipeline a couple of days before arriving, but when here hit the streets and clubs, the quality is infinitely higher. My top girls were met on the streets. My more DTF girls were from pipelining dating sites (and thus preselected for horniness)

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - jimukr104 - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-28-2012 02:37 PM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Quote: (09-26-2012 05:48 PM)Fisto Wrote:  

I disagree guys. I'm not saying he has to be dressed "slick" but dressing a little more refined than a backpacker would probably at least make him stand out in a positive way. Right now I see nothing that makes him look more than average. I'm not a fashionista but some cool shoes, skinny jeans, a v neck and a badass jacket would be just as comfortable and he'd look good enough to walk into most places during the day. Her body language does say "I don't want people who see this photo to think we're together".

Quote: (09-27-2012 12:27 PM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

I'm with you K-man,I'd rather bang three 7's then no 9's. However two points need mentioning:
Alex no doubt gets enough 7's back home.
He has said his intention was to find a 9 to take to Spain for a trip.

I respect that he's taken the harder road then targeting sevens which really are easy to get in Kiev. I'm bald,late thirties and knocked a tooth out a week before Kiev ( never had time to replace before trip ) and yet even in the centre of Kiev which is sex tourist central I number closed a couple of girls,kiss closed ( the one in the photos I posted ) and have her begging me to visit her in Odessa. So if I'm doing it with my bastardized Russian language skills then anyone who is white and from northern Europe will manage it. So good on him for going for the 9's.

On that point I would say that if you're intention was to grab a 9 to take to Spain at some point then Russia would have been a better option for you. Russians get visas easily most of the time as you'll know from the hordes that invade Spanish beaches every summer. And Moscow in my experience is easier then Kiev due in
part to the women being more liberal and westernized and there being less sex tourist stigmatization. A lot less.

As to your attire: don't take the comments to heart. I don't think people were hating on you personally because what you wore is probably fine for schlepping
about at home in. It's just that you are out trying to day game 9/10's but hindering your chances by being so sloppy. People were just surprised that you had not got that base covered. I don't necessarily agree with Greek in saying you have to dress like you are on business, however in a place where image is often more important then substance,you really should not be walking around in scruffy jeans,t-shirt and with a backpack on. That look whilst comfy,just screams tourist staying in a hostel. The image you are trying to give off is definitely not that if your aim is to bang up echelon women. I know you said you were caught unawares by the girl being ready early but still,by dressing like that you are missing possible opportunities. Personally I cannot stress enough how much image is important over there. I know full well you can dress like that and be a multi millionaire in the west,it's usual. But over there it doesn't work like that. How is a girl going to believe you'll take her to your penthouse on the beach in Spain if you dress like you're staying in a dormitory? Be overdressed rather then under dressed.
There again you're the one rotating models so it's not hurting you that badly!

Well we agree with the conversations being somewhat dull. I suppose that in part a lot of these girls have not travelled and are quite insular so it's hard to discuss certain topics or for then to have in depth opinions. However you said you brought a tear to the eye a couple of times of one girl when in comfort so you're getting on ok it seems.

Lastly,you are a hedge fund manager,have two places in Spain,have Saville Row hand made suits: why the fcuk are you staying in a place with a broken Soviet washing machine and intermittent electricity??!! Again,like your clothes,that's not going to entice some of these models into believing in your dream you are selling them that you would like to invite someone to Spain. No wonder you're not closing when they come back to yours. Those places are fine for me because I'm only bringing average girls back but you're ambitions are loftier then mine and an aspiring model in Kiev has a lot of local choice. Therefore get a pimped apartment next time,not ridiculously flash but something in a new build with mod cons at least.

I think you're doing very well for yourself,I doff my cap to your efforts. However I think your failure to close these models is because you've got a few chinks in your armor. Dress better and live in a better place and with the exception of language you will have all bases covered.

Good luck!

Just catching up on the Kiev thread and replying more or less in the order I see them.

Need to clear up some major misconceptions developing because its painting a wrong picture of me that makes me look like a troll, which is the last thing I wanted.

1) I am not G manifesto's long lost brother. I am not a multi millionaire and never said I was. I work in the hedge fund industry in a good technology position for a successful fund. I earn a good salary and my family is moderately wealthy. At 32 I am better off than most guys my age. Yes I could afford to buy a very modest apartment or two in Kiev but that kind of cash won't even get you into a private bank. All this is irrelevant to this Kiev thread because I am spending as little cash as possible and only mention I live in my flat on the mediteranean coast as a DHV on a D2/D3. And I think that is fair within the rules of game as its part of my value proposition.

I am sure there are several dudes on this board rocking more net worth than me.

2) I am not dating a harem of top models in Kiev. Please reread my posts as this does me a disservice - I am slogging it through a small number of higher quality girls because thats why I come to Kiev, but they are normal girls with normal lives. I posted photos so regulars could see what I'm dealing with and that i'm not an idiot braggart. My interest was in tactics specific to laying >8s in FSU capitals.

Truth be told I started this thread primarily for tips on the hot Kiev girl's mentality. Why physical escalation is often so slow...are they super traditional? do they expect expensive gifts...are the hottest ones plate spinning with various rich dudes to see which plate they take home... flowers? Chocolates? Do I go full beta on them? Do I go confident beta? Should I go alpha dominant russian boyfriend on them... So many questions.

I am dating 2 or 3 hotties and a couple others that are 7-8. Nothing amazing for two weeks in a city and knowing what you're doing. Pretty sure that Roosh was rocking similar quality and probably had a better close rate by concentrating on nightgame

Kiev is very nicely set up for a smooth British guy with BBC accent, who can splash cash as needed, expertly pipelines and has great attraction/comfort game. I spent over 40 hours pipelining - I doubt many here would put that investment in. Truth is my closing rate is disappointing because these girls need at least 4 dates and careful work in my opinion to get in the sack. More on this in the final update.

Point is the reason at my age (32) I have good disposable income IS EXACTLY BECAUSE I rent old soviet flats (albeit city center) and eat at Hazata Puta every day (student type buffet place in Kiev). The biggest cheap skates I have eaten with are some of the top Hedgies in London.

To give you some idea of rental costs in Kiev- My flat has cost me 390 euros after serious negotiation for 2 week stay. Nearly every other flat in the area is over 600 euros per 2 weeks. This is a basic shitty studio flat. Many of the flats being rented here are shithole compared to what we are used to in the west. I do not even have a wardrobe here, I hang everything on the coat stand. Pimped apartments in the center are going for 1200 + euros every 2 weeks, I won't drop that money for an apartment in which I only sleep and bang.

KIEV IS EXPENSIVE. Unbelievably so. My new pair of skinny jeans from zara (down two sizes, thanks kiev) were almost 3 times the cost in Spain. Many things except the staples are more expensive in Kiev than in Europe and the luxuries are far more expensive.

Totally agree on the clothes front - From losing so much weight here from skipping meals running around like a headless chicken chasing numbers and dates in the center, most of my clothes are too loose now. Luckily my date uniform was always tight and now fits great (tailored jacket, pocket square, tailored trousers and shirt, designer loafers).

When I walk in the street at night in my date uniform, I am convinced I will be mugged. I have seen literally no Kiev dudes dressed like me. Then again I don't frequent Kiev's few private gentlemen clubs. Again its all about learning from your errors and calibrating for the next visit.

Bravo, I think you are doing good. I am slim/athletic built and i had 2 order 2 portions of everything t o be full. Hazata Puta is great chea p food. The big cafeteria palce near or use t o be near opera house is a great pick-up location. That place is always full of girls and often you need to sit at someones table since place is packed. I am sure you can get digits out of that place. i find loafers to be a horrible choice in Ukraine. Soles are too thin and your feet will hurt. I like wing tips or half tips, women globally tend to love wing tips ,they good with suit s and also with jeans and a jacket. Guys use to always wear black/grey suits and you could blend in. You should buy some yogurt, cheese and cold cut meat to keep in your flat to munch on. its hard to focus when starving. I was starving for 2 years straight ,LOL. The expensive apt rents is why I personally if in the game would avoid Kiev. You could spend 2k o none and still will not impress the 9's and 10's. Alot of rich guys have really pimped out flats. I am talking tacky stuff ,like fish tank covering the whole ceiling ,etc. I saw a bunch of those apts. My flat I own I bought from a guy who was rich but lost his fortune,very common story .He ran cigarettes to and from Moldova. He installed a steel door that ca n withstand grenades being chucked at it and eve nhad the electrician install a secret electricity cable that is a gov't line giving me juice. I first lived across the street from Obrien's then moved t o a bigger better flat near Artema street. Its actually a great area,near USembassy. Alot of girls walk by and tram 5 mins to main street. Most important the 2 best clubs at the time were close. Next trip maybe consider a bit off mai n street.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-28-2012

I agree that Kiev is very expensive regarding imported items.The only cheap things are Ukrainian borsh,Gorilka and the famous Ukrainian champagne Odessa a perfect combo if you want to secure quality girls.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - stoney - 09-28-2012

this thread is mind boggling.

+1 to all contributors

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-28-2012

"The big cafeteria palce near or use t obe near opera house is a great pick-up location. That place is always full of girls and often you need to sit at someones table since palce is packed. I am sure you can get digits out of that place."

Thanks Jim, now thats what I call value added - will be eating there tomorrow to test.

"Turkish guys do well in Ukraine."

DISAGREE COMPLETELY. Goes completely against what I am seeing on the ground, what my ex girlfriend and her friends are saying (I should mention I have an 8.5 ukrainian ex here in Kiev that I still booty call. Met her in Spain) and what Roosh experienced and what Wolf backed up anecdotally. If you are dark skinned or very tanned or in any way turkish or Arab looking, do not come to Kiev (probably don't come to Ukraine). Frankly if you don't look Northern European (include germany, britain, most of anglo americans, dutch, scands etc) go elsewhere. More on this in conclusions.

Wolf and I firmly believe Roosh had such a poor ROI in Kharkov at least mainly because of his arabic/turkish appearance. Lack of Russian in a provincial city didn't help either as well as lack of extensive social pipelining as I did pre arrival. Note I said social pipelining not bang pipelining. I'm sure Rooshey will comment on this himself.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - jimukr104 - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-28-2012 04:01 PM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

"The big cafeteria palce near or use t obe near opera house is a great pick-up location. That place is always full of girls and often you need to sit at someones table since palce is packed. I am sure you can get digits out of that place."

Thanks Jim, now thats what I call value added - will be eating there tomorrow to test.

"Turkish guys do well in Ukraine."

DISAGREE COMPLETELY. Goes completely against what I am seeing on the ground, what my ex girlfriend and her friends are saying (I should mention I have an 8.5 ukrainian ex here in Kiev that I still booty call. Met her in Spain) and what Roosh experienced and what Wolf backed up anecdotally. If you are dark skinned or very tanned or in any way turkish or Arab looking, do not come to Kiev (probably don't come to Ukraine). Frankly if you don't look Northern European (include germany, britain, most of anglo americans, dutch, scands etc) go elsewhere. More on this in conclusions.

Wolf and I firmly believe Roosh had such a poor ROI in Kharkov at least mainly because of his arabic/turkish appearance. Lack of Russian in a provincial city didn't help either as well as lack of extensive social pipelining as I did pre arrival. Note I said social pipelining not bang pipelining. I'm sure Rooshey will comment on this himself.

okkk, I look like i can be Russian( I AM HALF) , A dark hair dark eyed one. I am pale since I keep out of the sun, however I ca n also look Italian, etc and I TAN easily. The girls use to chase me saying i look like young John travolta from Grease. He was considered hot there. They loved Enrique Iglesias. I am sure Travolta is considered a white guy. A Brooklyn italian is considered white last I LOOKED. However some Turks actually look white, they even often have light eyes. I already told you most girls say they do not like them. But alot of Turks win thme with there persistance .Will they beat guys with game? NO. However they can easily beat the white sex tourists, clueless guys who do not have game. Their Russian language helps. i believe Timmy is part Turkish,not sure ,he kills in Lugansk fro m what I hear. You got to stop listening t o everything Ukrainian girls tell you. As I said emotions rule. You can't compare yourself t o the gameless guys you see hitting on every chick on the main drag.
In BANG Ukraine rule number 1 has to be do not listen or take seriously anything that comes out of girls mouths. Often girls say they do not smoke. I see thme smoking. They say they do not drink, i see them drinking. They have a tendency to tell you things that you may want to hear. I was in law enforcement , got assigned to a detail that kept me on the beach whole summer in an area that was mostly Russian. I got eye fucked for months. met a few girls I dated. Anyhow, I would say my favorite food was chicken. Guess what Marina told me? Her favorite food was chicken. OK, I asked her what her favorite movie was? Guess? Police Academy. I almost coughed the word BULLSHIT. Ok , her sister , who like me also said same thing. Months later i dated a 19 year old named Anna, 3-4 years i n the country. Guess her favorite movie? When these girls get close t oyou and want you they will sweet talk you as if you are a god. Remember, these aren't American bitches ,they are not competing with us. I bet they tell German guys when they date them that they love German language and they probably convince themselves they do. You say you watch guys and girls in clubs? Well unless Ukrainian guys have grown a vagina you will see exactly how you need to be t o get them. They rarely say no if guy keeps pushing. Its more like a maybe , which can be turned int o a yes. I ca not tel lyou how to behave you have your own FORTE, and we respect that . If Kiev really has changed soo much i am glad i do not live there anymore . i think if I get divorce I would go to DUKES city.
i also as mentioned have an issue with advice from real Ukrainian guys(Wolverine exception) as i have mentioned before. They know how to approach girls ,close them and bang them. However there own insecurity when they compare themselves to foreighners tends t ocloud there outlook. They think all thier girls want to leave, they think we are rich so we can steal thier women ,blah blah blah. Its become a national excuse for the guys to not work hard and drink and play video games all day while women work hard.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - iknowexactly - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-28-2012 03:33 PM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Quick word on Wolverine who I met in Kiev a day ago - legit RVFer, nice bloke,

Short Kiev anecdote: Never invite another tiger to your dinner.

Legit dude, superb alpha unreactive frame (I'm always absorbing elements to work on from other players) and enjoyed meeting him.

Second you on gaming with a fluent <whatever local language is> speaker.

I had a scenario that worked like that-- I went with an American who had been living in Russia for several years and had good Russian. We were in a Ukrainian pizza place. He was a fat Aspie, but a bright guy. Here's how I broke it down.

I open girl, she's interested, but as we speak my weak <local language> and her weak English make us both a bit anxious.

HERE COMES FLUENT SPEAKER AMOG--

He starts up, all her problems are solved, she speaks fluently with him and you are all of a sudden a fucking doorknob. She wants to keep talking with him even if he's less attractive because it relieves the tension YOU built up by approaching.

Oops. There is no way to recover because now BOTH you and the girls' attempts to speak the others' language appear even WORSE after she's been chattering in her native one. Lose.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - iknowexactly - 09-28-2012

Quote:Quote:

I met a girl who was learning Chineese here in Kharkiv. I got the impression she was doing it mainly for work opportunties. I get the impression girls here would love to go to America or Western Europe but they feel like it's unrealistic to get a job there. They understand that getting a visa is very difficult.

I talked pretty extensively with some girls who had done "work abroad" programs in the USA.

I think they essentially are chances to work in a restaurant in a tourist area in America, say in a beach area or something like that.

They get ONE, (1) , chance to do it for three months ONE year as college students.

But at least two told me that it is VERY VERY hard to get back here (USA) again later once you are out of college. You have to have someone in the USA to sponsor you like family or a fiancee.

Again. two different unrelated girls told me the same thing.

One said "It's possible [to get to America outside of fiancee visa] but very, VERY hard. "

The thing I was thinking about was that few 19-21 year olds are mercenary and daring enough to fuck their way into a real romance with the guy proposing at their age in their short three months in the USA on their working visa.

(The exceptions would be true 9's who are sexy sluts and can nail a very rich and worldly guy. )

So they get a taste of what it's like in Consumerland, but not a chance to stay.

And maybe the CHinese and Turkish are attempts to land a more realistic route to adventure than to dream of America.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - iknowexactly - 09-28-2012

Quote: (09-28-2012 02:21 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

Between love and romance and hard cold cash most FSU women well prefer the latter.

Well, 60% for example is "most" , and leaves a lot of other ones for us foolish, soft-hearted guys that like keeping girls around for more than three hours, or maybe three days. Don't know if that's what you meant. Some of the girls I spent time with made clear efforts to make dates very inexpensive.

One also has to take into account the ones that we meet. There's a huge selection process involved there which skews all of our viewpoints.

A club chick teetering on high heels and looking real mercenary will hardly get a second look from me, no matter how good looking.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - The Fantasist - 09-29-2012

Quote: (09-28-2012 10:28 PM)iknowexactly Wrote:  

Quote: (09-28-2012 03:33 PM)BigAlexBoss Wrote:  

Quick word on Wolverine who I met in Kiev a day ago - legit RVFer, nice bloke,

Short Kiev anecdote: Never invite another tiger to your dinner.

Legit dude, superb alpha unreactive frame (I'm always absorbing elements to work on from other players) and enjoyed meeting him.

Second you on gaming with a fluent <whatever local language is> speaker.

I had a scenario that worked like that-- I went with an American who had been living in Russia for several years and had good Russian. We were in a Ukrainian pizza place. He was a fat Aspie, but a bright guy. Here's how I broke it down.

I open girl, she's interested, but as we speak my weak <local language> and her
weak English make us both a bit anxious.

HERE COMES FLUENT SPEAKER AMOG--

He starts up, all her problems are solved, she speaks fluently with him and you are all of a sudden a fucking doorknob. She wants to keep talking with him even if
he's less attractive because it relieves the tension YOU built up by approaching.

Oops. There is no way to recover because now BOTH you and the girls' attempts to speak the others' language appear even WORSE after she's been chattering in her native one. Lose.

Interesting debate.

Both your problems were not down to your wings being more fluent then you,that is actually a very useful wing to have. Your problems were you both invited guys who transgressed the rules ( Wolverine is a cool guy so I'm sure it was absolutely inadvertent - although he did tell me that he number closed your girl when you went to the toilet ) Your wing's job is all about helping you get laid as you know,and if he is fluent then he can do that easier by DHV'ing YOU in her language. That's a powerful tool. The problem is obviously that its easy for the girl to end up inadvertantly building comfort with him instead of you. Therefore your wing must keep the conversation in English as much as possible,just chipping in with Russian when it is necessary.

I've been there in China. On a date with a girl in a restaurant,a fellow teacher I knew with good mandarin skills came in and I waived him over. Result is I spend the next hour sitting there like a tool whilst I'm ignored. Lesson learnt.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-29-2012

For example in a club like D'Lux if you compete against a Turk,an Arab and a Scandinavian for the same girl the Scandinavian has by far the best chances to outgame you.The Arab is hopeless and the Turk tries to use violence(the method of turkish circle I have described.They just get the girls into a circle which their friends guard from every angle).
This is actually part of the problem that in most cases you do not compete against one Turk(like against one American who prefer to go solo) but against a group of 10-15 Turks who work in team.Of course the fearless Balkan power individual has no problem to challenge and penetrate their defenses but the western guys are usually scared by the masses of Turks(you will hear them making comments like I saw dozens of Turks in the club,I was disappointed,this is not my kind of venue etc).
For any Turk a Westerner is an easy prey when they see them solo in EE,they know they can play them along on will since their group gives them power.(muslims always have this cooperation which seems peculiar to us).

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-29-2012

I was just waiting on this thread for the mention of ..."fearless Balkan power challenging and penetrating their defences..." my day is complete

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - Greek kamaki - 09-29-2012

For sure the Turks try to impose dominance in some of the clubs and the conflicts can escalate.However da boss in slavic lands is usually the Russian not the Turk so only when the Russian is absent the rest can play.Russians are completely different from Turks in every aspect.

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KIEV Trip report - confusing top shelf FSU babes - BigAlexBoss - 09-29-2012

Kamaki is a gem. He is the GBFM of RVF. Kamaki would you have a problem posting in this thread a photo of the type of clothes you would daygame kreshatic with so we can get an idea? If you use your own photo, you should pixelate it as I did.

Here is Miss (Southern Ukrainian state I won't mention for discretion sake) runner up (very early twenties) I had on my bed down to dress half off and panties on a D2. Daygame stop with strong hook and instadate to cafe.

These kievian beauties are the definition of logical sex. They switch it off exactly at the point they feel they have given you enough for that evening. You could have been an LMR God (and I know every trick in the LMR book) and you wouldn't have got sex on that D2. She is an 8 for me but I like the strong model facial features which won't be everyone's cup of tea. 181 cm, banging body, dressed in knee length satin coctail dress and 12 cm heels for me. I had a hardon the moment I arrived in the lounge for the D2.

My mate Krauser (KRAUSERPUA) thinks she looks like a man in a wig and is a 7, so tastes differ LOL. Lovely girl, unbelievably feminine and her voice alone (sweet and girlish) gives me a raging boner - my points scale actually blends looks with femininity/submissiveness, that is so important to me. Goes on the girlfriend pile.

Photos for 12 hours - if you're slow, bad luck - my overall favourite girl in Kiev and she will find herself soon the lucky recipient of an all expenses paid holiday on the Spanish coast.










If you put in the hard work, this should be the level of girls you are working here in Ukraine. She would be an almost cert D3 bang if she hadn't gone to see the family for the weekend.

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